Poll: Public Turning Against Stimulus Bill
A new Rasmussen poll shows that support for the stimulus plan appears to be falling precipitously in the last two weeks, since it became as heavily politicized as it is now:
Do you favor or oppose the economic recovery package proposed by Barack Obama and the Congressional Democrats?
Favor 37%
Oppose 43%
A week ago Rasmussen had a 42%-39% plurality favoring the plan, and a 45%-34% margin of support two weeks ago. Support among independents has fallen to 27%, unchanged from a week ago but down from 37% support two weeks ago.
So the Republican talking points out there against he bill -- too much spending, redistribution of wealth, stacking hundred-dollar bills on top of each other, etc -- appear to be having some measure of success.
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Josh
Matt
Eric
Brian
That's what happens when Dems don't go on the offensive and start framing the discussion on their own terms.
Haven't we learned this from the past eight years?
February 4, 2009 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, that's what happens when you put crap in a bill that doesn't belong there. Then the opposition can nit pick the bs and make you look foolish. That's the lesson to be learned by all this.
February 4, 2009 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Michael,
I agree with you and flufferwink, you're both right. The Democrats are constantly being put on the defensive by the Republicans, for real, for exaggerated, or for imagined charges.
It seems like everyday there's a new charge being carried by the media against the Dems, the stimulus, or Obama. Now Cheney popped up babbling about another terrorist attack.
Obama and the Democrats are handiling this like amatures, they're losing the game by a bundle and its only the first inning.
Christ, it makes you wonder who has the majority.
February 4, 2009 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is what happens when you essentially let the House Democrats, with their 20% approval rating, write this bill. Obama needs to put his foot down with everyone and get the bill h wants passed.
February 4, 2009 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
The dems did mishandle the bill in the house. The media is going after the low hanging fruit (as usual) by talking about the conflict over the bill NOT the bill itself or the economy and what the bill will do.
The people are led by Joe the Plumber(who had his own tax problems!!) and his black/white government spending is all bad.
In five years the media will be doing mea culpa pieces about how they missed how bad the economy was going to be blah blah blah. Just replay the iraq war tapes. It is keeping alive the serial for the media that's all.
February 4, 2009 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, this is what happens after 8 years where the national media has bent over for Republicans in the White House and in Congress.
That, plus an evidently far more organized and active public relations machine for so-called conservative causes.
February 4, 2009 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's like shooting fish in a barrel. The dems gave the republicans so much ammunition that it was easy. No amount of counter-spin can deal with some of the nonsense in the bill.
Obama already read the dems the riot act incidentally. I will be willing to bet that the bs is out when the bill comes out of the senate.
February 4, 2009 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
You mean the "nonsense" that adds up to a whopping 2% of the total spending?
If the Dems can't counterspin that, then they seriously need new leadership and better communications. I would have at least expected Obama's team to get in front of this when the media has been giving all their airtime to Repubs since last week.
Waiting for Harry Reid to show any leadership qualities is an exercise in futility.
February 4, 2009 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's actually 7/100ths of 1 percent, but who's counting. The problem is that the american public isn't paying that close of attention. Why waste a ton of time trying to spin and explain 7/100ths of 1 percent, when that money can easily be appropriated in the next spending bill. What's the harm in a little delay concerning 7/100ths of 1 percent when we need this stupid bill passed asap. It's not even worth wasting the air time on arguing about it or trying to come up with a counter spin. Cut it out and get the bill passed asap.
February 4, 2009 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
What I also should have said is that removing that less-than-1% or whatever isn't going to bring Republicans around. They're going to oppose it unless the bill is 100% tax cuts.
The notion that Repubs are going to jump on board by eliminating that tiny amount is ludicrous. They'll just find another dishonest reason for opposing it.
February 4, 2009 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
And then . . . . . you can shove it up their collective a**s politically for the few who oppose the bill, because there won't be many. Right now they are winning the spin war. Take away their ammunition and they will be shooting blanks and dems pick up more seats in 2010 and get a stimulus bill passed asap. It's a win, win and the stuff cut can be put in the next appropriations bill. There is plenty of time to get that stuff funded, it isn't critical and its dumb to put it in this bill.
February 4, 2009 4:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
obamaman says;
I wonder when Obama will learn that piece of wisdom.
The more Obama reaches out to these huns the more of his arm they bite off. He's becoming a complete disappointment.
February 4, 2009 4:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are a shining example of the stoopid American. Only 1% of the spending has been cited as crap by the Repugnants. So you oppose the other 99% With that brilliant analysis and solution you should pretty much oppose everything ever proposed. Because anything proposed that has a 1% negative component should be opposed. BRILLIANT! Have another stout, and please drink responsibly.
February 4, 2009 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
1. It's 7/100ths of 1 percent.
2. Where did I say that I opposed the other 99 and 93/100ths?
3. My point was why give them ammunition on crap and allow them to control the dialogue? That seems really short sighted and stoopid.
4. It's more important to get the bill passed asap, then it is arguing about 7/100ths of 1 percent that can be inserted in the next appropriations bill, where it belongs.
February 4, 2009 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe this is just what happens when Rasmussen does a poll. His numbers here are off everyone else's by 20 points or so, and that's the same spread in his Obama job approval polls, too.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html#polls
It's called an outlier, folks.
February 4, 2009 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wouldn't take these numbers lightly or even consider them an outlier. Rasmussen's politics are definitely to the right but he was damned accurate in both the primary and GE last year. His is the most recent poll - the other polls showing wide support are older. Even his poll from two weeks ago showed much more support. The GOP's PR (lies and distortion) blitz and the media's promotion of the GOP talking points are definitely having a negative effect on support for the stimulus. Right now, the perception is that this package has almost no tax cuts (Obama promised middle class tax relief so it's important that it has some) with most of the money going to rubbers and new sod for the Mall. That's a distortion and misperception but that's the way the less informed general public is starting to see this thing. And let's be honest...the package that came out of the House had a bunch of crap in it. That "crap" didn't amount to a whole lot of money, relatively speaking, but it was a gift to the GOP, who sold it to our gullible traditional media. The media isn't going to write stories about the money that will actually create jobs and provide those in need with assistance - ie, the bulk of the package - if, instead, they can write about the Dems allocating money to give away packs of Trojans to poor folks in the ghetto.
As for the Obama approval/disapproval numbers....Rasmussen's "approve" number is pretty close to all the other polls. He pushes leaners more than other polling units, which is likely why you see higher disapproves. Rasmussen's "strongly disapprove" numbers - ie, people who don't need to be pushed - are in line with the other pollsters.
There's no denying the fact that support for the package has dropped, perhaps significantly. Heck, if I wasn't as tuned in to the details as I am, and all I heard were the bits and pieces fed by the GOP and repeated by the media, I'd probably oppose the package as well. The Dems and the WH have done a shitty PR job here while the GOP, as dishonest as their efforts have been, have done a good job of hijacking the narrative.
February 4, 2009 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why are the dems so timid? They are getting beat with barely-based-in-truth rants...again. For fck sake, you have truth, brains AND the presidency...start effing communicating!
February 4, 2009 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
It may be that they're busy dealing with the issues, rather than flogging lies on the MSM.
February 4, 2009 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dealing with the issues doesn't mean much when you can't get anything passed in Congress.
February 4, 2009 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obey can't see past his own committee room door.
Pelosi has a tin ear.
Reid? Ha!
Kerry, Dodd, et al. are busy trying to corral Nelson, Landrieu, the lady Republicans from Maine - don't want to go out on record with something that could sabotage backdoor negotiations.
Obama got sidetracked with cabinet drama...he's out a bit more now, but how much damage is done?
Oh, and the corporate media HATE this bill. They're not being manipulated. They want it to be all corporate and high-bracket tax cuts. Because...um...they're all corporate and high-bracket themselves.
February 4, 2009 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
...and fighting back. Fuck these republicans...they're like amputees who still have muscle memory from their missing limbs, and they think they have standing to object. Obama, you gotta repeat like a mantra what you said to them on 1/23 when they were bitching about the bill - "I won."
I agree with what's been said about crappy democratic spin, but I think what's needed is a combination of better spin and a swift kick in every republican ass in sight, and a flipped bird in their faces when they turn around to see what just happened, each and every time they distort and stir shit. So fucking tired of these people. I thought victory meant walking all over them and not having to listen to their dissembling bullshit anymore...
February 4, 2009 5:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
37+43=80
What about the other 20? Are they undecided or are you fudging the numbers, Scott?
February 4, 2009 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
The rest have no opinion I believe.
February 4, 2009 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Have you never seen a poll before? The pro-con numbers never add up to 100.
February 4, 2009 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, when there's no effective counter-messaging, of course the Republican message is sowing confusion and thereby gaining traction. There isn't much time left for the Democrats to get this situation turned around. They're courting real disaster here for both themselves and, much more importantly, the country.
February 4, 2009 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is an object lesson for the Ds. In politics, you either define the opposition, or they define you. Please keep it simple.
February 4, 2009 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem is, the Democrats are NOT united. Because the Thugs are united in being obstructionists it makes it easy for them to obfuscate and lie about the bill. Because there are a bunch of Dems who question the merits of the bill there is no coherent message.
Obama is doing all that he can to understand the situation and get three massive economic plans done and thus can't be salesman in chief, which is what is needed.
February 4, 2009 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama needs a clear day of news to try and resell this thing. The Dachle thing really put a wrench in it. He needs to go to Congress as did Reagan to sell his Economic Recovery Plan back in '81.
http://reagan2020.us/speeches/Economic_Recovery_Program.asp
But honestly, does any of this polling really matter if the plan gets passed and the economy begins to turn around in a couple years?
Probably not.
February 4, 2009 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gallup says otherwise. I don't trust Scott Rasmussen. Have you seen him spewing out GOP talking points on FOX News?
February 4, 2009 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't trust Rasmussen's actual numbers either (I believe they use Rasmussen's bogus likely voters model- how is this even relevant to an issue poll?). But I suspect, or rather fear, the trend is real, what with the MSM constantly spouting Republican talking points and the Dems responding feebly or not at all.
February 4, 2009 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not so sure that Gallup's numbers disagree that much with Rasmussen's. Rasmussen asks straight up, "Do you favor or oppose the economic recovery package proposed by Barack Obama and the Congressional Democrats?" Gallup asks, "Pass as it stands, make major changes and pass, or reject entirely?" Those numbers breakdown to 38/37/17. Gallup's "approve as-is" is almost exactly the same as Rasmussen's. If you combine Gallup's latter two numbers, you actually have more folks against the package as it currently stands (Rasmussen's questions) than Rasmussen recorded himself.
People aren't against a stimulus package in general. And they know it's needed. What they're opposed to - right or wrong - is what was passed by the House. If Obama can work with the Senate to get this thing right, and then sell it well, support will swing back in favor of the package, a package that combines a large amount of spending with a smaller but significant amount of tax-relief.
But as somebody noted above, these polls will mean nothing if the stimulus has the intended affect. Still, you can't ignore these polls. Politicians are very tuned into and concerned about poll numbers and what's being said on the teevee. Numbers like this can scare them into pulling things from the package that really should be there, making the package less effective in the end. So results are most important but bad poll numbers now can reduce the likelihood of achieving those results in the future.
PS - As I noted above, Rasmussen - despite his right-wing leanings - was one of the best pollsters in the 2008 election season. And in many of those polls, he showed (correctly) the Dem ahead. I don't like the guy's politics but I think, for the most part, he's a pretty honest pollster.
February 4, 2009 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Gallup Poll
February 4, 2009 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Leave it to the Democrats to blow this after winning by a huge margin in November. Freaking pathetic and it's time to start looking for new and more effective leadership. I mean the country is in a nosedive and Democratic majorities in the House and Senate can't get a real and effective stimulus passed? It's like what Markopolous was saying about the SEC - you could drag the entire bunch to Fenway and they wouldn't have an f'ing clue how to find first base.
February 4, 2009 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, come on, Eric. This is really weak. A little context would be nice. Nate Silver did it better yesterday. You could have just linked to his article and saved yourself a lot of trouble.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/02/stimulus-still-popular-after-all-these.html
February 4, 2009 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eric is reinforcing the media narrative that the Dems are failing. He is empowering the media industrial complex. He should be ashamed. Who is paying TPM's bills now?
February 4, 2009 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe the reason it's losing support is not because the Repubs are getting their talking points across but rather because us progressives are getting sick of watching Obama put too much regressive rethuglican crapola in it.
February 4, 2009 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a shame his interviews got lost in the storm yesterday. He made a few points that I haven't seen written on ANY blogs. NOWHERE!
If people are interested in what he had to say, FFS write about it. Get a discussion going.
Having a discussion about popularity isn't gonna do a damn thing to turn this economy around.
If journalists gave a damn about this country they would write about something other than his admitting he made a mistake with the vetting.
Journalism looses again.
February 4, 2009 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
loses even.
February 4, 2009 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Loses through looseness.
February 4, 2009 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, I'm done looking at polls at least for another year.
February 4, 2009 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah iam going to have to go with what Nate said about this, http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/02/stimulus-still-popular-after-all-these.html#comments.
February 4, 2009 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Obama is a complete disaster. He has had 2 weeks and one day and everything is falling apart. Oh No! The sky is falling.
February 4, 2009 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I doubt this has much to do with Republican talking points or inadequate PR on the part of Obama's administration.
I would suggest, instead, that it has much to do with people realising that it's rather pathetic in terms of stimulus; that stimulus is only part of any road out; and that neither Obama nor his administration have charted any of the rest of the road out.
"Let's spend this trillion and see what happens. If it doesn't work, we'll try something else. It's better than doing nothing." This is what Obama and Dems are actually doing and saying. And it's not impressive, to put it mildly.
February 4, 2009 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You can't say "I doubt this has much to do with...PR on the part of Obama's administration" then say you aren't impressed with what Obama is saying.
February 4, 2009 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
not surprising, that's what happens when you dont sell the bill and allow the republicnas to define what is in the bill.
February 4, 2009 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course the stimulus bill is losing public support. The Republicans know how to play the game; they're all over television babbling about minor items making mountains out of them. For every one Democrat you see on TV you see 7 Republicans.
It isn't bad enough that the media is Republican friendly but the Republicans have their own noise machine; talk radio, think tanks, columnists, and all are out in force while Pelosi and Hoyer and the rest seem to be off somewhere fundraising so they can maintain their majority status.
Obama and the Democrats are acting like the Marx Brothers.
February 4, 2009 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nate Silver has a completely different take: The Stimulus: Still Popular After All These Weeks
February 4, 2009 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's what goopers do best. They can't govern, they haven't had an original idea in decades, but they can run a negative campaign against anything.
The Dems need to realize they need a slew of fast talking nitwits to crowd the airwaves like the wingnuts do.
February 4, 2009 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
As "mans_best_friend" has already noted, Nate Silver has already looked at the numbers and concluded that, despite the debate (largely dominated in the media by Republicans) the stimulus package/recovery bill hasn't lost substantial ground in most polling; Rasmussen seems to be the only one showing a "precipitous" decline in support. Nate also notes that it's the only poll that has favor/oppose numbers so close together...
I don't think the recovery plan is endanger of being jettisoned. Probably far from that. So, no need to worry about how the Republicans are "winning" this stimulus debate. They're not. The state of the economy will preclude them from winning any economic debate for awhile.
Republicans are, however, scoring myriad political points against the Democrats, and Obama, and winning the fight in tarnishing their reputations -- taking the shine off. But, I think Obama has seen the light (arguably later than hoped for; see remarks he delivered today). I think he's realized that he must grab the reins on this recovery package to steer it forward.
February 4, 2009 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mainstream media adopt the Republican frame almost always.
February 4, 2009 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Public Turning Against Stimulus Bill"
Why are we seeing this kind of Headline here, on this blog? Has TPM been highjacked by FOX?
February 4, 2009 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I swear I did not post this twice!
February 4, 2009 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Senate needs to get cracking and pass the damned bill--stay shuttered in the Senate until this is done. Until the bill is signed, the Dems are giving the Republicans time and space to criticize every damned thing.
Pelosi and the House got it done. Now it's time for the Senate to get it done--even if it means changing the cloture number to 55 as someone else has suggested.
The Senate has been a problem for some time--read about LBJ and what he had to do in the 1960s. I'm beginning to think that instead of an amendment limiting the Prez to two terms, we need one to limit the Senators to no more than four terms--or less.
February 4, 2009 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Everyone is looking around for someone to blame, and doesn't want to look in the mirror. Meanwhile, our President is taking responsibility, and admitting when he "screwed up".
I hope many here will agree with me when I say, for Goodness sakes, grow up America. You make one good decision, and now you think that's it, it's all going to be cookies and flowers from here on out? Sheesh.
My business had the worst month in our 20+ year history, and I am NOT blaming the Obama Administration.
Though I was happy for the political hay it made at the time, and I thought that Phil Gramm was the wrong messenger, he was on to something when he called us a "Nation of whiners".
February 4, 2009 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Public Turning Against Stimulus Bill"
Why are we seeing this kind of Headline here, on this blog? Has TPM been highjacked by FOX?
February 4, 2009 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even if the numbers are correct, that does not give us an interpretation as to what the numbers might mean. It doesn't necessarily mean the Dems have flubbed and the repubs have the public's ear.
It could simply mean that the recession having deepened, people are scared about the govt spending any more money. (or any number of other explanations)
Let's not read too much into numbers. And let's see if the numbers hold up. Seems a little early for Chicken Little to make an appearance.
February 4, 2009 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Publicans never left office.
February 4, 2009 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Shame on the Democrats for loading up the bill with all their unfulfilled desires that only made them look foolish. And shame on them for forgetting that the Republicans still know how to wield a megaphone and magnify blemishes.
Seems like the Democrats only know how to play defense. And the Republicans only know how to say no. Did the Democrats think FoxNews suddenly went away?
The Democrats should be out there talking about how a tax cut will not repair a bridge, or build a highway or do anything that private enterprise will not do, but the public need requires.
Hopefully, a decent bill will come out of the Senate.
February 4, 2009 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey all. Check out this interactive map on usatoday showing the impact of this package.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-02-03-stimulus_N.htm
February 4, 2009 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
They said that they were going to do that. Smart move on their part. I still think that you cut out the bs pork and then you have a bill passing overwhelmingly in the house and the senate. That will help the national collective psyche and give a boost to people as well. Any republican voting against, sans the pork, will be in deep sh*t in 2010.
February 4, 2009 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ohh good, thanks for the link. USA today, well well. Best general public knowledge thing I've seen in the MSM on this issue. Anyone can use it, see it compare it and there aren't any republican lies hanging off it.
February 4, 2009 5:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I definitely think an orgy of panic, recrimination, ankle-biting and a reminder that I was right all along that the sky is falling is the correct response to this poll, because, hey, I'm a Democrat and therefore that's my response to every kind of political adversity or piece of bad news.
Oh, and I also think a lot of whimpering about how hard it is to resist the magic dark superpowers of the Republicans is in order. Because, hey, that's what we do too.
February 4, 2009 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, you're happy with how the debate has shapen up so far?
February 4, 2009 4:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, I needed that.
February 4, 2009 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pres Obama needs to really come down on whomever drafted the parts of the bill that has nothing to do with stimulus.He shouldn't appoint a repugnican
to be over HEALTHCARE,big mistake.imho
February 4, 2009 3:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
First of all there is no way to prevent the Congress from working their particular form of parochial incompetence on a bill that spends this much money. Congress is full of stupid children who are so easily distracted from pursuing the national interest it is embarrassing.
Second, why would anyone expect this to be a popular bill. "There was a fire in the office so turning on the sprinklers was considered very popular." This bill is necessary, but not popular.
Third, the big problem we are facing is not being able to separate out our larger policy goals from the pure act of economic stimulus. Democrats, wandering in the wilderness for 8 years seem to want everything and they want it now. I worry that we are hopelessly muddled between stimulus bailout and
Fourth, unlike Roosevelt, Obama has had relatively little time to prepare for the calamity we are in.
Fifth, producing chaos is easy. Republican hyenas love it. It's not like they have been pursuing the national interest for the last 8 years. Why would they start now
Sixth, there is no united Democratic front. insert all the old jokes about the democratic Party here. Republican practice unity as a politic strategy. democrats think they are too good for politics. They just want to do what is they think is right (even when they have no idea).
Let's face it lot's of democrats want Obama to fail, too.
February 4, 2009 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
The BEST thing all day economides. THANK YOU. Republican Hyenas. Of all the names that is the most accurate description of them forever. And the rest is good too. The dems in congress need to put on their adult clothes, sit up straight and get with the program. Obama is the best thing that happened to ANY of them and they better get on board.
..............
February 4, 2009 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
The American Public. Stoopid to the end. Thank God smart people founded this country. The idiots that live here today would have f*d it all up.
I hope the US crashes and burns. I have no problems getting employed in Switzerland.
February 4, 2009 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some items in the bill may appear to have little to do with stimulus. But that's because it's not easy to spend a trillion dollars fast:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/04/business/04leonhardt.html?_r=1&ref=business
So politically those things may be a tough sell. But economically, they make sense.
February 4, 2009 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
The absurd part about the complaints about "unnecessary spending" is that under current economic circumstances it literally makes sense to pay people to dig holes and fill them in again. Depression rules are on. Any spending is good if it gets people into a job. Better to pay them to do something productive than unproductive, but paying people to do something totally unproductive is far, far better than tax cuts at getting the economy going.
Sure, maybe that doesn't make sense to that guy in a bar with a simplistic "you know what we oughta do?" solution for every problem, but I thought we agreed last November he wasn't running the country anymore.
February 4, 2009 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
It doesn't hurt that the Republicans have lashed all the marketing machine talent of their corporate base to this task.
This has been the GOP's method for decades: "we got nuthin', but we can sell it in a shiny new box!"
Conversely, "Sure, you need it and it's good for you, but do you want to admit you ever ate a salad? You're a poerterhouse-steak-nation! Well, aren't you, p*ssy?"
February 4, 2009 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
The idea that government never created a job (Micheal Steele, quoted, yesterday) is ludicrous. Government fills needs that private industry can't be trusted to do (Police departments) or make a profit at (Fire departments). In other words, government does the dirty jobs no one else wants or can do.
So, what company's going to fix this mess that these companies got us into? What company's got enough dough? As for tax cuts, if we eliminated everyone's (income and payroll) for a year, it wouldn't be enough, and if we eliminated them for an indeterminate period, the United States government would collapse...
Oh, wait, that's what Grover Norquist and his Quistlings who've signed the ATR 'No Taxes' pledge want to happen...and they're all ...REPUBLICANS.
Can't we just arrest them all for Treason?
Can't w
February 4, 2009 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm beginning to think that Michael Steele might make an even better running mate for Sarah Palin in 2012 than Joe the Plumber. His IQ appears to be even lower (and that's saying a lot).
February 4, 2009 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
We're so fucked it's ridiculous. Obama's "Bipartisan" meme has failed, not only in getting GOP votes, but also in losing the Narrative with the Public. On top of giving us a shitty, watered down Stimulus that doesn't remotely come close to our needs.
Then we have TARP 2.0 which looks horrorfic:
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/02/bad-bank-assets-proposal-worse-than-you.html
It's pretty clear that Summers is a thrall to the banking community and can not think outside of his own little box.
Big Bold Thinking?
My ass.
People need to lower their expectations:
* We're headed into a Depression
* Obama's Current Economic Team aren't the folks to keep us out of it
* the Dems are going to take a massive hit for this come 2010
It's entirely possible that the Obama Admin doesn't give a crap about 2010 and is instead looking at 2012. So many of their moves have been bad for Dems in Congress that one can't fail to draw that conclusion.
That McCain's Economic Team would have done far worse isn't uplifting. It's not just that this is *our* chance to Govern after so long in the woods. It's that the country *needs* Progressive leadership to break from the old box.
Instead, we have the box of people like Summers.
It isn't often that people get to leave their marks twice on history to the degree that Summers (and Rubin have). And history is likely to reem them out for their failings.
The sad part of it is that we have to live through it, and pay the price for their failings.
John
February 4, 2009 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maerketing? You mean like sexy Sarah Palin?
February 4, 2009 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eric - In your original post here you forgot to mention some of the more interesting GOP talking points to recently emerge as they throw the kitchen sink at this thing:
1. FoxNews.com has a column today claiming the bill will lead to MORE unemployment
2. The bill contains provisions that amount to a "war on religion" according to FoxNews.Com
The hits just keep coming ... And as for the complaints in the replies here about the right-wing message drowning out the Dem message ... Well, let's remember that the GOP has its own national news channel (FoxNews) and the useless MSM try to prove that they are NOT the liberal elite media by overcompensating with right-wingers.
The result? The U.S. economy sinks more & more and more working class folks lose their jobs. How does anything EVER get done in this environment?
February 4, 2009 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
well, 500000 new unemployed every month, well let's wait for another 6 months that would be another 3 millions job lost, maybe then people will realize how serious it has become...
February 4, 2009 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
So...after a full court press with fanatical support from the corporate media, the Republican war on economic recovery hath produced...wait for it...a 40/40 split with 20% undecided.
Not impressed.
February 4, 2009 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's all you need to stop something from happening.
We've lost the initiative because we have let the Republicans obsure the message of urgency and the public's demand that something be done..anything..but if you are the party of NO it doesn't take much to make things happen your way
February 4, 2009 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Gallup Poll reports that 75% of Americans want a stimulus bill passed
The Devil is in the details and the debate has become mired in those details - infrastructure too much too little? Has Obama bid against himself? Is he right to insist on a bipartisan approach? Infrastructure - "fix it first"? Pave highways? Build new ones? More money for mass transit? Stacked deficit bills?
etc etc etc
None of which the public really knows or cares to know much about...
I said it before I will say it again..Passing a bill is what is important not which of your pet policy proposals or bete noirs are in the final product
Get a product or hang
February 4, 2009 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
The public was opposed to the initial bailout, until it failed its first vote and the stock market immediately dropped 700 points. They then immediately started calling their reps demanding that they pass it.
Since the market has already factored the stimulus passing into prices, my hunch is the same thing will happen if it fails. People will scream, Republicans will fold, and it will ultimately pass.
February 4, 2009 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is the problem i have with Democrats in congress in general; they thrive in partisan politics which will ultimately doom their re-election chances in 2010.
Why do they have to load the bill with all sorts of pork? If indeed, the economy needs a stimulus as we are made to believe, why can't they just pass a bill with pork free?
I mean worked my heart out during the election for this moron in congress to get the job done, but all i get is another partisan wrangling from democrats.
Like the pundits always say "Democrats will be Obama greatest problem". The house bill is loaded with programs that are non-stimulative. It is time for Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid to get their Sh@$^#t together or else they should be booted out. I have heard enough of this nonsense.
February 4, 2009 5:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pelosi only empowered all of them when she immediately pulled impeachment off the table. This is like playing your trump card at the beginning of the game. She played the card and sold the rest of us who busted our butts to get them in there OUT. She sold us OUT (like Gore, like Kerry) and Reid followed suit. They should DEFINITELY be booted out asap and Pelosi should be investigated as to why she handed over the power to those corrupt bastards who are just going to walk away after this huge mess and millions dead. I say impeach Nancy Pelosi.
February 4, 2009 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
They shouldn't have done it anyhow but the pork equals .07% of the bill.
669 million of 850 billion or 669,000,000/850,000,000,000.
February 4, 2009 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama hit a homerun with this today:
"Obama said the criticisms he has heard "echo the very same failed economic theories that led us into this crisis in the first place, the notion that tax cuts alone will solve all our problems."
"I reject those theories, and so did the American people when they went to the polls in November and voted resoundingly for change," said the president, who was elected with an Electoral College landslide last fall and enjoys high public approval ratings at the outset of his term."
He nailed it. The Repubs lost because the ideas they proposed then and now are largely responsible for the current situation. Naturally, when has any Republican ever taken responsibility or been accountable for anything? All they shamefully do is blame someone or make some sort of personal attack. Heck, just yesterday Obama did something Shrub and Cheney could *never* have the fortitude to do: accept responsibility for the Daschle nomination and admitted the mistake.
February 4, 2009 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
CAN WE PLEASE NOT CARE ABOUT THE REPUBLICANS ANYMORE? STILL COW TOWING TO THEM. AN ILLNESS OF THE POLITICAL LANDSCAPE LIKE A CANCER THAT WILL IN FACT KILL THE PLANET. THIS WILL BE OUR REWARD FOR CONSTANTLY WORRYING ABOUT WHAT THEY WILL THINK INSTEAD OF CHARGING AHEAD AND DOING THE RIGHT THING--PLANETARY DEATH. BUT THEN AGAIN BIPARTISAN POLITICS WON'T MATTER ON A DEAD PLANET.
February 4, 2009 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
All granted, but more attention is paid when the >Shift
February 4, 2009 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I truly hate that we are compelled to vote for either spineless jellyfish with half a brain (D) or mindless, nativist, torturing, chicken hawk hyenas looking to steal everything within sight(R) in our country. I understand that Obama is hedging his bet by insisting on a bi-partisan stimulus bill. He should get out in front and tell the American people the truth about the politics. The hyenas want to run in 2010 on an 'I told you so' platform in the likely case our economy doesn't improve.
February 4, 2009 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do communications & PR for a living. I've written more polls than most people have read. First rule when reading poll results: What was the question asked, and I mean EXACTLY HOW WAS IT WORDED - what was the script. "Do you prefer Curious George Bush to Osama Bin Laden to lead the Us?" becomes "90% of the public prefer Curious George Bush to lead the US" in the press release. Next thing to remember is look at the pollsters history. Rasmussen is rightwing. PERIOD. When they thought Hillary was going to get the nomination, they jumped briefly on the Obamawagon. Now here they go. I now work in communications for public policy advoctes. Infrastructure is one of my policy areas. From colleagues to friends to family, every person I have spoken to wants the stimulus package to be enacted NOW. Yeah, let's pull out money for the Nat'l Mall & Hollywood but the middle class is saying to me & my unit - LET'S GO. Rasmussen should go suck Cheney's eggs.
February 4, 2009 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink