TPMDC

TPMDC Sunday Roundup

Share

Twitter Facebook Fark Reddit Send to a Friend

Send to a friend!

To email:    Your Name:    Your email:

Axelrod: Public Option A "Good Tool," But Shouldn't Define Whole Debate
Appearing on Meet The Press, White House Senior Advisor David Axelrod said that President Obama "believes the public option is a good tool." However, Axelrod also added, "It shouldn't define the whole health care debate, however."

Van Jones Resigns
Van Jones, President Obama's adviser on green jobs, has resigned in the wake of controversy surrounding past attacks on Republican, and his having signed a petition by 9/11 Truthers years ago. "On the eve of historic fights for health care and clean energy, opponents of reform have mounted a vicious smear campaign against me," Jones said in his resignation letter, also adding: "I cannot in good conscience ask my colleagues to expend precious time and energy defending or explaining my past. We need all hands on deck, fighting for the future."

Gibbs: People Will Know Where Obama Stands On Health Care
Appearing on This Week, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said that President Obama will make his case clearly on health care in his upcoming speech to Congress. "People will leave that speech knowing where [Obama] stands," said Gibbs, "and if it takes whatever to get health care done the president is ready willing and able to do that. We are closer George than we have ever been before."

Ben Nelson Supports Trigger Option -- But not "Hair Trigger"
Appearing on State of the Union, Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE) said he would support a "trigger" public option, which would kick in only if the market did not respond favorably to other reforms. "I don't mean a hair trigger," said Nelson. "I mean a true trigger - one that would only apply if there isn't the kind of competition in the business that we believe there would be."

Klobuchar: "I Would Like To See Us At 60" Rather Than Use Reconciliation
Appearing on State of the Union, Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) said she would prefer to not use reconciliation to enact health care reform. "I would like to see us at 60. I would like to see some bipartisan support for this bill," said Klobuchar. She later added: "The problem with going down to 50 is we just have more limited tools in terms of getting the kind of work that needs to get done to help people."

Duncan: If Obama's Speech Motivates One Student, "It's All Worth It"
Appearing on Face The Nation, Sec. of Education responded to criticism from the right over President Obama's upcoming address to schoolchildren. "At the end of the day, if the president motivates one C-student to become a B-student or one student who is thinking about dropping out to stay in school and take their education seriously, it's all worth it," said Duncan. He also added, "It's amazing to me the last time the president spoke to the nation's children was in 1991," and that 18 years is such a long time -- and perhaps subtly pointing out that the last President to do was a Republican, George H. W. Bush.

Alexander: Dem-Only Health Care Bill Like War Without Authorization
Appearing on Fox News Sunday, Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN) attacked the idea of the Democrats using reconciliation to pass health care -- likening it to waging war without Congressional authorization. "Thumbing their nose at the American people by ramming through a partisan bill would be the same thing as going to war without asking Congress' permission," he said. "You might technically be able to do it, but you'd pay a terrible price in the next election."

Dean: "If You Don't Use Your Majorities, You Lose Your Majorities"
Appearing on Fox News Sunday, former DNC Chairman Howard Dean called on President Obama and Congressional Democrats to be strong on health care. "The president is the president. He was elected by a very big majority," said Dean. "We have very big majorities in the House and the Senate. My experience in politics is if you don't use your majorities, you lose your majorities."

Join the Conversation!

98 comments

Recommend Recommend (2)

September 6, 2009 1:17 PM   

Lamar Alexander obviously doesn't believe in majority-rule democracy. He should let his constituents know that.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 7, 2009 8:58 AM    in reply to converse

Well, along with too many of his cohorts, Alexander evidently only counts lobbying dollars as votes.

The majority of Americans not only want various of the insurance reforms proposed, they want a true public option.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 1:23 PM   

Re: continued WH wobbling on the public option; WH caving in to Glenn Beck's Rabid Right to discard Van Jones

At this rate, the ever-accommodating Chicago "pragmatists" in the White House will end up making Jimmy Carter's inept "Georgia Mafia" seem bold and energetic by comparison.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 1:44 PM    in reply to FMArouet21

I don't know anything about Van Jones. As to health care, I want say "Oh, Pshaw!," but I sure can't.

