Collins-Nelson Group Wants Upwards Of $80B Slashed From Stimulus
Sens. Ben Nelson (D-NE) and Susan Collins (R-ME) have come up with a list of about $100 billion* in programs they want slashed from the stimulus package, according to a working draft of a staff paper outlining the cuts. The linked document includes a list of $77.9B. But an aide to Sen. Nelson tells TPMDC that the latest negotiations come closer to the $100B mark.
Among the biggest cuts under discussion: $24.8 billion in state stabilization money for education, which was intended to plug existing budget holes; $15 billion in state incentive grants for education; and $1.4 billion for the National Science Foundation, which is wracked by a porn-viewership flap. Pell Grants were the biggest program to survive the debate over cuts, with $13.9 billion staying intact.
Senate Democratic leaders are likely to bring this package up for a floor vote today, aiming to achieve a filibuster-proof margin in support of these cuts before pushing to pass the entire stimulus by day's end. Hang onto your hats.
*Late Update: It's important to note that the list is a working draft. Negotiations on which programs to cut or save are moving so rapidly that the list is best viewed as a guidepost for what spending trims are being eyed by Nelson and Collins' centrist alliance, which unofficially includes upwards of a dozen senators at this point.
"They're looking at further cuts in addition to what you see on that," a Nelson spokesman told me, estimating that the current total in sliced spending is now closer to $100 billion. He declined to confirm which elements of the cut list have been removed or increased in size.
With Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) aiming to pass the stimulus before tomorrow, the final list of cuts could come to a vote within the next several hours.
Later Context Update: No matter what you think of the worthiness of the programs Nelson and Collins want to slice, their political goal is clear -- getting enough support to bring the stimulus bill out of reach of a GOP filibuster.
After meeting with President Obama, Collins said she has his support for a bill in the neighborhood of $800 billion. Since the stimulus is topping out above the $900 billion mark now, that would mean that the Nelson-Collins cuts have become the best hope for getting the recovery plan over the finish line.
Josh
Elana
Matt
Eric
Tell'em to take a hike. The Rethugs are driving the agenda on this bill and it has got to stop or it will never be passed in a form that achieves what Obama wants to achieve. Enough accomodation; it's time to say "No."
February 5, 2009 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately, nelson and collins' votes are needed for passage. Also, odds are that these cuts are coming from the blue dog dems and handful of moderate republicans. Say "No" and there goes the stimulus package possibly.
February 5, 2009 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
NO they're not. We keep assuming we need 60 votes to pass. Not true. We need 60 votes to block a fillibuster. Fine, let the R's fillibuster. At some point they'll run out of breath, or, the political heat for blocking a critical economic bill will be too much to bear.
February 5, 2009 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't you think its better to get something passed asap as opposed to playing politics? I do. Pass what everyone can agree on now and add the stuff cut in regular appropriations.
You are also forgetting the blue dogs and traitor joe in your addition concerning votes.
February 5, 2009 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
We're already playing politics. Put the damn thing up for a vote. It won't take any longer than it already has.
February 5, 2009 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You all should read the books by Alter and Kearns-Gooding that is Obama's historical mentor guide.
Compromise and gettting most things done moving forward is the key.
The momentum than can be revisited to move some of those cuts in other legislature initiatives. This would do well to gain a Senate coalition to block any of the Old South of the GOP where pragmatic politicians rise.
Snowe and Collins could soon move to being Independents and leave the party and even join the Democrats. Gregg has essentially done that leaving the GOP locked into the Old South and super uber vestiges in the West and Midwest Bible pockets.
February 5, 2009 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
My point is not that we don't compromise. My point is that education always is on the chopping block. Why is it that our children's futures are ALWAYS being compromised? Comromise on something else - schools have given up enough already.
February 5, 2009 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Arguably, there are 14 blue dog dem senators, which will be a problem and add in traitor joe. It might be tough to break 50, which would be a huge black eye.
February 5, 2009 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good point, but not all 14 are on the fence.
Either way, there are certainly other items which could be trimmed more equitably. Take 10% off each item and you get the same result.
Why are children and education somehow always on the chopping block? They act like education is right up there with those zero-gravity chairs or something. Enough already. Education is worth the investment.
February 5, 2009 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Totally not arguing with you. I submit that these programs will be funded in a huge education bill that will be touted as bringing america out of the dark ages and into the 21st Century. Let's see, maybe they will call the "Putting the children first bill" or something like that.
February 5, 2009 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hope you're right.
Sorry if I sound pissy, but I am PISSED. I volunteer at my son's school regularly. I sit on the school site council. I lead tours. I volunteer at lunch. I'm a member of the PTA. I help with fundraisers. I chair our fledgling Greening Committee. I'm in the mix, and I'm telling anyone who will listen that it isn't enough. Schools are literally on the brink of becoming non-functional. Some already are.
February 5, 2009 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hope that I am too. Fingers crossed. We have been in the wilderness for, what, 28 years? Let's give the guy a shot and see how it plays out.
My guess is as well that his mouth pieces in the senate will be blue dogs combined with moderate republicans. I am guessing that nelson and collins are acting on orders from headquarters. It totally makes sense when you think about it. Middle of the road.
February 5, 2009 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
The optics stink. *Oh yeah, education is such wasteful spending, let's trim that back.* I've had enough and want them to make some other line-item the bogeyman for a change... I can belive in.
February 5, 2009 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agree that education needs to be fixed, badly, but this isn't the time or place to address those items.
At best, these would be band-aids when we may need a heart-lung transplant. At worse, they are just one more place were recalcitrant politicians can make easy points. The democrats have really shot themselves in the foot by not playing it totally straight on this one.
Perception is reality at this point. A little "compromise" today may pay huge dividends tomorrow and the day after and the day after that.
February 5, 2009 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I respectfully disagree. State budgets are evaporating with tax revenues, and schools are getting killed as a result - a direct result of the tanking economy. Cut budgets = jobs lost. Simple as that. Cut school budgets, and not only are jobs lost, but children suffer in a number of ways that you can't undo later.
February 5, 2009 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
If trying to cram every budget priority into this bill means the thing never passes or faces fierce opposition, possibly a revolt by moderate dems, how is that going to accomplish the goal?
I agree that these are troubling issues and should be front and center in any education reform effort, but now is not the right time and this isn't an education bill. There is a lot more wrong with our education system that throwing good money after bad is able to fix.
We can't fix everything that is wrong with our country in a single bill. Nor should we try.
February 5, 2009 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
And . . . we can't fix everything in two weeks and two days. Jeez.
February 5, 2009 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Took forty years to break it. It might take every bit of Barack's first four years to even begin to fix it.
February 5, 2009 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Second.
February 5, 2009 3:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nor did I suggest we would.
February 5, 2009 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lost me at: "throwing good money after bad". That's not the issue.
Didn't say we should. Misses my point.
February 5, 2009 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would prefer a more methodical and systemic approach to fixing education. If our goal is to actually address the problem in a sustainable fashion, throwing a bunch of money at it won't get that done.
We already spend more per capita for education (among other things) than most other industrialized nations. More money is not the answer to our education problems and this is primarily a bill about getting large sums of money into the economy quickly.
I didn't say you think we should fix everything, but if we keep adding everyone's spending priorities to this bill, we won't be successful. We need to take a slightly longer view than the negotiations on this bill will allow.
February 5, 2009 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't disagree on most of what you say. But I object to the idea of funding cuts to relief-for-funding-cuts, especially when these funds can be argued as stimulative. And I object to education being the poster child for wasteful or low-prioriy spending, which it isn't.
There are a number of issues in education which I would love to be able to discuss, but the complexity is something we certainly don't have time or space for here as the column narrows.
But what I will say is that education has stopped being about the children.
NCLB is a bunch of crap. The teacher's unions, the government, unions administrators/bureaucrats, plus local, state and federal politicians stake their claims and put their stamp on things, but no one is actually stopping and looking at what children actually need. No one is actually taking the time to visit schools and watch what happens as low-income students hover over trash-cans trying to cram in their last few bites of unfinished lunch because the principal is yelling at them to hurry up, because they only have 20 minutes to eat. Why? Because the teacher's unions make certain demands about the maximum number of hours a teacher must work in a day while the government dictates that a minimum number of hours must be spent in the class teaching specific subjects which leaves no time for lunch and there's no funds to expand the school day by a lousy extra 20 minutes so kinds can eat their fill and thus be able to concentrate on learning instead of being distracted by hunger. Just one example of how the students' needs are simply pushed aside as other 'adult' priorities move in.
February 5, 2009 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
If some of the education spending can be shown to be stimulus spending, then I agree that it belongs in the bill.
If we can get these same programs addressed as part of a larger education bill, I don't think that waiting a few months is going to make the education system any worse. I think there is plenty of blame to go around with regards to our education system being FUBAR. NCLB was certainly the straw that broke the camel's back, but that bastard has been limping since before I graduated high school in 1988.
Navy SEALs have a great saying: Slow is fast. Meaning, we should be methodical and logical in our approach, else we might make a bad situation even worse.
February 5, 2009 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well one could say the devil is in the details. But nobody seemed to care when we printed $700b for failed bank managers, whether or not the funds would be used in the way it was intended. Oh yes, a little lip service, but nothing of substance. Bill passed in 2 weeks. (Why do we accept the double standard from the R's?)
And ultimately, all money spent is stimulative, just some more than others. Even those anti-gravity chairs - and I'm not suggesting they be in the bill - create jobs. Buy a chair? Real people with real jobs have to manufacture the raw materials to build the chair, then build it, process the paperwork, do the accounting, shipping, etc. This is basic economics: the flow of money = income. If the government makes money flow, then the economy will respond. (What's failing with TARP is that much of that money isn't flowing.)
So yeah, Head Start is stimulative, for example. If they hire more people to run their programs, that's stimulative. If they purchase more stuff, open new offices and pay new rent, upgrade websites or anything else - that's all stimulative. The only thing they can do that isn't stimulative is hold on to the money.
The question isn't whether or not it is stimulative. The real question is, is it worthwhile stimulative spending? There can be a number of factors by which one makes that decision. In my mind, it's bang for the buck. So, construction create jobs, but also imroves the infrastructure which is good for commerce in general. Helping schools turn out better students also creates jobs, and produces more talented young adults who are "good for commerce". But, clearly, the message these DINO's are sending is: NO, it sin't worthwhile.
You may agree with them. But I don't. Or, maybe you don't agree either. But you sure are working hard to defend their decision.
February 5, 2009 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't disagree with anything you've, but Obama needs to make this point in a clear enough voice to force the republican faithful to support his efforts from the grassroots if he truly wants more than a handful of conservatives to support the plan.
If his idea is to use this recovery as the first step in healing our divisions, he needs to stop wrestling with Congressional republicans and start making his case directly to the people. Not via YouTube but via NBC, ABC and CBS.
Either that or hire you as press secretary, because right now the democrats are getting their asses kicked in the media by the GOP.
February 5, 2009 6:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, their votes are only necessary to prevent a filibuster. So let's make 'em filibuster.
With cots in the halls, and reading the phonebook from the floor of the Senate, all on C-SPAN, 24-7, for all of America to see that the GOP doesn't give a damn about America, just about winning.
None of this 'Well, Mitch says they'll filibuster, so we won't bring it up' crap that Reid keeps trottin' out. Jeez, grow a pair, buddy!
February 5, 2009 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Totally agree. I'm not even 100% sure that the bill as is will achieve what Obama wants it to achieve, but it certainly will not if the Republicans start stripping out spending.
This has been a very disappointing week for me so far. Obama and the Democrats in general need to kick Republicans aside and make the best bill they can.
February 5, 2009 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
You got the extra votes to break a filibuster. At least four moderate Republicans are trying. That is more than their leadership. What is going on is called compromise.
February 5, 2009 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
And who's compromising? The Democrats, as usual. Every time that concede something, the Rethugs move the goal posts another 10 yards. If our folks don't start acting like they have spines, they'll end up in the far reaches of the parking lot outside the stadium, with a handful of .. nothing.
February 5, 2009 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
What is going on is compromise
Compromise:
Key words: "mutual", "reciprocal".
What's going on here is capitulation, not compromise.
February 5, 2009 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
First, I am totally not happy about the cuts. However, you know what is interesting when you think about it. Obama wanted 825 and right now it is a little north of 900, with these cuts it gets back to . . . . 825. Interesting. Very interesting. I am fascinated to see how this plays out.
February 5, 2009 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
It certainly will be fascinating if the final bill winds up with the original price tag.
The White House has pretty much bungled this from a communications stand point. Lindsay Graham described Obama as being AWOL with respect to providing leadership as the bill moves through the Senate.
Which is a pretty breathtaking indictment of Harry Reid, if you ask me, but will only be described as "Obama failing early leadership test".
Maybe Obama has a long term strategy. Given his plan for the nomination, I tend to think he does. But if he gets lopped off at the knees because of constant unrelenting negative coverage of this bill, that strategy will be unfulfilled. So forgive me. I'm skeptical of how the White House has chosen to handle this bill.
February 5, 2009 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the whitehouse's mistake was allowing the dem house to do the bill in the first instance, without beating them over the head and controlling the final product. That was the mistake. Hey, mistakes are made. I am willing to bet that this won't happen again. The obama administration wasn't even in power when the bill was started and finalized in the house. Let's see how this plays out. Fascinating.
February 5, 2009 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm starting to agree with you. The House being the House tends to take the ball and run with it.
Without a plan to follow and without PR to counter the Republicans, this one went a bit far. BUT, since the stimulus cost went so high, pairing it back to 800 billion is better than being at 800b and pairing it down to something even smaller. It may actually work in our favor that the House went so porky once the thing gets passed (yeah I know, if it gets passed).
February 5, 2009 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem was that the American people were never asked for any input on this and it was left to Congressional aides. The best protection for this bill against Repub attacks would be if it was co-authored by the American people.
