TPMDC
« Gillibrand Robocalls For Murphy In Special Election | Home | Conrad: Let's Kick Reconciliation Can Down the Road »

The Double-Standard Question Haunting Today's Detroit Announcement

President Obama is about to administer tough medicine to GM and Chrysler, giving them 60 days and 30 days, respectively, to formulate workable plans for financial survival -- in addition to securing the resignation of GM CEO Rick Wagoner.

Wagoner's departure hardly comes as a shock, given that the once-mighty General Motors began its current swoon under his stewardship. But Michiganders and Wall Street analysts alike are pointedly asking the same question Josh raised last night at the TPM mothership: Why did the Obama administration call for Wagoner's head but allow ineffectual banking CEOs to stay on the job and the government dole?

Here's how Rep. Thaddeus McCotter (MI), the third-ranked House Republican leader, put it to Reuters:

Mr. Wagoner has been asked to resign as a political offering despite his having led GM's painful restructuring to date. Mr. Wagoner has honorably resigned for the sake of his company's working families.

When will the Wall Street CEOs receiving TARP funds summon the honor to resign? Will this White House ever bother to raise the issue? I doubt it.

Henry Blodget, writing at The Business Insider, echoed McCotter's sentiment and wondered why Bank of America's Ken Lewis hasn't gotten the Wagoner treatment. Chrysler autoworkers also saw a double standard in the GM ouster, with one union leader remarking that Wagoner is the "fall guy."

But perhaps the most stinging assessment of the Obama administration's GM intervention came from the editorial board of the Detroit News (Michigan, if you'll recall, is a key swing state for the 2012 elections):

Dumping Wagoner lets Obama deflect attention away from Wall Street, where his Treasury Department is still moving through quicksand, and turn it on Detroit.

He can portray himself as being tough on the corporate executives who are ruining America, without having to draw blood from the bankers.

We have yet to hear from Michigan's Democratic senators, Carl Levin and Debbie Stabenow. If they too raise the specter of a harder line being taken with GM than with Bank of America and Citi, the dissatisfaction could boil over on Capitol Hill this week.

Late Update: Levin just told reporters that he believes there's long been a double standard for Wall Street and Detroit ... but that it's more important to focus on preserving the industry's health than on anything else. TPMDC has more right here.


89 Comments

| Leave a comment
user-pic

C'mon. I think there's a huge difference between those with finance expertise needed at the head of wall street firms--especially as most of them were not at the helm during the fall, as Josh pointed out--versus the head of an auto company where basic management skills are fairly transferrable (and, he's been part of the problem).

Michigan's politicians love the CEO b/c of contributions. Wagoner obviously hasn't made much headway in negotiations with the unions or creditors, or in reorganizing the company for the 21st Century.

user-pic

Right, I think it's a real apples/oranges comparison.

Rick Wagoner was a big part of the problem. By comparison most of the financial executives already bailed out with golden parachutes.

Another difference is that the financial institutions like AIG were basically gaming regulatory loopholes, but can adjust to different regulations to sell different financial products, or return to the insurance business entirely.

GM by comparison is essentially a creative company that puts out new products every year which embody a certain aesthetic vision. If a GM executive is really a truck+SUV guy and still doesn't get clean technology, doesn't get excited about the no-shifting planetary gears of a hybrid drivetrain or battery technology, then he never will. GM killed the electric car for example.

A last difference, is that while Rick Wagoner is a real clueless asshat, I don't think he's criminal. By comparison a lot of the players in the financial meltdown really are crooks and should be indicted.

user-pic

Yeah, this is a pretty bad post to headline TPM. It makes the site look shrill and not well considered. Wagoner has been the head of GM since 2000 and rode his company to the bottom over a number of years. Of course, he needed to go.

user-pic

It's TPM's headline because it probably echoes Paul Krugman. Whatever Krugman says is gospel here.

user-pic

The headline merely states the obvious thought that is on my mind this morning.

Shrill? You sound like villagers to me.

Those of us out here in the hinterlands understand pretty well that wall street "owns" the administration and Detroit does not... today's events just make that clear...

But one little headline that points out the hypocrisy and some folks get their undies all in a bunch.

Read the recent article in the Atlantic to understand how the financial class is so closely aligned with the political class that the political class is unable to act without its permission and cooperation... just like any banana republic, except worse:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice

user-pic

Seriously, many of us here have been pissed for some time over giving Wall Street money with no strings attached, no real guidance, and no real oversight. To see them actually influencing these auto companies like this is refreshing (given this bad situation) and begs the question: Why here and not there?

user-pic

Why here and not there, indeed. Keep in mind, however, that AIG is on its second CEO since the bailouts started. Should there be more? No doubt. And we still might see more of a hard line once the stress tests are complete.

I think what we're seeing is accountability only beginning to catch up with policy. Had the new administration started with Wall Street in the same place they did with the auto industry, which had received less attention from Bush and Paulson, the pace of the outcomes would be different.

user-pic

You are right. Of course, the lessons learned with the financial industry had to have influenced how they've handled the automakers. If they had been bitten by the automakers first, then they probably would have handled the financial companies a bit differently.

That, and remember that the automakers invited endless scrutiny when they instigated the debacle of flying in for handouts on private jets....

user-pic

I don't know what headline you read.

But when we posted these comment's Elana's headline was: "The Double-Standard Question Haunting Today's Detroit Announcement"

What's wrong with that? Banks and bank CEOs HAVE been allowed to fail and let go. It is not a double-standard.

Is the financial industry too close to politics? Sure is. So are pharma and defense contractors, as 2 other examples.

Do you and TPM want Citi and BoA's CEOs to go? Sounds like it. That's fine. But this was the deadline coming up for the loans the auto companies begged for.

The judgement day for the banks is coming up in April. This was announced by Geithner & Obama for weeks about the stress tests.

But TPM has been caught up in the 24x7x365 newscycles and not giving the Treas & Fed enough time to work through all the banks books.

user-pic

Exactly. I think the case can be made that this site and others made an editorial decision during the AIG scandal, and the aim of these stories has been to feed the flames ever since. That's what the objection has been to headines like the one this morning.

The sad fact is that the sources for hard liberal-leaning news on the financial policy has been dwindling in recent weeks. The new villain in the blogosphere is Geithner, so a lot of the blog reporting has been focused through that lens.

user-pic

The April time frame and "stress tests" will let us know something about the relative power of the two industries... until then...

"Why did the Obama administration call for Wagoner's head but allow ineffectual banking CEOs to stay on the job and the government dole?"

.... seems like a pretty damn good question to me.

I've heard we've shoveled a pile of money in their direction. I haven't heard that we are telling them how to run their lending business the way we are telling GM to run its car business (or at least demanding a new plan for how to do that).

user-pic

I agree. The April stress tests will tell us a lot.

But let me throw a question out there: was anyone ever doubting the greater political power of Wall Street v. Detroit? It's a bad situation all around. But if the policy outcomes are working to resolve the crisis but can't change the fundamental balance of power (a pretty tall order), is that Obama's fault? A lot of the commentary are treating tough decisions as if they somehow reflect the values of the administration.

user-pic

A much better question is why the shareholders of these companies allowed incompetent leaders to stick around. Is not the relationship between the owners and the managers of a company more critical than the managers and the government? isn;t the break of accountability of managers to shareholders much more serious?

So while Wall Street was being coddled apparently the heads of AIG, Merrill, Fannie & Freddie, Bears Stearns, and Lehman are all gone. I can't keep track of who else but I'll bet there are plenty. Lot's of calls for Ken Lewis' head, although it's not clear that BofA was in trouble until they bought Merrill, but I could be wrong.

Oh, and the people of the United States fired their chief executive, the head of the Treasury, the chair of the SEC back in November.

user-pic

The Atlantic's Simon Johnson says:
"If the IMF’s staff could speak freely about the U.S., it would tell us what it tells all countries in this situation: recovery will fail unless we break the financial oligarchy that is blocking essential reform. And if we are to prevent a true depression, we’re running out of time."

It is the time to bring in Jeffrey Sachs to transfer the US economy form Oligarchy to true Capitalism...

user-pic

I agree with you 100% Mike2!

user-pic

If we would recall timing of the TARP- it was under the Paulsen/Bush admin---NO CONTROL NO OVERSIGHT...No way to ask for resignations and frankly- no inclination from them..The ones that left were an aside! They mostly took the money and ran!

This is under the current Admin...they ask for a plan and got none...

user-pic

Yes, but here's a real problem:

Whoever deserves what, more or less, than any other is less an issue at play here. Whoever is a Greater Being, more or less, is not so much the biggest consideration based on current reasoning from the administration.

(BTW: Before anybody cries "troll!" please understand I was a staunch Obama supporter during the elections...K?)

What IS significant is that Geithner (and Obama and Gibbs and Dodd and a whole heard of others) defend allowing payment of bonuses to the very ones who cause the current economic crisis because they don't want to tamper with prior contracts....

I suspect that Wagoner worked under the auspices of a "contract." I likewise know that the UAW workers work under the auspices of contracts.

If you can renegotiate auto contracts (or void them completely), then you sure as frak can do the same to any or all of the gamblers who hold our fortunes in their greedy fingers.

Hypocrisy is hypocrisy, and doubly-so when seen coming from our "change" leader. I expect more of him and his administration and call him out where he falls short

Maybe this is the right move for the auto industry (said by a Michigan resident -- me), but I expect the same form of "tough love" for Wall Street, as opposed to the "[feeding] trough love" all those Goldman Sachs ex-employees lining Obama's cabinet are doling out to their financial kin.

user-pic

I think I could've set a watch to seeing this headline appearing on TPM today, after I saw the same thing on Huffington Post last night and realized that the "double standard" theme would be the message of the day. And in this case, the double standard is "haunting" us. Oh my!

I don't know much about McCotter, but I'm struggling to understand why the news cycle, especially on the blogosphere, took its first cues from a Michigan Republican. I'm also puzzling why the outpouring of sympathy for Mr. Wagoner didn't come when the Big 3 were taken to the woodshed in front of Congress earlier this year. Could it be that the AIG fiasco has just frayed all our wiring?

I'm still waiting for a more detailed analysis of the merits of the auto plan today, coupled with a few more months of hindsight into how the banking plan is working.

user-pic

Your comment is far too reasonable. Don't you know that Obama must be trashed for every decision that he makes, no matter whether the decision involves a stopgap measure, whether there are conditions attached, or whether he promises to change course if it doesn't seem to be working? And Republican criticism of the decision must be the lead in any story, no matter how wrongheaded or hypocritical the criticism or obscure the Republican (to be fair to TPM, they are only taking the lead from cable new in this regard).

Again, far too reasonable. I'm thinking of reporting for abuse.

user-pic

Le Abuse!

But it's not just the cable chatter today; it's the lefty blogosphere. Walk over to the Daily Kos and see the train of diairies and comments pouring their hearts out for the CEO of GM. Somehow our sympathy and common cause with the UAW workers has been conflated with the auto execs. It's an amazing feat, but one that suddenly seemed reasonable if the argument serves to oust the Wall Street execs, too.

user-pic

Despite being a staunch pro-labor liberal I've never had a lot of use for the UAW. They were the spoiled brats of the working class and there are a hell of a lot of workers in this country who deserve a lot more sympathy than the auto workers, who imagined that the industry hadn't changed since the 50s so they didn't need to change either.

user-pic

Fair enough, but isn't your sentiment part of the point some of us are also making?

When Obama had to endure that fake controversy over his laugh on 60 Minutes, recall that his moment of gallows humor was over the notion that the only thing more unpopular than bailing out the banking industry was bailing out the auto industry. There wasn't a whole lot of sympathy for any of the constituencies in Detroit, except for the workers who were going to be left in the cold, before today.

That's why I find all this sympathy for Wagoner amazing.

user-pic

Oh, me too. Wagoner is a horse's ass and a (not very skillful) liar. The response of the oversight board to his pathetic fantasyland "restructuring" proposal can be summed up as "we'd laugh our asses off except this isn't funny".

user-pic

I don't see sympathy for Wagner... I see a question about why the small fry like Wagner get chopped while the big fry like B of A and Citi CEOs get extra nice chairs at the table.

To read any of this as sympathy for Wagner doesn't make sense.

user-pic

Sympathy in the sense that the fate of Wagoner is being read as a larger reflection of the fate of GM as a whole, which seems to be new. Replace Wagoner's name with the phrase "auto workers" we suddenly have an echo of the populist call to action of the last few months (e.g. Washington cares more about people who shower in the morning than those who shower in the evening).

My point is that a lot of these themes from the blogosphere this morning have been a means to calling for the heads of the Wall Street--again--instead of a debate on the merits of today's decision. Why on earth anyone should be demanding that Wagoner stay on at GM is beyond me.

user-pic

Holy crap. If I'd heard that from anyone else, I would have felt a need to argue the point but coming from you, it has cred. (Yes, totally sincere and irony and sarcasm-free.)

Only thing I'd add is that the UAW and the U.S. auto industry are a classic example of becoming your enemy. Both ways.

user-pic

Two words: "jobs bank". That's what pushed me over the edge. Not that the execs weren't equally to blame for choosing labor peace (so that they wouldn't be disturbed in their comfortable slumber)in return for agreeing to such absurdly unsustainable practices.

But as liberal, I also have to make the point that the ultimate blame should go to a system of political economy in which workers have no security unless they have the leverage to wrest some (temporary) security from their employers in contract negotiations. This is another way, in addition to health care, in which our pathetic excuse for a social safety net actually hurts businesses quite badly. (Auto executives, by the way, should have started vigorously lobbying for national health care years ago, when they still had some clout; they knew perfectly well that health care costs were killing them. The piggish short-sightedness of our business class never ceases to amaze me.)

user-pic

GM is beset by the burden of retiree health benefits that they negotiated. The benefits they give the auto workers just come out of their salary. Both sides are free to negotiate a less costly plan.

user-pic

So, as part of this renegotiation, is the US gov't going to pick up a substantiual portion of the cost of the health care and pension like the Japanese government does? Is it going to increase the number of Japanese retirees so the worker for the Honda or Toyota has to support an equivalent amount of retirees as the GM or Ford worker does?

The hourly wages and benefits of the current GM/Ford worker are not that different than those of the Honda/Toyota worker.

But its ok to break the contract with the retired auto worker. Just don't mess with the contract of the banker that bought a CDS on a security it didn't own.

user-pic

TPM's whining over Wall Street and the banks is sooooooooo old and tired.

How many stinkin' times do you have to be told that the Fed & Treas are looking at the bank's books (stress test) before they allow more banks to fail?

And have you even kept track of the # of banks that have failed this year?

So to compare the many banks that were allowed to fail with 2 car companies in a completely different industry is being incredibly obtuse.

I just do not visit TPM as much any more because you are like the mouthpiece for Paul Krugman.

user-pic

THANK YOU!

I like Paul Krugman. I respect Paul Krugman. I do not, however, ascribe infallibility to Paul Krugman.

I have also been reading this stuff less and less, both here and elsewhere, mainly due to the shrill minority who are angry as hell because President Obama isn't liberal enough, or hasn't gotten around to cleaning up their pet corner of Bush's mess. This is going to take awhile, even for someone with the enormous powers of multitasking that President Obama seems to possess. Not everybody will be made happy. I don't expect everybody to be made happy. I do not expect the Obama administration to be perfect. I will gladly settle for good, and if that's not good enough for some people, that's too bad.

user-pic

LMAO every post is trashing TPM for that headline and this meme. I guess that is a consensus.

user-pic

I think it's the counterargument to the emerging consensus that had evolved between midnight last night and 8:00 this morning.

user-pic

Well, I'm certainly not going to defend it. While I surely think a much tougher approach to the financial industry, the easy fake equivalence of the headline is silly. A lot more of the managements of the big banks HAVE been replaced than had been happening at General Titanic up till now (as Josh has already pointed out.) And GM management and boards have been REALLY inept. It's been obvious for years that only a truly radical restructuring could save the company, but over and over again they chose to stick their fingers in their ears and yell "la, la, I can't hear you!" to reality. Well, reality is now getting its revenge. Does it suck that the working stiffs pay for the stupidity of the suits? Sure. But there's plenty of blame at that end too; the UAW was just as guilty as management of pretending we were still living in the 1950s.

user-pic

Didn't O win Michigan by like 17 points? Swing state I guess, but we will see...

user-pic

True, next year's election there will be a 'tell'. But, seriously, the auto industry has been living awhile with it's collective head in the sand. Unfortunately, they didn't do anything at all in anticipation of the future. Once again, short-sighted CEO's doomed the companies.

So, will Michigan's citizens blame Obama for giving a dismal prognosis with serious lifestyle recommendations? Or will they blame the CEOs/mgmt for eating only fats and skipping the veggies?

user-pic

I noticed this suggestion in Elana's post above that Michigan might somehow in play in 2012 because of this plan. Well... I'm just wondering how the national Republican Party, with Bob Corker and Richard Shelby at the helm, nominates a candidate that plays well in Michigan.

user-pic

I think the issue is that Chuck Todd is the only person in the media to report that Wagoner is the 4th bailed out CEO to be ousted during this recession, the other 3 were all financial industry "Wall Street" types including the head of AIG (deservingly). While there may indeed be a double standard, none of this "reporting" is accurate or detailed enough to really speak to the issue it's all knee jerk stuff and I think thats what people are upset about.

user-pic

Sure, but did he report on the REAL story? What was the size of O's teleprompter today?

user-pic

Merger of Finance Capital + Political Class = Dictatorship of the Looting Class

Definition: Looting class, noun

An aristocracy of wealth and privilege, usually inherited. Seeks to preserve and enhance its relative status by reducing its taxes, both income and inheritance. Does so by increasing the relative tax burden on the working class while reducing the commodity price of labor as near to zero as possible, often by exporting jobs to areas of even cheaper labor. Assumes that labor is a commodity input, the chief purpose of which is to help maximize speculative profits accruing to the looting class.

The core leadership and funding for this class are provided by the looting trinity of Big Guns, Big Oil, and Big Pharma (G.O.P.), with key coordination and enabling provided by Big Banking, i.e., by finance capital.

Big Banking receives its greatest returns by constructing paper Ponzi pyramids of derivatives (such as collatoralized debt obligations packaging sub-prime mortgages or Big Casino bets on numbers and trends, i.e., naked credit default swaps) based on astronomical, unregulated leverage ratios. Bernie Madoff's Ponzi empire is not an aberration; it is merely a subset of the larger national and world Ponzi economy of finance.

Labor, regarded as a mere commodity, is thought by the looting class to have no right to non-monetary benefits, such as health care, occupational or environmental safety, or reasonable amounts of leisure time. (If workers are permitted reasonable working hours and ample leisure and vacation time, they may find time to educate themselves and organize, rather than sit exhausted in the evenings in front a TV to watch the diversions and distractions provided by corporate media conglomerates, which of course are controlled by the looting class.) Such non-monetary benefits might reduce net profits.

The looting class seeks to preserve a system in which the workers are encouraged and even compelled to carry a huge burden of personal debt. The carefully instilled fear of losing one's job and facing bankruptcy helps to promote a docile work force disinterested in organizing to bargain collectively with the looters. Ever since the Reagan Administration crushed the Professional Air Traffic Controllers, the looting class has waged a full-scale, generation-long, remarkably successful assault on the working class as represented by organized labor.

Government itself is purchased and manipulated by the looting class as a vehicle for promoting the looting class's particular interests, and the concept that government should promote the "greatest good for the greatest number" is utterly alien to the looter.

The ultimate goal of the looting class is to create a one-party state immune to political or financial challenge. In such a state the Corporatist Party may have more than one wing, such as a Republican Wing and a Democratic Wing or a Tory Wing and a Labour Wing, but the looting class seeks to ensure that its essential interests are fully preserved no matter which wing officially wields political power.

The key precept of the looting class is the Corporate Golden Rule: he who has the gold, makes the rules. Profits are privatized, minimally taxed, and passed on to heirs. Losses are socialized and publicly funded. The looting class is relieved of all financial and moral risk. Risk (i.e., covering the looting class's bets on exotic financial instruments tenuously connected or even utterly unconnected to the real economy of goods and services) is transferred to the working and middle classes, which are taxed as necessary to cover the looting class's misjudgments and gambling losses.

Now is a wonderful time to be a member of the looting class--especially the American looting class--maybe the best time in human history.

And here is the looting class's key slogan:

Privatize all of our profits! Socialize all of our losses!

user-pic

I think the banksters get the message

user-pic

Doubling down on stupid...Come on people. If Johnny financially screwed up the country...
GM's CEO deserves to be fired! And so does the head of most financial institutions as well. We could do without most of the current members of Congress, while we are at it. We need fresh blood across the board!

user-pic

This headline and story might be a little over the top, but the sentiment behind it is not.

There is a general sense in the country, for good reason, that the financial guys are STILL playing by a different set of rules than everyone else. I don't disagree with Wagoner being canned. But I also see a lot of really crappy financial CEOs who presided over a complete meltdown who are continuing on nonchalantly (a few of them were brought in after the meltdown, granted). The idea that we really need all of these guys to fix the problem because they are the only ones who really understand how the financial system works is laughable.

And although I'm no defender of stupid decisions made by GM (Hummer, anyone?), I also think there's a double standard between what are considered white collar and blue collar industries. Let's not forget that the main reason the auto companies are currently in such trouble is BECAUSE of really smart finance guys at AIG and elsewhere, many of whom are still occupying their executive offices. ALL auto companies, foreign and domestic, are hurting right now because of the financial craps game the world's been playing for the last ten years or so, abetted by lax oversight.

Forgive my populist anger, but if I see financial companies getting federal money so that their employees can continue to drive luxury cars and get bonus checks that eqaul ten times my salary, I get angry.

user-pic

The "double standard" haunting the Administration?

As nearly every other commenter has pointed out, this is misleading. And I don't get the sudden love for Waggoner. He's been around for years, years during which it was painfully obvious that Detroit was sinking into oblivion. But now he's a sympathetic figure?

How about reporting about the role that many elected figures from Michigan played in propping up dysfunctional Detroit? Or are we just going to get the series of quotes about poor Mr. Waggoner?

user-pic

Not just that, but MANY banks have been closed this year alone AND CEOs HAVE lost their jobs.

Elana's posting is either intentionally ignorant and provocative to grab click-thrus or is incredibly misinformed.

user-pic

Elena,

Any chance you can look into what health care benefits the adminstration's automotive task force report wants Chrysler and GM to cut?

This is only vaguely implied in the news summaries available so far.

See my last comment here on a reader blog thread for a bit more.

user-pic

CT Voter,
The double standard is not the Wagoner got canned--he should have been fired years ago. The double standard is that many executives in financial companies that are receiving government money have an even worse record than Wagoner and should also be fired.

user-pic

Some of them have already been replaced.

I'm not going to defend executives of financial companies or banks, but were any of them at the helm as long as Wagoner?

user-pic

Who would those be, exactly?

user-pic

Ken Lewis.
Vikram Pandit.
Jamie Dimon.

For starters. Probably dozens, less easily located. These guys are the low-hanging fruit.

It always amuses me when serial posters of evidence-free pontifications about the evils of any blogger, journalist, economist or pundit who has anything critical to say about any given action by a particular administration suddenly get all interested in specific supporting details in someone else's comments.

user-pic

I love the coastal "Pro-Labor" liberals missing no opportunity to crap on the UAW. You're right, we do deserve to live like dogs because it's not 1950.


The headline on TPM is correct. The management of all of these firms - auto and banking alike - should've been removed months ago. Most of the Wall St gang should be up on charges, if not in chains.

Obama remains cowed to Wall Street, unwilling to confront them as the crooks and thieves they are.

user-pic

You don't deserve to live like dogs, but you also don't deserve to live as some kind of working class aristocracy way out of touch both with economic reality and with the reality of life for millions of other working Americans.

user-pic

Interesting that you find the solution to that situation to be to drag auto workers down to a lower level, rather than suggesting that perhaps we should be raising other people up.

Obama's speech today is supposed to call for "greater sacrifice" from the auto unions, after they've already negotiated away half their pay (for new hires) and let the auto makers off the hook on health benefits.

And all the while we're supposed to feel sorry for that AIG guy who whines that he has to make his $10K/month rent payment.

The real double standard isn't about CEOs.

user-pic

P.S. I live in auto-industry-dependent Northeast Ohio, not on either coast.

user-pic

Yes, I have to agree. When someone says they are "pro-labor" then attack the UAW, it is an oxymoron. The UAW has been taking concessions for a long time now. I don't know who this "working class aristocracy" is, is it the ones who make approximately $50K a year and get decent benefits? Isn't that a minimum we should want for anyone in the USA?

Shoot, the UAW has been making the right decisions and taking all the cuts (until the Obama Administration) to keep GM propped up.

user-pic

Neither liberal blogs nor the MSM can resist the insidious allure of a facile false equivalence that looks like inconsistency or hypocrisy if the details are diminished and shunted to the last paragraph. Especially when a Democrat is president. It's like a big ol' double bacon cheeseburger with MLT and grilled onions, with a shake and a side of fries. You know its basically toxic waste, yet you can't say pass it by.

And, as usual, the indulgence comes at the price of ignoring a real story, which is what it says that GM’s board continued to steadfastly support this bozo—the guy who continued betting GM’s entire future on obscene gas-guzzling behemoths with no “plan B” despite that big-ass hand writing dire warnings on the boardroom walls—for so long that Obama finally had to fire him, and a huge chunk of the brain-dead of board members, himself.

Big Finance’s management was epically awful. Their boards continued their “la-dee-da, another day, another breach of my fiduciary duties, where’s my check?” oversight year after year, as the executives turned the global economy into the world’s most intricate domino fall. But when the dominoes started to tumble, they did, in fact, have some accountability moments. The boards of Big Finance forced at least some of the worst offenders to strap on their golden parachutes and pushed off the corporate jet before they came begging to the government for help. GM, however, was an order of magnitude worse. For the last thirty years, GM’s entire corporate culture, from the boardroom to the cubicles, has degenerated into an ongoing campaign of massive resistance to the horrible, horrible change necessary reach profitability at some point in our lifetime. “Millions for lobbying against fuel economy, not one red cent for R&D!” “Gas guzzlers now, gas guzzlers tomorrow, gas guzzlers forever!”

user-pic

Amen.

user-pic

Someday, this kind of thinking will doom Exxon as well. Remember they are the ones that were funding the anti-global-warming think tank, and still love to cast doubt on any alternative to oil (though in their commercials, they are saints). Another American behemoth not looking toward the future....

As you say: “Gas guzzlers now, gas guzzlers tomorrow, gas guzzlers forever!”

user-pic

It is disturbing to see several posts villify Wagoner for ineptitude without any recollection that gas prices rose to $5.00 a gallon in the space of a few months last year at the same time that the availability of credit, which is essential to a capital purchase, virtually disappeared at the same time.

It is especially frustrating to read comments that assert that the inequality between Detroit and Wall Street (Wall Street is the source of both contingencies cited above) may be over the top in the face of these facts.

I will assume that readers will see that $5.00 a gallon gas and the evaporation of lease and finance are obstacles that neither Wagoner nor the other auto chiefs should reasonably be held accountable for.

When the anger arises this week, these two points will surely be the rational on which it is properly based.

On listening to Obama this morning, I surmise that the immediate problem leading to ouster has been an insufficient plan going forward, having nothing to do with poor leadership in the past.

I would hope that people see this as an important distinction, and I would remind everyone that the Japanese and German companies would be in similar straights were they not heavily subsidized by their respective governments or been allowed to establish non-union factories in the south that were able to eliminate pension guarantees to older workers.

user-pic

GM was completely inviable in its present form anyway and has been visibly deflating like a giant balloon for decades; those shocks just finished it off a little faster. Just think of it as a mercy killing.

Wagoner, like his predecessors, was utterly clueless and completely out of touch with the realities of the world auto market. Shed no tears, he'll live like a king off his golden parachute (which'll be fully funded up front, unlike empty promises made to workers.)

user-pic

Right, because the possibility that the price of gas would ever increase dramatically was totally unforeseeable. Global warming is a myth, new oil is being made every day and the Saudi's reserve numbers are totally transparent and accurate. Given that, it totally made sense to bet a big chunk of the company's future on Hummer in 2002. Squelching any research into fuel efficiency for fear that it would encourage Washington to increase fuel efficiency standards and spending vast sums of money lobbying against environmental and fuel economy standards was clearly in the company's best long term interest because there was no chance that the demand for monsterous semi-mobile caverns would ever abate. Mounting an agressive campaign of resistance to major shareholders and minority board members who quesitioned the wisdom of these policies also made a lot of sense.

user-pic

Of course, the flaw in your logic is that the Toyota Tundra and the Sequoia are best selling cars for a Japanese manufacturer. Unless you think it was the Prius that saved Toyota.

In reality, the only differences between the Japanese and German makers and the U.S. makers are the ability of the foreigners to completely evade pension responsibility, completely evade the cost of healthcare at home, an interest rate policy in Japan that gave it an unfair advantage in foreign trade at the expense of a domestic recession vis a vis the yen, sweetheart southern state local tax incentives and the luxury(?) of a non-union shop.

Certainly the vanishing availability of credit is something you can't ignore, having nothing whatsoever to do with gas mileage.

Then again, by September I think most people could see the handwriting on the wall concerning their ability to pay for new cars even if credit were extended.

I feel you when it comes to the inconvenient truth but it just doesn't have any impact on this particular issue.

It would help if you would either refute that point or come to terms with it.

If you are not willing to account for and explain why these advantages that I have outlined have had no impact on your premise then it is going to be difficult understand what point you are actually trying to make.

user-pic

While I agree that Wagoner should go I think the equivalence is *not* false and the same question should be asked of the finance executives that trashed our overall economy.

Wagoner should have been dumped by the GM board a couple years back.

But the whole Auto Industry bailout is around $20 billion so far. The financial industry bailout is a couple TRILLION if you include Fed actions or 'just' $700 billion if you consider only the TARP.

GM might also be able to survive without bankruptcy if not for the financial industries corruption.


user-pic

What about the banks that failed in 2009 already? You completely ignore those because you want the CEOs of Bo & Citi to go?

It is a false equivalency because when evaluating macroeconomics you cannot treat unlike vertical industries in the same way.

The way in which the fed intervenes with the financial systems HAS to be different than the way it tackles auto industrial manufacturing.

user-pic

You completely ignore that the CEO's of Bo & Citi are largely responsible for millions of people who are no longer able to feed or shelter their familiies.

And, since I'm guessing that most of us are not macroeconimists, perhaps you'd care to expand on your point with concrete examples.

user-pic

What leverage does the Obama admin have against Citi's CEO? Are they coming back for more $$ from the govt like GM was?

An economist will analyze the macro economy through segmentation techniques such as socioeconomics or vertical industries (industrial mfg, communications, fin svcs, entertainment, etc)

What works for 1 industry (industrial mfg) does not necessarily work well for another, say service-oriented industry.

An example: An industry like car makers will have a completely different debt-to-equity ratio average than a bank will. Different business models all together. They should not be looked at through the same prism

user-pic

Have some of you not been paying attention to who these ass-wipes are that are running the finance companies and banks. The particular current CEO may not have been the CEO of that particular company the last few years, but if you check any and all of their CVs, you will see that they were some big-wig somewhere else that promoted and sold or bought all of these bullshit securities to/from the banks they run now, and by the way, most of them have substantial histories with and loyalties Goldman Sachs and/or it alumni.

Oh, and the idea that management skill are easily transportable between industry-they are not... Okay, maybe HR is, but not guiding a company through an industry. The only skills that are effectively transportable are bad ones. Case in point--Nardelli, after he did a fine job in running Home Depot into the grown (before the crisis), he moved on to run Chrysler into the ground.

I take it that most of the above commentators have not be executives in a large corporation, otherwise you would understand this, or you are, and don't want people to think that someone should lose their job for incompetence, self-dealing or dishonesty. I was an executive in a major corporation and did not like the ways things were done, so I quit and started my own business which have been very competitive. I am happy and get to work on my own terms. People that work for me don't for long if they are incompetent of dishonest.

user-pic

"The idea that management skill are easily transportable between industry-they are not" ... so it's better to have someone in place who's a complete failure because he's got management skills inside that industry? The government had every right to dump Wagoner and they should do the same for Citi, BofA, AIG and others. The 1970s-era ideal that CEOS are "special" and privileged is complete garbage.

user-pic

Surely the sins of the auto industry pale when compared to those of Wall Street but Detroit is a much easier target for Washington's weak tinklers. The double standard is alive and well.

user-pic

Daniel, agree with the sins angle but Wagoner is completely incompetent and tied to the past, not the future. How many more jobs can he shed or how many more SUVs can he introduce before he's canned? Let's ALSO fire the CEOS on Wall Street, not defend Wagoner.

user-pic

I join those getting tired of (and very disappointed in) the increasingly shrill TPM headlines.

user-pic

The difference between Wall Street and the auto companies is that the geniuses on Wall Street are the ones responsible for the dramatic drop in car sales - not the other way around. Even companies like Toyota are reporting their first losses in 70 years. So why not fire them too?

What makes this so disturbing is the reason that it was done: because they didn't want to fire more workers and slash their pay to imitate non-unionized auto workers. This is another stop backwards for American workers.

Obama seems to have adopted Wall Street's view, which holds that all problems are ultimately traceable to worker's refusal to cut their wages and benefits so that Wall Street can enjoy a larger share of the economic pie. He seems oblivious to the fact that this view - that all economic problems must be solved by cutting jobs and wages - is the problem, not the solution.

user-pic

This may be the most ridiculous statement yet:

"Obama seems to have adopted Wall Street's view, which holds that all problems are ultimately traceable to worker's refusal to cut their wages and benefits so that Wall Street can enjoy a larger share of the economic pie. He seems oblivious to the fact that this view - that all economic problems must be solved by cutting jobs and wages - is the problem, not the solution."

It's quite clear that Obama, who has supported the greatest middle class tax cut and is supportive of the EFCA, that he doesn't care about American workers.

user-pic

That's how it is around here.

user-pic

I agree that the headline shrill and way too simplistic. Wagoner presided over the long-term denial of reality and decline of GM. Also, to move forward, a unions and bondholders must make major concessions, and Wagoner clearly wasn't getting very far with that despite considerable pressure.

Is that a double standard vis a vis banking CEO's? Wrong question - to think of a "standard" of firing CEO's is just stupid...each case must be evaluated on its own.

user-pic

I don't like government forcing CEOs of a private company to resign simply because their plan doesn't pass the government's muster.

For better or worse Obama politically "owns" GM now and that means for those political reasons he can't allow GM to fail. Bankruptcy means lost UAW jobs, a constituency that the Democrats need in their pocket. In other words if the government's plan doesn't work then they have no one to blame but themselves. If GM starts to go under for good then Obama will have no choice but to prop it up regardless of whether they are on the right track to recovery. I worry that it's a slippery slope for him.

What if people don't WANT to buy GM cars? What if the economy takes longer to recover than expected and people can't afford to buy cars? If GM takes the big plunge as a result, Obama will be forced to throw billions at the problem to keep them afloat because he has been dictating what their plan should be and who should run it.

Can't say I'm entirely comfortable with the prospects for that scenario.

user-pic

Another thing that some people seem to overlook is exactly who helped Obama in his campaign for president and who didn't.

Though the United Auto Workers didn't officially endorse a candidate - even when Obama seemed to have the nomination wrapped up - the UAW was always very close to Hillary and she carried Michigan, much to the consternation of the Obama camp.

OTOH, the crooks on Wall Street were some of his largest contributors:

Goldman Sachs: $955,473

Citigroup: $653,468

JP Morgan Chase & Co.: $646,058

Morgan Stanley: $485,823

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638

In politics, it isn't what you know but what have you done for me.

user-pic

I think it's just a political decision that lets Obama cozy up to the unions while two-timing them behind their backs. They figure it's a win-win.

But the hidden story here is the Italian company that's playing coy, trying to get the US to beg them to buy Chrysler. Check Fiat out, and take a look at what they pay new-hire UAW workers in other companies they own here in the US. It's pretty pitiful--something like between 11 and 13 dollars an hour, if I'm not mistaken. They're after as much of that bailout and stimulus package as they can get, and not just through Chrysler. I predict that once they get their hands on the bundle from the bailout, the honeymoon will be over, assuming they succeed in buying the company. Predatory companies like that are turning this country into a plutocracy like Mexico, with a much-shrunken middle class, and this economic disaster plays right into their hands.

And thank you TalkingPointsMemo, for not regurgitating the administration's talking points.

user-pic

Elana, I do not have time to read all the comments, but surely someone has pointed out to you that there is along list of fired, dismissed, and resigned CEO's on Wall Street and in the Banking industry as result of the financial debacle. What about, for example, the resignation of the CEO's of AIG, and of FannieMae-FreddieMac? Then there other people like the CEO of Washington Mutual, Bear Stearns, and so on. The list is actually pretty long. In future I suggest you tell the whole story. Your critique may still hold, but be be based on reality instead of a version of same.

user-pic

I have to wonder how much of this has been driven by Wall Street because of shrinking margins in the auto sector which translates to weak stock performance. Detroit has been trying like hell to compete but the deck was stacked against them.

The fact is Detroit has taken care of their own for a very long time and that was inclusive of the workers. Wall Street was the driving force that changed that equation. Not Detroit. Right now I suspect a lot of people would rather have a funded retirement than a 401K that has gone to hell. There was nothing inherently wrong with how Detroit did things. It just didn't set well with the Wall Street view of the world. Everyone knows you can't raise a family on $13 / hr but that is the ball park amount Wall Street has targeted as an hourly rate. With zero benefits. And all workers will be expected to fund their own retirement with a 401K that is continually at risk from Wall Street predators. I find it hard to fathom that some might think the system that has evolved is better that what we once had. I couldn't disagree more.

user-pic

For some reason, people seem to get much more emotional about the automakers than they do about the financial industry. The vitriol surprises me sometimes. A lot of people actually seem to WANT the US automakers to fail and would be disappointed to see them survive.

Mitch Albom has a good take on this topic in Sports Illustrated: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/the_bonus/01/07/detroit/

True, people are also mad at the banks, hedge funds, etc., but their anger seems to be more abstract and vauge. Perhaps that is because these are abstract and vague companies, while automakers are companies we physically come in contact with every day.

I teach at a university in Michigan, and I know many students whose parents have lost their jobs or will shortly lose their jobs. One of my 18-year-old students recently told me that his dad, who has worked at GM for 30 years, could have taken a buyout a few years ago but decided to stay on the job until his two sons had finished college. This is a good kid, who has done nothing to cause the financial crisis. I assume, from what he has told me, that his dad has worked hard all his life and just wants to retire with dignity and help his sons go to college.

I'm not saying that cutbacks aren't necessary, among workers and among bondholders (and I have no problem with Rick Wagoner or Nardelli being fired). Maybe my student's father needs to live with a smaller retirement. But to just throw this guy and his family away, like they're nothing seems wrong to me. I know I'm going to hear people saying, "Things are rough all over. Get used to it." And it's true, things are rough all over, but I think we need to keep the human factor in all of this in mind.

When the financial companies are receiving TRILLIONS of dollars compared to 30 billion for the auto industry, you have to step back and ask why there is so much anger directed at the auto industry. Yes, the CEOs have done some really stupid things (as I said before -- Hummers, SUVs, etc.) while also doing a few good things (Ford Escape Hybrid, Chevvy Volt). Maybe the US auto workers' wages were (and I emphasize the past tense) higher than those working in non-union, foreign plants in the US. But the workers like my student's father aren't the ones who wrecked the world economy. That was the geniuses at places like AIG and Citigroup.

user-pic

I felt absolutely giddy with excitement when Obama won. I have to admit that I don't get this one. He may be right about the GM CEO, but, surely, some of these folks on Wall Street deserve the boot too. In fact, today it is far more true to comment on the link between the U.S. and Wall Street rather than that between the U.S. and Detroit.

Our success depends upon producing something again that people will buy. Wall Street peddles paper over and over; Detroit actually makes something.

user-pic

The banking system is the lifeblood of our economy. The auto industry is an important limb, but one that we can afford to amputate without killing the patient.

user-pic

"The banking system is the lifeblood of our economy."

That's the sort of trite nonsense that Wall Street has drilled into everyone's brain. If the banking system is 'the lifeblood of the economy,' then working people are the 'lifeblood of the banking system.'

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." A Lincoln

user-pic

It's not nonsense. If you want to keep the analogy going, labor is the muscle, the tissue. Neither the blood nor the tissue are anything without each other. You want to play chicken-and-egg with them, knock yourself out. I stand by my statement and I think if you subtracted the banking system out of your life -- and I'm not talking about your account down at Hayseed City Bank, but every aspect of your life -- you'd realize that you'd be living in a hole in the ground, eating bugs without it.

user-pic

Old story in this country: banks rule!

user-pic

Wall Street execs have been fired - Prince at Citi, O'Neil then Thain at Merril Lynch, Cayne at Bear Sterns, Sullivan and Willumstad at AIG, Killinger at WAMU -I'm sure there were others too. Surely, some of these low lifes deserve to burn in hell for what they did, but that's another subject.

Waggoner deserved to be canned a long time ago. He's been a senior exec throughout the long demise of GM. I ain't too smart, but it has been pretty plain to me since the seventies that there would be a market for fuel efficiency. How many gas crises did these morons go through and they still didn't learn? Waggoner deserved it, as did the Wall Street types, but saying the latter haven't been fired just ain't so. They weren't fired by the Prez, because even their dumb ass boards had the sense to can them when things went south. Now that's a story worth writing a column about - why didn't the GM Board fire Waggoner?

user-pic

The simple answer is tribalism. Washington is full of Wall Street people, not car people.

user-pic

Wagoner has had this coming for a long, long time. GM has been out-classed by foreign car companies for years. Foreign companies have been more efficient, and made better products than U.S. car companies. GM does not deserve the same kind of bailout, and Wagoner is a big reason for GM's struggles.

Leave a comment

Advertisement
Please disable your adblocker!
Ads are how we pay the bills!

Subscribe

Josh
Marshall

Bio

Matt
Cooper

Bio

Eric
Kleefeld

Bio

Advertise Liberally
Share
Close Social Web Email

"To" Email Address

Your Name

Your Email Address