Either the President is going to get up off the mat and fight (and lead) or he is not.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 2:22 PM    in reply to Overreach THIS!

Will he? Or won't he?

Obama and his advisers were certainly resilient during the 2007 and 2008 campaign seasons. But campaigning, especially against a failed and increasingly unpopular GOP administration was one thing. Exercising national leadership--especially when one side of the debate is willfully ignorant and medieval--is another thing entirely.

Sometimes leadership means that you have to flat-out mock, crush and humiliate the opposition in order to get something done--especially when the opposition is as obstructionist as today's wingnut-dominated GOP.

It seems to me that the "Chicago pragmatists" have about three more months to correct course and start showing some energy, mettle, spine, and real results. If they continue to wallow, waffle, and wobble as they are doing now, Obama and his team will set the Democratic Party up for substantial losses in 2010 and for a demoralizing loss to the medieval, theocratic Right nationally in 2012.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 5:24 PM    in reply to FMArouet21

Congressional Democrats who continue their foot-dragging and who are up for re-election will go down to defeat in 2010. Dean is right on this one--majorities matter. This failure of Democrats in Congress won't be laid at Obama's feet--it will be laid exactly where it belongs.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 1:48 PM   

Wow. Glenn Beck took down an appointee. How embarrassing.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 2:34 PM    in reply to Indie Pro

The guy signed a truther petition, that's indefensible and more importantly not worth it.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 9:38 PM    in reply to Micheline

this sums it up for me:


There's a lesson to be learned. "If you want to say batsh*t-crazy stuff and still be treated as a respectable participant in the national debate, you'd better be a Republican," gauged blogger Mark Kleiman after hearing the news of Jones' resignation. "Suggesting that President Bush invited the 9/11 attacks in order to start a war is really no crazier than suggesting that President Obama wants to let terrorists loose in the United States, or that he plans to kill old people and disabled children, or that there's something sinister about his encouraging schoolkids to study hard."

Those latter three charges, of course, have been leveled recently by elected Republican members of Congress.

from huffpo

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 1:58 PM   

Dean's only half-right. Obviously it depends on what you use them for. The Republicans certainly used their majorities to ram bill after bill down the throats of the Democrats, but looked what happened to them. THey lost control of Congress only after a decade. The pubic doesn't like it if they feel one party is "over-reaching." Legitimate or not, reconciliation will be framed that way in the media and there's not much anyone can do about it.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 2:39 PM    in reply to felix

I don't care how those gutter culture grunts frame anything. If we don't get the public option, which is already a compromise from true Universal Health Care, then I don't give a shit this administration does for the remainder of the 3 years in office. I'll spend my time looking for a primary challenger or just find a way to move to a country that actually cares for its citizens.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 2:45 PM    in reply to rbeats

Yes cause it would be completely Obama's fault if the public option doesn't get through, /rolleyes

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 2:57 PM    in reply to musgrove

Yes it would be Obama's fault. Obama and the rest of the Dems who were elected since 2006 got into office with a strong mandate. That mandate includes a real change in health care. The public option is the least they can do, its not even true universal health care. Obama already signed off a crap deal with big pharma.

Obama needs to let people know he will not campaign for them in 2010, he should pressure the DSCC and the DCCC to not give any money to any member of Congress in the next election that does not vote for a public option. And in fact Obama should actually endorse primary challengers against Democratic senators and congressmen/woman who vote against a public option.

Thats leadership, thats change I voted for, right now with him and Rahm Emanual we have a big pile of fucking spineless goo maintaining the status quo for the in-the-beltway elite!

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 3:51 PM    in reply to rbeats

Not exactly. Who is he threatening to not campaign for? Nelson? Landrieu? Pryor? Lincoln? Let me put it simply. THEY DON'T WANT HIM TO CAMPAIGN FOR THEM.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

AJM

user-pic

September 6, 2009 10:09 PM    in reply to calchala

If you think they could win after he campaigned for a primary opponent against them, let me know. He may not be able to help them much but he could surely take them down.

And if they are going to vote like Republicans he needs to put some fear into them.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 5:31 PM    in reply to rbeats

This is a very simplistic assessment. We can point out all sorts of nefarious and secret things our government is doing except when it comes to the horse-dealing and negotiations needed to craft legislation. There's no valid reason for these sorts of things to hit the public scene right now--unless you are on the GOP side or perhaps a news media type who needs the ratings that high conflict drama brings.

There's plenty of time for public reprimands of the type you are suggesting.

Got anything else or are you out of ideas?

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

AJM

user-pic

September 6, 2009 10:11 PM    in reply to cube3u

You mean close the barn door after the horse is out of the barn?

Obama has tried nice and that has worked just how well?

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 11:46 PM    in reply to AJM

Just because you want to fight with your bare fists doesn't make it the wisest action. The crazies have certainly been on public display--do ya think the sane folks have noticed? See, I happen to believe they have noticed who is having a rational discussion--and who isn't.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

AJM

user-pic

September 7, 2009 10:56 AM    in reply to cube3u

Suggesting Obama issue a public warning of political consequences before the vote is taken is not the same thing as a desire to fight with my fist.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 2:59 PM    in reply to musgrove

If he fights for the public option, and it loses, the will be someone else's fault. If the doesn't fight for the public option, and it loses, it will be his fault.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 5:38 PM    in reply to Dan K

If you don't think he is fighting for the public option then your not paying attention.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

AJM

user-pic

September 6, 2009 10:13 PM    in reply to musgrove

Fighting how for the public option? What he keeps saying is that public option is nice but he could live without it. That's fighting for it?

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

Tim

user-pic

September 6, 2009 10:40 PM    in reply to musgrove

At this point I don't even know where he stands. No one knows where Obama stands. Even his press secretary Gibbs doesn't even know where he stands: he said that after Obama's speech this week, everyone will know where he stands, which means right now no one knows where he stands.

Here's the thing, allowing political vacuums to emerge and then showing up at the 11th hour, after making concession after concession and appeasing your political opponents, may be a successful strategy (then again it didn't work for Neville Chamberlain), but it is categorically not leadership.

A leader has to bear the standard, in the middle of the battlefield, all the way through the battle.

At this point Obama has to deliver public option, because his means have been so disgusting that he better provide positive ends.

But in truth, I find his leadership 'style' for lack of a better word, frankly, disgusting.

You think people didn't know where the likes of Roosevelt and Churchill stood? And Jebus H. Christos, even Bush showed up when a battle was to be fought.

The appearance to me is that he's nothing but a fifth columnist acting on behalf of the rich within the Democratic camp. Which means he intends to fight and deliver nothing of substance to the 90% of this country that isn't very wealthy.


Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 11:49 PM    in reply to Tim

You don't know much about FDR apparently. He drove other Democrats NUTS because he changed his mind so much. Obama is not even close.

Are you like the right-wingers where every damned detail has to be spelled out for you? How rigid and inflexible......

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 7, 2009 8:11 AM    in reply to cube3u

Exactly! These people here are clueless about past presidents and how they won major legislative battles!

They think FDR went full speed ahead on day 1 and never waffled. Total complete bullshit. FDR could be indecisive and wishy-washy. Drove his advisers crazy.

JFK campaigned on Civil Rights but he didn't even introduce a bill until April/May 1963--more than two years after he was sworn in. And then his own party ignored it.

People were furious with Lincoln for not acting sooner on the slavery issue. It took him almost two years to issue the emancipation proclamation.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 2:58 PM    in reply to rbeats

Right, because if we get coverage for most of the uninsured plus substantial reform of invidious practices by the insurance companies, after 40 years of no health care reform at all, that will be a total failure. Without this public option we might as well go back to treating people with leaches.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

AJM

user-pic

September 6, 2009 10:14 PM    in reply to OhioGuy

Um, leaches -- I agree that's a pretty good name for insurance company dominance.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 7, 2009 12:19 AM    in reply to AJM

Actually, "leeches" would be a much more appropriate word.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

AJM

user-pic

September 7, 2009 11:18 AM    in reply to midnight rambler

Agreed. I followed the above and my spell checker didn't flag it so I assumed it was a variant spelling. My bad.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 3:05 PM    in reply to rbeats

Shorter: "I can't have exactly what I want the second I want it! Democracy sucks! Waaaaahh!"

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 3:19 PM    in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve

I was patient for 8 years while every single crap bill was rubber stamped through Congress and all I want now is a real meaningful change in health care. The current health care industry in the United States murders and bankrupts more American citizens than Al Queda could ever dream of pulling off, while making a huge profit!

The question to you then is why do you hate your fellow citizens so much? Does contributing to the death of thousand of children a year make you proud to be an American?

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 5:33 PM    in reply to rbeats

Over-react much?

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

AJM

user-pic

September 6, 2009 10:18 PM    in reply to cube3u

No, rbeats is under-reacting. When United States citizens spend more for health care and don't live as long it is high time that people get outraged.

Oh, outrage is so unbecoming to a lady and it never works. Been to a town hall lately?

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 11:53 PM    in reply to AJM

Yep, I surely have. McCaskill can handle the disrupters in a calm and reasonable way. Have you been?

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

AJM

user-pic

September 7, 2009 10:53 AM    in reply to cube3u

Yep, I have been. My point isn't about how the various congress people handle this so much as that the expression of felt outrage from the dupes of the right is politically effective. Outrage on the basis of wrongs can also be effective. Squeaky wheels often get the grease in politics.

As for McCaskil. You mean like this: After holding 10 town hall meetings across the state in August, McCaskill said she knows Missourians will not tolerate a single-payer health care system totally run by the government?

So what, exactly, do she and her constituents think about Medicare?

It's okay with her if her constituents confuse being the insurer and running the health care system?

Here is a real Democrat on the same problem: In his comments, Rep. Dingell pledged his strong support of public option in the health care legislation that is under consideration in Congress. At this public meeting, he equated mandated health care coverage without a public option to a giant handout out to the health insurance industry.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 4:35 PM    in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve

Democracy sucks! Waaaaahh!

When a public policy consistently polls with supermajority public support ranging from 55% (Research2000/DKos, Aug-Sep 2009) to 77% (SurveyUSA Aug 2009, wording identical to NBC/WSJ Jun 2009, after NBC/WSJ curiously dropped that question from their own polls), yet gets derailed by extremely wealthy and powerful corporate interests representing a sliver of the actual population, together with a right wing noise machine assembled over 40 years by a larger set of wealthy and powerful corporate interests, spreading transparent disinformation without effective rebuttal, I'm not sure the operative word is "democracy". But you can just go right on drinking that Kool-Aid. And be sure to keep thinking of more excuses, because you're gonna need them.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 5:37 PM    in reply to gharlane

There is simply no reason to take polling results and ASSUME that you can then run rough-shod over the entire country and squelch all differences of opinion. We're horse-trading and dealing right now. It's called negotiation and that's what we do as a country--not take polls and then make policy decisions.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 6:34 PM    in reply to cube3u

Of course. Silly me. What three quarters of the American public wants is irrelevant. It's just the back room deals and the corporate contributions that matter. That's why we call it "representative democracy."

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 8:22 PM    in reply to gharlane

It seems you've forgotten how the Senate functions--you know, longer terms and the equality of the states. And, gee, did you forget that both chambers have to pass the same piece of legislation?

Now, I'll agree that money matters--but so do votes. That's where that wee bit of democracy matters. Politicians need both--and Obama's success should have scared the pants off of them.

Now folks like you are not the ones politicians are afraid of--they are afraid of party activists like me. I can turn voters out--you just whine. Want to bet who will be listened to?

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

AJM

user-pic

September 6, 2009 10:22 PM    in reply to cube3u

The whiners --- when they stay home out of disgust. Obama is alienating a significant part of his base.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

AJM

user-pic

September 6, 2009 10:32 PM    in reply to cube3u

Also, giving three quarters of the people what they want isn't exactly running over the entire country.

It may be hard to accomplish politically b but at least put up a fight -- I'm willing to be a one term President over this is not exactly being a Give'em Hell Harry.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 11:58 PM    in reply to AJM

Yeah, everyone likes to read about Truman now--not so much when he was Prez......

Have you been fighting for healthcare reform or just whining on a blog?

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

AJM

user-pic

September 7, 2009 10:59 AM    in reply to cube3u

I'm dong both. Whining on a blog as you call it is both attempting to shame Obama into acting like a Democrat and letting other Democrats know that there are others who feel like they do.

Have you ever read the Federalist Papers? I don't aspire to those heights but arguing about ideas and tactics is the sausage making of politics.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

Tim

user-pic

September 6, 2009 11:23 PM    in reply to cube3u

Obama scares the pants off nobody. Not even Michelle (snark).

Obama's election scares me. It proves that Wall Street can pluck an under experienced person with an inclanation to compromise and have him nominated for the Democratic party.

Everyone knew that the Republicans were toast in 2008. So they invested in Obama. Obama's a smart man. But, at some point, we need a street fighter, not the reincarnation of Neville Chamberlain.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 11:56 PM    in reply to Tim

Scares you? Man up.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 6:34 PM    in reply to gharlane

And here's the thing. a) Those people in that superduper majority you instant-gratification folks keep talkin' about aren't in Congress, b) most of them don't care enough about it to vote their congressperson out office if it doesn't happen and, c) their Congressperson and Senators know it.

That's the reality. Stomping your feet and holding your breath until you turn blue and even calling people names when they dare tell you that that's the political reality isn't going to change that.

Know what will change it? All those people in your superduper majority calling their congressperson and saying, "vote for the public option or else!" Nothing else. So far, that ain't happening.

We failed to get this done back when the Democrats had the glow of approval that comes with having won World War II, the New Deal was the prevailing paradigm, government really did run damn near everything in sight and most people didn't have a problem with it. Didn't get it done under the Great Society when government wasn't yet considered the enemy and paying taxes was considered a patriotic duty. Didn't get it done despite 47 years of relentless work by Teddy Kennedy.

And despite all that, now, in the post Reagan world, when big pharma and big insurance are ten times richer and more powerful than they ever were before, you think its supposed to be easy and we're supposed to get everything we want in one shot now because we won a couple of fucking elections?

Grow the hell up.

If they amputate the public option entirely, the remaining bill will represent more change than Roosevelt, Truman, Johnson, or Teddy Kennedy ever managed to accomplish in the last sixty years. And last time I checked, no one had amended the constitution to keep up from introducing public option legislation again just because it didn't make the cut this time.

We've been at this 60 years and, except for Medicare and S-Chip, we've got dick to show for it. If we get 90% of the job--the universal coverage, no pre-existing conditions terminations or refusals to cover part done, and it takes people four or six to get the rest, that's progress.

That much is guarenteed to happen. The right can't stop it. Only the left can.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

DFH

user-pic

September 6, 2009 7:52 PM    in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve

"If they amputate the public option entirely, the remaining bill will represent more change than Roosevelt, Truman, Johnson, or Teddy Kennedy ever managed to accomplish in the last sixty years."

You're kidding, right? Do you have any idea of what kind of turd they're cooking up in Senate Finance?
For starters, all the "change" you mention will be filled with loopholes and goodies for AHIP. How about 35% co-payments? A captive market (individual mandate)? The insurance lobbyists are WRITING this POS bill you're singing the praises of... not to mention PhRMA, who apparently get their non-negotiated drug prices set in stone for the foreseeable future.
Without a robust public option available on day one, costs will continue to skyrocket and the middle class will go broke even faster, because we'll all be FORCED to buy crap insurance from the predatory for-profit industry. And even now, the "blue dogs" are busy gutting subsidies for people above the poverty line.
The House Progressive caucus needs to stick to its guns and scuttle this whole dog-and-pony show unless there is a strong public option. period.

"Grow the hell up"? Wake the hell up!

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 8:27 PM    in reply to DFH

Not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, are you? There are people who are being denied health insurance because of pre-existing conditions....these folks would be helped immensely by the proposed reforms. The list can go on from there.

The Senate Finance Committee is not the be-all and end-all of this legislation. Is there some reason you don't understand this? Read up and get a bit brighter....right now you remind me of Palin.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

AJM

user-pic

September 6, 2009 10:28 PM    in reply to cube3u

Obama has been floating trial balloons to scuttle putlic option for months now. He and Pharma have some kind of a deal. Mandate turns out to be captive clients for the insurance companies. Sure getting pre-existing conditions covered would be great but not at that price.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 7, 2009 12:00 AM    in reply to AJM

If you had the pre-existing conditon, would you feel the same way? Or if it was your kid? That's what some of you don't grasp; this is serious stuff. These reforms are important to a lot of folks in this country....it's not always about scoring points on a blog.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

AJM

user-pic

September 7, 2009 11:13 AM    in reply to cube3u

We Democrats are being bluffed. There is enough support for health care reform that if the Republicans are shown to scuttle it we should be able to come back and do it right -- have both things -- coverage for pre-existing conditions and the public option. Yes, this would impose a severe sacrifice on a significant number of people but it would be for the long run good of the nation. Liberals need to learn when to be hard-headed as well as to be good-hearted.

The Republicans are blowing smoke as to Obama failing if the health care reform is blocked. If he is out there fighting for it and the Republicans block it he has a perfect case to go to the country with -- these are the individuals who blocked it -- Republican and some Democrats -- and here is who I need you to elect. But he needs to begin building his case now.

Politics is different than community organizing. In community organizing you are often dealing with the powers that be and have no opportunity of changing them so you have to change their minds. In politics it is often easier to change politicians than change the mind of incumbents.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 9:45 PM    in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve

If Healthcare reform is a mandate that everyone must buy insurance


and there is no public option or stronger subsidies


then this healthcare reform is one big giveaway to the insurance industry!


While you increment your grand vision, middle class Americans will be forced to buy insurance (increasing in cost) they can't afford. That is not reform, that is a big screw you to the working people of the US.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 7:03 PM    in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve

That's right Steve! We just learned about this universal healthcare stuff this second! Those boats from the old country took 60 years to make it across with the news that universal healthcare had been discovered abroad. The Canadians must have some new digital gizmos or something because I hear they learned of it sooner.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 3:52 PM    in reply to rbeats

I really don't want to see universal care with regulation on insurance companies lost to a battle over the public option. Once universal health care is in place the public option can be fought over by itself. It's much smaller as an issue and not as easy to defeat by itself. Once true universal care is in place the real issue shifts to paying for it and controlling health care costs. We are very close to that right now. Is it reasonable to think that the public option could be traded off (for now) to get the rest?

The key is to get universal health coverage and community health pools. Add to that provisions that do not permit insurance companies to reject any applicant, or to increase the premiums for health condition or anything else. Add some effective form of regulation and monitoring that keeps close track of these things.

Once those things are in place they will begin to eliminate a lot of hospital cost-shifting that currently is needed because they provide care to the uninsured. Medically caused bankruptcies should also drop greatly.

A universal standard process for getting reimbursed would lower administrative costs to an amazing degree, both for health care providers and for the insurance companies, and it would aid in monitoring the effectiveness of the system. It would highlight the problems.

I'd also like to see a unified standard procedure and system for appealing denial of coverage. As it is, the insurance companies decide not to cover a procedure, then deal with the appeal themselves. The system for the appeal is different for every company and no one really knows what the decision is based on. That appeal process should be taken away from the insurance companies and standardized. It would fit in with the medical effectiveness studies.

Most of the advantages of size that allows one plan to currently dominate a region would also disappear, especially with a single standard system for getting reimbursed. So competitors could more easily take on the big regional monopolist health care companies.

The Medical effectiveness studies would put pressures on the pharmaceutical companies to sell medications that were more useful, not just me-too drugs that were patented and high priced. The practice recommendations would also quickly become a legal defense for physicians in malpractice claims. How does a lawyer justify a malpractice claim when the medical effectiveness studies suggest the treatment used? And if the physician deviated from the recommended treatment, careful documentation of the reasons for the deviation along with consultation would be a similar defense. Frankly more consultation would improve our health care a lot. Lawyers wouldn't take those cases on contingency, since they would be quite expensive and not likely to pay back anything. Right there the biggest cause of truly frivolous malpractice claims would be eliminated.

I'd like to see the government option as it would lower costs even more and more quickly. But with the above items included in a health care plan we could quickly get to a level of care similar to what the Swiss have.

After getting universal coverage we can focus on lowering cost. Politically that is less important than universal coverage, and probably easier to deal with.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 4:44 PM    in reply to Richardxx

Once universal health care is in place the public option can be fought over by itself.

I don't think so. The public option can't get through a US Congress if it is the only thing on the table, because it will pit the bottom 20% or so against everyone else. It has to be part of a comprehensive package.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 6:43 PM    in reply to Dan K

Once people see actually see the insurance companies growing fat on the taxpayer's teat, that dynamic could change.

And frankly, there are plenty of "must-pass" bills it could be tacked onto in a future Congress that are a hell of a lot less controversial and easier to pass than the remaining 90% of the healthcare reform bill.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 7:50 PM    in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve

Seriously, Steve, this plan sounds insane.
1. throw a massive amount of money at industry X
2. Industry X makes obscene profits
3. Industry X gains obscene political clout
4. People realize Industry X is obscenely rich and powerful
5. ....?
6. Congress passes legislation reducing X's profits and clout.

That has worked so well with big agro, big finance, big defence, etc. How could this possibly go wrong?

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 4:51 PM    in reply to Richardxx

I love these ideals and i think obama saw this coming and now he's ready to put things like this in place...first let everyone rip and rant then come in for the kill...that why the public option is being second guessed it has never been the whole plan just the plan out in the open...have you post this to the health care form web site i could do it for you?

Very very good!

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 9:56 PM    in reply to Richardxx

After getting universal coverage we can focus on lowering cost. Politically that is less important than universal coverage, and probably easier to deal with.

the problem with your grand plan are the average people here in our country.

To get "universal coverage" you plan to force people to buy insurance.

There is a post here on TPM to a study that shows how the subsidies are insufficient for many families, and those subsidies are being lowered all ready in committee.

To get "universal coverage" you are forcing people to pay the insurance industry, and you're giving away tax money. You're forcing people to pay money they may not have. The economy sucks, you know. And you want average Americans to fork out another $250 a month, cause you know, we all got that laying around.

later on, you'll worry about a public option (the competition Obama says is needed to lower premium rates and keep the insurance companies honest.

So let people living pay check to paycheck figure out how to pay for your reform.

later on down the road, you'll fix that public option thing. It ain't needed. It's a trifle, if you live in an ivory tower, or are oblivious to how many people live (who don't have insurance because they can't afford it! Your plan, Afford it anyway!!).


Yeah, that'll be great, politically!!

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 11:45 PM    in reply to Richardxx

Richard

I'm assuming you don't read your news. Universal care has never been on the table. The best estimate presently is that there will still be about 20 million uninsured citizens in the US with the compromises you are suggesting.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 3:41 PM    in reply to felix

Hmmmnn... Over-reaching you say? That's the concern?

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

AJM

user-pic

September 6, 2009 10:06 PM    in reply to felix

Usually the public doesn't object tp having its own wishes rammed down the throat of Congress. Despite repeated obfuscation polling shows that the public wants the public option -- particularly those who know what it is.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 11:25 PM    in reply to felix

If we wait until the media supports health care reform it will never happen. You do it however it has to be done and then do your best to sell it to the public.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 7, 2009 4:18 AM    in reply to felix

I disagree that the public dislikes a party "overreaching". The public dislikes the party in control disasterously failing to govern as the GOP has done. This idea that people want bi-patisanship is just the crap the right-wing spouts when they aren't in power. What voters want is government that delivers services and right now they have put Democrats in power to do that. If the Democrats deliver the voters will be thrilled and they won't care if the pundits call it overreaching or a power grab or whatever.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 7, 2009 9:07 AM    in reply to fpie

Republicans believe that government is the problem and spend their majority years doing their best to prove it. Then they spend their minority years doing their best to prevent Democrats from proving them wrong.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 3:04 PM   

Maybe Congress should just pass a bill subsidizing coupons for band-aid purchases. Then Obama can call it, "sensible, incremental change that all Americans can believe in."