February 5, 2009 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Regardless of whether this memo is current or old or whether its moving up or down:
a) I find it repulsive that these same 14 or so jerkoffs have become the Supersenate that dicates law to the rest of the Senate, to the House, to the President and to the American people--especially given that I absolutely cannot stand most of them--Ben Nelson in particular.
b) I find even more repulsive the idea that staffers working for the Supersenate have basically replaced two full branches of government.
c) This bill basically got up to 900B because they dumped the AMT fix into it. That's 70 billion that was going to happen anyway and, in any case is hard to destribe as "stimulus" with a straight face. If you cut 25 billion of more or less real stimulus out, what you've really got is a 700 billion dollar stimulus bill, which is too small to do enough good to justify the political price
d) State stablization is the most single most immediately critical component of this whole goddamned bill. The fact that they are even thinking of looking to cut it is what proves they are idiots. It's like "Keynes? Who's that?"
e) The fact that they are considering cutting state stablization--which is both idiotic and the one thing guarenteed to get all 50 governors and a lot of constituients screaming in their ear--makes me wonder if there isn't some deeper game going here. For example the "we'll put it back in in conference and move it back to the senate under the 'no filibustering budget reconciliation bills' rule" game.
f) The fact that they are proposing cuts of $750,000,000 from the appropriation for NASA--which, incidentally, is also among the most stimulus for the buck areas of the federal budget--further makes me question the seriousness of this thing. I mean, yeah, like Bill Nelson is going to get on board with that.
February 5, 2009 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
You do realize that this amount of cut will just bring the bill to the same total amount that passed the House?
There's always a tendency to turn the first big spending bill in a session into a Christmas tree. If they added in everything that everyone thinks we need it would wind up at $3 TRILLION. Just as we do in our personal budgets, we have to be realistic in our expectations on what we can afford. We don't get everything we want.
I'm even willing to give up my pony.
February 5, 2009 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm willing to give up my unicorn, too. But only if I seen concessions being made by Republicans, and so far, I'm not seeing much. Given that 36 of them voted to scrap ALL spending in this bill, I'm not even seeing hints of concessions.
February 5, 2009 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
One of the advantages in being in the minority is that you get to propose and vote for all sorts of nonsense without ever having to face the consequences of having it pass. This is a sop to their base. After the last two elections you'd think they would have figured out that appealing to their base isn't going to cut it. Maybe instead of an elephant their symbol should be a dinosaur.
February 5, 2009 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like this symbol better:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1848whigbanner.jpg
I think it is more appropriate.
February 5, 2009 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just makes me wonder when their base is finally going to get sick of being sopped on. A good chunk have already lost their jobs, with more to come the longer all this sopping goes on.
I don't think excommunicating the Blue Dawgs and what's left of the moderate Republicans makes much sense, for the reasons others have pointed out above.
The real interference is coming from the fringe. What concerns me is that DeMint and the Heritage crowd have been crying like babies, making so much noise it's getting tough to hear anyone else.
February 5, 2009 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
CT, what do you think about the Rep's 4% mortgage proposal? They're making it out to be a panacea, but I've yet to form an opinion. I'd personally love a 4% house interest rate. But the consequences?
February 5, 2009 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who wouldn't love a 4% rate?
On the surface, it sounds fabulous. But the fact that the government would be on the hook to make up the difference between 4% and whatever the interest rate happens to creep up to makes me extremely wary.
As do the claims that they'll find a way to pay for it. Right.
February 5, 2009 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem with the proposal is that "you have to be credit worthy." Think about it. We have millions and millions and millions of homes that have been foreclosed on or are in foreclosure. Are any of those people "credit worthy"? How on earth will that solve the problem? Throw in the massive unemployement and under-employment? It won't solve the problem, it's just more republican hot air and bs.
February 5, 2009 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you.
February 5, 2009 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're absolutely right. And don't forget that no bank is going to give you a loan at ANY interest rate if you are upside down, as are so many. When the Repubs suggest such things, it's wise to look at who really benefits from the "relief" offered. In this case, it is the same banks that got us into this mess in the first place.
Why am I not surprised.
February 5, 2009 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hold on there, Goofy. I'm normally in agreement with you, but this time I'm not.
I don't believe that allowing teachers to be laid off, which is what the state education prevention funds are supposed to prevent, is what the public had in mind for compromise. Nor do I think cutting Head Start, IDEA, and Title I each by 50% is what the public had in mind for compromise.
We didn't get into politics just to pass legislation. We went into politics because we thought our ideas would best serve the public interest. We campaigned on all these ideas in 2008, and now they're getting shortchanged.
February 5, 2009 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Problem is, the Rethugs aren't willing to give up their yachts. Or their tax cuts (which yield, what, something like $0.70 in economic activity for every dollar spent, i.e. not raised?) So how exactly is that stimulative, and why are Democrats, from Obama on down, not hammering that point?
February 6, 2009 1:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just get it to conference, so it can be fixed, and can't be filibustered!
February 5, 2009 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can't they filibuster again when it comes out of conference? I think that they can.
February 5, 2009 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Y'know what... screw them. Really. Education is getting the shaft yet again. Why? Do we not care about kids? What - are teacher's jobs not as good as other jobs? If building highways creates an infrastucture for commerce which will pay dividends for years to come, then educating our children is building our intellectual infrastructure which will also pay divdends for years to come. If you can rush a vote to dump $700 billion on a bunch of incompetent bank execs - without any oversight of the money whatsoever - then what's so gawd awful about sending a small fraction of that amount to our kids? Is that too much to ask? What is wrong with these people?
February 5, 2009 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cuts to education and science! Mmmmmm. Smell the bipartisanship!
February 5, 2009 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I smell blue dog & DINO droppings. Watch your step.
February 5, 2009 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cutting science and education is like bloodletting. To idiots it seems like a good idea, but it makes us weaker. Of all the things to stimulate the economy, science and technology is probably the most long term freaking guarantee of improving our economy. I do think that we need to think about how education money is used more, so we aren't just throwing money at bad policies, but sheesh.
February 5, 2009 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Education and science are always such easy targets. One of my pet peeves is how badly scientists tend to be portrayed in the entertainment media. And we don't do a particularly good job of public relations ourselves, so it's easy to lop money from the science agencies.
That being said, (and yes, I've been hammering Democrats for capitulating to Republicans), I don't see how money to the NSF counts as a "stimulus".
February 5, 2009 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
It would cause more spending in science and equipment, but it's true that there would be a lag of probably years between increasing NSF funding and that money being spent. Science is very fruitful in the long term, but if we want results now.....
February 5, 2009 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, my head just exploded - I am a local school board member and the state's tax structure is such that we rely on state funding. Our state budget is imploding and thus so will our school district, and every other district in Oregon. We're facing a 10% cut in next year's budget on top of cuts to this year's budget and years of declining funding and underinvestment. And these Senators think cutting the state stabilization funding is a good idea? They are insane! That would have been our only lifeline. Aren't they listening to the economists, the governors, anyone but the idiots on cable TV?
As for funding for programs like IDEA, Title 1, Head Start - these programs have been underfunded for years, this would have begun to help us build back, will save/create jobs (yes, teachers are real Americans who pay taxes and spend in the economy), will ensure future productivity, and on and on.
How can these idiots not see that this money is desperately needed and a smart move that is needed RIGHT NOW without all this phony posturing?
All that said- if (tho at this point it seems like a big if given the ineptitude of the Congressional Dems) this can be restored in conference, then let's just get 'er passed.
February 5, 2009 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, I just read that through, and frankly, I see no problem with the removal of a lot of that stuff from the stimulus, with the exception of the education stuff and the money for the NSF. A lot of that is not gonna help it.
I support the stimulus one way or another, but if we gotta drop this stuff to get it through, the bulk of this is no biggie
Although I'd like to see the additional funds saved from these things applied to infrastructure then
February 5, 2009 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
No problem? No biggie?
Then you havn't been paying attention to what's going down in the education arena. Read Ruth in OR's post above yours. In CA, schools are on the verge of collapse. There's a point at which the lack of funds renders quality education impossible. And this isn't just money for teachers. Schools have huge budgets which pay for food services, janitorial, maintanence, supplies, and so on. As those funds dry up, those services aren't bought, and other people also lose their jobs. As those funds dry up, school lunches are reduces, so more kids go hungry. As the budget is reduces, the lights go off, heaters turn off, facilities don't get repared... some of our schools are beginning to have a 3rd world look about them. No Child Left Behind, my arse.
No problem? No biggie?
You don't know what the F you're talking about.
February 5, 2009 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I said I don't like the Education cuts. The "No Biggie" referred to everything else. I apologize for not being clear. I agree 100% that education nationwide is a trainwreck. I graduated high school just as No-Child-allowed-to-be-smarter-than-a-rock was coming into effect, and my mother (an 8th grade English teacher) has said how its essentially forced her to teach... nothing, and each year the new batch of students is dumber than the last as the quality of their earlier years of education has degraded.
Point is, I know that education is a big deal, and I'm not willing to concede a dime of that money
February 5, 2009 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the clarification, and I appreciate your comments of support.
February 5, 2009 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
How can this stuff not come back up as part of the ordinary budgeting process? Christ on a crutch, everyone is acting like this is the one time the Congress gets to spend money, and if it ain't in there, it ain't gonna happen.
February 5, 2009 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know what Lars, you're right. Except that education ALWAYS gets the shaft. Enough is enough. Why is education and science being treated like the ugly unwanted stepchild yet again? Sure, throw $700b at failing banks, but let's all give a pass to caving in on education once again? Sorry Lars, but not me. Not anymore.
February 5, 2009 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Me thinks that this is obama politics playing out big time based on the latest updates to the main post. Let's wait and see where this takes us.
February 5, 2009 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Senator Cochran of Mississippi was on NPR this morning saying that he does support infrastructure spending in a stimulus package. He notes Mississippi's unique status as being screwed by Katrina, but it gives me a little hope that we can get this stimulus done. (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100272818).
Note that Cochran has a middle-of-the-road Republican ranking in 538's Rep Senator calibration: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/02/most-powerful-women-in-america.html
February 5, 2009 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, well, it's quite revealing that THAD COCHRAN OF MISSISSIPPI is considered a middle of the road Republican.
I lived there for seven years. Elected Democrats from Mississippi are only slightly to the left of Newt Gingrich. Republicans? You can imagine.
February 5, 2009 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL, you get to serve again.
February 5, 2009 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cochran's ideology is pet projects for MS businesses. That's about it.
February 5, 2009 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right. I don't see any problem with any of the stuff getting cut. Assuming the education stuff gets cut, that still leaves 115-120 billion for education. I'm okay with that.
February 5, 2009 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
The notion of stimulus spending has become far too narrowly defined to only include 1950s era projects that entail pouring concrete.
These cuts are harmful. Most of what I've seen that they're trying to cut would be helpful. We need more jobs than just for laborers to push shovels. It's 2008 and jobs include white collar work, research.
And, if families can't send their kids to college anymore, that will also hurt the economy in many ways.
This debate is saddled with some real dumb polemics and posturing.
February 5, 2009 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama just gave a helluva speech - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/29035531#29035531
It's worth watching the whole thing, but here's a snippet transcript (from Kos)-
I'd go as far as saying I wish he gave this speech in prime time, across all networks. He needs to really use that bully pulpit.
February 5, 2009 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed, Jonze.
It's great to see President Obama get out there and fight for his bill. Republicans and Blue Dogs are having trouble breaking old habits.
Love this:
"we can't go back to the same worn-out ideas that led us here in the first place."
February 5, 2009 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Definitely. I would give a similar speech in several states around the country--including Florida, whose Republican governor is a strong supporter of the stimulus bill. Charlie Crist is one of the few Repubs that I have any respect for, he actually is more concerned about the needs of his state and its citizens. Go figure.
Fire up AF1 and take it to the people. I wish he had done something similar last week.
February 5, 2009 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe the White House overestimated the Democrats ability to make a case and underestimated the Republicans ability to make a case.
If so, I imagine it won't ever happen again.
February 5, 2009 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I'm kind of surprised that Obama wouldn't know how ineffective Harry Reid is. I'm a little surprised I haven't heard much from Nancy Pelosi, seeing as how Repubs have turned her into the anti-Christ. She's got more balls than Reid.
February 5, 2009 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
She's got more balls than Reid.
Sure seems to. And all that ballsiness is hidden behind the pearls and grandmother act.
February 5, 2009 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's an example of harmful Nelson-Collins cuts:
State governments provide services that will be in GREATER need as more people lose jobs. Fulfilling unemployment claims, worker retraining and other social services.
State governments may have to lay people off, however, because the economy has significantly harmed their finances. Further, without aid, they will need to cut spending for things like road building and other hard infrastructure investments.
State layoffs add to the number of job seekers and damage the economy even further.
Frankly, the Nelson-Collins play is an example of idiotic posing for the cameras and grandstanding while the nation's economy teeters on the precipice. Penny wise fools.
February 5, 2009 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not so sure they Pell Grants are NOT being cut:
Greg Sargent has a different take (and it's way more disgusting than what's listed here):
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/stimulus-package/senate-dems-eying-cuts-in-domestic-violence-crime-programs-pell-grants/
February 5, 2009 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Obama is more in line with the blue dogs when it comes to fiscal matters. I think he'll always play the progressives against the Republicans, and ultimately will get what he wants and call it a compromise.
February 5, 2009 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I must be a blue dog or something. I agree with many of those cuts. Some of those items are flat out just pumping money into some new programs and existing programs that wouldn't necessarily create many jobs and wouldn't get as much bang for your buck on infusion of money as would say, jobless or food stamp extensions.
I don't believe anything on that list that contains upgrading or modernizing would be wasteful as it would be considered putting people to work to perform the projects.
I sure wish they could find some more infrastructure and building upgrade to energy efficient projects that will not only create short term benefits and jobs but will have good long term benefits. I really think state Governors and Senators failed to get a good list of shovel ready projects for states. Of course there were about 35 or so Senators that flat out wouldn't contribute any projects other than tax cut projects.
February 5, 2009 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can hear Krugman now, that it's not big enough, and I can hear the Right now, saying it's too big.
The House wanted a four-mile bridge to cover a three-mile gap. The House bill was larded up like no piece of legislation in history -- but much of the lard was good, contrary to the GOP talking points (can someone please kick Kingston in the nards and get him around to seeing logic?).
Still, it had to -- and should-- have been cut back. Frankly, I would rather slice out the kind of things like NEA funding and contraceptive programs and things of that nature that are not really stimulus (eschewing the GOP idea of stimulus, which is just tax cuts and road repair, which is Hooverite insanity). I mean true stimulus. Those other things can come back as part of the ordinary budget process, which is where I think they should be anyway.
I would rather have a bill that has some measure of bipartisan support (even if it is one or two Republican senators), provided it does not completely compromise Democratic principles, because if it turns out we created a three-and-a-quarter mile bridge, but the gap turns out to be five miles wide, we need to come back and spend more. I would rather this be seen as lean as reasonably possible (while still being historically unprecedented in size), in order to save some room on the drawing board if we need to come back to this.
As for Obama's style and smarts, I have doubted and been skeptical and have seen written on thine brow the name DOOM too many times only to be wrong. Every fucking time. I'm sticking with Obama on this.
February 5, 2009 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sticking with Obama on this.
Me too.
As much as the Republicans have been running their mouths off about this, and as much as the punditocracy and been skewering Obama over it, if he comes through with a big ass bill being passed with (reasonable) bipartisan support, he will look like fricking genius. Congress won't look too bad either.
I think he knows what he's doing. He needs to restore confidence in governance.
February 5, 2009 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Me three. Co-sign on both. Let's give the guy some time. It's only been two weeks and two days. I remember when I wrote him off in August of 07 and . . . . what happened? Hello. Give him some time.
February 5, 2009 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cutting computers for federal agencies. Some of these agencies haven't seen new systems in some time and are limping along on old outdated technology.
Kinda makes it harder to responsibly manage the Recovery funds that way.
February 5, 2009 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Dems should give the Republicans and fake Dems nothing. Leave it all in and add a couple hundred billion more. Make it into a budget bill and use reconciliation to pass it. Aim for 51 votes. Throw in whatever pork is necessary to get there. Tell the Republicans to sit down and shut up. Save the country. Done.
February 5, 2009 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clearly those that are okay with these things being cut are not low income, if you were (as I am) you would be furious! These cuts are going to hurt those that need it most.
Oh, and apparently COBRA benefits are possibly on the chopping block as well, at least according to HuffPo. This is exactly the wrong way to go.
February 5, 2009 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
State stabilization a deal killer unless it is also in the House Bill and the plan is to put it back in Conference
February 5, 2009 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Should be anyway...but Senate Leadership is an oxymoron
February 5, 2009 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Said it a month ago
Getting a bill passed is more important (up to a point of course) than being defeated.....
You'd think that would be obvious but precious little evidence of this from the Demo side
The Republicans aren't confused
February 5, 2009 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
well, Obama seems to be winning the PR war. According to the Huff Post, Nelson's aide said about the list:
"It's several days old and not necessarily reflective of what's in the bill. I don't think it's accurate to cite anything in the list. There isn't a working plan that's before them," he told the Huffington Post.
"There have been changes made to the plan," Thompson emphasized. The negotiations are ongoing, he said, and he wasn't sure what specific changes had been made.
I think the blogosphere has to have patience with Obama here.
Computerizing health records creates jobs.
From Yahoo News:
According to research by IBM and the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation, investing $10 billion in Electronic Health Records (EHR) and other health IT projects would create 212,000 jobs. Furthermore, multiple independent studies have shown substantial return on investment for health IT -- ranging from 10-year savings of $530 billion to annual savings of $77.8 billion -- which could help lower healthcare costs.
February 5, 2009 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Were are the cuts in the tax cuts Republicans insisted? Those cuts should remain no more than 1/3 of the bill.
February 5, 2009 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nelson's backpedaling now. Check this out:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/05/dem-senator-proposes-majo_n_164323.html
February 5, 2009 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anyone notice that half the cuts($40B) are the 100% elimination of State stabilization funds? Can we let all the folks in the states that s/b recipients that the GOP is telling them to go to hell?
And about $14B is the 100% elimination of added PELL Grant money, when community colleges and public universities are being swamped by people who suddenly are unemployable, have no income stream, and are serious enough to go back to school for new training and education?
How shortsighted are these clowns? Oh, wait...they're Republicans!!! I forgot. They don't care about US (that's U.S.) They only care about their corporate donors.
February 5, 2009 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think we're turning Republican again!
Obama fans be careful what you wish for: Calling for change we're getting cuts in science, art, Amtrak, plus more faith-based government, stunning lapses in cabinet appointments --not to mention appointing establishment Republicans like Gregg and Gates and hiring those wild west deregulators Summers and Geithner.
Is the Democrat Plan to run the country the same as the Republican Plan?
What next? Sarah Palin as Obama's appointee to replace Ginsberg. Enough!
February 5, 2009 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eliminate the filibuster rule. Can do it with a mere majority vote in the Senate.
End supermajority rule.
February 5, 2009 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh sure, that will send a lovely precedent when a future generation has to deal with the same cabal but doesn't have the fillibuster as a defense.
The nuclear option is good so long as your side pulls the trigger, right?
Seriously, what is it that you want from government?
February 5, 2009 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is what is wrong with Congress and why some advocated that FDR take dictatorial powers. He did not have to since the 1933 Congress was afraid to take him on, the Democrats had huge margins, and supported the president who brought them in from the wilderness.
The stimulus has to be bigger, not smaller. Yes, there are a few boondoggles here, you can't stop the Congress from larding these things up, especially in an emergency situation, but the idea is, as FDR said, to act and to act now.
Rahm should be threatening to run someone against Ben Nelson and Collins----she cannot stand up to the President without seriously jeopardizing her political life,
February 5, 2009 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
This bill is a stimulus bill. The goal is to stimulate the economy as soon as possible and stabilize it over the next several years. The bill represents a pendulum swing away from the failing private sector into public sector works.
That being said, it is easy to get mad when items get removed from an omnibus bill. You remove a piece of the pie, and that piece's special interest will cry out loud. Those of us that believe in and fight for education in this country are aghast over the GOP intent to "compromise" by knifing away education. Can the progressives effectily argue for its stimulus power, however? Further, can these very agenda items be passed on another piece of legislation, say one that is geard towards education overhaul and reform?
We are in a different era, and there are choices. We can define this era. This era can be one where we continue to attack the government where on one side are effective lethal Republicans and the other side are wimpy Democrats. We can analyze every slashed budget item as a call to arms, and view every scandal as the next Watergate.
In effect, we will be behaving exactly as our masters desire. Reagan said the government does not work... and here we are as progressives reinforcing that meme every single day. The Republicans want an aura of power... and here we are as progressives granting them that illusion every single day. When a budget item (that can be added on another bill) gets slashed from this stimulus package, we say it is because the GOP is so powerful and all over the airwaves and the Dems are caving. We are confusing the process of checks and balances with GOP might. Thus we are lending to the image of Republican power. Then there is the reinforcement that every scandal is dooming Obama... and that only makes the first two points stronger.
We are engaging in a circular firing squad. Our republic has always behaved in a spirit of compromise, brokerage, and negotiations. Many of these negotiations are unpleasant because there are a host of interests vying for the spotlight. I can tell you this: if the slave state compromises did not destroy this country, then the current stimulus compromises will not destroy it either.
If you as a progressive view progress as "my ideas, my spending, my needs, right now," then you are in the wrong place at the wrong time in history. There is an opposition based on ideas that are finally losing their lustre. But it does not happen immediately, and certainly not when there is a crisis to be managed. As far as I am concerned, the GOP can demand cuts on a host of items that can not be argued as pure stimulus. If the economy gets stimulated and funds begin coming back to the treasury, then we can afford to tackle education and health care. Then the GOP will look like fools for stepping in the way in a time of crisis.
You can see it happening now. A gang of four is busy building the consensus necessary for a brave surrender from the GOP. Instead of seeing this and celebrating it, we are attacking the natural state of governance...
What did you all expect? A mirror image of Bush? A bizzaro world where Obama can push whatever progressive legislation he desires and we can through fiat become a utopia? Seriously?
Bush was a tyrant who was slowly drained by the actions of a heroic few. But while he governed, he was most certainly a tyrant and the Congress were a bunch of rubes. History may one day reveal what actually happened to allow our Republic to temporarily become a tyranny. But now... now we have the first strains of a real working representative government. And to me it is beautiful. (End Rant)
February 5, 2009 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great rant. I agree with you.
I think Obama understands that below the surface of everything going on is a severe crisis of confidence. And it's not just the economy. Americans have lost confidence in the whole system.
And to begin to repair it, people have to believe that their government is responsible and capable of getting things done on their behalf. Part of getting things done is working together and reaching consensus. Isn't that what Obama has been telling us from day one of his candidacy? Isn't that what we hired him to do?
We are seeing it in action now. The purpose is not to defeat the Republicans, it is to restore American confidence. If the Republicans stand in the way of this, they will defeat themselves.
February 5, 2009 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Second every word. Once again I am convinced that progressive and liberal are not synonymous terms.
February 5, 2009 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, nothing is more stimulative than investment in education over the medium and long haul. Look it up.
But these aren't additions to education these morons are targeting. This is money intended to keep states from having to fire teacher, fire teacher's aids, fire administrators, reduce textbook purchases, postpone planned capital upgrades and on and on and on.
Keynes 101: keeping state and local governments, that are constrained by balanced budget requirements or limits on borrowing ability s from having to fire people is the single most important thing to put a floor under this thing. In times like this, government's share of GDP has to increase or we're screwed and, in particular, if state and local employees go from employees to food stamp and unemployment recipients we're ultra screwed. For Nelson and Collins to be eyeing money intended to keep that from happening for cutting is so astonishingly, staggeringly ignorant as to beggar the imagination.
February 5, 2009 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you. I've been trying to make this point upthread for a while. Jason, Lars, you paying attention?
February 5, 2009 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am going to listen the beatles tonight and turn up the sound for "Revolution". It is getting ripe for a people's revelution w/ these assfats who don't care how bad people are hurting!
February 5, 2009 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe the government should sell some of "their" jets. And also cut from the stimulus package the extra money they want to give to congress for "brand new" cars on top of what they already receive every year for "brand new" cars.
February 5, 2009 11:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
The GOP -- aka as the Party of No
February 5, 2009 11:38 PM | Reply | Permalink