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Gillibrand Inches Leftward, Now Supports Gay Marriage

Here's another interesting wrinkle from Rep. Kirsten Gillibrand's (D-NY) imminent promotion to the Senate: She appears to have switched her position on gay marriage from a standard "safe" Democratic stance, to now being a full supporter.

Empire State Pride Agenda has put out a press release saying that Gillibrand has spoken to them, and they are glad to say that New York will have its first Senator who endorses full marriage equality. This is a big change for Gillibrand, who previously had a conventional Democratic position of endorsing civil unions and non-discrimination laws, but not being for gay marriage.

To be sure, Gillibrand's voting record on gay rights was not anything that could be called bad. There weren't too many votes on gay issues in the last two years, but she did vote for the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, as well as the hate crimes bill.

Gillibrand's House district voted twice for George W. Bush, then narrowly flipped to Barack Obama in 2008. So one can see why Gillibrand was less than willing to support gay marriage. But if we're looking at this from the assumption of political opportunism, this in turn gives us a new realization: We are now in a world in which endorsing gay marriage can actually be a politically beneficial choice in a statewide setting.


38 Comments

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Ha, so much for voting for what you believe in.

This is why I couldn't be in politics, I couldn't take a position I didn't believe in just because it was a better fit for my constituency, or because taking a different position was more politically expedient.

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unbelievable! damned if you do, damned if you don't. You guys are impossible.

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I'm not damning me for "switching" her position, I'm just saying it makes anything they say they believe hard to believe, and that I wouldn't be able to play that game.

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The alternative to this political expediency would have been to have a Republican in that seat.

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The point is that it is just a bit ridiculous that it is like all of the sudden she "now supports gay marriage", as if she didn't before (or maybe she never did and it putting on a new show for the whole state). It obviously isn't as if her beliefs have changed, its just her public beliefs that have changed. One way or another she was lying to her constituents before, or she is lying now.

Would I rather have that than a Republican? Certainly.

I just think politics is a dishonest business, one that it is very hard to get anywhere in if you stick to your convictions.

Hell, I suspect Obama has been playing this very same game with his position of marriage equality:

http://www.thepersonalispolitical.com/2009/01/is-obama-closet-equality-supporter.html

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French king Henri IV said that Paris is worth going to mass. In other words, being king was worth the price of converting from Protestantism to Catholicism.

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I should probably say, "Having Paris is worth going to mass." Quote was, I believe, "Paris vaut un messe." Or une messe.

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Good for her. If being moved up to the Senate is what it took for her to get rid of a bit of prejudice (for political reasons or whatever) then good for her. That means there will be one less neanderthal voting in the Senate. (now if only Inhofe and McConnell would resign....)

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Whatever. The real loser here is Patterson. If he isn't in trouble for his upcoming race, he will be

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You said it. He handled this in a very bizarre manner.

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I'm not so sure he handled it that badly. He waited until there was actually a seat to fill -- when HRC was confirmed as SOS and resigned the seat -- then filled it. Did he say he favored one, then another? I don't think so. He seems to have picked someone who might him upstate if he runs for election and who might be able to survive 2010 and 2012 elections. Sometimes less is more. He let the balloons float; he let the polls run; and when the time came, he made his pick.

How am I wrong?

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I don't think Paterson handled it particularly badly --- until yesterday. And I think Caroline's sudden about-face probably put him in a quandary. BUT between not being able to stop his people from being nasty, nasty ugly about Caroline and then making this dumb, dumb choice, he's lost a LOT of support ... even here in upstate NY (and he certainly hasn't gained any in the City). If Kirsten Gillibrand can survive 2010, let alone 2010 and 2012, I'm going to have to find a hat to eat. The view I'm hearing around State government offices is "Palin with better grammar."

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Patterson handled this like a boob. As for his "nasty" staff, the media is at once clueless, and too lazy to do its job -- Patterson, like Spitzer, surrounds himself with simpletons who also happen to be genuine s-o-bs. As for Gillibrand: any thought that she won't hold on to the Senate seat is delusional or wishful thinking. She beat one of the all-time kings of back-alley brawling in '06 (granted, with a lot of help from him); raised a TON of cash for her '08 run; and kicked the stuffing out of the GOP's multi-millionaire nominee. Doing all that in a district originally rigged to guarantee GOP control in perpetuity took skill and savvy. She will be around for a while.

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I'm not so sure he handled it that badly. He waited until there was actually a seat to fill -- when HRC was confirmed as SOS and resigned the seat -- then filled it. Did he say he favored one, then another? I don't think so. He seems to have picked someone who might him upstate if he runs for election and who might be able to survive 2010 and 2012 elections. Sometimes less is more. He let the balloons float; he let the polls run; and when the time came, he made his pick.

How am I wrong?

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I'm really not going to complain here. The more support in the Senate for gay marriage, the better.

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Nimble, I'll give her that. The sharks are already splashing about looking for a primary fight -- she's rushing to dull those carnivores.

She can also be outsmarted by a liberal-ish Mr. Nice Guy Republican candidate if she does get nominated, and she needs to pre-empt all that stuff by reassuing those prickly Hillary voters that she's their gal. She's going to be called a Republican clone/Sweeney II, and she's got to undermine those narratives.

I'd look for her 100% rating by NRA to shift as part of this. You can rightly call it cynical, but I don't see how she's got much choice if she wants to hold this seat. She must have discussed all this to some extent with that madcap Paterson, who's ass is also on the line in 2010 as we know.

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Being from Western New York I don't know much about Ms. Gillibrand however, if she plans to keep the seat beyond 2010 I think we'll see her move further left...and that's not a bad thing.

She has the support of Clinton and Schumer and that too will help her going forward and I've also read that she was recruited by Rahm Emanuel.

All in all a solid choice it looks like.

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Interesting. How do you know she has the support of Clinton and Schumer, or are you referring to her candidacy for the House in 2006?

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Hey, does this mean we're all spared the Full Metal Aravosis Freakout? I'm glad to have back that week of huffy outrage and foot-stomping I would have lost.

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Swiveling positions are no better than wrong ones. This is a bad selection. Probably losing a HR seat, certainly drawing a major primary fight, and likely weakening Paterson's election chances.

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Good news! I can swallow this pick a little easier now. I see this as coming down to constituents, before in a Republican leaning district she was representing her constituents who were largely against gay marriage. Now that she represents the whole state (and very liberal NYC)now she is honoring her new, large constituency and will vote for gay marriage (if it ever comes to that). Completely understandable imho.

It's all about keeping the public trust- and that comes down to who your constituents are and representing them and their views.

Of course, that's also politically smart.

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Don't need those upstate yocals anymore?

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Anybody know what the NYC-upstate vote numbers are?

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Wow what great news! I give conservative district Democrats a lot of room to wiggle to hold those districts and keep the Democrats in power in DC. If you do not understand how to compromise to reach a larger goal you are eliminated from power and nothing gets done. I actually assume Clinton and Obama really have nothing against Gay Marriage either but do not want to loose an election over it. As we noticed in California, this issue is moving our way but one step at a time. I am actually thrilled that the new Senator from New York is willing to get ahead of the curve on this. Perhaps New York is going to be the next state to legalize Gay Marriage. Good!

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LeftE --- I am from NY - her district, in fact, and it's far from a solid choice. Her district (which she won by a fluke - self-desctructing incumbent -the first time and on Obama's coattails the second) will go back to being safely Republican, and we'll have a Senator who masquerades as a weather vane (or vice versa - maybe it's a weather vane masquerading as a Senator). And in 2010 a primary free-for-all that may result in another D'Amato!

Ironically, the only reason she was ever able to run for anything in the first place, to get any nominations was ........ nepotism! Heavy-duty, both sides of her family.

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Hey as long as she's still for armor piercing ammo and cop killer bullets. Those are necessary for pest control out here in the rural counties.

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Don't know how many of you here are from New York and no one I know thinks he handled it badly. It was the Kennedy team that was all over the map.Come on.. She says she's withdrawing and a few hours later she changed her mind?

No one wanted her here. The true story will come out and take it from me, she's going to look much worse.

If any of you here had been paying attention to New York State political blogs in the last two months, you could see the Gillibrand pick coming a mile away. Even the NPR political blogger chose her back in January.

Paterson sounded great today and so did Gillibrand. Remember, she's Hillary's protege and is a powerhouse fundraiser.

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I mean, the NPR blogger picked Gillibrand way back in early December.

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I wonder how capricious this stance is. I would bet that increasing local political activism of the numerous upscale gays in and around Dutchess and Columbia Counties has helped get her elected in the first place (she was one of the 3 NY Dem candidates elected as the result of the 2006 "Take back the House" campaign); also bear in mind that such folks (even the many weekenders) have deep pockets for Dem candidates.

Let's not self-destruct here and start thinking of 3rd party candidates. Any Dem active in upstate NY politics knows how fine a line we have had to tread to bring local moderates on board in pursuit of our larger goals. Since the GOP carved out and gerrymandered all the liberal academic hotspots upstate into one skinny crooked snake of a district (represented by Maurice Hinchey) Dems have been painstakingly eroding GOP power even where it seems unlikely. It's not pretty or easy but it's happening.

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What the hell is that sleaze Alphonse D'Amato doing on the stage, up front yet?

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A lot of progressives are attacking Kirsten Gillibrand and saying she is too conservative. Let's take a look at Gillibrand's overall voting record, which is what really matters in this situation. Here are her 2008 scores from several liberal interest groups:

100%-NARAL/Pro-Choice America
100%-American Civil Liberties Union
95%-Americans for Democratic Action'
100%-Children's Defense Fund
95%-League of Conservation Voters
96%-NAACP
89%-SEIU
96%-Mean score of those groups

In fact, Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-California) had a lower average score (93%) than Gillibrand does. And Woolsey is the co-chair of the House Progressive Caucus!

I wouldn't exactly call someone with Gillibrand's numbers a conservative...

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But, PT, reading one article in the Village Voice turns us all from ignorant to experts, so Everyone Knows she's terrible, terrible! Hulk smash! Hulk smash! THIS IS SPARTA!

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Very intelligent and mature response...

If that's all you have to say about my post, then I think I made a pretty good point.

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Blue Dogs never vote for what they believe in. They vote for what they believe is "in".

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According to Wikipedia (I know, it's not very reliable) she graduated Dartmouth magna cum laude, from UCLA law school, and clerked for a judge on the 2nd circuit court of appeals (usually gigs for top or near top graduates). Palin with better grammar? I think not.

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Just sayin' what I'm hearing -- and I don't think it was meant to imply she wasn't intelligent (she is, Palin isn't) but more lack of achivement or steady principles and at least *apparent* willingness to be shaped and molded. (Palin had that appearance also, although it turned out not to be the case.) Maybe Gillibrand will surprise folks, but she is not perceived locally has having much 'heft' or consistent goals --- other than to follow in family footsteps and win.

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Interesting. I've always wondered what the balance should be between leadership, representation of your constituency, and pure political survival.

So, while some are bashing her for changing positions, a valid argument is that her constituency changed, and she needs to represent the majority of her constituents on each issue.

On the other hand, there is the moral obligation to do what is right... whatever that may mean to her.

And then again, there is the need to stay alive politically in order to do anything at all.

This is the facinating tension of a politician's life. We all know deep inside that they just want to lead. Like everyone else in the world, they think they're right, and they want to be in charge, and run the show, and make things happen the way it 'should' be. But, then there's the problem of representative government, and being tossed out of office if you stray too far from the public's will. So, they compromise, and equivocate, triangulate and muddy the water with mixed messages and doublespeak. They flip-flop on issues when it becomes convenient. They become the opposite of leaders, trading risk and leadership for security and a stage to perform on. (And those are just the benign politicians. I'm not talking about the Rovian types who manipulte, lie and cheat.)

And, on our end, we want both leadership and representation. But, we only want leaders if they lead on our terms. Again, representation wins out over leadership. And, stepping back, this is probably a good thing, and one of the aims of a democratic system.

So, while we may laugh a little at the politician who changes their position so easily, I don't understand the anger. This is exactly the way the system is designed. We shouldn't be surprised; this shift is entirely predictable and commonplace in politics. As long as she's not employing Rovian tactics, I'm not concerned.

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Being from Western New York I don't know much about Ms. Gillibrand however, if she plans to keep the seat beyond 2010 I think we'll see her move further left...and that's not a bad thing.

She has the support of Clinton and Schumer and that too will help her going forward and I've also read that she was recruited by Rahm Emanuel.

All in all a solid choice it looks like.

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