Early Poll Data: Half Of All Virginia Voters Are Birthers
Remember that Daily Kos/Research 2000 poll that showed how many Southerners -- mainly Southern whites -- don't believe President Obama was born in the United States? Well now check out some early data from an upcoming survey by Public Policy Polling (D) of Virginia, the northernmost part of the Old Confederacy.
Here's what PPP communications director Tom Jensen wrote on Friday: "In a result making me want to bang my head against the table, the first round of calls for our Virginia poll this afternoon founds voters in the state almost evenly split on whether they thought the President was born in the US."
The full result for this question will be released on Wednesday. Jensen added that PPP will be polling North Carolina this week -- the state where they are based -- and will be sure to put in a question about this.
Late Update: Some early numbers of the state's self-identified Republican voters: A 41% plurality say Obama was not born in the United States, to 32% who say he was, and 27% who are not sure.


















OMG how embarrassing.
Thank God I live in communist Virginia.
August 3, 2009 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
I grew up in Navy/Surfing Virginia that doesn't now what it is politically but I have to agree; thank God I live in norther.. sorry communist Virginia too!
August 3, 2009 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
There has to be a "whistling Dixie" joke in all of this somewhere...
August 3, 2009 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Okay North Carolinians, time to start a pool on the NC results. My picks, plus or minus the margin of error of the poll: Western NC--60 - 70% birthers. Charlotte area, 50%. Piedmont, 45-55%. Triangle 25%. Eastern NC, 40%.
August 3, 2009 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do you think you may be being a little too hard on the Piedmont? Of course, the numbers there may well be inflated by people who'll perversely claim to be birthers even though they don't believe it for a minute.
I feel reasonably certain Western NC will fare better than you suggest -- Asheville, at least, is a bastion of enlightenment.
August 3, 2009 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
"will be sure to put in a question about this."
Clarification, from the link Eric provided:
"We're polling North Carolina next week, and I am almost definitely going to throw a question on there asking people whether they think Hawaii is a state or not."
Not quite the same as asking if Obama was born in the US.
And polls don't usually require logical consistency between answers to pairs of questions.
August 3, 2009 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
NC is no bastion of wisdom, but having lived both places, I'd guess the Tar Heel State is considerably less arrogant and therefore perhaps slightly less willfully ignorant than Virginia. Just a guess.
August 3, 2009 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
You'll get no argument from me, TCFKANCS. Even though things have improved, 30 years of Helms taught me not to "misunderestimate" the rampant stupidity and hate around here.
The bigger question is, as I see it, when are people (commentors, bloggers, reporters, etc.) going to start calling this what it is? Folks, the word is treason. I mean it. When you call into question the legitimacy of the President of the United States or any other duly elected Constitutional official when you have ZERO factual basis to do so and when, in fact, you and your like have been presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that is treason.
Here is a Merriam Webster definition " the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family". As far as I am concerned, the shoe fits.
To me, the ONLY purpose the birthers have, whether they consciously realize it or not, is to create an atmosphere of de-legitimacy that encourages an armed crazy to feel justified in attacking the President. That is why Senator McCain, in probably the noblest act of his in the past 5 years, directly challenged this idea when it was budding last year. He recognized the threat and confronted it.
Most of these folks don't dare utter their bile in mixed (non-birther) company. If you catch them, call them out on it.
August 3, 2009 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think McCain was all that noble. I recall the Secret Service becoming very concerned publicly about the hate speech coming from the Republicans. It was just after that when McCain tempered some of the flames. Clearly his campaign was given a talk to by the Secret Service with regards to threats on Obama. McCain did nothing to stop the hate speech coming from Palin or others up until then.
August 3, 2009 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think that "McCain" and "noble" could be used in any positive construction. Notice that McGrumpy has done nothing to rein in the birther whackos this summer. One could make the case that he's been dumbstruck by the sheer madness of it all, but he is a party elder with some notional responsibility, so you could reasonably expect him to take the high road. I suspect that he's been off that road so long that he doesn't know (or want to know) his way back.
August 3, 2009 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
When polls are cited they need to specify what questions were asked, when were they asked, who did they ask, who asked them, etc. Otherwise they are worthless. Poll results can change dramatically by the way questions are asked. For example, you could ask "Do you believe the president of the US is a fraud and has no right to be president because he wasn't born here" might get a low yes result. But if you ask "Has anything led you to believe that the president might not have been born here" might get a high result. Without knowing the specifics we can't know how bad or prevalent this is. Bias can determine the results of these things. Karl Rove was the master of the fake poll questions which eventually led to the push polls.
August 3, 2009 11:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Generally, I prefer relatively neutral language for polling questions, but, in this case, I would prefer the question be asked in the strongest form possible so that there is no doubt whatsoever about those who answered the question refusing Obama's legitimacy as President. That would give a much better idea of where the hard-care birther movement stands. I suspect it would be fairly low, even in the South, because allowing some doubt is an easy position to hold (because you can disown the full consequences of that doubt); and the birther movement has, to some extent, used that ease to its advantage—making the movement appear stronger than it is (and it becomes stronger because it appears stronger).
August 3, 2009 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is no joke.
If this many people need to find a (ANY)reason to keep their hate of black americans alive, what do you think will be required to maintain that hate level?
There is no question violence from this crowd will follow.
August 3, 2009 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
That the birther bigots owuld be centered in the South is no suprise. It's about time Americans faced the truth about Southern whites. Southern whites have been a cross for this nation to bear from day one. They are an ignorant, violent, catered-to minority who have caused, through their temper tantrums when they haven't had their way, untold misery for everyone else.
August 3, 2009 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen, well-put. As a gay New Yorker, I had the misfortune to spend a number of weeks at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in GA, some years ago. It was an unfathomably hostile environment, brimming with all manner of bigotry. Among my instructors was an Assistant US Attorney from Atlanta, who was one of the most prejudiced individuals I have ever encountered...and he was conscientiously indoctrinating federal agents to foment anti-gay bigotry.
August 3, 2009 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Generalize much?
Love,
A Southern White.
August 3, 2009 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry A but if the shoe fits, WEAR IT!
There is absolutely no doubt that souther whites are generally the most willfully ignorant bigoted group in America. They were the devote followers of George Bush, they vote overwhelmingly Republican, they are fat, uneducated, love guns, and hate everything more sophisticated than beer and baloney. If hundreds of thousands of Americans had not been slaughtered in the Civil War they would probably still want to own slaves or at best live in a segregated society. Northern Liberals have had to kick their sorry asses every god damned step down the road. Now they are the welfare states that suck money from the Big Blue states and bitch and moan about our smart young President and the progress he represents. Honestly I wish we had lost the Civil War and gotten these ignorant rubes out of our body politic like the festering cancer that they are. A recent survey of Republicans in Texas found that half of them would like the state to succeed from the Union like their fascist christian governor has suggested.
GO! Please GO!
August 3, 2009 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, you've certainly convinced me. Until now, I didn't realize what a bigot I am and how richly I deserve your famous non-bigoted, open-minded ass-kickin'. But I have seen the error of my ways.
I'm still having trouble with one thing, though: figuring how Obama might have fared if, say, you had traded North Carolina and Virginia for a few additional Kansases, Missouris, Nebraskas, etc.?
August 3, 2009 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are OBVIOUSLY lots of well educated, liberal, fact based people just like yourself living in the South. But the polls taken recently point to a HUGE number of idiots clustered in the South relating to this birther issue. I do not know why you think it is necessary to make this personal or an all-or-nothing argument.
Again sweet A, of course there are smart people in the South just like you and just like everywhere else ..... but they are vastly OUTNUMBERED by the complete bigoted idiots. The culture in the South is very very hostile to progressive ideas. They go ahead then and elect complete idiots to represent them in Congress and the rest of America suffers. Why not do something to drag your beloved South out of the Dark Ages instead of pretending it is not so? You live in the intellectual backwater of America and just denying it on liberal web sites accomplishes nothing.
August 3, 2009 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Honestly I wish we had lost the Civil War and gotten these ignorant rubes out of our body politic like the festering cancer that they are."
You said that and object to my taking exception? As to my efforts to enlighten my fellow citizens, it's just possible that my work on the Obama campaign, and my family's, may have generated enough votes to turn NC blue. Can you say as much? Or were you simply privileged to be born in a blue state?
Climb off that high horse, General Sherman.
August 3, 2009 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I live in Boston and I have two words for you:
Justin Barrett
August 3, 2009 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
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wish
August 3, 2009 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
The view to the horizon is clearer in VA because half the population, bent over so as to drag knuckles, provides a more unobstructed perspective.
August 3, 2009 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
The birthers can always deny the evidence and continue to claim to believe Obama is not a citizen and they will do so because that is what they want to believe. There is no cost to them to try to de-legitimize the president with this nonsense. They can use this stupid idea to feel good about their feelings of fear and loathing.
If god were to appear and gather all the birthers and tell them that he knew the truth absolutely and they must answer to him whether or not Obama was a natural born citizen and those who gave the correct answer would have eternal salvation and those who gave the wrong answer would go straight to hell, it is my belief that virtually every one of them would answer correctly.
August 3, 2009 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I live in Virginia, so I am part of the half that KNOWS Obama was born in Hawaii to an American citizen, and is both a citizen by blood and by place.
But this issue really hi-lights the differences between the two major political coalitions different philosophies about epistemology. To the side I am part of, facts rule. We use the scientific method to obtain more facts, better facts, more trustworthy and verifiable facts. The facts are weapons to be used to demolish false paradigms, myths, and mystifications from those who lay claim to authority.
It is just the opposite with the other side. They seek out bona fide authorities. People they can trust, to tell them how it is. In order to be recognized, you have to have the symbol of authority--but if you show it, they will submit to your authority without question, and will accept anything that you tell them. No amount of facts will change their convictions. Facts have no authority with them. Only if one of their recognized authorities say it is so will it be so. Their convictions are before the fact. Our opinions are after the fact. This is the whole thing in a nutshell.
The fact that so many of the Right's so-called authorities have asserted that their are problems with the 'birth' issue is the source of all of this doubt in the face of overwhelming legal evidence to the contrary.And until Rush Limbaugh or Dick Cheney assert Obama was born in Hawaii to an American citizen, the birthers will continue in their folly.
August 3, 2009 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very interesting analysis. I always suspect the inclination to be "conservative" is some personality issue that is better addressed with behavioral framing than political tit-for-tat. WE NEED SOME RESEARCH!
August 3, 2009 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am quite certain this statement is being misintrepreted, based on actual numbers leaked last week.
Half of all Virginians DO NOT BELIEVE Obama wasn't born in this country. The number who do believe that combined with the number who don't know is about equal to the number who believe he was born in the U.S. That is not the same as saying "half of all Virginians are birthers." This is a big distortion and I think the headline needs modification. Obviously from the update, even if 41% of repubs believe this nonsense, that can't possibly equal half of everyone in the state.
August 3, 2009 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
The report is about half of all voters, not the whole VA population.
August 3, 2009 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Washington, Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe -- none of them was born in the United States.
Virginia Is For Retards.
August 3, 2009 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
probably using Rasmussan formulae......
August 3, 2009 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not a polling professional, but I wonder if there is a reasonable question that can further determine the sanity of the birthers, such as " do you believe Obama might be from another planet?", or "Do you believe Obama might be a planted Al Queda agent?"
There's probably a better question to ask. I'd love to see the correlation between those that answer yes on both the birther and the other undeniably whacko question too.
August 3, 2009 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's something to consider. Just by the virtue of the Baggers repeatedly forwarding birfer claims, somehow it's entered into the realm of plausibility. Because in what world is the the theory that Obama is a Muslim-socialist plant from Kenya sent to the United States to illegitimately become President to destroy the United States not an "undeniably whacko" idea?
Not a criticism of you, dustbunny, but just making a note of how we should be careful not to be pulled into that frame by sheer repetition.
August 3, 2009 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is this half of all republicans or does it include Dems?
August 3, 2009 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
1. the birther doubts and beliefs are racist--a kind of racial profiling, I think. That is, using legal arguments that sound "rational" but are motivated on a feeling of suspicion based on racial stereotypes.
2. does not exclude, though, that these doubts are also about ignorance, as the "epistemology" commenter above indicated. 40% of folks polled in a Science Mag poll rejected Evolution as a theory. 44-47% of folks polled by Gallup in past 25 years believe humans were placed on earth as is less than 10,000 years ago.
August 3, 2009 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Isn't it interesting that the same people who question Obama's Hawaii birth certificate are the same people who defended Bush's questionable Texas National Guard service?
August 3, 2009 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a white, southern LIBERAL, I am stunned at the lack of opprobrium towards the up-thread comment by "hollywood". Imagine what the response would have been if someone had made similar generalizations and libelous sterotypes towards women or an ethnic/racial minority? I have no more control over who my ancestors were or what they did or didn't do than you do. I am pretty certain that we barred placing the debts of the parents onto their children in this country , oooh, about 225 years ago.
Bugger of, "hollywood". You are a disgrace to the terms "liberal", "progressive" or "Democrat". At least the lack of tolerance on the part of conservatives can be understood. After all, they don't know any better. You, in theory, should know better. Obviously, the theory is wrong.
August 3, 2009 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree completely and offer sincerest apologies to anyone I might have offended with my intemperate remarks about Virginia(I am still trying to get over living there when Jim Gilmore was the elected Governor, and it is not at all easy). In truth, although Virginia (like every other state has its share of the unenlightened, the state was blue in 2008, and like my own NC is moving in the right direction.
August 3, 2009 3:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
What a bunch of crap. Do you know what "tolerating" bigotry leads to??? It leads to a bullshit society that does not know fact from opinion or evolutionary biology from Bible quotations.
You are the exact problem with Liberals everywhere in that when a fact of ignorance needs to be cleared up, you resort to crying about accidents of birth or whatever it takes to muddy the waters and MISS THE WHOLE DAMN POINT! BIRTHERS ARE MORONS!
If you live in a part of the country where Birthers outnumber fact based folk then I feel sorry for you, I really do, but calling me a disgrace for pointing it out is just KILLING THE MESSENGER because you do not like the message.
I would like this polling done in all 50 states (yes Hawaii is a state) to find out with undeniable hard cold facts just where the idiots are and are not. Logical consideration would seem to require that wouldn't it?
August 3, 2009 5:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's killing the messenger? You're throwing the baby out with the bath water.
August 3, 2009 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
big·ot (ˈbi-gət): a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices ; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group, such as white southerners) with hatred and intolerance.
August 3, 2009 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Until I am blue in the face .....
It is the OVERWHELMING BIGOTRY of white southerners that I object to. I am not a bigot for not tolerating bigotry. Your logic just escapes me. I moved to the most liberal place in America to escape the bigotry of the small town I grew up in. I used to fear for my life and I do not anymore. I can understand your pride as a white southerner but to deny the culture of bigotry that exists down there just helps no one. When North Carolina passes a gay marriage amendment to the state constitution you call me Official A and we will have a beer. Cheers.
August 3, 2009 7:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know you probably didn't mean to damn all white southerners. But you suggested the shoe of bigotry fitted me and that I should wear it. Where I come from, that is prejudice.
I am not proud of being a white southerner. I am proud of being a human being (secular humanist variety, thank you). I just happen to be a white southerner. My children are also white southerners. I object to them being lumped into the category of the fat, ignorant, and bigoted simply because of where they were born. Although you escaped a small town where you feared for your life because of who you were, you suggest that the U.S. would be better off without me and my family. Should I be afraid, too?
You accused me of tolerating a culture of bigotry. I don't think you have any evidence to support that charge. Nor do you know, except by suspect polling numbers and supposition, that I am in fact surrounded by a culture of bigotry.
I repeat: NC and VA were blue in 2008. Where is your outrage over red states like Kansas and Nebraska?
Glad to have a beer with you right now in any state that has passed a gay marriage amendment. Unfortunately, even outside the south the choice of venues will be limited.
Cheers to you.
August 4, 2009 9:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
IT'S OFFICIAL - Birthers Are Morons!
The Daily Kos/Research 2000 poll, just completed in Virginia, shows a whopping 41% of the Republicans don't believe Obama was born in the United Sates. Here are some other polls showing the true brilliance of the right wing.
NUMBERS:
(1) A Washington Post poll showed an amazing 69% still believed Saddam Hussein was involved in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
(2) A Knight Ridder poll reported that 34 percent of Americans believed WMD have been found in Iraq.
(3) Another poll taken by the Knowledge Networks showed 23% actually believed those chemical and biological weapons were used against U S forces in Iraq.
.
Of course there is not a shred of evidence that any of the above are even remotely true.
BREAKDOWN:
Of the 28% of the Republicans listed above (the birthers), these conclusions can be drawn.
(1) 47% are profound morons
(2) 14% are radical rightwing bigoted war mongers.
(3) 39% are "spoon-fed" SHEEP. People stupid enough to fall victim to Rush Limbaugh's public relations propaganda.
Finally each of you Republicans can now select your proper category.
[A] I'm a moron.
[B] I'm a radical rightwing bigoted war monger.
[C] I don't know *
* Which means you are a moron, select [A].
August 3, 2009 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
If they have nothing else to hold on to against Obama can you blame them? Never mind all the issues facing our nation, disrespecting US gov documents is just another way for their wishful thinking.
Wake them up in 2016!!!!!!!
August 3, 2009 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd be interested to learn how many of those polled actually cared where Obama was born.
August 3, 2009 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder if this will hurt us badly in 2012. Yes most of the country doesn't believe this but that doesn't mean they will be Obama voters. Moreover the heavy population centers in the blue states won't give him more electoral votes. Birthers will flip states like Florida, Indiana, Virginia, Ohio.
August 3, 2009 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Birthers all voted for Bush, twice, and also all voted for McCain and Palin. The effort to tear down Obama will never end, but I hope for the sake of America that the smart people do not loose Hope.
August 3, 2009 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's recall that Obama _won_ Virginia.
Thinks how bad this problem is in the deeply red states.
August 3, 2009 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm always amazed at some people's ability to believe something no matter how much evidence to the contrary. There are people where I work that still believe that Saddam had WMD and that he had something to do with 911. It simply doesn't matter how many times you tell them it's not true because their gut tells them it is.
August 3, 2009 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
It isn't that there gut tells them these myths. Their trusted leaders do. Their trusted leaders would never lie to them. It's the foundation of many of the world's religions.
That's what I like about science. I can run the experiment myself, and see if I get the same results...trust no one.
August 4, 2009 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
This blogger at politijab appears to have dug up a birth certificate from 1964 that was used as the template to forge the "Kenyan" birth certificate. He found it on a genealogy website and provides a link to where he found it. It's actually from Australia. Pretty interesting.
http://politijab.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2099#p54695
August 3, 2009 9:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's just like I've always said, Republicans are retarded. (sorry retarded people for my political incorrectness).
August 4, 2009 12:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am ashamed of America. So many of our citizens are ignorant, violent fools, and there seems to be nothing we can do about it. The experiment has failed.
August 4, 2009 7:01 AM | Reply | Permalink