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Budget Update: House Passes Final, Final Budget
The complete Roll Call isn't posted yet, but the final tally was 233-193. The Senate votes next, and then all of it--including the threat of an October 15 health and education reform deadline--will be a done deal. I'll update this post when that happens.
Late update: House Roll Call here. As you can see, it got zero Republican votes, just as the House budget resolution got zero votes, and just the stimulus got zero votes. A complete coincidence, I'm sure. Seventeen Democrats voted no as well.
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Kucinich voted against the president's budget. I won't hold my breath for calls for people here to declare that he should get a primary challenge and be forced out of the party for disloyalty.
Oh, I forgot. Dissent from the left (Kucinich, DeFazio) = OK. Dissent from the right = Not OK.
April 29, 2009 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I for one am not prone to defending Dennis. Living in NE Ohio, I know him too well for that. He's a loon and a hack, and many of us also haven't forgotten that earlier in his career he relied heavily on blatantly racist appeals to his white ethnic base.
Having said that, there's a perfectly sound reason to be more upset about dissent from the right. As it is we have a hard-right-wing party and a center-right party in this country. Trying to drag the latter even further to the right is bad for the party and worse for the country.
April 29, 2009 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
My post is about one thing and one thing only: some people here want to oust every Democrat who doesn't vote the party line 100% of the time --as long as that dissenter is on the right.
But those same people remain silent when people like DeFazio and Kucinich don't vote the party line.
Why is that OK? Oh, I know. They're voting that way out of principle. It's possible to disagree from the left out of conviction and principle but if you disagree with the party from the right, it's ONLY because you're an asshole, corportist, DINO who doesn't give a shit about the party.
Recent polling has shown that only 40% of registered democrats self-identify as liberals. The remaining 60% call themselves moderates or conservatives. Yet, there are people who believe that that 60% (the vast majority of the party) is NOT entitled to a voice and/or representation in the democratic party and should be forced out.
That is just as stupid and self-destructive as what the republicans are doing to the more moderate members of their party.
April 29, 2009 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just told you why the two cases are not equivalent, but as always you're incapable of addressing actual facts and arguments. You just like to hear yourself bellow. Whatever, jerk.
April 29, 2009 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
A dissent is a dissent. What you told me was bullshit, as usual.
April 29, 2009 1:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well sure "liberal" self-identification is low, compared to precentages who identify with "liberal" values - the Right and mainstream media cronies have constantly beat the "liberals are commies and want to corrupt your babies" drum for the last 30 years.
Which would you expect to have a higher percent of people agree to a label of?
Swine eater, or bacon lover?
Insofar as dissent is concerned, it might surprise you to know that both Thurgood Marshall and William Rehnquist both dissented on more than a few Supreme Court cases.
Their dissents were in almost completely opposite directions, but you'd have me believe there was no difference between them.
Sorry, intent matters.
April 29, 2009 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
By the way, polls about labels (especially much-vilified labels like "liberal") are meaningless. Polls about positions on specific issues (eg. health care) tell a very different story.
April 29, 2009 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
How convenient to ignore facts when you disagree with them.
MOST democrats don't consider themselves liberals. This is backed up by the polling. I see it every day. I live in a heavily Democratic neighborhood; I volunteer for the state party regularly; most of my friends are Democrats.
I personally and proudly identify as a liberal but most of the Democrats I know don't consider themselves liberals.
So if asshole idiots like you insist on "purifying" the party, you'll be "purifying" it down to 40% of its current size. Good luck with that!
April 29, 2009 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again, it's stupid to obsess over labels. Look at actual positions on the issues and the story, quite consistently, is very different.
Are you actually capable of addressing any substantive point, at all, ever?
April 29, 2009 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
>>Are you actually capable of addressing any substantive point, at all, ever?>>
You first, junior!
April 29, 2009 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are correct, that most Democrats don't self identify as "liberal" when polled about it.
But the fact is, when the polling asks about liberal values, without skewing the results by mixing in talk-radio driven labeling, most AMERICANS lean liberal. Not to be confused with "liberal."
Heartland.
April 29, 2009 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. Another consideration is that progressives usually do this only when (as in this case) their vote is a meaningless protest vote, but will support a Democratic President when the chips are down. The same, unfortunately, is not true of Blue Dogs.
April 29, 2009 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Listen up, asshole. 10 blue dogs (and one liberal) voted against the stimulus. Their votes were not needed for passage. But you and others here went ape shit crazy screaming "primary them!"
Their votes were just as irrelevant as Kucinich's vote but Kucinich gets a pass. Total double standard.
Do you really believe the idiotic stuff you post here? Don't bother. I already know the answer. Of course, you do because you're an idiot!
April 29, 2009 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
You make such cogent and reasoned arguments (eg. "listen up, asshole"), I don't see how anybody can fail to be impressed.
Yawn.
April 29, 2009 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your first response to me was reasonable. I responded the same way. When you couldn't respond on the facts, you resorted to calling me a "jerk." Therefore I called you an asshole.
Well, I actually called you an asshole because you are one but your post just gave me a good opening. LOL!
April 29, 2009 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
You didn't respond to it at all. "Responding" means actually addressing the content. All you did was repeat your position and cite a useless poll that doesn't say what you think it does.
April 29, 2009 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kinda like you stop responding, wet yourself and run off when asked how we'll get ANY progressive legislation if we rid the party of all the people you consider insufficiently pure?
That question has been posed repeatedly for several months now but you NEVER answer. I know it's because your little pea brain has allowed you to think that far.
April 29, 2009 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's your anger that gets spread out here. It's tiresome. I don't see anyone here reacting as you claim screaming for dissenters to be 'primaried'.
I'd say the relevance of the entire republican members of congress voting lockstep against the budget deserves the primary focus rather than those dems who (for undetermined reasons) voted against. You assume what Dennis' motivations are when it may be something as simple as he knew it was going to pass but wanted to make a statement about one portion of the bill and this was the best way to accomplish it as now he gets to state why he voted against it and make his point.
I've liked a lot of things you've said but when you start raging and blaming you assume that you know what others are thinking or feeling and then start generalizing to "you all" and "most democrats" etc and then mostly just anger comes out so I just skip by your posts...relevant or not. btw...it's not one issue alone or one vote alone that determines which dems I would like to see replaced...it's by their history, attitude and rhetoric so as far as Kucinich is concerned the good overwhelms the bad by a huge portion...unlike Nelson or Bayh where just the opposite is true but wtf...this is a discussion board not a slug fest and I appreciate the opinions I read here even when I disagree...but the name calling, and condemnations just distract from the discussion and add an element of pettiness. But...who cares huh.
April 29, 2009 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let me make something very clear about where I and a lot of progressives stand with respect to the Democratic party. It is not a religion or a cult for us to which one swears loyalty, as it seems to be for FreeRider and as the GOP is for a lot of wingnut activists. We value it as, and to the extent that it is, a potential vehicle for progressive governance, and our goal is to bring that potential closer to reality. Don't like that? Tough. You still need our votes.
April 29, 2009 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
There you go again, laying out your motivation and pleading for my understanding . . . like I care!
I wish you would get over your crush on me. It's not reciprocated and you are beyond pathetic.
April 29, 2009 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
There you go again, grandstanding and bloviating all by yourself...like anybody else in TPM cares what you say at this point!
I wish you would get over this domestic abuse relationship you seem to have with reality-minded progressives at TPM. It's not reciprocated and you are beyond pathetic.
April 29, 2009 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, that's why you responded: because you don't care what I post or what I think. Remind me of a stalker I had once! LOL!
FYI, I don't have a problem with "reality-minded progressives." I have a problem with delusional progressives who are just as nuts as the right-wing and believe we could have a national party comprised solely of people like Boxer and DeFazio.
April 29, 2009 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I rest my case...
April 29, 2009 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Still trying to convince me how much you don't care about what I say, I see. Don't make me seek a protective order!
April 29, 2009 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
What makes you think I'm trying to convince YOU of anything? In case you haven't realized, other people are reading this thread, too. I find it interesting that in all this time nobody has spoken up in support of you.
But I'm sure it's much easier to pretend it's all about you. Do carry on.
April 29, 2009 3:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why do I think you're trying to persuade me? Ummmm. Perhaps because your comments are directed to me?
But then again, you don't care what I post or think. Remember?
April 29, 2009 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Still waiting for a call to primary Kucinich for voting against the budget.
April 29, 2009 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
How can all these Republicans simply turn over their thinking to party control? Don't think they owe their constituents any responsibility to assist in the task of governing? Their stunning self-interest is amazing. They can't win if the Democrats are successful, so their approach is to do absolutely nothing to help and hope things turn bad and the country votes them back in. They are giving the Democrats so many lessons in citizenship which I am sure will come back to haunt them one day: don't ever agree with the opposition and go to court over and over to avoid conceding an election.
April 29, 2009 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Looks like somebody forgot to take his medicine.
April 29, 2009 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would like to know who are these "some people here want to oust every Democrat who doesn't vote the party line 100% of the time." They sound like straw people to me.
April 29, 2009 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is a bit disingenuous. There has not been a minority-party House member who has voted for a budget resolution conference report since 2001, after the massive fight in 2002 between the D-held Senate and R-held House that resulted in no budget resolution being passed that year (for only the second time since the implementation of the Budget Act).
April 29, 2009 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink