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FutureGen 'Clean Coal' Earmark Removed From Stimulus
Thanks to a reader who sent us the final numbers on what's in and out of the final stimulus bill, we can finally start digging into the substance of the deal that's headed for approval by this weekend. (We have the charts of those internal numbers for you right here.)
Here's the first thing I noticed: Remember when we told you about the Senate's attempt to sneak in a $2 billion earmark for FutureGen, the Illinois "clean coal" plant? That's been zeroed out in the final stimulus pact.
As strange as this sounds, score one for Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK).
Late Update: N.B. Until legislative language is formally filed on the bill today, there's always the possibility that these numbers could change. What we're bringing you are the freshest details.
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Josh
Matt
Eric
A score?
America 0
Coburn 1
Is that the score on this? Sounds like it.
Hey this is off topic, but it's something that bothers me a bit.
On right wing radio there's been talk of storming D.C. with torches and pitchforks. I'm hanging out on some extreme right wing blogs to gauge how these people are taking things right now.
There's a lot of talk about a revolution.
Did this kind of talk start up with Clinton took over or is this some sort of new phenomenon?
I'm sure most of you have heard of the paranoia with gun owners and gun sellers are out of stocks of guns and ammo because the NRA and other right wing media outlets have gotten everyone into a frenzy.
At what point does this kind of talk become an issue people should be concerned about? I really haven't heard too much talk about this uprising on the MSM yet. I'm afraid it's going to take some sort of serious incident to get media attention.
Am I just paranoid?
February 12, 2009 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wouldn't be so vocal, especially on-line. You may, unintentionally, be consider a part of it, if it happens to be true. If it were true, they would be but a small minority, mostly repugs, and would be put down in short order.
February 12, 2009 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
It happened with Clinton too (the NRA sales) though I am not sure about revolution talk as I don't hang out there.
That said, who would put them down? The National Guard who are all in Iraq? The police who are pretty damn fascist and get off on tazing to kill the dirty fucking hippies already? The military that has a substantial number of evangelical apocalyptic southerners and who are also in Iraq and Afghanistan?
I'm learning how to shoot a gun though I don't intend to own one. If they do try a rising I am going to sell myself dearly.
February 12, 2009 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
There wasn't the web and there's no links or quantified studies, but my recollection is that is was not as bad, but still a long way from civil. They virulently attacked Clinton and government bureaucrats as evil until, predictably, there were nutjobs shooting at the White House, private militias, and of the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City. Though I don't think the violent rhetoric got this bad this fast.
Sadly, I hope I'm wrong, but I've been predicting a rise in right wing violence.
February 12, 2009 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry to burst your bubble but Bu$h revised posse commitus act.
This is what it use to say : The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law with the intention of substantially limiting the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement.
Bu$h changed it specifically by creating a military command structure whose sole responsibility was the protection of the country from within the borders; not outside. Big difference here!
So now we have a military command with troops and equipment that can run roughshod over local, county and state police and fire units. If a riot starts to turn into civil disobedience they'll be there advising. If it starts to look something short of outright rebellion (armed rioters) we may just see Baghdad styled shock and awe response.
February 12, 2009 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ha ha...when's the last time you've seen a "Republican Riot?" You guys are nuts!
February 12, 2009 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Sarge. Once upon a time, September 1998 to be exact, there is a Russian who predicted the demise of the USofA as we know it in 2010.
The article can be found in an obscure, ultra-rightwing rag called the Wall Street Journal. Here's the url. Go read it yourself. There may be more truth to mike from Arlington post.
* DECEMBER 29, 2008
As if Things Weren't Bad Enough, Russian Professor Predicts End of U.S
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html
February 12, 2009 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
...and the Mayans predicted the world would end in 2012...
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-03-27-maya-2012_n.htm
February 12, 2009 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Brooks brother suit riot to stop the recount in Fl.
February 12, 2009 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/02/futuregen-clean-coal-earmark-removed-from-stimulus.php
"Within minutes, some two dozen GOP recount observers and other Bush supporters..."
LMAO! 2 dozen is a riot? Call out the National Guard!
February 12, 2009 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
You mistake me sir. I did not mean they would not be able to, I meant that right now they are too busy being shot at in Iraq to decamp and return to home-soil quickly enough. Are there are enough personnel remaining to control the entire country in the face of Rightist revolution? Maybe.
But I'm not too bothered about the Force of the County revisions. Anyone who would actually use the military in that way would not be caring about the law and who has the force to oppose them? No one.
February 12, 2009 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't worry, Republicans never protest "en masse," most of us have non-union jobs so we don't get bussed to protest rallys + wages. I don't think you have anything to fear.
February 12, 2009 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
You must have just work up from a heavily sedated sleep there Sarge. Unions have pretty much disappeared in the last 8 years. Besides, I know for a fact Rumsfield was sneaking about in DC evaluating how use the subway and bus system in DC as a means to gain easy access into the capital as a common, ordinary low-life citizen without drawing too much attention to himself. He failed in both, however, he now is aware of the intense security placed on people moving in and out of the Capital.
February 12, 2009 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude...I attended the Chambliss Martin debate here in Perry GA. There were about 200 locals (less than 10 for Martin) and 200 Union members bussed down from Atlanta for Martin. (Guess which group was rudely disrupting the debate?)Face it Republicans don't protest because we have to go to work.
February 12, 2009 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Really, so then all the republicans lined up at polling places trying to intimidate voters in the last election were paid employees? Thanks for the clarification. I guess republicans get paid to protest, so they are "working."
February 12, 2009 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
When the thugs were interfering with the 2000 recount in Florida, I stayed at work rather than flying down there. I thought the rule of law would take care of itself. That's a decision I still rue.
February 12, 2009 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think these guys are Republicans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFOKnJ0oXYY&feature=related
February 12, 2009 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think these guys are Republicans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFOKnJ0oXYY&feature=related
February 12, 2009 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since when did repugs ever debate? - they cut off debate for the first 6 years when they controlled the House and Senate. Second, you proved my point. If there were as many union members as you claim then why did they have to be bussed in?
February 12, 2009 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is Georgia...not many unions outside of Fulton county.
February 12, 2009 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, just like military service...get someone else to do it and we'll pay for it.
btw...the gun sales went up immediately after Sarah Palin became the the VP pick. Again, consider that after hearing the ridiculous rhetoric coming from those standing in line at the Palin/McCain events sane non- racist people immediately determined they needed guns as a matter of protection from the hordes of ignorant Rush cultivated fundies. Shocked at the dumbing down of America will make gun sales go through the roof...for new gun owners only...the others use any reason to buy a gun just to add to their arsenal.
Only idiots didn't learn anything from the last 8yrs of conservatism. Instead of jumping from a burning sinking ship these goobers want to poke more holes in it to let in more water to put the flames out.
February 12, 2009 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I did 24 years in the Army...how about you?
February 12, 2009 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nothing new about it. These are the folks who wish for the end of days but generally are doing absolutely nothing to bring it about. :)
It died out with the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City--mainly because the FBI infilitrated the groups, I suspect. I also highly suspect that the heated rhetoric coming on these sites is being monitored by the FBI under the category of potential domestic terrorism of the Oklahoma City variety.
I'd only worry about it if my home just happened to be next to one of their compounds. :)
February 12, 2009 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
How is Obama going to reconcile the fact that there is no such thing as "clean coal" with the constant playing of the ad in which he's pushing for clean coal on the campaign trail?
February 12, 2009 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since when do politicians have any trouble wiggling out of things like that?
February 12, 2009 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I suspect the clean coal issue spoken during the campaign was similar to Bu$h's claim to be a uniter, not a divider ... water under the bridge.
February 12, 2009 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, I don't disagree with that, but it seems that at some point, he's going to have to answer a question about why he's all over cable news in an ad for "clean coal" when no such thing exists.
I think it's a slightly different situation from the typical distance between campaign rhetoric and governing reality.
February 12, 2009 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because he does believe it. Dem rising star Brian Schweitzer is a hardcore clean coal guy too.
February 12, 2009 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the "Clean Coal" people are just using campaign footage for their own purposes.I think aside from plates and dolls, this is one of the reasonsthe WH is looking to get more control of the 'Obama Image and Likeness'.
February 12, 2009 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I actually bought the bull until I looked into it. There is no such thing and it is kind of sad that it was pushed by him. Maybe he was uninformed on the issue. No, we have to look to other alternatives. Leave the coal where it is, in the ground.
February 12, 2009 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
It should be "required coal" not "clean coal" because we are already set up with coal for 50% of our energy needs...which we need to find a way out of and not increase. By "Clean Coal" and the "new" coal plants, it's a good thing because the old plants were horrible pollutants and the burning of coal has become "cleaner" but it will always be a heavy pollutant which we have been dependent on but only because there has been no serious attempt to replace it with solar and wind power until recently. The motto should be:
"Keeping coal cleaner until we can replace it...Cleaner Coal is the better coal."
February 12, 2009 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I could get behind a motto like that. . .
February 12, 2009 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think he's perfectly aware that there is no such thing as clean coal, but he also realizes that there can be "cleaner" coal, and that is probably preferable to continuing to buy oil from our enemies.
February 12, 2009 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll buy into cleaner coal, but not clean ... no such animal.
February 12, 2009 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sure I don't have to point this out but it's not the coal per se that's cleaner but the method for burning it. And it is, indeed, cleaner. Based on pilot studies it should be possible to capture at least 90% of the CO2 (likely more), and virtually all of the mercury, sulfur and other pollutants generated in its burning. That makes it cleaner than oil, gas and even renewables when you factor in the pollution generated in their growth, transportation and processing.
February 12, 2009 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
The link to Elana Schor's post says Obama made serious his intention for members of Congress to avoid earmarks in the stimulus. The less pork there is, the more money can be distributed equally. And that cuts the repugs short if they try to make issues with preferential treatment for pet projects with such a huge amount of free cash being giving out.
February 12, 2009 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reality and facts have no effect on Republican behavior.
February 12, 2009 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
True. They would argue that a "." (period) doesn't necessarily mean the end of a sentence - it implys the sentence has ended.
February 12, 2009 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Check this out, from Louise Slaughter, about the claims by Republicans that they were shut out of the process. Talk about blatant lies:
Republicans shut out? Guess it depends on the meaning of "shut" and "out"....
February 12, 2009 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the link!
That was a perfect example of what John Dean said in his book, Broken Government. Of course, the roles were reversed - every where the Democrats let the repugs participate and add amendments they never allowed the Democrats to enter the room, much less comment.
February 12, 2009 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
As strange as this sounds, score one for Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK).
REally? I'm sure the only reason he removed the "Clean coal" provision is because he was pushing for "extra-dirty coal" plants.
February 12, 2009 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Illinois Republicans MAY have thought they had a chance to regain the Governorship in the next election but now that they've fought HARD to say NO to the Stimulus bill which means NO to FutureGen ---- they just LOST their chances.
February 12, 2009 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
According to NIRS.org, $50B for loan guarantees for both the nuke and "clean" coal industries was out as of late last night.
That's a relief.
February 12, 2009 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
ok, I don't see the clean coal provision anymore; it was in the Senate version pdf yesterday; so, what exactly is in the FOSSIL ENERGY RESEARCH section of the Energy Total?
I still see the 4.6 billion; that hasn't changed from pg 75 of that pdf Senate version of the bill.
February 12, 2009 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
"and virtually all of the mercury, sulfur and other pollutants generated in its burning"...this isn't an accurate statement. Air pollutants in CCS coal plants is projected to be greater than current levels, though I don't have the numbers on what specific pollutants will increase (the numbers are out there though...I don't want to do the research for you : )....)
February 12, 2009 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent catch, Elana.
Thanks so much for reporting on this issue as well as rail/transit.
February 12, 2009 6:22 PM | Reply | Permalink