Town Hall Attendee Tells Specter: "One Day, God's Gonna Stand Before You"
An angry man just confronted Sen. Arlen Specter (D-PA) at a town hall meeting in Lebanon, Pennsylvania.
The man was nearly in a physical fight with another attendee, and some shoving was involved. Specter calmed everyone down before it got out of hand, and then the man confronted the Senator with a speech about how he doesn't have the ability to influence his government like special interests in Washington do.
"One day, God's gonna stand before you," the man concluded. "And he's gonna judge you and the rest of your damn cronies up on the Hill -- and the rest of your damn cronies up on the hill -- and then you can get your just desserts."
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Josh
Matt
Eric
Brian
Isn't it the other way around?
August 11, 2009 10:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not in their world! To these folks, God is a Birther!
August 11, 2009 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly, I always pictured the Almighty seated. Why would he stand for me? Or Arlen?
I figured the only person God would stand up for was Mother Theresa, and for the sole purpose of giving her a hug.
August 11, 2009 10:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can't even get their ranting right. This guy needs to come home to Jesus and learn to love his neighbor as himself.
August 11, 2009 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
He needs to learn to love himself. Of course, Rick Santorum may have something to say about that!
August 11, 2009 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're assuming God is bipedal?
August 11, 2009 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
You mean, "one day dog's gonna stand before you"??
I think this point is irrelevant, if I may be so irreverent. This guy's clearly one of the sad follower types, who have chosen, for simplicity, to limit themselves to certain sources of information. And those sources have victimized these people and whipped them into a frenzy with their distortions and outright lies.
It's just a hair's breadth short of incitement. I fear we will have some violence soon, and the blood will be on the hands of Sarah Palin, Rush Limpbaugh, Newt Gin-grinch, and the rest of them.
-- ARG
August 11, 2009 10:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
You can't fix stupid.
August 11, 2009 10:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
I hear the Japanese are working on a process to make electricity from stupid, though it's not cost effective yet.
August 11, 2009 11:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good catch. Not surprising he reversed the order for most of these Christianists commit the same sin - idolatry - they make god (little "g") in their image, when it is the other way around
Very revealing
GO ARLEN!
August 11, 2009 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, CT, that's the way it always is beyond their looking glass.
August 11, 2009 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!! Exactly the thought I had. "You mean Specter gets to judge God? Wow, who knew??"
August 11, 2009 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's what you get for trying to talk commom sense to the Lebanese people.
August 11, 2009 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
And yet this man can vote and own property.
August 11, 2009 10:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
and a gun too
August 11, 2009 10:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
All of this crap is making me nervous. It wouldn't be so mortifying if any of these "protesters" had anything coherent to rail about. Instead it's elder euthanasia, Kenyan birth certificates, etc...
It really seems to get down to some angry backlash at the different "other" who now runs the show. They won't be having any of THAT!!! Big people tantrums are ugly and dangerous.
August 11, 2009 10:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Backlash is what they do. It's all they do. It is getting worse though. I'm not quite as nervous as you, but I drink a lot.
August 11, 2009 10:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama getting elected was nothing more than the harbinger of what's to come. Within the next 10 to 15 years, white folk will be the minority in the US and that has them scared. Why do you think the sudden urgency to secure our borders with Mexico came to a head last year?. Mexican Americans will be that new majority.
August 11, 2009 10:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, not quite. Yes, whites will soon be a minority. But hispanics (all, not just Mexican-American) only accounted for 15% of the population in 2006, and are expected to be 18% by 2020. There's not really any near- or medium-term prospect of them being a majority.
Anyway, your larger point is well-taken; the angry-rural-white bloc is frighteningly analogous to the Civil War South. The tinderbox back then wasn't fear of abolition (in the immediate term...Lincoln probably lacked the votes for it) so much as recognition that the South was no longer a necessary component of a working political coalition. The rich plantation owners were used to wielding political power roughly equal to the rest of the country combined, much like crazy rural wingers are now. Hence all the rhetoric about "taking our country back." In both cases they fairly suddenly lost that power, as made apparent by the election of a President who was complete anathema to them and was elected completely without their support.
We probably won't see another Civil War over this simply because the geography doesn't work out. But if you like to be scared witless, here's something to chew on: http://www.alternet.org/politics/141819/is_the_u.s._on_the_brink_of_fascism/
August 11, 2009 12:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, I accessed the link. Thx for the point to a well considered essay. I confess it doesn't frighten me any more than I already have been for a bit. I am old. I assure you, there is a feel in the air akin to that of the early to mid 60's, (I imagine you know your history). Only now it's worse. I don't like the morphology.
August 12, 2009 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Melissa Harris-Lacewell (I just love her) cited some interesting academic work on Rachel Maddow the other night. It showed how people who are generally disconnected from political discourse and the public square get frightened when contentious issues come up and they then tend to turn to authoritarian figures and arguments. Sure explained a lot to me.
It is obvious from listening to the tea baggers that they are uninformed. Not stupid necessarily, but "ignorant" in the sense that they know nothing at all about our government, how laws are made, what the situation is in health insurance today, etc. They hear the shouting from the ReThuglican Noise Machine and they get all worked up and frightened and turn to the authoritarians like Lameball and O'Lielly and Faux News in general and Dick Armey and his crew who are more than willing to 1) frighten them, and then 2) tell them what to do.
What's the answer? I have no idea. You can't force feed civics into the head of someone who just wants to watch American Idol.
August 11, 2009 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
We may be past the point of no return in America. There's just too many dumb people.
August 11, 2009 10:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Where's the vid?
August 11, 2009 10:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
First the disruptor says something realistic, then negates his point by descending into mythology with his religious spout.
August 11, 2009 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Doesn't this man know Specter's not a Christian? In the event, then, the Senator was already going to be judged harshly.
August 11, 2009 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm about 30 miles east of Lebanon.
Nut Country up there.
August 11, 2009 10:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
I grew up in Old Forge about 75 miles northeast of Lebanon and believe me it is nut country and it hasn't changed a bit since I left many many years ago. I still have some family there.
August 11, 2009 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
These fundamentalist wacko's should go to the tribal region in northern Waziristan and take their guns, Mullah Limbaugh and their self-righteous aggression with them.
They need a new warlord now that their man, Bible thumping George W. Bush, is no longer in the killing business.
August 11, 2009 10:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
I certainly glad the "angry man" clarified his position. This is clearly about after judgement sweets.
Point of order, would not Specter stand before God for his dessert?
August 11, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
What, is God the maître d'?
(Typo, Eric: It's "just deserts", not "just desserts".)
August 11, 2009 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
These must be the bitter people, clinging to guns and religion.
The stoopid- it burns!
August 11, 2009 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, good point! I had almost forgotten about that brew-ha (speaking of nanostories).
I guess Obama's off-the-cuff statement out in San Francisco doesn't look so wrong now. Here we see them, in all their glory. Bitter. And clinging.
-- ARG
August 11, 2009 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I lived in Lebanon in the late 80's, this is a very conservative and somewhat...ummm...let's just say that nobody in Lebanon County is splitting any atoms this morning.
While much of PA has entered into the 21st century - Carville's description is wildly incorrect - Lebanon remains firmly rooted in the 19th.
Why Specter would start there with the town halls is the question...this is totally predictable. The woodwork squeaks and out come the freaks.
August 11, 2009 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
wow. This town hall makes for great TEE VEE.
I've said it before--pound the facts harder than the uninformed pound their fists.
Also, to keep my sanity, I try to remind myself that just because the media is covering this circus, and fat cat corporate lobbyists for the insurance industry are funding it, doesn't mean it reflects the collective intelligence of 300 million Americans.
That was better demonstrated in November 2008.
August 11, 2009 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe that's what Sarah Palin means by "death panel."
August 11, 2009 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
:)
August 11, 2009 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Excuse me, but what did the guy say that was wrong or unreasonable? OK, he got toungue-tied at the end, probably did mean it the other way around. Aside from that, he said that Specter (or any of the others) wasn't interested in a word he had to say because he didn't have cash to stuff in his Specter's pockets. I feel exactly the same way. Oh yes, he was too "angry" -- can't have that. Maybe people do desperately cling to some notion of divine or karmic justice, because there doesn't seem to be any other kind. And yes, if you're an atheist, the last part sounded silly. So let's make fun of religious people -- that'll show them, and it's been working so well so far.
August 11, 2009 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with Metzengerstein, and I'm amazed that no one else has keyed in on this. We have here a man whose fundamental beef is that the government doesn't listen to the little guy, and what he gets here is contempt. My answer to him would be
"Sir, I agree! For too long we've had the best government money can buy. Big business has big government in its pocket and patriots like you and me are just supposed to shuffle along and watch while the life of this great country is sucked out in front of us. And that's why I support this reform effort, to kick back at companies that have been kicking the crap out of people, legally, for years and years.
Now maybe we end up on opposite sides of this issue, and that's ok, but I guaran-damn-tee you that I will stand arm in arm with you to make sure that we have a government for the people and not one for the profitable."
Wasn't the motto of Howard Dean's campaign "You have the power"?
August 11, 2009 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well stated.
August 11, 2009 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
wow, arlen sure has climbed the stature stairs if god is coming to stand before him....
August 11, 2009 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
I get the outrage, I think we are all outraged. I would love to tell a lot of those in Washington that they lie to us and pull that stuff all the time.
The problem is the looneyness of many of the electorate. There are many arguments to be made against the so-called health care reform actions taking place in Washington, but God's wrath isn't one.
To be fair, I think organizations such as Code Pink did so very good and useful work, but they could also be their own worst enemy. Many of these outraged citizens at the town hall meetings are not really serving anything and may in the end only make things worse for themselves - nothing like speaking the obvious.
August 11, 2009 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
So long as our national lexicon contains the phrase "crumbling schools," this will continue, and likely worsen. Violence is inevitable. May it miss anyone important.
August 11, 2009 11:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
There has to be a legal way to repress these seditionists. I hope the FBI is paying attention to this threat to our republic. This rebellion is beyond normal civic debate. These town halls are an attractive forums for mob rule. Mob action that endangers citizens if illegal. The ability of the civic body to control these forums wil be important. Obama needs to step up and urge all loyal Americans to stand up and say enough.
August 11, 2009 11:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am not in favor of loyalty tests. Nor am I a fan of repression, nor is sedition relevant in this century.
If folks want to clamor outside a venue, that's one thing, and that's the place for the lung-emptying bellows, including the display of Nazi imagry, which is protected speech, though I do not like it one bit. I support this to the full extent of my own rights.
The line needs to be drawn when citizens petition their leaders. Removal of disruptors by law enforcement is the best solution. Get them back out on the lawn if they need to have a tantrum. But do not lock them up for speaking their minds, however distasteful you find it, or YOU may be locked up one day yourself.
Because that's what it is: childish tantrums. Problem is, these kids are heavily armed.
The long-term solution requires the removal of the phrase "crumbling schools" from our national lexicon.
August 11, 2009 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed, completely. Make the rules of engagement clear at the beginning, and remove any who refuse to abide by them and persist in being disruptive. Refrain from arrest unless they begin to get violent or attempt to return after having been removed.
Also, it should be made clear that no guns will be allowed in the hall, and if necessary, put up metal detectors to screen them out as people enter. Citizens of a democracy should not need to fear for their lives when they go to a civic meeting.
August 11, 2009 4:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Only LeftWingers get put on hit lists, and get into the crosshairs of The Powers.
Rightwing crusaders NEVER get profiled. Never have legions of state and federal cops snooping on them and stringing them up when they go overboard. Nobody is infiltrating the TeaBaggers movement, yet every old Granny Brigade Against War group gets put on the FBI Lists and they spend millions snooping and infiltrating them.
This is pretty much the world over. Rightwing politics is that of the strong, the rich. Leftwing politics is that of the disposessed and the (relatively and politically speaking) weak. The Rightwingers persecute, jail, and kill the Leftwingers. Only in the greatest of upheavals and revolutions do the tables turn....and then it is only temporary and soon swings back to the rich running everything and squashing the left. So we get eternities of the Right with their boots on the necks of The Left, interspersed with very brief flashes of revolt and upheaval from The Left. And again, the Left remains in power only very briefly while the Rich (or New Rich) go back to monopolizing wealth, life, and the right to kill.
August 11, 2009 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keep the FBI out of it, unless there's credible threats. You really want to get the wingers in a froth? Have an army of Jackboots taking down names in the parking lot, that'll help.
August 11, 2009 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
There was no sedition there, just a guy who was tired of being ignored by government because he didn't pay for access telling his Senator that he was tired of it.
While I doubt that I agree with the guy on health care reform (in fact I don't seem to remember hearing his position, but I'll assume he wasn't a fan of single payer), or on the concept that Specter would have a mythical sky being stand before him (or vice versa), I can certainly agree with the basic sentiment.
August 11, 2009 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
are these frenzied mobs the same people who still think iraq was behind 9/11, president obama is a muslim, not born in the united states, palls around with old people and wants to kill old people? oh and i guess, he's black?
August 11, 2009 11:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Personally, I disagree with most of the comments on here. This guy didn't mention any of that deather or birther talking point.
To me, he simply sounded like an uneducated religious person genuinely frustrated with the clout that lobbyist have over government who was upset for not being allowed to speak.
And this is the problem with the deathers, that everyone who disagrees with the government on this issue is getting painted as a deather when for the most part, is not the case.
August 11, 2009 11:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. Arlen looked like he'd heard this line a thousand times before. There is no threat to letting people speak in turn. It's when we cede regular order that the doom begins.
August 11, 2009 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
How much you want to bet that guy believes Obama isn't a citizen, and is in fact a Muslim?
August 11, 2009 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry man, but prejudging is not my forte.
August 11, 2009 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
this guy may be a fourth-degree birther/deather wingnut, but I don't think he should have been grabbed and pushed aside like that. Who was that big guy in the white ballcap, anyway? Aren't these the tactics were fighting against?
August 11, 2009 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
We have a saying here in Pennsylvania about the makeup of our state. "Pittsburgh on the left, Philadelphia on the right, and West Virginia in the middle." The middle of the state can be a scary, backwards, uneducated, and ignorant place. In other words, Sarah Palin's base.
August 11, 2009 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Conflict = Money
More Conflict = More Money.
Simple. Keep the Money Train rollin' down the track. Get people yelling & screaming at each other, work up phony 'issues' in a non-election year, dope everybody up on media 'analysis' and then start tossing the money bags off the train and right into the hands of the politicians and lobbyists.
Can't wait until the gunfire starts. Imagine the RATINGS!
August 11, 2009 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think you've put your finger on it. We have finally progressed to the world that Network predicted. Howard Beale still hasn't made an empassioned speech yet.
August 11, 2009 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Who was that big guy in the white ballcap, anyway? Aren't these the tactics were fighting against?"
My first thought is that he was an attendee of this meeting who wanted fair repectable discussion and was sick of these insane Rush Limbaugh goofballs who seek only to disrupt.
Not saying that the shoving was the right thing to do, but I can almost see myself doing it.
It has to be noted: the ranting guy couldn't seem to make any point at all.
August 11, 2009 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, just wow. The terrorists have control of the plane.
August 11, 2009 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm with those who think this guy is more or less right -- he has been played a fool by Spector and his ilk, and I think he's quite right to be pissed that he was told he could speak, he prepared for it, then was told that there wasn't adequate time (or whatever). The little guy gets it on the chin all the time, and the problem is that too many people DON'T get angry. My politics are probably 180 degrees from this guy's, but in speaking truth to power I feel like we're on the same side.
I think Arlen's learning something about populism here. I wish both Repubs and Dems would think harder about who is supposed to represent the interests of ordinary citizens in the halls of power...
Oh, and if the religion stuff seems a little crazy, I'm sure he'd think your atheism is just as strange...
August 11, 2009 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree.
This guy said nothing about socialism, euthanasia, death panels, etc. Actually, within his rant, he hit the nail on the head about the lobbyist takeover of Washington while regular citizens get shut out.
August 11, 2009 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I watched some of this online (I think I saw about the last 15 or so questions). My first thought is that many people claimed to have read the entire House bill, but only asked about something in the first 40 - 60 pages. I doubt they read the entire bill.
Second, I used to think that these people were riled up over health care because they are being fed a bunch of misinformation about that issue. But, I don't think this is really about health care; it's bigger than that. I think this could be about any issue. These people have been led to believe that Obama and the Democrats are Socialists, and now that the "Socialists" are in power, they are "fighting back". If health care wasn't an issue right now, they'd be yelling about cap and trade. If it wasn't cap and trade, they'd be yelling about auto bailouts. And so on. The Republicans have been so successful in convincing them that their country is being taken over by Socialists that they are now just terrified.
August 11, 2009 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, and the most consistent (but not unexpected) thing is they couldn't define socialism (or communism or fascism, for that matter) if their lives depended on it.
August 11, 2009 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Got that right...just listen to Rush and he's their supposed leader and he can't differentiate between socialism, Nazism, communism and fascism...he kind of gets the far-right (Nazism and fascism) mixed up with the far-left (communism). I don't think he or the wing-nuts who listen to him understand the concepts.
August 11, 2009 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sez Arlen: "We've just had a demonstration of democracy."
Sez Me: Fuck you, Arlen."
August 11, 2009 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Ours is but to do and die"
"Not to question God... or his obedient apostles, Rush and Sean and ..."
August 11, 2009 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
In the end, this is all very sad. It is sad, and scary, that somehow the attempt to create greater access to healthcare, with any failings that might involve, is causing people to scream fire-and-brimstone at each other. I mean, what has happened to these people that they are reacting in this way?
http://www.enewse.com/
August 12, 2009 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
God, huh? Can God make these people shut their mouths, please? >.
August 12, 2009 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Health Reform town hall meetings are merely a vehicle to rant and rave and cause major disruption to gather people for the true perpose of raising all into an absolute frenzy.... BENEATH THE SURFACE THE TRUE PURPOSE IS RACISM .... WE DO NOT WANT A BLACK PRESIDENT! Work the frenzy powerful enough to encourage one of their stupid followers to justify assination. These people just accomplished exactly that with their rant on abortion and killed the Kansas abortion doctor, Dr. Tiller. All people should deem this most dangerous and do all possible to squelch their proposed plan.
August 13, 2009 10:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Amazing these two didn't get dragged out like that woman w/ the rosa parks poster.
August 14, 2009 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink