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CCR: Obama Embraces Indefinite Detention, Not Meaningfully Different From Bush

President Obama's speech touched on a number of significant and controversial national security policies--but perhaps the two most important were his proposed plan for dealing with Guantanamo detainees and his outline for reforming the State Secrets privilege, which may well become an issue when some of those detainees are tried in U.S. courts.

Civil libertarians and human rights activists won't necessarily be pleased. Shayana Kadidal is the senior managing attorney of the Guantanamo project at the Center for Constitutional Rights. He says the administration's plan to maintain a system of military commissions is deeply troubling.

Obama said, "detainees who violate the laws of war and are best tried through Military Commissions," perhaps implying that the detainees in question were arrested on a genuine battlefield. Kadidal has his doubts. "I'm suspicious of the idea that he's going to use it so narrowly," he says. Many detainees were arrested not on a battlefield, but in their homes, and along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, and yet they may find themselves before a military commission anyhow.

More troubling, according to Kadidal, was Obama's embrace of preventive detention. "Finally," Obama said, "there remains the question of detainees at Guantanamo who cannot be prosecuted yet who pose a clear danger to the American people."

You can read the rest of that portion of Obama's speech below.

Kadidal says that, in reality, there should be no such detainees--even detainees who have been tortured can be tried. "Traditionally our system has enver allowed the executive to detain somebody indefinitely."

As noted in this post, Obama promised to reform his administration's use of the State Secrets privilege. That, too, Kadidal said, is incomplete. "What's missing there is a judge. What's missing is someone who isn't from the President's own political party or his own administration."

These sorts of concerns may have been why, when CCR's executive director Vincent Warren left yesterday's meeting at the White House with Obama and other rights advocates, he had some harsh words. "The president was very open to hearing CCR's concerns on a range of Guantanamo policy issues, but I came out of the meeting deeply disappointed in the direction the administration is taking and I don't see meaningful differences between these detention policies and those erected by President Bush."

I want to be honest: this is the toughest issue we will face. We are going to exhaust every avenue that we have to prosecute those at Guantanamo who pose a danger to our country. But even when this process is complete, there may be a number of people who cannot be prosecuted for past crimes, but who nonetheless pose a threat to the security of the United States. Examples of that threat include people who have received extensive explosives training at al Qaeda training camps, commanded Taliban troops in battle, expressed their allegiance to Osama bin Laden, or otherwise made it clear that they want to kill Americans. These are people who, in effect, remain at war with the United States.

As I said, I am not going to release individuals who endanger the American people. Al Qaeda terrorists and their affiliates are at war with the United States, and those that we capture - like other prisoners of war - must be prevented from attacking us again. However, we must recognize that these detention policies cannot be unbounded. That is why my Administration has begun to reshape these standards to ensure they are in line with the rule of law. We must have clear, defensible and lawful standards for those who fall in this category. We must have fair procedures so that we don't make mistakes. We must have a thorough process of periodic review, so that any prolonged detention is carefully evaluated and justified.

I know that creating such a system poses unique challenges. Other countries have grappled with this question, and so must we. But I want to be very clear that our goal is to construct a legitimate legal framework for Guantanamo detainees - not to avoid one. In our constitutional system, prolonged detention should not be the decision of any one man. If and when we determine that the United States must hold individuals to keep them from carrying out an act of war, we will do so within a system that involves judicial and congressional oversight. And so going forward, my Administration will work with Congress to develop an appropriate legal regime so that our efforts are consistent with our values and our Constitution.


22 Comments

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This is a tricky gray area between War and Law Enforcement...It's naive to say that all of these people can be tried in civilian courts, just as it is ghoulish to suggest we detain some people as long as the "War on Terror" continues (perhaps forever). So where to strike the balance?

I'm not sure. As the President says, it is the "hardest issue we face".

If the CCR doesn't see a "meaningful difference" in the Bush vs. the Obama approach to these issues, he's either being disingenuous or he's not as smart as I thought.

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"they" are being disingenuous, or "they" aren't as smart as I thought...Sorry.

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I think saying that Obama is no different from Bush is the fastest way to label oneself, and one's organization, as loony left.

I'm not pleased with the steps Obama is taking on these issues. I want more. I want those who attempted to make torture somehow legal to pay the consequences for their actions. But if the chances of doing anything get derailed because our insane media environment labels it as "Obama caving to the crazies in the party", thereby handcuffing the Administration from really working through these dilemmas, nothing will really ever change.

And as I said before: human rights groups ought to be pressuring Congress, in addition to voicing their deep disappointment with this president. They also might want to consider the fact that they had such a meeting in the first place. Wouldn't ever have happened under Bush or a President McCain. This is not to suggest that human rights groups be grateful for whatever scraps Obama doles out, either. But there's instransigence on both sides of this issue, and intransigence isn't going to solve anything.

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I think saying that Obama is no different from Bush is the fastest way to label oneself, and one's organization, as loony left.

Comparing Obama to Bush where appropriate and where such comparisons are scoped to specific issues is not loony. It's critical and honest. There's no reason to have to avoid using the names Bush and Obama in the same sentence other than by grace of some loony quasi-religious superstition or a blind, irrational devotion to one or the other.

"....I don't see meaningful differences between these detention policies and those erected by President Bush." That's hardly the raving of a loon. It's a statement of someone who's perplexed by the incongruence of what Obama said about Bush's poicies and what Obama does with his own policy. It's also a sentiment shared by many who are distressed by the path this president is taking.

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I appreciate your comments.

As I said, I'm not thrilled, and I'm hardly a blind Obama adorer, but the emphasis on Obama, while necessary, isn't sufficient: get the pressure on Congress to do something. Otherwise, Obama's going to take the most prudent path politically, and that's obviously not going to satisfy those with grave concerns.

50 some Democrats completely buckled to Republican pressure yesterday. Obama is out there on his own when it comes to dealing with the aftermath of the Bush Administration. And apparently he can't really count on Democrats to help out.

I don't buy his argument that confronting the actions of the Bush Administration is a "distraction". But after yesterday's total flop by Democrats, I can understand it better. And I can't propose a solution to any of this.

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"Obama is out there on his own when it comes to dealing with the aftermath of the Bush Administration. And apparently he can't really count on Democrats to help out."

If he's on his own, it's because he's put himself in that situation.

In his first big interview after becoming president, to an audience of millions just before the Super Bowl, Obama not only missed the chance to lead, by telling the American people the truth that the majority of those imprisoned at Guantanamo -- overall and among those still there -- were innocent, he actually fed into the right-wing lies that have created the current debacle. He said something that with a one-word change could have been uttered by Dick Cheney:

"we’ve got a couple of hundred of hardcore militants that, unfortunately, because of some problems that we had previously in gathering evidence, we may not be able to try in ordinary courts –- but we don’t want to release."

Garbage! Only two dozen of the 251 prisoners then remaining have ever done anything that posed a significant threat to the United States, and he knew it then.

He has not worked with Congress to get a unified message to counter the right-wing lies that was completely predictable, and visible within two weeks of the inauguration. Instead, he fed into the lies.

He wants to be seen as the noble, clean benevolent king floating high above that icky Congress. So he gives yet another speech with lofty language in tony surroundings -- and it includes, among all the "American values" b.s., the announcement of his intention to legalize preventive detention.

I invite anyone who wants to fling around dismissive language at commenters who are rightly unhappy with Obama's actual policies to look at the history of democracies in which preventive detention has been used. Imprisonment with no charge or review strikes at the very heart of our legal system. It effectively ends the rule of law.

If you think it will stop with "those people", you haven't read much history.

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Good for you. Stand up for the rule of law.

Make such a ruckus that Obama will find it politically useful to say FU to civil libertarians, and adopt positions that are even closer to those of the previous Administration.

You will at least have an untroubled conscience.

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"I'm suspicious of the idea that he's going to use it so narrowly," he says. Many detainees were arrested not on a battlefield, but in their homes, and along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, and yet they may find themselves before a military commission anyhow.

I don't get this. Maybe I read it wrong, but the President separated the detainees into five groups. How do we know which group contains the "many" detainees that were arrested in their homes vs. the battlefield? To me, this is seizing one sentence in a long and complicated speech to freak out over.

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This brings up a question: Has this president formally disavowed the previous administration's language portraying the entire world as a "battlefield"?

I don't know the answer. But if he has not, then characterizing the CCR's reaction as "freaking out" is just a wee hyperbolic and the "long and complicated speech" was a tool to obfuscate the fact that literally anyone this president or a future president deems a "threat to the United States" is subject to indefinite detention without charge.

Again, I hasten to point out I don't know the answer. But without an answer, there's cause for grave concern.

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I agree that without an answer there's cause for grave concern, but I also think that hard questions deserve thoughtful consideration before an answer is reached. I'm not obfuscating. I'm wondering how one can reduce a speech that covered, in my opinion, a wide range of issues (from Guantanamo to rule of law to governing principles to oversight to politics) to a single line that wasn't well received. I think the fact that he's identified 5 different groups of detainees is a hint that they're thinking about it.

But here's another question. If there is a group that are, essentially, prisoners of war--that is, a group of people fighting us in Iraq or Afghanistan--they haven't committed a crime based on U.S. statutes. They were soldiers--enemy soldiers, but soldiers. So, we can't exactly try them in our criminal courts. Their side doesn't have any of our people, so we can't do a prisoner exchange. There's unlikely to be any kind of formal end to the "war on terror", so it's not like we can hold them until it's over. But if we just send them back to where they came from, they pose a legitimate danger to our troops who are still there. So, what do we do? If you have an answer, I'd like to hear it, because I have no idea.

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I was characterizing the president's speech as obfuscation (assuming he does believe the world is a battlefield) -- not your remarks. Apologies if that wasn't clear.

As for your question, I say we bring the troops home. I know that consigns me to the "loony left," as other posters would label it. But really, we're not going to be rid of these issues unless we rid ourselves of the conceit that we can be policeman to the world, or that troops from a largely Christian country can occupy largely Muslim countries, and the inhabitants of those largely Muslim countries will be fine with it.

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It is incorrect to say Obama's position on "indefinite detention" is "not meaningfully different" than Bush-Cheney. First, Obama is voluntraly submitting to oversight by the other branches. Second, Obama is narrowly applying this practice and limiting it to only to a handful of people who a) are a clear threat to the U.S. and b) who cannot be tried. What would you propose doing w these detainees instead? It is unfortunate that such a practice must be employed but it appears necessary under the circumstances.

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how is it looney, you call names and say they are looney. What is the problem with their arguments?

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When the end result is the abdication of due process and the rule of law, the differences are indeed meaningless.

What I find most disturbing is Obama's political popularity gives cover to these revolting policies. So you have liberals that were outraged at Bush for what is essentially the same means to an end argument, readily embracing Obama's diet Kangaroo justice.

Ultimately the bogus "War on Terror" framework is further reinforced, and to our peril.

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The most dangerous, and abusive Bush policies are being cemented by Obama. The Imperial Presidency can only be reigned in when people start to push back against the arrogance of Obama claiming he alone decides who will be imprisoned indefinitely, who can be tried for War Crimes, and who can not. Wars can be declared by the President alone, we don't need declarations from Congress anymore. Civil rights are meted out by Obama in the way that he sees fit.

Bush pushed the envelope on executive power, and now Obama is cementing these abuses, and unconstitutional actions.

What is the worst thing is that just because Obama is doing it, many, many Democrats will rush to defend the exact same actions that they criticized Bush for.

I laughed at the acronym IOKIYAR (it's OK if you're a Republican)

we need a new one for Obama: IOKIYABO

There is a huge group of posters here who will rush to point out: IOKIYABO

It makes me sad to think this is "Change We Can Believe In"

I want my money back, King Obama

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Anyone who thinks there isn't a world of difference on civil liberties between Bush-Cheney and Obama is, frankly, nuts. Looney Left, indeed.

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what is the world of difference? you offer nothing, no evidence, not even a single solitary example to back up your comments. Sure, he SAYS different words, but what are the different actions?

I've read tons about the similarities from Civil Rights organizations, and advocates.

All wbgonne brings to the table is name calling "loony left" "nuts"

and the ever popular, hackneyed "grow up"

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And you bring "king Obama". Why not call it even?

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boo fucking hoo

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Feel free, then, to describe in detail all (or at least a few) of those obvious differences. With all the daylight between them, it should be a piece of cake.

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"What I find most disturbing is Obama's political popularity gives cover to these revolting policies. So you have liberals that were outraged at Bush for what is essentially the same means to an end argument, readily embracing Obama's diet Kangaroo justice."

This is the type of nonsense spewed by Glenn Greenwald and the Looney Left. Grow up.

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I agree with that.

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