After "Death Panel" Remarks, Palin Now Calls For Civil Discourse
Former Gov. Sarah Palin (R-AK) -- who last week denounced President Obama for supposedly wanting to create a "death panel" that would condemn her Down Syndrome son to go without health care -- is now calling for civility at town halls, and to not diminish our political discourse. Here's her latest Facebook post:
There are many disturbing details in the current bill that Washington is trying to rush through Congress, but we must stick to a discussion of the issues and not get sidetracked by tactics that can be accused of leading to intimidation or harassment. Such tactics diminish our nation's civil discourse which we need now more than ever because the fine print in this outrageous health care proposal must be understood clearly and not get lost in conscientious voters' passion to want to make elected officials hear what we are saying. Let's not give the proponents of nationalized health care any reason to criticize us.
It would be incorrect to say that Palin is backing off. Rather, she is calling for civility in the manner of the debate, so as to focus effectively on how evil and disturbing her opponents are.
(Via Ben Smith.)
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Lovely. After telling her militant, heavily armed followers that Democrats of being murdering, eugenicist fiends, she calls for civility.
When wingnuts (though I hesitate to apply that term to her given that it implies a level of ideological coherence inconsistent with her rank opportunism) who've been indulging in inflammatory rhetoric do this, is is an admission that they expect violence, are complicit in its creation and want to try to disassociate themselves from it in advance.
August 10, 2009 9:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, I think she didn't like being laughed at by everyone but Newt.
August 10, 2009 9:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
She still dug that hole deeper though. It almost sounds as if she is implying they should talk first then react rather than react without talking. Either way, no one gets a chance to say a word in edgewise so the debate becomes nothing more than an exercise in jerking off - serves no useful purpose. Which just so happens to be the motive behind the facade.
August 10, 2009 10:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is a great and classic example of liberals being incapable of happiness. Here Palin is trying to do exactly what you folks want, and you're still not happy. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk.
Perhaps you should agitate for calling off the union thugs as a gesture of good will, before they get shot up. That is, as opposed to being a one-trick shrew.
August 10, 2009 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
What compromise? She was humiliated for her incorrect and misleading statements now she's trying to backtrack. "Death squads?" Tsk Tsk.
August 10, 2009 11:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
I would not be surprised if it turned out you worked for Sarah Palin. So who is the person writing her facebook messages? While total BS, I am able to read them just once in order to get her point.
August 10, 2009 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
He probably volunteers for Palin as it's an honor to serve such a brilliant, selfless soul destined for the upper class condos once she reaches heaven.
August 10, 2009 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
whatever happened to trollcritic3000
August 10, 2009 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
And Even the Birthers are Proposing a 'Compromise': Obama Can Serve as Prez 3/5 of the Time
http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=8165
August 10, 2009 9:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
So they come up with what they feel is an equitable solution to this problem they have with Obama as President based on their interpretation of the Constitution?
August 10, 2009 10:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
I suspect that it would also be incorrect to say that Gov. Palin even wrote the second FB note. The style is not typical, and was likely done on her behalf by a staffer with the intent to redirect.
Many political figures have staff write their FB, MS and Twit missives. It sounds like in this case she is posting her own notes, AND has staff writing as well.
August 10, 2009 9:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
It does seem to have a lot polysyllabic words, and complex (if somewhat rambling) sentence structures. A bit more organized that typical Palin-speak.
I agree with you, she might not have written it herself.
August 10, 2009 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think she wrote the first one either. Sure, the "death panel" statement was dripping with the crazy, but it actually had coherent grammar and punctuation.
August 10, 2009 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Now she wants civil discourse? She's looking at the reports of her own discourse and learning that she's being depicted as a demagogue.
No, she doesn't want respectful and intelligent discourse, she, like republicans in general, only want the appearance of respectful discourse as a venue to propagate their despicable lies and disinformation. Best to relegate all of them who have proven themselves as trash talking manipulators of the ignorant, who have an interest in maintaining falsehoods. To me, I don't give a rat's ass what she says about Russia, her down's syndrome supporters, or slimy oil policies; she has nothing to add to political discussion, and never will.
August 10, 2009 9:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're giving her a lot more intellectual credit than I would.
August 10, 2009 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Who cares what she has to say? She's a loser and a quitter. She has no official standing, nor does Newtie. Their opinions matter as much as mine and carry just as much weight. Getta job Sarah.
August 10, 2009 9:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
While we're at it, how about throwing out "Joe the Plumber" and Liz Cheney, too?
August 10, 2009 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good heavens, you're inciting a regime of censorship? How dare you try and strip citizens of their God-give, Constitutional right to speak!
Fascist.
August 10, 2009 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
They can speak all they want, but why should we listen, and why does TPM and other media broadcast their garbage?
August 10, 2009 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do you keep some horses on your property or something? Because you sure like to beat up straw men, and I figure you must be doing something with the byproduct.
Oh, and Godwin wants you to stop abusing his law.
August 10, 2009 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
They have a right to speak, but the American people have a right to the truth. The media constantly indulges these liars without push back. That's disturbing.
August 10, 2009 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
"...tactics that can be accused of leading to intimidation or harassment."
Nah, that's palin-speak word usage.
"J'accuse, tactics! Begone with you, I say begone!"
August 10, 2009 9:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good Catch ...word salad extraordanaire.
August 10, 2009 10:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, senior healthcare advisor to Obama, was the co-author of a paper in the January 2009 Lancet, “Principles for Allocation of Scarce Medical Interventions,” which advocates the rationing of medical care according to an age based priority system called “complete lives.” This proposal calls for a dramatic reduction in the allocation of scarce medical resources to older people. It is no surprise that elderly people who don’t want their health care benefits cut would take offense at Emanuel and the so-called “cost savings” he and Obama advocate – people understand this means reduction in health care services delivery.
Obama is calling for trillions of dollars of cost reduction for Medicare. This summer Obama’s Centers for Medicaid and Medicare Services (CMS) are advocating big cuts. Physicians who read X-rays, CT and MRI scans will get a 30% cut Jan. 1, on top of a 23% cut they got five years ago. Radiation oncologists will get a 20% cut; impact on practices is estimated at an 18%-31% cut in revenue. The required utilization of imaging and therapeutic radiation machines would rise from 40%-50% at present, to 95%. This will force the shutdown of many centers, especially in rural and minority areas, and lead to an accelerated rate of deaths from cancer.
Obama’s plan promises to institutionalize Medicare cuts going forward, taking Medicare reimbursement decisions out of the hands of our elected representatives, and turning it over to a panel called the Independent Medicare Advisory Commission (IMAC) IMAC has been rightly targeted by Congresswoman Woolsey and 50+ others, who expressed their concern about “the impact it would have on seniors, people with disabilities, doctors, and hospitals.” which would take away Medicare reimbursement decisions from our elected representatives, and place this in the hands of the anonymous bureaucrats. In the health care bill, the IMAC would be mandated to cut Medicare expenditures. Perhaps this picture of an appointed panel deciding what medical procedures will be paid for under what circumstances could be evoking fears of the so-called "death panel."
And this is all from the same White House gang who threw away $23 trillion in bailouts for the big banks and Wall Street. No wonder the working people in America are upset! You know you aren't talking about real reform when big Pharma commits to spend $100 million to help get the "reform" approved. Obama should follow Roosevelt’s lead and build more hospitals, expand Medicare, and junk his support for the big bank bailout.
August 10, 2009 10:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
obama obama obama obama obama obama obama obama obama
*yawn*
August 10, 2009 10:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
That White House gang who threw away $23 trillion in bailouts for big banks and Wall Street did so back in September/October of 2008. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bu$h was President at the time and his Administration was full of Republician appointees. If the American people are upset, perhaps someone should tell them exactly who they should be upset about ... Bu$h and the Republicans not Obama and the Democrats.
August 10, 2009 10:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
"They threw away 23 trillion dollars?" Whose ass was that non-existant fact pulled out of?
I mean, sure, the whole post is the typical phantasmagoric gobbledegook that passes for "thought" among modern wingnuts, but th' stoopid is really smacking me upside the head on this one. We threw away an amount that represents more than 200% of the national debt and almost 200% of GNP and yet, somehow, neither GNP nor the national debt increased by 200%?
So how is that possible? Did they just print up two hundred and thirty billion hundred dollar bills and have a gigantic bonfire with them? Or did they maybe pull the ten thousand dollar bill out of retirement so they'd only have to print up two billion three hundred million bills for the fire? Or maybe Congress secretly authorized the printing of twenty three one trillion dollar bills (hopefully with George W. Bush's picture) so they could burn all that money without taking a risk of setting the atmosphere on fire?
This isn't even in the top ten of the stupidest damn pieces of blithering nonsense I've heard a wingnut say in the last seven days, but it's certainly the sneakiest because it's simultaneously subversive of confidence yet so dry and mathy that no one will check it.
August 10, 2009 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
The bailouts cost $700B, not $23T. Other than that your post is complete bullshit.
August 10, 2009 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can you substantiate the 23 trillion give away
August 10, 2009 10:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
And this is all from the same White House gang who threw away $23 trillion in bailouts for the big banks and Wall Street.
hat $23T figure has been extensively debunked. Not to mention, as noted above, that the bailouts were did not start and were not formulated by the "same White House gang" that is proposing health insurance reform. Such sloppiness or willful disregard for the facts kind of undercuts your other statements.
August 10, 2009 10:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Build more hospitals? Are you crazy? Most hospitals have empty beds--that's why there is an effort to transition to outpatient and alternative sites for care. You misrepresent Emanuel's paper. At some point in the life of an individual heroic measures have diminishing returns, e.g., an 80-year-old probably could not tolerate the surgery and effects of immunosuppressants, so you don't do a liver transplant, especially when an 18-year-old also needs that liver and will survive the transplant. By the way, we are far more generous in providing ineffective care to seniors than is the UK or Australia. Seniors receive the disproportionate amount of unnecessary care in this country because the system rewards waste. Emanuel's paper was about eliminating waste, not killing people.
August 10, 2009 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Who gave you the $23 Trillion, the same group who told you the Iraq war would be over in 6 days or 6 weeks and would be paid for by the oil revenues, costing America nothing?
August 10, 2009 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
The source for the $23.7 trillion liability exposure is page 138 of Inspector General Barofsky’s report to Congress in July of this year (http://www.sigtarp.gov/reports/congress/2009/July2009_Quarterly_Report_to_Congress.pdf).
While it is true that the bailout of Wall Street was originated by Bush, Paulson et al, Obama has furthered these terrible policies, and has taken ownership of them, through the actions of his appointees Geithner and Summers, who are completely in the pocket of Wall Street.
Why degenerate into name calling, “wing nut”? I voted for Obama and campaigned for him, and I have been profoundly disappointed by his sellout to Wall Street. Does this mean I cannot criticize the bad proposals he is promoting now? Perhaps name calling is easier than addressing the substantive concerns that many of us regarding Obama’s proposals to slash Medicare spending.
Of course we need more hospital beds. The number of hospital beds per capita in the United States today is less than half of what it was a generation ago.
Let’s have real health care reform: dump the HMO’s, negotiate drug prices with Big Pharma, and give us a single payer system. Don’t focus on rationing medical care and cutting costs, slashing payments to doctors and hospitals; instead let’s focus on expanding facilities and services to meet the needs of the people.
August 10, 2009 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry. I only assumed you were a wingnut because you didn't know what the hell you were talking about.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/business/economy/21bailout.html?_r=2&ref=business
And as to Obama's "sellout to Wall Street?" Without quibbling over whether it Was Obama's, Bush's or the Fed's, it staved off a banking crisis that would have put us into a second great depression.
As Krugman put it this morning:
A few months ago the possibility of falling into the abyss seemed all too real. The financial panic of late 2008 was as severe, in some ways, as the banking panic of the early 1930s, and for a while key economic indicators — world trade, world industrial production, even stock prices — were falling as fast as or faster than they did in 1929-30.
* * *
In addition to having this “automatic” stabilizing effect, the government has stepped in to rescue the financial sector. You can argue (and I would) that the bailouts of financial firms could and should have been handled better, that taxpayers have paid too much and received too little. Yet it’s possible to be dissatisfied, even angry, about the way the financial bailouts have worked while acknowledging that without these bailouts things would have been much worse.
Last fall and winter, when we were on the brink, it came down to to a simple ugly choice. Risk rewarding some people who some think deserved to punished (either Wall Street fatcats or people who got into mortgages they couldn't afford) or have a second Great Depresion. Pick one.
Some argue that we should have worked the problem from the other end--put the money into helping people pay the mortgages they couldn't afford rather than into propping up the lenders who were endangered by the defaults. However, there were just as many people--even among those who usually call themselves "progressives"--decrying the potential injustice of paying off some profligate grasshopper's unaffordable mortgage on his McMansion as were decrying directly bailing out the fact cats on Wall Street.
Moral justice and staving off an economic catastrophe (as opposed to the mere disaster we have now) were, for several months, mutually incompatible goals. We staved off the catastrophe. Pissing and moaning about the unavoidable injustice is silly unless you preferred the alternative.
August 10, 2009 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
She's telling the lynchmob that if the fabricated accusations of baby killing, nazism, and forced euthanasia and the threats of exercizing their second ammendment rights against Democrats are propagated in a civil manner, we can no longer criticize their behavior.
August 10, 2009 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is there such as thing as civilized civil unrest?
August 10, 2009 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Very true. Free speech and all that.
August 10, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sure thing. Talk to the Dixie Chicks about that whole free-speech thing.
August 10, 2009 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Heh. Nobody prevented them from speaking, it's just that the Chicks didn't want to take responsibility for the backlash their words brought. Bush didn't do anything to them, the American public did. Boo hoo.
August 10, 2009 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again, you keep arguing with a strawman. Who exactly is saying that these people do not have a right to speak? You keep screaming "free speech" when that's not the issue.
I didn't say or imply that Bush did anything to the Dixie Chicks...what's your point? Are you implying that Obama is doing something to these townhall protesters?
It's the "American public" who backlashed against the Dixie Chicks and that's okay with you...but any criticism from the left of some woman crying about a "government takover" of her medicare or of a group who is obviously only interested in causing chaos is just fascist.
August 10, 2009 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Stop mentioning her name. Thanks in advance.
August 10, 2009 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
First appointment to Death Panel.
See:
http://notionscapital.wordpress.com/2009/08/09/paula-abdul-named-to-obama-death-panel/
August 10, 2009 10:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Heh. Death Panel for Cuties.
August 10, 2009 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sarah,
Ever hear those famous words of Jesus to
" Do Unto Others As you Would Like Them To Do Unto You ?
You complain that people tell lies about you, but you are guilty of the same thing and worse.
You came close to inciting violence when you were campaigning.
What will really satisfy you? Serious harm or worse to come to Obama ?
I certaintly hope that never happens but you and some of the wacky people you pal around with are sure stirring up some words to set some wacko off!
You can't take your words back !
Read the book of James in the Bible!
Shame on you!!!
August 10, 2009 10:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is it civil to point out her dishonesty? She clearly hasn't "read the bill" since there isn't one bill and no plan for "nationalized health care". The brown shirts don't know what they're protesting because they are protesting the fact that they lost an election. They can't "make elected officials hear what we are saying" because they have nothing to say. They are as incoherent as their leaders.
August 10, 2009 11:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Eric, you're doing a disservice to your readers by not giving background to where Palin's reference comes from. It's from a 1996 paper (not 2009 as some contend) by Ezekiel Emanuel, Rahm's brother. It does in fact discuss the differences between basic and discretionary services, and in view of limited resources, what criteria might be used to decide who gets those resources. Jake Tapper discusses:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/07/when-academic-words-become-political-ammunition-.html
Emanuel doesn't seem to be "advocating" - he is discussing the different ways such a thing happens and what might be more ethical ways of doing this.
The fact is that health insurance companies have these same kind of decision makers, but they're not elected or public officials, they might be simply bean counters looking to guarantee stockholder value, there is no transparency for the public, but someone denied say breast cancer treatment (I believe one of the bloggers over at Firedog had this issue) has no recourse. If it's a government body making this decision, you can raise a fit, call your Senator, sue or start a protest.
But by not giving sources of known information, readers assume Palin's just whacko, and then they give Republican fans an easy retort: "you're deluded, Emanuel says so right here". Bad way of doing business, bad way of arguing. Instead, progressives need to have the facts, and be able to say how many cases are disallowed by insurance companies a year, retroactively labeled as "pre-existing" or other foul practices. But instead, Democrats do what they usually do, go into battle unarmed and get mowed over by self-assured conservatives with a few key facts and a head full of delusion.
Now, since Palin is working off of factual information, you already misrepresent her in her description of a Death Panel. There are already many Death Panels in and out of government. Deep Capture describes how the FDA denied a promising prostate drug treatment due to unethical and likely illegal actions of stock manipulators. The government decides which drugs and treatments it has the resources to test. Insurance companies decide which treatments are too expensive, often masked with "acceptable lower cost alternatives exist". Defunding stem cell research was a direct attack on a number of promising lines of research - I think that decision was made by a Death Panel of 1, George W. Bush.
August 10, 2009 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent points.
August 10, 2009 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Desidero, why so much energy squandered on so little? I haven't seen anything so futile since the Tower of Babel. I suggest a Labradoodle.
August 10, 2009 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sweet Jesus please make her go away.
Here is a great article about the myth of rationing.
http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=2445
August 10, 2009 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Let's not give the proponents of nationalized health care any reason to criticize us".
Sorry, Sarah. That ship sailed away a long time ago...
Stupid is as stupid says (on Twitter or Facebook).
August 10, 2009 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't care where she got her information from, she is still a whacko and she knows she came off as a whacko. Why else would she make this second statement?
August 10, 2009 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
To Shooter and others she is "the best and brightest" in America. Her words sing like truth from the angels as her wisdom showers them like purified rain.
August 10, 2009 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think that she really wrote this. I realize that some people write better than they speak, but this must have been written by someone else.
August 10, 2009 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Summary of most recent Palin press release:
"Please think what I write is relevant."
August 10, 2009 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sarah Palin is Ted Stevens in lipstick. She's about as trustworthy Tom Delay with a meth habit.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/09/01/palin_was_a_director_of_embatt.html
August 10, 2009 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who remembers, during previous presidential campaigns, when the Republicans and their candidate (usually Bushes) would say nasty, divisive things, then when debunked firmly, would simply reply 'oops, sorry'? Well, that's a tactic because all anyone remembers is the negative things said about the Democratic candidate. It didn't matter that lies were told. The only important thing was that the damage was inflicted and the tactical advantage won. This issue with Palin is the latest example of just more of the same. She isn't bothered by any negative press from her statement. It's just more of their tactics. It has produced the desired effect, revved up the faithful, annoyed the Democrats, and kept her name in the limelight. It doesn't matter one bit if it generated negative press for her. That's the game, and saying 'lets be civil' is just part of it.
August 10, 2009 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dear Sarah,
Pound sand:
More at the link...August 10, 2009 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink