Poll: 28% Of Republicans Are Birthers, 30% Undecided
A new Daily Kos/Research 2000 poll finds that 77% of Americans believe President Obama was Indeed Born in the United States, with only 11% saying he was not -- but there's no clear verdict among Republicans.
Among Republicans, it's a much weaker plurality of only 42% who say Obama was born in the U.S., with 28% saying he was not, with a very high undecided number of 30%. Among Democrats, the number is 93%-4%, and among independents it's 83%-8%.
This means that for Republicans to openly admit that Obama is indeed a natural-born American citizen, they risk alienating a significant chunk of their loyal base. And on the other hand, they could scare away independents by humoring the tin-foil hat crowd.
Late Update:: Another thing to point out is that Birtherism is heavily concentrated in the South. Only 47% of Southerners say Obama was born in the United States, 23% say he was not, and 30% aren't sure.
Josh
Matt
Eric
Brian
it's remarkable how solid that hardcore 28% of mouthbreathing republicans is. that figure has been consistent for years now.
July 31, 2009 9:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not thoughts exactly. There is some type of pyscological study crying out to be done on these 28% ers. I wonder who we could get to earmark it?
July 31, 2009 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
This reminds me of when I was reading Al Franken's book Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot. I was standing in the kitchen. He was describing actual academic research done on Dittoheads (I can't remember who did the research or why), and how the Dittoheads were operationally defined in the research. Then Franken says, well, some of us have another term for Dittoheads. We call them "Fucking Morons". I literally fell to the floor I was laughing so hard. This was way back in the old days, no left wing blogs, no opposition or counterweight of any kind to Talk Radio.
Here we are in 2009. We have another term for the Birthers…. As far as the Late Update goes, what a surprise!!! Seriously, it's amazing this country has even survived in the shape we're in now considering the percentage of fucking morons we have in our population. I doubt there's anything that can be done about this confounding and deeply disturbing fact of American life.
July 31, 2009 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
And this is precisely what I don't understand about the mainstream media.
It's been quite clear for some time to the non-28% of Americans, that Dittoheads/birthers/Kool-Aid drinkers are, in fact, morons. Some of us may have even figured out that these morons were long ago coalesced into a voting bloc by Satanic cynics like Karl Rove. I know, I did.
So, why does the mainstream media keep sending over this narrative, that somehow, these pathetic dregs represent "basic American values"? As if we should always be genuinely worried about what they think or do?
Not being naive (I hope!), I do realize that corporate media has a vested interest in promoting both GOP and Village agendas. And that the right, in turn, has a vested interest in fluffing this base of American assholes. I guess my question is really: how the hell do they keep getting away with it?
July 31, 2009 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only possible conclusion seems to be that the media believes Americans are stupid?
July 31, 2009 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
More like: they are hoping the American people will be stupid.
Watching Hardball now. New Republican meme: it's the Left-wing media's fault for giving the 58% of Republicans who are "unsure" about Obama's nationality a "platform"!
"Responsibility", for these perennial GOP victims, is for poor Black women on welfare.
We made them do it. We made birthers important, you see. So if this whole birther thing is a disgrace and an embarassment, then we're the ones who are required to be disgraced and embarassed. Certainly not them.
If I were a TV network, the GOP wouldn't get 10 more seconds of face time, ever again, for any reason, period. Because whatver they were in 1952 or 1972, they are a FRINGE ORGANIZATION today.
And when the Brent Bozells of the world started screaming like stuck pigs... well, he wouldn't get on the air, either, so really, who gives a shit?
July 31, 2009 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
This reminds me of the recent polling in Texas after their christo-fascist guvnur Perry started his succession talk. The polls found that the Republicans in Texas were divided 50/50 on wanting to leave the US and form an independent country. I was shocked at the time to learn that half the repubs in Texas were COMPLETE TRAITORS TO THE UNITED STATES! This polling on Birthers gets to the same point that the repubs are a bunch of very stupid uninformed people. They just got a new Creationist to head up the Texas school board as well. Being a good liberal I always give others the benefit of the doubt with their opinions, but when others are WILLFULLY STUPID it is hard to care what the hell they think.
July 31, 2009 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know what kind of idiots responded to a similar poll in the LA Times today, but it was at 35.8 the last time I looked.
July 31, 2009 11:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's the Crazification Factor:
http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2007/01/repost-crazification-factor.html
July 31, 2009 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
And we care about the beliefs of the wingnuts WHY?
July 31, 2009 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Re: "Among Republicans, it's a much weaker plurality of only 42% who say Obama was born in the U.S., with 28% saying he was not, with a very high undecided number of 30%."
And of those 58% decided/undecided,30% are chimps, 7% are urangutans, 2% are spider monkeys, 5% are sloths, 21% are dodos (doom on you) and the remainder are identified as drool.
August 5, 2009 7:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
The 'Birther Conspiracy' Backfires on the Right-Wingers
http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=7944
July 31, 2009 9:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
OK, Don. This one was pretty good. I knew you could do better.
July 31, 2009 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
In other news, 34 percent of Republicans believe the earth is flat, 36 percent believe Einstein's theory of relativity is a fraud, 39 percent believe that people once coexisted with dinosaurs and 54 percent don't believe in global warming.
July 31, 2009 9:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think all of those numbers may actually be low. No snark, I think that reality may have outrun satire yet again.
July 31, 2009 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder what the figure would be if you polled people on whether or not they believed he was a Muslim. Secret or open, doesn't matter.
I'd imagine the number would be roughly equal to the 28% in this poll.
July 31, 2009 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not to mention that the numbers seem eerily similar to that stubborn-support group for GWB while he was in office regardless of any of his policies.
July 31, 2009 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem here, at least with respect to the Birthers, is the word "believe."
I'm not sure anyone believes there's any question to Obama's citizenship. (Okay, a few people must.) But since the whole purpose of the movement is to, essentially, troll Obama's entire presidency (the rare non-internet troll!), of course people who genuinely dislike Obama are going to tell a pollster they "believe" it. Not all of them, but many of them.
It's why you can never get good polling data on where Americans stand on evolution. (And at least there is some meaningful percentage of people really, truly, actively do believe in some non-evolutionary system or other.) People are very, very conscious these days of how polls work, and a lot of us can't help but "game" the polls in real time, knowing full well that the polls are being commissioned by people looking to slice and dice the numbers so that they can be fed right back to us, thereby changing our opinions. The feedback loop is getting pretty loud, and thus you get these kinds of numbers.
We can pretty much trust the polls that tell us how satisfied Americans are with Obama's performance. All this poll tells us is what percentage of people who DON'T like him are inclined to take a literalist view of poll questions.
July 31, 2009 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you take a look at the crosstabs, you'll also see that the regional breakup is also stark.
I think it was only about 50% of the South thinks Obama was born in the US (that might be off). The rest of the country is up around 90%.
I can't find the poll on DK now for some reason...any chance you can update this story with a link to the poll/post directly?
July 31, 2009 9:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Remarkably close to John Rogers' famous 'crazification factor' of 27%, the percentage of people in our country who are clearly just plain ol' batshit insane:
http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/lunch-discussions-145-crazification.html
July 31, 2009 9:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
I doubt that figure will get any lower. Even with the Right-wing denouncing the birther movement, they will take it as a wink wink nod nod it's still a legitimate unanswered question. It's pure racially motivated hysteria. Makes for good material on late night though.
July 31, 2009 9:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
The new litmus test for lunkheads.
July 31, 2009 9:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Look, I'm an old lit major so my math is a little shaky, but doesn't this invalidate all the new polling? I mean 28 percent of President Obama's unfavorable number exists in this through the rabbit hole world where he isn't even an American. 50 percent of every GOP call in the south thinks he isn't even an American. How does that skew the models? Shouldn't the new Polling include a baseline question of do you think the President is an American Citizen. Because if they answer no to that, then nothing else they say is valid? Because they can't approve of his job if they don't think he is actually president. Right? Does that make any sense. The secondary questions to "is the President the President" are based entirely on the first question. How is the President doing on the economy, Good, Fair, Bad. He isn't the President to these people so what are they going to say, good? Ask Republicans who actually believe he is President. I think we have to preclude all participation form people who think the President isn't the President.
July 31, 2009 9:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
They still get to vote, amazingly enough, so you have to count'em/
July 31, 2009 10:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
i like the 4% of dems who don't think he was born in the US. i wonder what percent of respondents don't give a shit about where he was born either way.
July 31, 2009 9:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
i like the 4% of dems who don't think he was born in the US. i wonder what percent of respondents don't give a shit about where he was born either way.
July 31, 2009 9:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
doppelganger!
(i only hit submit once, honest.)
July 31, 2009 9:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's 100%; that 4% is statistical noise. And at some point we're going to have to wake up to the fact that the majority of "independents" polled are the Libertarian black helicopter crowd who will believe any conspiracy theory that supports their worldview.
July 31, 2009 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, a good portion of independents are thinking people who don't fall into lockstep with either of the two major parties and who find being affiliated with certain members of the partys' leadership akin to enjoying a good swim in the cesspool. The number of independents grew substantially as the Bush years ground to an end. Clinton also worked the same kind of magic back in the '90's.
July 31, 2009 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Does this mean we can openly call then knuckle draggers without feeling concerned about backlash?
July 31, 2009 9:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I know, I need to get a sense of humor, but since when does Kos care about what the Republican base thinks about Obama? It should be a given that many of these people think the guy is practically a terrorist. Making a poll out of it is ridiculous.
July 31, 2009 10:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mateo - In addition to poking fun at the GOP, this poll clearly illustrates just how insane a large swath of the GOP has become. It shows that 83% of the coveted Independent voters know this is ridiculous, and that makes the GOP look like a political clown car. At the very least, it will serve to shorten the length of time we have to deal with this distraction on the cable news channels as the incentive is strong for the GOP to shut it down.
July 31, 2009 10:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. There is a segment out there that is just completely insane. And, frankly, I am not surprised -- at all -- that it comprises of 28% of the Republican Party. With people like Coburn, Inholfe and Isakson as their leaders, this is expected.
I would rather Kos -- and progressive groups -- spend some resources getting the people in the center-right to understand that, "Yes, Medicare works. Yes, Medicare is a government program." I'm very nervous -- despite our large majority in the House and, well,massive majority in the senate -- that we're not going to pass a bill that affords universal health care. So, making fun of the GOP base, at this point in the dialog, seems unnecessary and, well, foolish.
Those folks are never coming on board. People who work for a living and don't listen to Rush everyday, though, need to be brought up to speed on the universal health care need.
July 31, 2009 12:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's a very good reason to look at these numbers, Mateo - they absolutely quantify a very important electoral fact, which is that the people who are more predisposed to oppose everything Obama does come mostly from one part of the country - they are not distributed equally throughout. This is useful for political and policy reasons, because it tells you (and hopefully the more sensible, moderate politicians everywhere) that you are not as much under threat of rampant birtherism (and thereby irrational obstructionism) as other polling or talking heads on TV would want you to believe.
Now, you may say that this isn't necessarily new - perhaps not. But it is another data point, and a strong one at that, which illustrates just how different the South is from the rest of the nation. Me, I think it's quite significant.
July 31, 2009 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keep your cotton pickin socialist hands off my Medicare!
July 31, 2009 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Priceless.
And proof that it's not "guvmit innerfearance" when you are the recipient.
July 31, 2009 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmm. Southerners don't want to admit the legitimacy of a black man elected to the highest office in the land.
Why am I not surprised?
July 31, 2009 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bill Maher wrote an editorial on this for today's LA Times http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-maher31-2009jul31,0,622151.story?vote48379954=1
Here are are couple of excerpts:
"Which raises the question: Why, in this country, is it always the religious right that won't take anything on faith?"
"So far, the reaction from Democrats is to laugh this off, and I understand why. If you seriously believe that President Obama is an African sleeper spy, get out of your chat room and have your house tested for lead."
"Lou Dobbs has been saying recently that people are asking a lot of questions about the birth certificate. Yes, the same people who want to know where the sun goes at night.
And Lou, you're their new king."
"That's why it's so important that we the few, the proud, the reality-based attack this stuff before it has a chance to fester and spread. This isn't a case of Democrats versus Republicans. It's sentient beings versus the lizard people, and it is to them I offer this deal: I'll show you Obama's birth certificate when you show me Sarah Palin's high school diploma."
Okay, more than a couple. Actually, I'd be satisfied seeing Palin's college grades from the six schools she attended.
July 31, 2009 11:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
LimoLiberal,
The problem is too often democrats simply laugh things off. Birthers are stoking the flames of hate and intolerance. In the end, i guess republican stupidity is good for democrats, but what about the long term effect.
July 31, 2009 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maher mentions this specifically and uses Whitewater and the Swiftboating of John Kerry as examples. I totally agree with you.
On one hand, as an intelligent human being, you, I and the Democrats want to simply brush this off as insanity. However, we cannot think "inteligently" about this, we have to think "realistically" and face the stupid. So sad, but true.
July 31, 2009 11:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
THIS
July 31, 2009 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
IS
July 31, 2009 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
SPINAL TAP (?)
July 31, 2009 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would venture to guess those same 28% believe that Native Americans are better off because they were the object of extermination the first 200 years of this nation's existence.
Why"
Because these folk get 100% of their "news" from the "commentators" who are shilling and making fortunes from the less informed and rigid people who are elated that their views are accepted and supported by... by... well... other uninformed and rigid people who are being persecuted because of their "christian" beliefs... IMHO
July 31, 2009 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
That data point means that 92 percent (92%) of all republicans have an IQ lower than 10 !! Consistent with rhetoric and programs....
July 31, 2009 11:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
What is 58% of basically nothing?
July 31, 2009 11:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Congress members who signed the birther bill should be asked to show their birth certificate, since evidently they believe obtaining an original birth certificate is so easy. Maybe TPM should ask them for it. And they should also have to define "natural born" as part of the bill. And define citizenship, does a girl have to be a certain age for her child to be born a citizen? Let's get it all in one bill.
And while we're getting information, could we get McCain's navy records?
July 31, 2009 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Southern birthers should furthermore submit evidence that they themselves were actually born in the US, since a scant 145 years ago they were claiming not to be part of it.
July 31, 2009 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
the msm, setting the agenda by the gop talking points, fox news and the like of rush, must have just figured out barack obama is an african american.
58% of republicans, living in the south, do not believe he was born in the united states. birthers, deathers, muslim, socialist = racism.
the good ol' orwellian gop knows how to manipulate the press and play the pea in the shell game con. "oh look, it's halley's comet!"
July 31, 2009 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let's call that racial profiling. After all, has anyone ever raised this sort of birther questions regarding Obama's white predecessors in recent history?
It's really ridiculous that they are focusing on Obama and not John McCain who was born outside of the US.
July 31, 2009 11:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ethnicity is everything to the Birther conspiracy. It dove-tails perfectly with the campaign claims that he was a secret muslim/lying in wait to turn us into a Salifist theocracy, etc.
You ask yourself, 'Even if he WAS born in Kenya-- which he wasn't-- what real-world implications would that have on his Presidency? How would it effect him doing his job?'
Reasonable people would say that it wouldn't, of course.
Republicans and Birthers would come up with some variation of him getting exposed and immediately dawning Muslim garb, brandising a crescent sword, tearing up the constitution, and scheduling the stonings of non-believers on the White House lawn.
Nobody in the birther movement says that, but Hey, far be it from us to tell you what to talk about amongst your friends and relatives in the privacy of your own homes!
July 31, 2009 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Besides the fact that he wouldn't be eligible to be President, meaning every bill and executive order he's signed is invalid?
There's another subtext going on here too, with the birthers. Hitler wasn't a German. Obama's not an American. Therefore Obama=Hitler.
July 31, 2009 12:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
But what percentage of these people think Hawaii isn't in the US?
July 31, 2009 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Andrea Mitchell, for one.
July 31, 2009 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
And Cokie Roberts of "Obama's vacationing in an exotic locale" i.e. his home state of Hawai'i
August 1, 2009 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
The South: America's village idiot.
July 31, 2009 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
All national poll results should provide, in addition to the overall "national average" figures, two separate sets of results, one for the South, and one for everywhere else. It is clear that the concentration of far-out wingnuts is drastically higher there, skewing all "national" results toward the lunatic right.
If it seems too "regionist" or whatever to single the South out in this way, then report separately on the South, the Northeast, the Midwest, and the West. We can do the math ourselves.
July 31, 2009 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Having lived in GA for the last 9 years, I'll vouch for that.
July 31, 2009 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, I thought the percentage among the GOP might have been even higher. All that is left of the GOP is racists and the obviously under-educated that cling to the tripe of Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck. What would you expect? They simply cannot stand the fact that the United States has a President that is not a priviledged white male clinging to a strict fundamentialist God, the flag and guns. They feel completely inadequate in the presence of a Constitutional scholar, professor, and intellectual that can speak in complete sentences and explain complex ideas.
July 31, 2009 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
My opinion is that people have latched onto the birther conspiracy as an outlet for their racist anger. The birth certificate is just a smokescreen for the deeper issue of racism. The fact that the poll shows concentrated opinions in the south makes me believe that even more. I live in a fairly rural area and people here who anonymously post comments on the local newspaper's website have an irrational hatred of President Obama. Saying he's not "eligible" to be POTUS gives them an acceptable way to express their hatred since they can't publicly vent their outrage that a black man is in the most powerful position in the world. As racist as they are, they would never want to be called one.
July 31, 2009 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is there something about rural living that brings this out in people? The rural areas here in Ohio are absolutely solid for bush, Palin, Rush, the whole crew.
The near-total overlap among rural areas, fundamentalist Christianity, and extreme right-wing politics fascinates me. My question is, why are these three seemingly disparate things so inextricably linked? What is Christian about right-wing extremism? Why does living away from a city lead straight to religious fundamentalism for so many? Why would authoritarian types want to live in the middle of nowhere?
Given that this city-country divide seems to occur in every state, with the three-way linkage mentioned above invariably present, it must stem from something inherent in human nature. Do we know what it is?
July 31, 2009 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would say that you're onto something, except that Vermont is 99% rural and pretty solidly liberal Democratic. New Hampshire (right next door) is 99% rural and pretty solidly independent (swinging blue lately).
July 31, 2009 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking only from my own observations of my rural area, I think it stems largely from lifelong exposure to people of the same mindset that has cultivated for generations in nearly the same locale. The Confederate spirit is very much alive and well here and is defined as a white vs. black issue. It is still probably 90+% white and any other ethnic groups are viewed by some suspiciously and with disdain. Many of them go to church doggedly, but exhibit very little Christian behavior as defined by "the golden rule." They fight among themselves over petty and ugly "inner church" issues. I think fear that Obama may allow "blacks to take over" (I've actually heard this said) has driven the new guns-in-bars-and-public-parks legislation to pass. Education does not seem to be a factor, because many I know hold advanced college degrees alongside these irrational beliefs.
I moved here 4 years ago after working in several places in the mid-west and D.C. over the past 25 years. The racial and cultural divide here truly mystifies and disappoints me. Just a few minutes ago I received one of those anti-Obama emails from an acquaintance citing a few out-of-context quotes from Obama's books. They just won't give it up. Truly sad. It makes me want to leave an otherwise wonderful place to live, even though much of my family lives here. I'm happy to say that -most- of them are Democrats (whew) and voted for Obama.
July 31, 2009 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Birthers are dumb-ass wankers. Ninety-eight percent of them would give their right arm to be ambidextrous.
July 31, 2009 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know a "birther" in Nashville, Monica a realtor. I said why don't you believe Obama was born in America? She said, "I don't know, I wasn't there." That is the egocentric ignorance we are dealing with. Yet Monica and the Southerners don't question the birth of George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, first George Bush, Ronald Reagan or Richard Nixon. Wonder why?
July 31, 2009 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's no point in treating these individuals like rational humans. The GOP's version of a "big tent" includes birthers, Apocolyptians, anti-evolutionists, moon landing deniers, demonic possession believers, White supremacists and a broad assortment of flat- and hollow-earthers (but please, let's not mingle issues like gun control, federalism or abortion into this mix, where reasonable minds can differ).
These are people who are simply impervious to facts, in contrast to the purebred liars who whip up the mob's frenzy though they know better. They are beyond argument and debate. Their beliefs don't qualify as opinions, any more that I can have a legitimate "opinion" that Santa Clause is real. They have ceded their right to be a part of the dialogue, and in my experience they prefer their own monologues anyway. It's bloody stupid folly to think "bi-partisanship" includes outreach to these chuckleheads.
I've absolutely had it with them. Someone asked me this week how I would respond to someone who said they did not believe in dinosaurs. I said, without hesitation, my response would be "You're ***ing stupid." End of discussion.
I'm just too old to be diplomatic with morons.
July 31, 2009 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
So true, Doc. Can't tell you how many hours I've wasted trying to reach out in a rational way, it's like trying to teach a dog HTML coding for a flash website. The truth will not be comprehended by these folks.
July 31, 2009 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Though I love Josh's work and the site, I have a criticism of the coverage. In some references, the story says 28% of Republicans "believe" Obama was not born in the U.S. How do we know these racist morons are telling the truth about what they believe? I think examining the brain tissue, even in autopsy, to determine what they actually believe is beyond the current science. Since the numbers break so dramatically along partisan lines, I think it is fair to say that certain Republicans really don't like Obama and would be willing to subscribe to any negative assertions about him. Kos could prove this by asking a completely ridiculous question (Did Obama fight for Spain in the Spanish-American War?) in his next poll, but it would just provide another rumor for Lou Dobbs to chew on.
July 31, 2009 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
> I think examining the brain tissue, even in autopsy,
> to determine what they actually believe is beyond
> the current science.
Science be damned! It's a great idea in any case.
Since brain tissue is prolly n.a. for most of them,
it'll save money to just autopsy every one of 'em.
LK
July 31, 2009 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
"it's like trying to teach a dog HTML coding for a flash website."
My money's on the dog. At least it would try to learn if there was a biscuit at the end.
July 31, 2009 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can't we just make the South become another country. Jeez! I am sick of this part of the US, they have always been the starting point for all political issues. I say another south of Virginia and East of the Mississippi River should be on their own.
Too bad leftists don't own guns!
July 31, 2009 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
At this point, I think that liberals are the ones really driving the 'birther' story. Sure, it's funny, and it makes us feel superior. But we're being catty at the expense of talking about the real issues, like Healthcare Reform, on which we should be focusing. We need to drop it and move on to some substantive stuff.
As for the South-bashing that's rampant here and really in the liberal community at large...sure, we have problems. But it's not like the rest of the country is perfect. I've witnessed a lot more racial tension in Philadelphia, PA, then in Montgomery, AL. Furthermore, as a purely practical matter, it's incredibly unproductive and unhelpful.
July 31, 2009 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can't have an opinion about more than one subject?
Birther's motivations are obviously racist. Why is pointing that out catty?
July 31, 2009 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I will take your point that we should be talking about Healthcare and other pressing issues, but I think there is a really important thing to understand about America here that a lot of folks just take for granted. The South really is the problem on nearly every national issue because with Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana voting complete morons into the US Senate the votes of California, New York, and Illinois get canceled out. The House could vote a pretty good Healthcare bill out with representation proportional to population, most people do have some common sense. The problem in the Senate is the backwater ignorant States get way over represented and the ability to deal with anything complex is impossible. The South is dragging this country into a shithole of economic decline and global climate warming that I am very concerned the rest of us cannot reverse.
July 31, 2009 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
As for having opinions on two issues - of course you can, and of course the absurdity of the birthers thing needed to be pointed out. My point is that, having done that, we need to move on. Not forget, not agree, but just move the national discussion on to things that make a difference in people's lives.
Hollywood - I find it hard to believe that you're actually blaming the South for, well, everything. I mean, are you *REALLY* arguing that Illinois is the model - particularly when it comes to the Senate? Or that California, with their energy crisis, IOUs, and, let's not forget, fair share of homophobia and racism, is some sort of liberal utopia? Or that politicians from New York are somehow perfect? Eliot Spitzer ring a bell?
How about this: did you know that Alabama's (republican) governor has been aggressively seeking to expand alternate fuel production, making numerous trips to South America to discuss growing sugar cane here? Or that Auburn University has one of the leading sustainable architecture programs? Again, we're far from perfect, but quite frankly I see us trying harder right now to actually come up with workable solutions for the energy crisis than California. So my point is this: stop using the South as a scapegoat to avoid the hard work that needs to be done EVERYWHERE.
July 31, 2009 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again I agree that there is no EVERYTHING argument to be made here but please .... The entire country just adopted California Clean Air standards.... finally. We have been way ahead on this and that is how our congressional delegation votes. The energy crisis in California was manufactured in Texas by Enron and friends. I personally still pay higher electric rates to pay off the extortion from Southern utility companies. Homophobia in California does not hold a candle to homophobia in the South. Try getting anywhere near 50% voting for equal marriage rights in Alabama. Give me a break! I am thrilled there are Liberals fighting for a common sense future in all 50 states, but I will always bank on the big Blue states to lead to the future and the small Red states to resist. I am sick and tired of "San Francisco values" and "Hollywood" being smeared by right wing morons as something despised by decent folks. Enough! On so many ways to count it is the South that has a lot of catching up to do.
July 31, 2009 6:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Has it ever been any other way? When Kennedy was elected there was a huge segment of WASP America certain he'd have the pope sleeping full-time in the Lincoln bedroom. The only time this racial, religious, ethnic crap doesn't float to the surface is when we elect white men in gray suits. Of course, we have to deal with the wars they start but that's small potatoes compared to the fear generated by the prospect of a Muslim president born in another country.
I used to listen to my in-laws discuss politics at the dinner table every Sunday, their opinions fueled by Paul Harvey. At least he was halfway civilized in his rhetoric, but the gist was the same: the country was being handed over to the [insert socialist government teat sucking minority group here]. The code was a little more subtle back then, but the message was the same.
One last thing; extrapolate that poll across the entire population and we've got more than 80 million Fucking Morons, many of whom are reproducing and raising Little Fucking Morons. Not that I have any suggestions in that regard. Really.
July 31, 2009 3:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
about the same percentage of people who do not believe in evolution.
July 31, 2009 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
The use of the term 'birthers' ticks me off, because it was just starting to attach to the anti-choice movement, who aren't actually pro-LIFE but only pro-BIRTH.
As evidenced by the same cohort's rabid reaction to actual healthcare for all, they don't give a (technical term here) rat's ass about a baby once it's out of the womb.
Thus 'Birthers'.
July 31, 2009 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
From Adorno's _The Authoritarian Personality_ to John Dean's _Conservatives Without Conscience_, these maniacs have been studied and written about for decades. Conservatives tend to be stupid, ignorant, and sadistic. In our political culture it is considered rude to state that simple fact.
August 4, 2009 8:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
How many people are in this poll again?
August 5, 2009 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink