TPMDC Sunday Roundup
Dean: Palin "Just Made That Up" About The Death Panel
Former DNC Chairman Howard Dean told CNN that Sarah Palin's line about President Obama establishing a "death panel" was simply wrong. "About euthanasia, they're just totally erroneous. She just made that up," said Dean. "Just like the 'Bridge to Nowhere' that she supposedly didn't support.
Gingrich Defends Palin On The Death Panel
Appearing on This Week, former Speaker Newt Gingrich defended Palin on the "death panel" talk, even though George Stephanopoulos pointed out multiple times that the health care bill does not promote euthanasia. "You are asking us to trust turning power over to the government," said Gingrich, "when there are clearly people in American who believe in establishing euthanasia, including selective standards."
Obama's Day Ahead
President Obama will depart from the White House at 1:55 p.m. ET, headed to Guadalajara, Mexico. He will arrive at 6:20 p.m. ET, and will meet with President Felipe Calderón at 7 p.m. ET. He will then attend a working dinner with Calderón and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper at 8 p.m. ET, and they will attend a cultural event at 9:15 p.m. ET.
Durbin: Town Hall Disruptions "Clearly Being Orchestrated"
Appearing on CNN, Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-IL) said that town hall disruptions are part of a deliberate effort, and not simply people routinely getting upset at town hall meetings. "But this is clearly being orchestrated and these folks have instructions. They come down from a Texas lobbyist in Washington," said Durbin, also adding: "When there are a group of people honestly sitting in the middle trying to ask the important questions and get the right answers, and instead someone takes the microphone and screams and shouts to the point where the meeting comes to an end, that isn't dialogue, that isn't the democratic process."
McConnell: Dems Trying To Change Subject And "Demonize" Citizens
Appearing on Fox News Sunday, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) said the Democrats are trying to change the subject by attacking town hall disruption. "Look, I don't think either side ought to be trying to engage in disrupting meetings, either the Democratic side or the Republican side. We ought to focus on the issue," said McConnell. "And to demonize citizens who are -- you know, who are energetic about this strikes me as demonstrating a kind of weakness in your position -- in other words, you want to -- you want to change the subject, and rather than talk about the half a trillion dollar in Medicare cuts, let's talk about somebody at some town meeting who misbehaved. It strikes me that's missing the point."
Graham: "Let's Not Rumsfeld Afghanistan"
Appearing on Face The Nation, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) called for more funding and troops for Afghanistan: "My message to my Democratic colleagues is that we made mistakes in Iraq. Let's not Rumsfeld Afghanistan. Let's don't do this thing on the cheap. Let's have enough combat power and engagement across the board to make sure we're successful. And quite frankly, we all have got a lot of ground to make up."
Jones: Kim Jong Il Apparently In Good Health
Appearing on Meet The Press, National Security Adviser James Jones said that North Korean leader Kim Jong Il appears to be in sufficient health, judging from Bill Clinton's recent visit there. "His health is a big issue, but obviously we didn't have any time to make an assessment there," said Jones. "But he seemed in control of his faculties. And the president, the former president was able to engage him on a number of subjects."
GOP Congressman Attacks Obama For "Enemies List," And Birth Certificate
Rep. John Sullivan (R-OK) told a Tulsa Republican Club event that this is a "scary time" in Washington. "It's a very frightening time. I see Barack Obama is creating an enemies list of people who oppose this miserable health care plan. I think that's frightening," said Sullivan. "That's from a guy that can't even show a long-form birth certificate. I think we all ought to be prepared to fight that."
Josh
Matt
Eric
Brian
Is the US on the Brink of Fascism?
August 9, 2009 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dear Newt, shut up. Just shut up. We've learned not to trust a GOP-led government who leaves folks in hurricane waters and who votes to go to war with flimsy reasons that we have since discovered were cooked up (and also pinpointed just which Congressional Democrats are just plain gullible). Are you seriously suggesting that nurses and doctors in this country will be actively participating in a "death plan"?
Have you been suffering mini-strokes and death of brain cells by the billions? What possible excuse could you have for such made-up nonsense?
August 9, 2009 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I found Newt's comments very revealing. Note he doesn't claim that the bill sets up a death panel.
The Death Panel is in the imagination of the proto-fascist, semi-literate, Evangelical angry fear filled right that has taken control of the GOP.
He doesn't care what the legislation provides and is quite up front about that
August 9, 2009 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I actually just had a very rewarding exchange with Newt Gingrich's organization (they called me) about this very subject.
Description of the conversation here:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/boo_lala/2009/08/oh-my-call-from-gingrich-1.php
August 9, 2009 4:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
So according to Newt, we can trust the government with nuclear weapons, but not paying for health insurance. It's all so clear now. Thanks Newt.
August 9, 2009 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
From Jon Cohn's blog
{Governor Palin} have you no decency?
http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_treatment/archive/2009/08/08/have-you-no-decency.aspx
August 9, 2009 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know, Sarah Palin might have just saved health reform. It might be just like the general election. If all of these so-called credible, establishment Republicans keep vouching for and defending her clearly insane and incendiary rhetoric, it will surely diminish their standing, and therefore anti-reform points, in the eyes of independents.
August 9, 2009 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
This just in from Mitch Stewart
August 9, 2009 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why does Obama insist on reaching out to these crazies for bipartisan reform. They are destroying his presidency. Dick Durbin hit the nail on the head and it’s a crime that media dolts George Stephanopoulos play into the wing nut lies that these whack jobs mobs are legit. This is just another perfect example of how the msm gets lead around like a puppy by the republicans. Did we forget the swift boaters? Our media are a bunch of ambulance chasers with absolutely no journalistic skill, honesty or integrity. A lazy bunch of rating whores who want to drive their cycles with lies rather then reporting on the facts. Stop making excuses for these cretins Stephanopoulos you look like an asshole
August 9, 2009 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's not fair re: GS today (though generally spot on)
The quoted comment above came from a flummoxed Newt, after GS confronted him with the fact that none of that crap is in the bill
August 9, 2009 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
The media wants ratings, however they come. Say what you want about the accuracy of the right's rantings, but they're evidently colorful enough to get viewers' attention. And that's all that matters to CNN, Fox News, etc.
August 9, 2009 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
The republicans cant win a debate on healthcare on its merit so they throw temper tantrums and who gives a shit what Palin says. She is a quitter with little to no intelligence or understanding of issues facing our country today. Paris Hilton has more creditability on the big issues
August 9, 2009 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Two real democratic reforms are necessary for any real "change we can believe in". Campaign finance reform and media reform.
Take the corruption of money out of politics and take back the airwaves from media plutocrats, and we can have debates on the real merits of an issue, as opposed to the monster truck rally mentality of corporate cable, where no how matter the ludicrousness of the right's assertion, it becomes a legitimate counter to the "left's" (read 75-80% of the American public on some issues), and becomes a he said she said.
"Taking the view that Jews are the locus of all evil in the world, our guest today, Senator Adolf Palin."
"Taking the contrary, Albert Einstein. Mr. Einstein, what do you say to the widespread charge, repeated by Senator Palin, that your people practice draining the blood from Christian children as they sleep?"
And on it goes...the fact that Newt Gingrich is treated like a credible figure of discourse, and that Sarah Palin is given attention and influence is beyond criminal. These are crypto-fascist demagogues who will say ANYTHING, with no consequence among their base for the most brazen lies...
August 9, 2009 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Campaign finance reform won't accomplish much more than it already has. No one, whether a human being or a corporation, can donate more that a fixed, relatively low amount to any campaign. What you see in the reports of insurance companies, for example, donating loads of money to Baucus, is, in fact, employees of insurance companies doing the donating, which is their right.
The much bigger problem is lobbying. Insurance and drug company lobbyists are handing out money and privileges to Congress like there is no tomorrow. That is the spigot that has to be closed down. But, only Congress can close it, and they are the beneficiaries of it, so that isn't going to happen. We elect folks with no morals to Congress and we get an immoral Congress - big surprise!
August 9, 2009 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think that was where he was going with the campaign finance reform. Why do you think the lobbyists throw all that money around, so that the pols can get reelected. I look at lobbying and campaign finance reform as one in the same. Get rid of the money in lobbying and that will reduce the influence of the corporate elites and give the power back to the people where it belongs.
August 9, 2009 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Only complete public financing of elections will affect any meaningful change on the cancerous state of U.S. non-representation. Until then we will continue to see a 98% re-election rate of members of the U.S. Congress; the return rate for Politburo Members in the old Soviet Union was only 92%.
Moreover, to have a truly representational government we would also have to institute preferential balloting. If Candidate X can win with a simple majority of votes in a three-way race, yet two-thirds of voters prefer Candidate Z over Candidate X, this doesn't allow true representation of the majority's wishes, much less make it possible to build any sort of consensus.
August 9, 2009 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
More specifically, you have to make state and federal campaigns in this country far less expensive, so third parties can win elections and actually force the two major parties to be honest. When a senate race in South Dakota costs $30 million (as happened with Thune and Daschle in 2004), you know campaigns are too expensive.
Right now, third party candidates can do little more than siphon votes away from the major party candidate they're closest to ideologically and make it easier for the other major party candidate to win. They don't have the money to get their message out thoroughly enough to do anything more. No third party candidate has won a U.S. senate election since 1970. It's been almost 200 years since someone other than a Democrat or a Republican has won the Presidency, and 40 years since a third party candidate even won an electoral vote. And Jesse Ventura is the only third party candidate to win a state governorship in the last 30 years, if not longer.
August 9, 2009 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
$30 million!?! Wow!
South Dakota Population: 770,883 (2004 Est)
August 9, 2009 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK, Bernie Sanders ran as an Independent instead of as a Socialist, but Joe Lieberman ran under his own "Connecticut for Lieberman" label - a third party.
August 9, 2009 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wouldn't count Lieberman as an example due to his old-school corporatist financing.
August 9, 2009 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
CONSERVATIVES SLAM PALIN ATTACK AS 'CRAZY'.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_08/019420.php
August 9, 2009 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Those criticisms aren't strong enough to be called slams. I like "dumb ass comment", "stupidest thing I've heard from her mouth", "why are we even talking about this idiot?"
By the way, after reading her entire comment, I think she only approved the statement. There is no way that she wrote that. Compare it to her quitting speech.
August 9, 2009 9:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who Says GOP's Against Health Reform: Supports Expanded Coverage for Venereal Disease
http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=8180
August 9, 2009 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Palin is more interested in keeping her name in the press by spewing her typical fear-inciting hyperbole than she is in contributing any meaningful, substantive input to a serious, rational discussion on health care reform legislation.
August 9, 2009 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
The House of Representatives needs to take action against the irresponsible accusations made by Rep. John Sullivan at the Tulsa Republican Club event. Spreading these type of lies about the government should not be allowed. Make him prove his accusations!
August 9, 2009 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Viva Chomsky
August 9, 2009 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Noam anise annile land.
August 9, 2009 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is a method to the Republican madness regarding "Death Panels", how effective it is remains to be seen. We saw this in the startup to the 1st Gulf War when the daughter of the Kuwati ambassador accused the Iraqis of taking babies out of incubators.
Nearly a hundred years ago During the first World War, German troops were accused of bayonetting babies.
None of these charges were true but that didn't matter, they had their intended effect. To defeat an enemy you must first dehumanize them in order mobilize your own forces.
Palin's comments were not directed at the American people in general, but toward her own support base. The fact that they were so over the top deranged, only ensured that they would be repeated by corporate media. Thus in turn getting them wider dissemination to more of her base.
By making this comment she is clearly signaling that she has no intention of running for public office again. It's hard to run on the indefensible. instead she is looking to cash in on her celebrity either with a book deal and or a talk radio spot.
August 9, 2009 4:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Newt Gingrich: "You are asking us to trust turning power over to the government," said Gingrich, "when there are clearly people in American who believe in establishing euthanasia, including selective standards."
Isn't it convenient that *now* Gingrich gets religion. For the 8 years the Bush administration steamrolled Congress and got everything it wanted (a crusade in Iraq) and the things it didn't want (oversight) and sought to create an imperial Presidency. Did Newt ever raise his voice against turning power over to the government?
There are "clearly people in America" who believe in anything you can name; the Earth is flat, the moon is made of green cheese and on and on. But what on earth does that have to do with the current health care debate? This is so far off topic to be ridiculous. I wish George Stephanopolous had the balls to laugh in Ginrich's face and ask him to leave the set. He makes no more sense than Orly Taitz. Why give him a forum to spout his hate?
August 9, 2009 4:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I actually just had a very rewarding exchange with Newt Gingrich's organization (they called me) about this very subject.
Description of the conversation here:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/boo_lala/2009/08/oh-my-call-from-gingrich-1.php
August 9, 2009 4:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps Dean and other Democrats can get an ORGANIZED campaign going of Top Ten Reasons to Ignore Republicans. Palin and others propagate gross lies, and they should be called lies. Not half-truths or "Outlandish Claims." I know POTUS can't engage with tougher words, but come one Dems, show some b@lls for once.
August 9, 2009 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is fucking insane. Sarah "I'm a foreign policy expert because I can see Alaska" Palin is now pretending she's a health policy expert because she read something INSANE on the internet.
They're accusing the President of the United States and the Democratic majority of setting up "death panels." This is insane. There is NO reading of ANY bill that can justify this. There is no out of context quote that can be twisted to support this.
This is like Obama's birth certificate--they can mis-quote and lie to make it sound like there's something here, but it is INSANE.
And it says much more about the person making this allegation than anyone else.
Sarah Palin is a known, proven liar. And a cyical, sick rabble-rouser. Who's certainly not above exploiting her own children. And now she's using that same approach--lie, inflame, and exploit her kids--to try and kill healthcare reform because that would be good for her political career.
And she's making up stuff about death panels. Staffed, I believe, by Darth Vader's stormtroopers.
There are real children with Down's syndrome all over this country whose parents can't afford health insurance. There are millions of American children born without Down's syndrome who are uninsured. There are 45 MILLION people who can't get the health care they need.
Sarah Palin needs to stop lying.
August 9, 2009 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's not much you can do as long as the Democratic Party is incapable of articulating a message.
I was in Des Moines over the weekend and the local news covered Tom Harkin's town meeting with what seemed to be an effort to be fair, no bias evident. But you've got the looney at the meeting shouting "We don't want no government run healthcare" and you have Senator Harkin unable to speak a clear and succinct sound bite.
I blame the policy wonks and the centrists (of course I do). If we could simply, very simply, in one sentence simply say "This bill will expand Medicare to all Americans" or "This bill will provide for universal healthcare" -- you know something you can put in ONE sentence which conveys a message, that kind of thing, the thing the Republicans do so well.
We can't do that. We over complicate everything. We're afraid of simple common sense. We're afraid to articulate a clear difference.
No one has a clue what "healthcare reform" means and since they don't, death panels fill the void.
August 9, 2009 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bluebell, that is so true and aimed so accurately it should be carved on granite! And, the reason Democrats can't articulate a simple message is that most democrats don't favor the simple, obvious solutions to our problems. They only favor "solutions" that can be sold to the gullible voters, but which won't reduce the transfer of national wealth to the top 1% of the wealthy. They want their share of the wealth too, way more than they want to actually solve any problem. Unfotunately, Obama is one of those democrats.
August 9, 2009 9:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I have stopped believing that they are merely incompetent. They don't want to be competent. (I'm not blaming Tom Harkin there. He is one of the last few liberals left and he does have a genuine interest in healthcare but he can't stand against the entire party.)
August 9, 2009 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
You and bluebell should get a room.
August 9, 2009 10:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sunday Roundup: Republicans make stuff up. Media gives nonsense equal time. Different week, same story.
When one understands the role of Republican Party ideology, and how fabrications and propaganda are key to protecting wealth, then it makes sense that blabbering sphincters like Gingrich and Palin muddy up the waters.
Protecting wealth is NOT a profound political ideology. Making stuff up is what people do when facts and logic and evidence seem to suggest different solutions.
The real story is capitalism has swamped Democracy and that we no longer have a Congress or a President but a Constitutional Dictatorship. Other than that, have a nice weekend.
August 9, 2009 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking of incoherent inadequate messages, let me update you all on my latest letter from Senator Amy. Many of you respond to my rants telling me to talk to my represenatives and work for change. Alas, I continue to do so - to no avail. No avail at all.
Senator Amy is still on her "more accessible" message. Hasn't moved an inch towards universal healthcare - not an inch. You may recall I have written many times about how Senator Amy told us that universal healthcare is "unrealistic".
Sarah is not our problem. Sarah is not in the Senate. Our problem is the Democratic Party whose message is something like "we got ours, so f**k you."
Sorry for yet another rant, but these folks do not give a damn. They do not.
August 9, 2009 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
>>Many of you respond to my rants telling me to talk to my represenatives and work for change. >>
LOL! Your rants are mostly IGNORED. The fact that you don't realize that proves you don't know what a joke you've become here.
See, that's what happens when you can ONLY find fault with everything and everybody and never have anything substantive to add to any discussion.
August 9, 2009 8:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
She provides data on how her reps are responding. What do you do?
August 9, 2009 11:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
In spite of what Freerider thinks, Bluebell does speak truth. If our Democrats truly wanted to solve the health care crisis, and it is a crisis, they would simply pass a universal care, single payer system, and tell the Repubs to go take a flying leap. Sure, there are some Democrats who want to solve problems, but the majority just want to get their share, and pass along enough pork to their states that they can be assured of a lifetime job in Congress. Failure to recognize this is difficult to understand.
August 9, 2009 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
How can anyone still expect to pass single payer when we can't even get enough votes for a strong public option?
August 9, 2009 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Shorter - "My Senator won't do exactly as I demand, therefore we have no democracy in this country".
I'm hard pressed to find an inch of difference between your attitude and that of a tea-bagger. Grow up.
August 9, 2009 9:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
True dat!
August 9, 2009 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Two Minnesota Senators who will be supporting the healthcare bill in whatever form it lands in, and you're whining about it?
There has been slow additions to healthcare coverage that the Dems have led (with GOP support, I might add)like covering children as just one example. The legislation that will emerge this fall will establish universal healthcare as a value--it is one that every sane American will fall in love with after its first year, IMHO.
Social Security passed under FDR was certainly NOT what it is today--but the value was established and it was built on. Is this a hard concept for you?
August 9, 2009 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know about whining. Now voting is another thing. I did not vote for Senator Amy. I voted for some Green fellow whose name I do not remember. I did so because Amy told me that universal healthcare is unrealistic and she has not changed her position.
As to the value, that is really what I'm writing about here. The value is universal healthcare. The value I am opposing here is the value of Senator Amy whose value tells her that universal healthcare is unrealistic. That is the value I oppose and that is why she will never get my vote until she has a change of heart.
As to Minnesota Senators voting for the bill - that depends on the bill. I'm not convinced it will be a bill that deserves support.
August 9, 2009 10:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
And another thing -- while I'm on a good rant -- if Senator Amy was able to explain this bill concisely, she wouldn't have to send me a page of mush that doesn't even have anything to do with the bill. That is where the party is today. The people who should be selling the bill you claim you want, aren't even doing it NOW. Amy is supposed to be a progressive. She is to this day unwilling to even respond to a constitutent with a clearly worded paragraph supporting the bill. She is unwilling to make even that kind of commitment. You tell me two Minnesota senators are going to vote for it. Amy isn't telling me she is going to vote for it. She isn't even discussing it. She's just sending out general purpose nonsense on healthcare.
And you are blaming ME?
If this bill doesn't pass it won't be because of me and my fellow liberals. Maybe somebody ought to tell Rahm what kind of spam his favorite Senators are sending constituents because it sure isn't anything supporting the administration's bill. If the administration has a bill. Everyone seems to be very afraid of any bill. And you wonder why I'm afraid of the bill?
August 9, 2009 10:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
She gives you gobbledygook because (a) she knows you didn't vote for her, (b) she knows people like you want "causes" not "solutions" and (c) you're a total nutbag.
Given the crap you post here, it's easy to imagine the kind of crap you must send to your reps. They probably use tongs to hold the paper! LOL.
August 9, 2009 10:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Amy's literature is having this effect on Bluebell who wants universal health care, just how persuasive do you think it might be with folks who don't want health care reform?
Think what you want about Bluebell, the important data point is that Sen. Amy is blowing it.
August 9, 2009 11:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Problem with all this is there's no chance of single payer getting passed at any time right now. How do you expect to pass single payer if were having trouble just getting a public option passed. It sucks it really does, but that's life. Think of the big picture instead of the smaller picture that people like bluebell always looks into.
Don't worry about the MN Senators. They'll be there for healthcare reform. Both of them (I know I can't believe I said that, "both") aren't obstructionists like Baucus and Conrad.
I would take bluebell's opinions more seriously if she actually contributed something to the conversation once in a while. Hard to gain credability when all you do is piss and moan about everything around you and offer so real solutions.
Also those were some good points you made Freerider, Viva america and Cube3u. Good job.
With that I have said my two cents on the matter and would like to wish everyone a happy monday (if there's anything happy about monday's).I'm not here to stars fights with anyone who disagree with me, I juat had to say something on the matter and said I did. I fell much better that I got my opinions across.
Take care everyone.
August 10, 2009 4:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
I like Howard Dean, but he blew it with his mild comment about Palin's "Death panel". Dean's comment will be forgotten, unmentioned by the media.
Now, if Dean had said "Sarah Palin is a liar", or "Sarah Palin is lying about death panels" it probably would have caused a storm in the media and given Democrats the opportunity to call the spade a spade.
August 10, 2009 8:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Make her defend her bullshit.
August 10, 2009 8:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
First appointment to Death Panel.
See:
http://notionscapital.wordpress.com/2009/08/09/paula-abdul-named-to-obama-death-panel/
August 10, 2009 10:40 AM | Reply | Permalink