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The Rasmussen "Presidential Approval Index": Is This Newer Measurement Worth Anything?

Some commentators on the right have been pointing to an interesting number that has been coming from the Rasmussen daily tracking poll, which Rasmussen bills as the "Presidential Approval Index," which Scott Rasmussen only began bringing out in late 2008. The key questions then are: What is this number, and is it a valid measurement of real popularity? In an interview today with TPM, Rasmussen defended the index's validity against some harsh criticism, saying that intensity of opinion -- the true figure measured by his index -- does indeed matter.

The thing to remember is that this is not simply subtracting all the respondents who disapprove of President Obama from the people who approve. Instead, Rasmussen takes the numbers who strongly approve or disapprove, and then performs this math. As of today, that index number is -10, compared to an overall rating of +1 in Rasmussen's daily tracker.

It would seem at first glance that this number can skew negative -- that is, the people who disapprove of a president are inherently more likely to feel strongly about it, compared to a certain level of lukewarm support for a president. For example, the 2004 exit poll put George W. Bush's strong approval at 33%, to strong disapproval of 34%. But his overall approval was 53% to disapproval at 46%, and he was re-elected 51%-48%.

I asked three prominent polling experts about this, and they all lambasted it.

Mark Blumenthal of Pollster.com said he didn't know of anyone who had previously given this as a prominent "index." "If Obama now has more strong detractors than strong supporters, that is politically meaningful (though contrary to the results of the recent ABC/Washington Post polls, to pick one example)," said Blumenthal. "But to report only those who strongly approve or strongly disapprove of Obama while neglecting mention of the aggregate numbers strikes me as more political spin than analysis."

Charles Franklin of Pollster.com, who is also my former poli-sci professor, said that it "seems misguided" to write off the moderate approvers and disapprovers. And Prof. Alan Abramowitz of Emory University was quite tough on it: "In my opinion, it makes no sense. It assumes that there's no difference between those who just approve and disapprove, that the only opinions that count are strong approval and disapproval, but there' s no evidence to support that claim."

For his part, Scott Rasmussen defended the index to me. He said he began breaking out the strong approval-disapproval numbers late in 2008, originally for the simple purpose of differentiating himself from Gallup after they got in on the daily tracking gig that had previously been his sole domain. And while he agrees that overall approval will be by far the more important number in 2012, he also thinks that for now the intensity of feeling can have a serious impact on policy discussion and political outcomes.

Rasmussen has a working hypothesis that these numbers could be an important indicator in the lower-turnout midterm elections of 2010, when intensity of feeling can genuinely matter. "I know the intensity by the time we get to 2012 won't matter as much as the overall number. What I don't know, and what we're unsure of, is what it does in 2010," said Rasmussen. "Clearly, if the President's numbers are down from where they are now, whether you mean overall or the index, it's going to be more difficult for Democrats to do well in the midterms. And I don't know, but I suspect, that if the intensity gap is strong it will hurt them. It definitely hurt the Republicans in 2006."

For now, Rasmussen said the usefulness of the strong approval-disapproval index could become more apparent over the coming recess. Members of Congress will go home and hear a lot from constituents who are heavily in favor of Obama's proposals, or heavily against them. "They're probably not gonna hear from people in August who are kind of lukewarm," he said. "Now I'm not saying whether that's a healthy dynamic, but I'm saying people who are more passionate get heard more."

Above all, Rasmussen rejects any suggestion that this is about political spin.

"The political thing I care about is if Barack Obama, if we have him leading by six points before Election Day last year, I want him to win by six points, because I want our polls to be accurate," said Rasmussen. And for the record, Rasmussen's final polls had Obama ahead 52%-46%, which was nearly identical to Obama's final margin of 53%-46%, and made him one of the most accurate pollsters out there. So don't count him out.


60 Comments

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The name "Rasmussen" is already quite sufficient to establish that it's worthless.

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Seconded! It amazes me that people still consider Rasmussen as reputable. His polls are worthless right-wing propaganda. I have been polled by Rasmussen so I know first-hand how biased their questions are in favor of the Republicans. All one has to do is go to pollster.com (ironically, mentioned in the original article here!) and look at Obama's approval and favorable rating polls. It is obvious to a 6th grader who can read a graph that Rasmussen is a far outlier compared to *all* other polls considered! It is the Repub friendly poll; something I'd expect Faux News and AP to hype. Which they do, ignore all the other mainstream polls. First rule of polls: If it is a far outlier compared to similar polls, it very likely is. And Rasmussen always is.

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"And for the record, Rasmussen's final polls had Obama ahead 52%-46%, which was nearly identical to Obama's final margin of 53%-46%, and made him one of the most accurate pollsters out there."

Read much?

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Yes as a matter of fact I do. But obviously you don't, clueless. Or you would know that Rasmussen's poll are awful...except at the very end when he picked up the slack to appear better. There have been many points made about what Rasmussen did last year. Here is a clue: check out what fivethirtyeight.com had to say about how Rasmussen suddenly improved at the very *end* of the campaign. Here is another one: Check out pollster.com and compare Rasmussen with every other poll re: approval ratings and favorable ratings for Obama.

It's truly pathetic that you just take what someone tells you verbatim without any critical analysis or thinking involved. How very Republican of you.

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Picking up the slack at the end... good call, if I'm reading that correctly, because Rasmussen himself betrayed how much he wants his results in a big election to be credible. It's a career thing.

But... what if he's not tracking a big election?

Here's where you have to look at agenda. Between election years, the GOP obviously wants to drive down a Dem Prez' popularity, and drive his negatives up. There is, in my opinion, what I call a "sheep factor":

When the average marshmallow American hears on a daily basis that Obama is the candidate/President of Hope 'n' Change, that's the brand identifier for these non-opinion leaders. That's when they like him.

When, on the other hand, they keep hearing the daily drumbeat that Obama has "failed" on the economy; "failed" to produce meaningful health care reform; stepped onto the wrong side of racial politics because he "has a problem with white people" (okay... how many places, other than Fox, did you hear that sound byte yesterday alone???); and his popularity has "gone down"... what exactly do you think they're going to think? Remember: "thinking" isn't their strong suit!

Back to Rasmussen: for all the guileless posturing about how he wants to be credible when the results of an election will prove him right or wrong, during the off-time, he's part of the conventional wisdom-building drumbeat of the GOP, to corral that marshmallow into an opposition bloc.

That is why he must be busted.

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Do some research before posting such a simplistic posting. Do some research on Scott Rasmussen, his right-wing political background and propensity for "push-polling" by asking loaded questions, ALWAYS for his conservative buddies. He's a fraud.

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WHAAA???I read it on the internet , it must be true! Gayithican - You better start forwarding those emails to Microsoft so you can start receiving your checks.

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Even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day...

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Act like an adult around here much?

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It does have the obvious advantage that with no history correlating it with the Former Occupants we've come to know, it's a lot easier to spin whichever way your curveball is leaning.

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And that's their whole intention. You should see a reader on my site excuse for using Rasmussen. Totally incoherent. Obama gets judged by a different standard. It's the only way to make their Fantasy World work. It's how they sleep at night.

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As others have said, it's Rasmussen. He always looks to pay the GOP/Conservative side, and then starts hedging his polls in the final week of an election towards reality so that he can end up with a "good" number to point at in the end.

There are so many polls out there now that I don't see why anyone bothers with Rasmussen these days.

John

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Rasmussen also have almost as many Republicans as there are Democrats and very little Independents.

Most polls have way more Independents and Democrats than Republicans.

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wish



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Rasmussen's polls were way off during the campaign if I recall correctly. With all the negative press on the health care issue I am not surprised if his numbers are down. I am not worried at all about this stupid poll or any other poll at the moment. This is nothing but republican propaganda that plays well with its 27% base.

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Scott Rasmussen has been a Fox Noise contributor for years and in reality is a Republican shill. He created the methodology of adding the somewhat to his polling to enhance the likability of Bush. Thus he can add like and somewhat like together giving Bush greater numbers.

Of course now that Obama is in office Rasmussen conveniently omits using the dual total (adding strongly approve and approve together) and just uses one part of a total that he gave to Bush.

One more note. Rasmussen consistently over samples Republicans in his polls.

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Rasmussen didn't get dubbed "Foxmussen" for nothing. The label is apt.

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From the above,"Rasmussen has a working hypothesis that these numbers could be an important indicator in the lower-turnout midterm elections of 2010, when intensity of feeling can genuinely matter. "I know the intensity by the time we get to 2012 won't matter as much as the overall number. What I don't know, and what we're unsure of, is what it does in 2010,"

Whatever the case may be is it possible to put together the same output using numbers from Bush's polling during key intersections of his presidency? Maybe 2001-2003-2005-2007? I probably should emphasize that maybe we could do this for other presidents in our past as well but if I am going to take Rasmussen at their word then it seems reasonable to try to see historical trends took place. Maybe I don't understand polling, maybe you can't apply the same this formula because you did not ask questions the right way, I mean I honestly am not a polling person nor am I in a profession which deals with statistics. To me polling is always a imperfect science, like many others, with value no doubt but not in and of itself.

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Ol' Republican Scotty Raz should check a reputable poll: tonight's CBS. Obama at 58 (up). Up and strong in many issue categories, and this during the shittiest economy since 1933. My bold prediction: the O-Man gets 58-60 percent in 2012.

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Sorry, but I've already counted Rasmussen out. One glance at his website, and you can see that his framing of issues belies truly independent polling. Add in that most of his work has been done primarily for Republicans, and it's hard to view him as the "independent" pollster he claims to be.

Furthermore, he offers no quantitative basis for using his newly concocted "index." That's simply unacceptable for a field that rests on sound quantitative analyses and theory. Creating an "index" based on nothing more than a hunch should throw his already-battered credibility into serious question.

Additionally, if people recall, Rasmussen's polls were often outliers for much of the 2008 campaign, often finding more support for McCain than other polls. They only came into line with everyone else's polls near the end of the campaign. Why? No one really knows.

Now, Rasmussen is showing that Obama has a net -1 approval rating (49/50). Some pollsters/pundits initially dismissed outright Rasmussen's numbers, or took them with a grain of salt, because they were the only pollster using a likely-voter (LV) model* at this point. As such, they have been showing exceptionally high disapproval and relatively low approval for quite some time. Now, a few other pollsters have ventured into the LV territory (still not sure why), and guess what? Rasmussen's poll is yet again an outlier, even among LV polls! His polling skews Republican. Either it's intentional (see: skepticism about independence) or it's a reflection of poor methodological choices (see: mistakes during the 2008 campaign).


* The use of a the LV model so far from election is also questionable, since LVs are notoriously difficult to gauge in an election season. Also, is it sound polling to assess 2010 LVs based on LVs from 2008? Shouldn't you at least wait until 2010, when you'll have a better idea of what the electorate will look like then?

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"Furthermore, he offers no quantitative basis for using his newly concocted 'index.'"

Of course not. He simply picked a number that would give him the result he wanted; but he can't very well say that, can he?

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Good ol' Rasputten

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Just out of curiosity I went to Media Matters and searched on Rasmussen going back a year. I was surprised at the number of instances of skewed polling. The most recent came in the wake of Sarah Palin's resignation announcement, Rasmussen put up numbers favorable to Palin. He got these numbers by only polling Republicans.

There is a clear pattern of biased polling. Which has not gone unnoticed, MSNBC won't even use him anymore, because he is not considered to be reliable.

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"What I don't know, and what we're unsure of, is what it does in 2010,"

Oh jesus christ. It's Summer 2009. Nothing going on now will be remembered in 16 months.

At this point in 2007, the MSM was writing off McCain's campaign as finished.

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Ill be looking forward to 538 taking apart Rasmussen's latest stunt piece by piece.

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I am surprised that it has taken sites like TPM this long to call out Rasmussen on this.

This is why Pollster.com and other sites should NOT include his "index" when aggregating other prez approval ratings.

His "index" is meant solely for the purpose of creating links and propaganda for Matt Drudge and Fox News.

Also, because he does not ask, as Gallup does, do you approve or disapprove, he CANNOT be included with average of average trackers.

Rasmusses asks do you approve, somewhat approve, somewhat disapprove or somewhat disapprove of the job POTUS is doing ...

So, if you SOMEWHAT disapprove of things he is doing (like say, healthcare or DODT), and you say SOMEWHAT disapprove, you get moved into the negative half of his approval ratings for Rasmussen.

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TPM has commented before on Rasmussen's push polling.

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in fact tpm has been fairly consistent in writing critically about rasmussen. enough so that as a dedicated reader of tpm i take it as a given that any mention of rasmussen is to be understood in that context.

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I am speaking *specifically* on Rasmussen's daily prez approval tracker from this TPM story.

As a daily reader myself, this is the FIRST story I saw on this specific topic.

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BTW, look up Bush W's prez index in 2008 ... He was something like under -30 ...

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Oh, one more thing -- "Obama's poll numbers" as a topic are total bullshit. The MSM's usual shortsightedness is astoundingly so this time.

Of course Americans are less positive or enthusiastic. Because he's actually trying to reform stuff and do some heavy lifting. Right about now is when Americans get all weak-kneed and jittery about something they've been clammoring for.

But change is always less painful than people imagine it will be.

Let's see Obama's poll numbers when he's signing this thing into law, not in the middle of the hard part.

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True. At this point in his first term, all Bush had really been known for was his tax cuts, and based on the spin du jour, tax cuts were going to give people back their hard earned cash and result in an unstoppable economy.

I wonder what Obama's numbers would be like if just about every headline in, say, the WaPo or on AP news didn't talk about Obama's health care "set backs," or Obama "struggling" to get his health care package through Congress.

The truth is that the rightwing cannot fight the intellectual, policy wonk fight because it has no ideas of substance. Instead, yet again, all the rightwing can do is engage in stuff like the birther foolishness, or continue its claims that Obama is for socialized medicine that will result in health care being rationed, or any one of a hundred other lies.

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This poll is meaningless and just a new talking point for Fox News. They love to convince their viewers that they are mainstream.

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Look, Rasmussen was looking for something to spin, and he found it.

WHY does he want to spin this catagory of strong feelings? Because it's a minority group of GOP rightwingers, they lack credibility in a poll when measured up against all numbers so he makes a new catagory that makes them important numbers wise and is preaching that for a new GOP talking point that's meaningless out of it's niche context, as HE is spinning it.

In other words, polling wise, it's a load of crap. And progs everywhere need to LEARN why it's crap and SAY SO everytime those numbers are used to fabricate a negative of Obama.

Good work TMP and Eric Kleefeld!!! *G*

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Does this explain all these race baiting going on on rightwing media and the political maneuverings of GOP leaders to obstruct Obama ---to anger enough white racist people to vote in 2010?

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This is probably all part of the Republican anti-healthcare strategy. It gives cover to Blue Dog dems and dipshit Republicans to say "look, the President's policies aren't popular and here's why. I couldn't possibly vote for healthcare against the will of the people".
Secondly, doesn't someone have to pay to facilitate a poll? If so, it was probably paid for by a health insurance lobbyist.

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All polls are meaningless by themselves, and more than a week away from an election. Rassmussen is making some dough in the off season. He's an "entrepreneur" (don't you know).

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The real problem with Rassmussen's "Approval Index" is that it almost totally ignores independents.

Almost all of Obama's strong approval responses are going to come from Democrats, and almost all of the strong disapproval numbers come from Republicans. Neither group is going to decide the next election or give the final verdict on Obama's presidency. It's going to be those thirty percent of independents, who are mushy about Obama's performance even in Rassmussen's shitty polls.

I shudder to use a baseball metaphor on the chance that Nate Silver might read this, but this is like what they say about a baseball season: Every team is going to win 60 games and every team is going to lose 60 games. The other 40 games are going to decide if you're a great team or a total failure.

The same applies to politics. The success or failure of Obama's presidency is going to be decided by the independents, and they are not likely to strongly support or oppose him in any significant numbers at any time in his term.

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Rassmussen's polling will only give the results that and how the questions is asked. I have often listen to Rassmussen, and from his answers about his polls you can pick up that he skews poll results to benefit the GOP and his conservative views. There were poll results stated on MSNBC tonight that when asked the right question about Obama's Health Care Reform his polling results were higher than the generic question asked by Wall Street/NBC polling. So this shows that we shouldn't pay too much attention to the polls. The polls do show there is a lot of racism showing up from the GOP's "right wing". I guess the GOP feels that racism will take down Obama's poll numbers and stop any health care reform.

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For probably 20% of the population, there is literally nothing Obama could say or do that would make them hate him less. Why Rasmussen would create a statistic that gives this cohort more weight, more significance, just doesn't make sense at all.

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1) He needs to get paid, so he makes stuff up to make people happy. And there's not a lot of stuff left about GOP to make people happy . . .

2) He is likely earning 'stipends' or 'retainers' from a variety of GOP based 1% sources to DO this.

3) The MSM eats his shit up, and he gets 'play', which gets flawed GOP talking points play . . . without questions. Annoying questions. Like, about sampling process, numbers crunching, and all them chi and delta thangs what go into doing polling.

Damn my collegiate com studies stats prof would eat this guy up in a one on one . . . *G*

I'm NOT a stats guy, but what I know was fun back when. Some GREAT stat related polling facts presented up above, so I'd like to say thanks to all for the details they shared . . .

RasDude is a loon . . . he should have a license revoked, if there WAS one . . .;-)

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Rassmussen is the Spinal Tap of pollsters.

"No, these go to eleven!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_to_eleven

However, his self-parody is a lot less funny.

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I don't doubt that on the day of the election Rasmussen wants to be right. But for the rest of the time, when there is no objective test of what the "right" answer is, he seems to slant his questions and his interpretation firmly to the right.
I'm not a fan of Obama but from a progressive standpoint. I think he has been responsible for a huge transfer of wealth from the many to the few.

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Rasmussen is nothing more than a self-glorified semi-failed entrepreneur and Cato Institute hack. Ask anybody who knows him from way back.

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Rasmussen is a shill for the Repugs.

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This IS a worthless statistic. This is a Goldilocks bell curve. One bowl too hot, one bowl too cold, and one bowl just right. This results in a 33% approval rating, but lumps too hot with too cold, which are diametrically opposed results thrown into the same 66% "disapprove" group.

Rasmussen is throwing those who just hate the president into the same group as those who think Obama isn't progressive enough. This allows Republicans to portray hard core socialists as if they are on the Republican's side.

Without refining the "disapprove" group into WHY they disapprove, this is political posturing.

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Rasmussen knows how the game is played. It's not about reporting a meaningful result, it's about getting the idiot chattering classes in Washington and in the news networks talking about it. It doesn't matter if it's total bullshit, as long as you can have this run through a few news cycles and have some important-sounding talking heads on the news shows speculating as to what this might mean. It's just another attempt like the birthers and teabaggers to try to drum up some phony discontent with Obama, and make the media play along.

Like all things Republican these days, it's not about significance, it's about the appearance of significance. Marketing 101, plain and simple.

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Yep. He knows what he's doing. Just check this out.

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A poll that throws out the opinion of everyone who has even a hint of moderation -- this is a right-winger's dream.

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Rasmussen says,

"...And I don't know, but I suspect, that if the intensity gap is strong it will hurt them. It definitely hurt the Republicans in 2006."

Ummmm. What if it was the quality of the GOP candidates that "hurt" the Republicans in the 2006 midterm?

Just sayin'.

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Rush has been making hay out of this for days.

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I don't care what Obama's poll #'s say, whether they are skewed or not. All I care about is what he can ACCOMPLISH.

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NOTE: Last year before NOV 4, 2008 Rasmussen partnered with Opinion Research which is owned by News corp, and who owns New Corp? That's right, you got...Rupert Murdoch. Keep that in mind.

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NOTE: Last year before NOV 4, 2008 Rasmussen partnered with Opinion Research which is owned by News corp, and who owns New Corp? That's right, you got...Rupert Murdoch. Keep that in mind.

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I think it's significant because it shows the extent to which liberals are getting impatient with the administration, over civil liberties, torture, foreign policy and healthcare reform. I doubt that there's very much movement on the conservative side in the past two months; most of that was earlier in the year with Limbaugh, Beck et. al. getting them back in the insane asylum.

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I think it's cool that Rasmussen invented an "index" in late 2008 that he obviously knew he would be able to use against Obama for the next four years.

Any attempt to claim that the purpose of this number is anything other than partisan is naive or disingenuous.

If Obama has moderate approval from 70% of the electorate, strong approval from 10% of the electorate, and strong disapproval from 20% of the electorate, Rasmussen will score this as -10%. This is clearly idiotic, esp. given our prior knowledge that 20-25% of the population would register "strong disapproval" of Obama regardless of what he did.

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Exactly. This poll is nothing but a way to reward the dead-ender 22% in this country by telling them that the intensity of their irrational and psychotic worldview matters more than anything else in electoral politics.

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Yeah, but it's about the spin also, too, you betcha.

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I was wondering the same thing. Just seems more of a way to SPIN the numbers, which Republicans are Pros at.

I prefer Daily Kos' Research 2000 polls. They talk to 2400 people, almost 1 1/2 X's the number of people Rasmussen or other polling firms use. You get a much, much better picture the more people you poll.

Rasmussen - just more Republican owned and operated media operandi...


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I see nothing wrong with basing the Presidential Approval Index on the Strongly Approve and Disapprove respondents. For one thing, these are the people who are most likely to vote, so their opinions matter most. For another, this is an index, i.e., a pointer, that indicates how things are moving, and it need not measure every shade of opinion.

Rasmussen does measure all shades of approval and disapproval, however. They are included in the "Total Approve" and "Total Disapprove" groups. Just as an experiment, I constructed a presidential approval index based on those two groups, subtracting the Total Disapprove percentage from the Total Approve percentage for each day since inauguration. I found that while Rasmussen's official approval index shows a decline of 37 points in the index since inauguration, an index based on all degrees of approval/disapproval shows a decline of 36 points since inauguration. Thus, while the basic percentages are different, the trends are practically the same.

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