ACLU: Obama's Speech Was Dazzling--Too Bad The Policies Suck
Without going so far as to compare Obama to George W. Bush, the ACLU thinks the President's deeds are out of step with his words. "We welcome President Obama's stated commitment to the Constitution, the rule of law and the unequivocal rejection of torture," said ACLU executive director Anthony Romero. "But unlike the president, we believe that continuing with the failed military commissions and creating a new system of indefinite detention without charge is inconsistent with the values that he expressed so eloquently at the National Archives today."
That's some pretty thinly veiled criticism. At issue is Obama's announcement of a system of so-called "preventive detention" for suspects who, according to Obama, "cannot be prosecuted yet who pose a clear danger to the American people." They will, apparently, be held for years, subject only to judicial and congressional oversight mechanisms that have yet to be defined. If you want to know how such a system compares to indefinite detention programs other democracies have used, Spencer Ackerman brings the knowledge. The left is not happy about this.
Josh
Matt
Eric
Brian
The folks on the left who complain that Obama is just like Bush can't see that they are EXACTLY like the wackadoos on the hard right. EXACTLY.
Ideological purity trumps common sense and practicality which is why they are completely incapable of governing or delivering on an agenda.
It's like having Ralph Nader or Pat Buchannan in charge. The purists would be thrilled but absolutely nothing would get accomplished.
May 21, 2009 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen to that.
May 21, 2009 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I second KateO!
May 21, 2009 6:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Welcome to the pack!
May 21, 2009 7:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, at least you're honest.
Welcome to the pack, indeed.
May 25, 2009 2:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
i wouldn't say obama is like bush, but he certainly is not beyond criticism. sometimes you people sound like irrational religious zealots, and all obama critics are heretics.
i don't know if things would be better with nader or buchannan in charge cuz i've never seen them in charge, but i've seen democrats and republicans in charge, and nothing gets accomplished.
May 22, 2009 12:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
I second Chadd's response. Many of those supporting Obama are no better than the bush devotees. No criticism is allowed, march in lock step, and follow our fearless leader's every instruction, for he is the anointed one (gosh doesn't that sound like the republican congress we just had?).
Many of the Obama devotees are hypocrites.
May 22, 2009 7:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Classic, transparent strawman. Saying that certain Obama positions and policies (indefinite executive detention, for example) are eerily reminiscent of certain Bush positions (indefinite executive detention, for example) is not the same as saying that "Obama is just like Bush." But it does make your "argument" much easier to make that way. Throw in a few names, like "wackadoos on the hard right," a few all-caps EXACTLYs, and a few references to Buchannan [sic] and, of course, the obligatory Nader, and you've got yerself one cogent li'l argument.
Or, at least, you think you do.
May 25, 2009 2:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
These guys need to look up the definition of "inertia". They think the government that Bush, Inc. left us with is the political equivalent of a cigarette boat. It's not; it's an aircraft carrier. It has taken eight years to get where we are, and that cannot be undone in four months.
May 21, 2009 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think I expect the ACLU to think in terms of what is politically practical. I mean, if we're talking about a blogger, or a politician, I would expect those persons to consider their actions in terms of practical effect and try to bring about their goals through tactics that actually understand the political terrain and understand that by pushing too hard, or in the wrong way, you can end up with nothing. The ACLU on the other hand I expect to bring about their goals by suing for them. The ACLU is one of the few organizations in a case to actually alter what is politically practical, instantly, whenever it wins a court case. This doesn't always work, but we won't know how much is possible unless the ACLU or someone like them is out there trying.
May 21, 2009 3:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, it worked out great for all those schizophrenics and psychotics they freed from all those mental hospitals. Now they're homeless schizophrenics and psychotics, free of medication, housing, sanitation, and health care. Yay.
May 21, 2009 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Holy shit dude! When did you turn into a neocon? You are fucking preaching the Reganite gospel now?!?!
May 21, 2009 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
A neocon? What the hell are you talking about? Has everyone at TPM gone totally nuts? I need to find new friends. This place is whacked.
May 21, 2009 6:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not to worry! They'll be sure to evaluate the assortment of promised health insurance policies, choose the correct one, pay their premiums on schedule, and file for their tax credit a year later.
The ACLU isn't standing in the way of truly universal healthcare. Two political parties are doing that.
May 21, 2009 7:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, actually the ACLU is partly responsible for mainstreaming the mentally ill in an ill-conceived and disastrous way. The ACLU makes mistakes too. Mainstreaming is their stain. Believe me, I know.
May 21, 2009 7:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ideological purity vs pragmatic stasis. Principled stance vs machiavellian expedience. If these bifurcations are all we have to frame the discussion, then the public discourse will be nasty, brutish and short. No wonder the great unwashed want to remain clueless.
May 21, 2009 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who are the unwashed in your litany? Just curious.
May 21, 2009 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
The 50% (on average) of Americans too discouraged or apathetic to vote.
May 22, 2009 9:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
So what, exactly, is it that the ACLU thinks we should do with people who a) were captured on the battlefield, b) had extensive training in how to slaughter people in Bin Laden's training camps and c) still say they hate us and want to kill us and yet, d) are not linked to any indictable offense?
May 21, 2009 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why don't we just murder them? Obviously they're all guilty of something and/or will become guilty of something (because our President and/or dutiful Congress assures us this is so). Lets just line 'em up single file, say 5 at a time, and perforate their brains with an M16. The whole lot should only take an hour tops. It will save the cost of keeping them in cages indefinitely and we can start worrying about important things like health care and climate change.
May 21, 2009 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, I was thinking we could just put them up at your house.
May 21, 2009 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
...in which NCSteve finally goes completely off the deep end and echoes well-worn GOP talking points in a futile grasp for some kind of a rejoinder...
May 25, 2009 3:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
They ought to be treated as any enemy POWs at the end of hostilities.
May 21, 2009 8:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please describe the process by which we know that the people in question are a) were captured on the battlefield, b) had extensive training in how to slaughter people in Bin Laden's training camps and c) still say they hate us and want to kill us and yet, [somewhat mysteriously] d) are not linked to any indictable offense.
I suppose we could just trust the government. But then, we could have done that in 2001-08 too. And some did. They just mostly didn't frequent this blog (SFCWallace an exception of course).
May 25, 2009 2:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dear ACLU: I appreciate everything you do and all, but instead of yelling, why don't you PROPOSE AN ALTERNATIVE.
May 21, 2009 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
You can't make this stuff up. Obama v Cheney and who do you all trash? - the ACLU. Cheney wins. He's done exactly what he set out to do - intimidiate the hell out of you.
May 21, 2009 7:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the sentiment for the ACLU here is "put up or shut up." I don't think anyone here is intimidated by Dickhead. We are actually all in this together, it's just how we climb out of the rathole that we differ on. Peace.
May 21, 2009 7:36 PM | Reply | Permalink