Coleman Lawyer: Maybe The Franken-Voter Was Mentally Disabled?
We've now found a case of lead Coleman lawyer Joe Friedberg actually being concerned about ballot fraud, and wanting to keep a vote out as a result -- so much so that he'll speculate about a Franken-voter being mentally disabled.
Really. No joke.
In court just now, lead Franken lawyer Marc Elias went over a rejected ballot envelope for which he said a power of attorney had been granted by a disabled voter, to allow a family member to fill it out. The issue was that the mark made to authorize the family member was not a signature or a conventional "X", but was instead an amorphous scribble. Elias and Goodhue County elections official Carolyn Holmsted spent some time hashing it out.
Then Friedberg took issue with this whole idea of the power of attorney to fill out a ballot, which is a specifically allowed clause in Minnesota law for disabled voters.
"And normally, people give powers of attorney because they're incompetent, mentally disabled," Friedberg began, before he was interrupted by a very loud objection from the Franken side.
"Your honor, this door was opened," Friedberg replied.
The judges sustained the objection as to how Friedberg was phrasing this, but allowed him to continue with the line of inquiry.
Friedberg then discussed how if the power of attorney was granted because the voter was mentally incompetent, then obviously the ballot is invalid -- but if it's because of a physical disability, it's valid. The problem, Friedberg offered, is that we don't know.
Friedberg debated the idea of delegating authority to fill out a ballot. "I can't give my ability to decide who to vote for to someone else, can I?" he said, before the Franken camp successfully objected.
He then rephrased: "To be more specific, John Clarence Albert can't give his decision-making process in relation to who to vote for to anybody else, can he?" This, too, met a successful objection.
He tried again: "You have no idea whether John Albert even knows that someone even voted on his behalf, do you?" Friedberg said. After this was objected to, Friedberg simply asked whether Holmsted had ever seen a mark like this before -- she hadn't.
Let's take a trip down memory lane: Joe Friedberg once offered up the idea that someone had illegally signed and voted in two ballots for himself and his wife, but said that one of them should be counted. He also previously declared that he didn't care about the procedures to prevent ballot fraud.
Josh
Matt
Eric
Brian
huh?
February 20, 2009 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice try, Friedberg, but you didn't seriously think that you were going to get away with that, did you? That gurgling sound you hear is your case going down the drain.
February 20, 2009 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Stay classy Team Coleman.
February 20, 2009 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I used to respect Joe Freidberg. He actually has (had) a really good reputation, albeit in the area of criminal trials.
He is either stupid or being stupid on purpose and is just trying anything and everything.
February 20, 2009 5:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even if your only exposure to the law was watching old Perry Mason reruns you know that you can't assume facts not in evidence. It appears the judges are adopting a strategy of gradually hemming in Coleman's case to only reasonable claims. Since he has none, Friedberg is resisting, but it's a losing battle.
February 20, 2009 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
One of the great imponderables of life, is why Coleman continues with this charade. It's hard to see how can it be worth the damage to his reputation, such as it is.
February 20, 2009 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Coleman has no reputation among the electorate to damage. This stunt only increases his reputation amongst those in the wing-nut welfare set with whom he'll be working shortly.
February 20, 2009 5:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why? He's bought and paid for. Sheesh, the guy was once a Democrat. The neocons now own him.
February 20, 2009 6:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Each twist and turn takes time. Tic...Toc...Tic
February 20, 2009 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
But you know seeing three well writen reports here in one day makes it seem like it is moving along. Maybe if you write more it will end sooner.
February 20, 2009 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who needs a "reputation" when the RNC is delivering bags of money as long as he continues his suit?
February 20, 2009 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
As one of the folks with a "mental disability" this just pisses me off on one more level with these slimeballs.
The bastard was a user at Hofstra 40 years ago, and still is looking to get his face on TV and a sugar daddy's money in his pocket.
More info on Mental Disability and voting:
http://www.napas.org/issues/voting/2008elec/VoterGuide.pdf
I have to go and wash the puke out of my mouth.
February 20, 2009 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, it's official: Joe Friedberg is an immoral monster.
How did he know the signature wasn't a scribble because of a physical disability?
A dumbshit as well as an immoral monster. I don't think you can be a worse person than Joe Friedberg. Simply disgusting.
February 20, 2009 6:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
So does this open the door for the Franken team to argue that even if the vote does go in Coleman's favor, he couldn't assume his seat due to mental defect? Would Friedberg even object?
February 20, 2009 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, that argument clearly won't work.
Right here in the great state of MN the presence of Michele Bachmann in the House proves that mental incompetence is no barrier to serving in the United States Congress.
February 21, 2009 1:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bill a bull: ours.
February 20, 2009 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Coleman's team is simply trying to erode the general notion of validity of any and all votes. One can imagine them questioning how we know that any vote was legit -- maybe someone came to the polls and impersonated a voter. But such issues do not go to the issue of this election contest.
One can only hope that Franken will remind the Court of its narrow purpose.
February 20, 2009 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
This really is a shocking turn of events -- a line of questioning that marginalizes an entire segment of our society by reason of a disability. And it is based entirely on speculation about the voter's circumstances and mental state.
What Friedberg suggests is essentially that people who don't meet HIS or NORM COLEMAN'S standard are not entitled to the rights of citizens. When the last legal straw his side is grasping for is based on the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment, it's probably a good idea to respect the idea that everyone's vote should count.
February 20, 2009 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your honor, if it pleases the court, plaintiff contends that defendant is a poopyhead, has cooties, and smells funny.
February 20, 2009 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
hahahahah!!!! Coleman is a poopyhead!
Just look at him your honor! hahahah!
Objection sustained! hahahah!
February 21, 2009 8:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Forget all this -- I have an idea!
Palin/Coleman 2012! A REAL dream ticket!
February 20, 2009 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm still holding out for Bachmann/King.
February 21, 2009 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nah.
It's going to be Palin/Keyes.
The Repugs are convinced they need a "Magic Negro" on the ballot.
Plus, the two of them are so good at promoting death threats against their opposition and getting away with it!
The RePugs find honor in the despicable.
February 22, 2009 3:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yea, that Palin/Keyes ticket would be the ticket...after all, they both have already been beaten in elections by Obama....Go GOP (Grand Old Pipedream)
February 22, 2009 6:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
What scares me about this is that sometimes, sheer will power wins out. Norm has concentrated and focused his whole life on his political ambitions . . . he was so shook up after Jesse Ventura beat him for Governor that he appointed a trans-sexual as his Deputy Mayor in St. Paul (as if he were writing off the lunatic religious right & any future Republican ambitions.) But he recovered his balance when Karl Rove tapped him to run for US Senate against Paul Wellstone, who was thought to be easy to beat in 2002. So to everyone's surprise, Wellstone was leading in the pre-election polls . . . when his plane crashed. So Norm got to the Senate and at once began a national round of fund-raising and guest political appearances . . . still stoking his ambition. The 2008 Republican National Convention ended up where???---St. Paul, the city where Norm was once a popular and politically successful Mayor. Norm should have been a shoo-in for re-election, just like Susan Collins in Maine, last year ----although it developed that there wasn't room for him, or even for his GOP rival in Minnesota, Tim Pawlenty, on the national ticket. Norm was trying to say, "pick me for VP, and you'll get the electoral votes from Minnesota and Florida both; that's the way to win."
Now Norm really has his back to the wall, but that doesn't mean he's finished. For a precedent, read Robert Caro's book about how LBJ stole the 1948 Texas Democratic primary, "Means of Ascent."
LBJ should have been knocked out numerous times, but his will to prevail led him to find a way to lie, cheat, and steal until he was in the end sworn in to the U.S. Senate. I never met LBJ, but I have met Norm, and he radiated more "vibes" of raw, sheer, ambition than anyone else I've encountered in almost 60 years of political kibitzing. As for Al Franken, he's not a politician at all, bless his heart, and if he ends up getting to the Senate, I will seriously consider not paying my dues to the Atheists' organization this year.
February 20, 2009 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
This makes me wonder who you've met in your 60 years of "political kibitzing."
I admit I've never met him, but in the interviews and TV spots I've seen he comes across as an oily, creepy slime-ball. Even his wife keeps her distance from him when they are photographed together. I understand they are together for convenience only. Are raw, sheer ambition necessarily qualities that make a winner? This guy doesn't come close to an LBJ from what I can see. LBJ may have been a liar, a cheat, and an opportuntist but at least he had something in mind that he wanted to accomplish. Norm just wants to be Senator. He has nuthin and people know that.
Sorry, I don't get the joke, if it is one:
What did you mean?
February 20, 2009 10:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is a late-70's SNL script, right? Actually, as absurd as it is, it's much more serious than one of those skits. Remember, Generalissimo Francisco Franco was already still dead whereas Coleman and his minions are doing everything they can to deny Minnesotans their duly elected representation.
February 20, 2009 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
The disabled vote all the time. Coleman is apparently attempting to argue that the voter is incompetent without a ruling of incompetency by a court which has addressed that question. The incompetent are often preclued from voting. Everyone scribbles the name. MD's are, of course, notorious here. But if a mentally disabled indvididual scribbles the names that is evidence of incompetency. That is how life is for the mentally disabled (major depression usually).
February 21, 2009 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
i say that norm coleman is sleazy. pretty much everybody else says he is sleazy too.
his bio will confirm that he is from new york, is a lawyer, and practices the jewish faith.
in the face of the facts, i am speechless.
February 21, 2009 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bad ojim.
There is nothing wrong with New York. Attorneys are important contributors to our society, some behaviors of some attorneys are reprehensible, but that is an awful broad brush to paint with.
The anti-semitic statement is horrendously disgusting. Franken is also Jewish, that must make him a slime too. Many of the freedoms you enjoy were won by the Jews, Irish, Germans, Russians, Spaniards, Danes, Morrocans, Netherlanders, Mexicans, Scots, Swedes, Africans, Koreans and English that make up my family. They came in every flavor of Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Animism, Judaism and atheism.
How appalling that you would even dare to write that here. Have you read, perhaps that Josh Marshall is Jewish, have you noticed how many other Jews write and comment on this site. You would not go to The Root and write "blacks are slime".
I puked in my mouth, a little bit, over Norm Coleman, but I just flooded the room with chunks over your slanderous shit-mouth and thinking.
This is hate speech. Period. Slime is to gracious a name for your ilk.
February 21, 2009 7:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
edwardhyde
being from minnesota, i do have a dog in this fight. can you explain to me how calling me names changes the facts? maybe just maybe you could have a word with him about this. apparently you ARE on the same team as it were.
were he catholic, i would wonder how many sexual abuse cases of altar boys he helped bury. as a sleazy lawyer, i still wonder.
hate speech? i tried to find the minnesota lutheran anti-defamation league. amazingly there does not appear to be one. maybe you should take lessons. complain about us all you want, i doubt if any of us will care enough to even reply. apparently, we do not have this insane persecution complex that some of you have. doesn't it make you tired? paranoia will destroy ya.
al franken is not trying to disenfranchise the voters of minnesota. nor is he a lawyer. i personally will be proud to have him represent my state.
February 21, 2009 11:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who are you calling "us?"
Your comments are completely uncalled for and boorish; and your explanation in which you claim that you would assume he buried young, abused children if he were catholic does nothing to help your absurd argument.
Norm Coleman has plenty of things to legitimately criticize him about; where he was born, his original profession, and his religion are not among them.
Get over yourself!
February 22, 2009 4:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, and you should have done what you claimed upstream:
It would have been a good idea to remain so.
February 22, 2009 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Being from Minnesota..."
Why does your profile say you're from Iowa?
February 22, 2009 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
still don't like the facts? whining about them does you no good.
February 22, 2009 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jimbo you repulsive slug,
"being from minnesota" - As CVille Dem asked, why does your profile say Iowa?
"apparently you ARE on the same team as it were." - I am on the same team having some similar ethnic origins. My Jewish background comes from both Sephardic and Ashkenazi roots - I don't know which ethnic group Coleman or Franken are from. But I am also on the same team as Fidel Castro on that basis, and the Bush family too. Though I do not share the same religious beliefs as any of these folks they are ethnically, so to speak, my people - as you probably are also.
"were he catholic, i would wonder how many sexual abuse cases of altar boys he helped bury." - For hell's sake are you a member of the Klan? We now have Jews and Catholics. Why don't you take the opportunity to insult my African heritage now. Here is your opening.
"hate speech? i tried to find the minnesota lutheran anti-defamation league. amazingly there does not appear to be one. maybe you should take lessons. complain about us all you want, i doubt if any of us will care enough to even reply. apparently, we do not have this insane persecution complex that some of you have. doesn't it make you tired? paranoia will destroy ya."
You often refer to your Lutheranism. I have living and dead relatives who are also Lutherans. As a matter of fact, I have had Lutheran family that almost certainly killed Jewish relatives during Lutheranism's almost 500 years. Unfortunately, they and other Christians succeeded in killing almost all of my wife's relatives in the 30's and 40's, perhaps you have heard of the Holocaust.
For all of his independence and reform, Luther was an anti-semitic stooge for Papal Christianity's deep-rooted anti-semitism. The Spanish Inquisition started in 1483, but only got into high gear in 1492. Luther became a Catholic Monk and Theology scholar in 1508, helping to justify this policy as a Catholic until 1546, when he went public with the 95 theses and became a "reformer".
In 1543 in The Jews and Their Lies, Luther proposed this eight point plan to eliminate the Jews.
"First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. ..."
"Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. ..."
"Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. ..."
"Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. ..."
"Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. ..."
"Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them. ... Such money should now be used in ... the following [way]... Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed [a certain amount]..."
"Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow... For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants."
"If we wish to wash our hands of the Jews' blasphemy and not share in their guilt, we have to part company with them. They must be driven from our country" and "we must drive them out like mad dogs."
Though many branches of Lutheranism have decried Luther's anti-semitism. Many others have not. Now is the time for you to make your choice. In which camp do you stand - with Luther, the Inquisition, Russian Pogroms, Nazism, the Holocaust and Stalinism, or with the tolerant versions of Christianity and the modern world? Everyone on TPM is waiting with baited breath to hear if you dare to say where you truly stand.
"al franken is not trying to disenfranchise the voters of minnesota. nor is he a lawyer. i personally will be proud to have him represent my state." - This makes absolutely no sense, he is a Jew, and thus "sleazy" in your own words.
By the way, back to your profile. If you are being honest about your party affiliation, I believe it should be "Democratic". "Democrat" is a pejorative used by Republicans. Depending upon your answer to the questions about the Klan and where you stand on anti-semitism, you made need to add Luther Jr., or Hitler Jr., or dumbass, or ... . Oh, it would be great if you reattached the shift key to your computer - it bugs the hell out of me.
Get out of the parts room man, the asbestos in the brake linings is rotting your brain.
February 22, 2009 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
wow. your whining continues to annoy. your feeble attempts to bully me are not effective.
your name calling and copy and paste skills are breathtaking.(golf clap) your literacy and reasoning skills on the other hand....
i am from edina minnesota. now i live in iowa. i went to college in connecticut. while there i was exposed to 'gods chosen ones' as they call themselves. they were quite interesting to say the least.
if i am to point out that people are jewish, or catholic, or whatever, i do believe that those are the facts. and i will continue to do so. and if you have no respect for the facts, why should anybody care what you think? i certainly do not.
your persecution complex is rather ridiculous. and if the jews have been persecuted for several thousand years, maybe that is because bullies usually get run out of town.
February 22, 2009 11:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
And you are an ass. You did not simply "point out" that someone was jewish or catholic; you spouted hate speech about both religions. If you had been here for any time you would know that I don't believe in any of them, but I do believe it is ignorant and destructive to label anyone with stereotypes such as you have done.
For example, I don't have to know what group, if any you belong to. Your anger and hatred jump out of the page all by themselves. I hope you find some peace, but it won't be where you're looking at the moment.
February 23, 2009 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
ojim,
Minnesota is now longer your state.
I am not whining about anything. I am not personally persecuted or discriminated against on any significant level because of my religious or ethnic background. I have experienced significant persecution and discrimination, up to and including physical violence, for my political beliefs, nationality, and as a person with a disability. But, I do not whine.
Questions:
Where you born into a Lutheran family, even if they were not regular practitioners, or did you freely choose Lutheranism as an adult? If you did not choose as an adult, you have simply accepted and religio/ethnic construct and are no different than those of us who celebrate Jewish culture and tradition.
Some Lutherans, like some Jews, believe they are God's chosen people. Are you one of these? If so, it seems that you are having a religious argument, in which case your lack or reasoning or logic becomes justifiable, but only as religious zeal, bigotry and a commitment to evangelize and convert.
I am not bullying you. I have not suggested that you do not write, I have not suggested that you have no right to participate, I have not even called you harsh names - I did mention that you have a "shit-mouth and thinking", that your "ilk"is "slime", asked if you were a "member of the Klan", and asked you to identify which tradition you belong to, all of which are standard comment language. I also grouped myself with your ethnic background, shared my own Lutheran background, and gave good-natured jibes with "bad ojim", "ojim you ignorant slug", your typing in lowercase, and asbestos damage to the brain - these were honestly intended in a good-natured way. If you took the asbestos/parts room remark as a slight against you, I truly apologize - I can see in retrospect how that may have come across as a class insult. Coming from a hardcore working-class background, and having worked in the part business myself I did not mean it negatively.
It does seem that you may feel a bit persecuted, or at least have had bad experiences with at least Jews and Catholics. It would be great if you could share that with us.
In the spirit of full disclosure, I am a non-theist, freely chosen as an adult.
February 23, 2009 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Norm Coleman better be careful talking about the mentally disabled. Someone may just hand him a mirror.
February 21, 2009 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
When I was a poll watcher in my small town, a family came in each election with a downs syndrome adult. One of the family members went into the voting booth and helped pull the levers.
No one ever had a problem with that. I figured he was voting what ever his family wanted to vote, but what's the big deal? One vote, and he feels he's a member of society.
Let's face it, a lot of young people vote the party their family votes for.
Not being senator is not the end of the world. Having 59 Democrats in the Senate is not the end of the world. That Coleman would stoop so low to disenfranchise a disabled person shows that he has no business being Senator. Even Burris doesn't stink as much as Coleman.
February 22, 2009 9:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
you are not bullying me, you are only trying to bully me. maybe you just dont know any better.
i can trace my family back 20+ generations in ireland and 15 generations in waco texas. i was born a lutheran.
a little history lesson for you. israel as a country was started as a religious homeland. there is no separation of church and state. they can call it a democracy all they want. find me somebody in an elected or appointed office higher than dog catcher who is not a jew. find me a front line soldier or commander in the IDF who is not a jew.
i cannot find the native population the irish, the norwegians, or the tejanos are currently imprisoning, can you help me out? i got nothing.
south africans were a favorite punching bag while they were oppressing their native population. we gave them holy hell whenever we ran across them and nobody gave it a second thought. you were applauded on campus for being in a demonstration against their bad actions. they oppressed using mostly financial means. the jews use helicopter gunships and phosphorous bombs that are war crimes to use in the first place. not very nice of them, is it?
but if you criticize the jews for the war crimes that are supporting today, or even point out the fact that they are, in fact jewish they just cannot take it. they have a fit and bitch and whine and call you names and call you a racist, as if that changes the facts.
i personally put nothing past people who would deny water and medical supplies and international aid to those women and children that they just bombed the shit out of while trapped in their own private prison. of course they never allow international inspectors in to see the carnage, that would be bad for 'business' as it were. and i put nothing past the people who support them. should i?
how many millions did norm get them over the last 6 years? anybody care to guess?
February 23, 2009 4:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ojim,
Israel is a sovereign state. Not all Jews are Israelis, in fact, most Jews or those with Jewish heritage in the world are not Israelis. I am not an Israeli, nor are many of those whom you are referring to.
Since the first Knesset election there have been Palestinian members - 59 in all, 12 (10%) currently. They have also been Deputy Speaker on 6 occasions - a role like Steny Hoyer and Dick Durbin rolled into one. The IDF has Druze, non-Jewish, generals over border and territory activities, and of course there is Amos Yarkoni and the Shaked. There is a Maronite, non-Jewish, Supreme Court Justice and multiple ambassadors. The Director of the Jewish National Fund is also a non-Jew.
(A quick aside on government in our country. Are you comfortable with the fact that the first two successors to the presidency are Catholic, the next two are a Baptist and a Methodist [groups the Lutherans have a long history of intolerance with],Geithner is Episcopalian, Gates is Christian, Holder is Episcopalian, Salazar and Vilsack are Catholic. How about the Senate leadership Mormon and Catholic.)
When my sixth great-grandfather John Alden stepped off the Mayflower, he helped create the "New Jerusalem" that began our country. Being founded as a socio-religious enterprise is not independent of democracy. Luckily, our nation moved beyond that notion, and have embraced representative democracy. That Israel, a sovereign nation for only 60 years, has been unable to resolve the democracy issue is disappointing to many of us who are Jewish or have Jewish heritage. It is also disappointing to us with an Arab/Muslim heritage to be disappointed in the behavior of our folks as well. I am in both groups. Pay a bit more attention, even on TPM and you will find that your idea of a monolithic Jewish conspiracy is unfounded. Many of us, I believe polling shows the majority of us, and the majority of Israelis also would love to get this issue resolved.
As for war crimes Amnesty International (I am a member since 1980) came out against both sides today. Is the Israeli government guilty, without a doubt. Is Hamas guilty, without a doubt. If we conflate the people with their governments, we would be in big trouble too. Did you support George Bush, the Iraq War, Republican Economic Policies, etc. ...? With your reasoning, by virtue of being an American, you did. Then you go further and conflate non-citizens who have a similar ethnic background. Mighty thin gruel.
I have never been silenced by any Jewish organization for criticizing Israel. Either here in Israel, or Europe. The same also applies to the Palestinians in the same places and multiple Arab and Muslim countries.
I also have deep roots in Ireland that came to the New World at different points in the past 300 years, and many relatives who stayed. Lutherans in Ireland are pretty rare, I don't think they could even support a congregation until the '50's. I am thrilled to hear about your Native American and Spanish background from Texas also. That makes us kin from another direction.
There are significant differences between South Africa and Israel. However, there are also many similarities which many of us regularly speak to and actively work against. Having been in South Africa during Apartheid, you are insane to assert that they mainly used financial means. Spend a night in jail during that time, and your mind changes really fast. Been there, done that.
Norway has the highest percentage of involuntary commitment of the mentally ill in the EU, over 5X the rate of the US. Ireland, it kind of depends on who, when and where you are, I have William the Longshanks on one side and Douglas Hyde on the other. There are plenty on both sides who would still call you on dismissing Irish violence and intolerance. The situation in Texas is also a little fraught - please google "my dog is hungry and he's hungry for buttocks". It is funny and pathetic, but shows that some Texans are just as idiotic as some fanatic Israeli settlers or Palestinian terrorists. Let's not even get started on the exploitation of illegal labor by corporate stalwarts.
As for being born Lutheran, that is simply impossible. Lutheranism is a confessional faith that must be adopted after birth, and requires - REQUIRES - baptism. It is not genetically inherited. If indeed believe you were born Lutheran, you accept that rather than a religion, Lutheranism is a socio-ethnic construct, or that Lutheran's are God's chosen people who pass on their status through simple birth. Funny, that sounds kind of Jewish.
February 23, 2009 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
if every decision maker up and down the line on the iraq war were republican. it would be the republican war, and the republicans would be soley responsible. if that were the case, every dollar that you send the RNC would be suspect. there is no way you could say that dollar you gave did not go for bullets.
sending money to israel is no different. its a theocracy. call it a democracy and let me know when they elect a person to leadership who is not jewish. i wont hold my breath.
every military decision maker in israel is jewish. and while there are members of the knesset from other faiths, they are not part of the decision making process. they are excluded. as i said, find me an appointed or elected decision maker higher than dog catcher who is not jewish. find me a commander in the IDF who is not jewish. best of luck.
"Pay a bit more attention, even on TPM and you will find that your idea of a monolithic Jewish conspiracy is unfounded."
its not a monolithic jewish conspiracy. a conspiracy is where people operate behind closed doors and are covert about their intentions. the jews are blatantly overt about their agenda, who makes the decisions, and who is in the chain of command. they dont conspire to control an area, they put helicopter gunships in the air, landmines on the ground and snipers on rooftops.
oh, and i was baptized at about a month old. as far as i can tell, they did not ask me my opinion on it.
February 23, 2009 11:21 PM | Reply | Permalink