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 7, 2009 12:22 AM    in reply to Dan K

No coupons, that would be a government giveaway to spongers. It would have to be a tax credit.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 3:10 PM   

I suppose it's only fair, considering all the concessions the Bush WH made to the Democratic minority. :-)

Now I'm wondering what concessions the Obama WH will be making with the upcoming Climate bill, reproductive rights legislation, tax code legislation, cap & trade, tort reform and a whole host of other important, vital matters that will come before them. Many of us were hoping for bold, fresh leadership.

This ain't it.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 5:41 PM    in reply to theWalrus

Hmmm, an administration that never comprimises, never concedes on anything? Yeah, I don't care who is in charge, that type of governing is very dangerous.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 7, 2009 2:27 AM    in reply to VivaAmerica!

But one that does so on everything is ineffective and cowardly.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 7, 2009 9:25 AM    in reply to kgb999

What's ineffective is sticking to your guns just so you don't look weak. Stop looking for a cowboy administration.

And let me say that NOTHING Obama does will ever, ever be enough for the LEFT. Everything he does, even if it's 100 miles farther than the LEFT has ever gotten on their own, will NEVER be enough. Did I just say that twice? yes, because it needs to be said over and over and over. Everything he does will never fit the Left agenda 100% so everything he does will look like capitulation.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 3:28 PM   

Put health care in and of itself aside for a moment. There is a much bigger issue here.

For decades, the Dems have been portrayed as weak, indecisive and impotent, as people who won't stand up for itself or its principles, and certainly not for America. And once again, the Dems are fueling those portrayals. Obama didn't make it clear where he stood and what he wanted to accomplish. This allowed the B.S. from the right to stick. The middle didn't know where Obama stood and the rantings of Beck, Palin, etc. filled that void. Similarly, the right needed a reason to get energized after two demoralizing electoral cycles and they got it.

What Obama needed to do from the beginning is come out and clearly articulate his health care reform plan - how he would achieve it, why it was necessary, how it would benefit everyone (patients, doctors, etc.) and how it would be paid for. He needed to do this from the very beginning and do so in a powerful way that would leave no room for opponents to swoop in and dictate the narrative.

Maybe Obama's speech to Congress this week will accomplish that. But I'll have to see it to believe it. And even if it does, he's fighting an uphill battle, because his opponent has already defined him. He needed to give this speech in the spring when he began the healthcare reform push, not in September when he's already lost the upper hand.

Whatever Obama wanted as his means to healthcare reform - a public option, a public option with a trigger, allowing people to buy insurance across state lines, etc. - he needed to make it clear from the beginning.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 3:40 PM    in reply to jdb316

I second that! Obviously we are second guessing the President, but none of us is a political tactician, nor a national "leader", nor someone who just finished a long campaign telling people how change was coming. One would think that a person with those qualities would have known just about exactly what they wanted, would have let Congress, and more importantly, the people know what that is, and would have come out early and strongly for that. Unfortunately, Obama appears to have been far more interested in playing goody two shoes with the Repubs to even try to do what he needed to do.

If and when he succeeds with getting a good health care reform bill I will be at the head of the line congratulating him and thanking him. But, not before.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 4:25 PM    in reply to jdb316

That's giving image priority to the substance of governance.

That's exactly what the Bush administration did, and they failed to govern. That's the lesson of Katrina.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 4:57 PM    in reply to Richardxx

Progressive governance is more than policy wonkery and public administration. It requires the construction of a confident coalition for progressive change around determined and trusted leadership. It require solidarity. It requires periodic displays of organized political power that are sufficient to impress and intimidate its powerful opponents. It requires risk-taking, and demonstration of the ability to win very difficult battles, but also the willingness to exact a toll on the opponents even in the battles that are lost.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 5:52 PM    in reply to Richardxx

Guess what? POLITICS IS A LOT ABOUT IMAGE!!!!

How do you think Bush II got elected the first time? It sure wasn't on substance - Gore kicked his rear in the debates, and was the VP for a President who left office with a 66% approval rating. Forget what happened in Florida - if substance were all that mattered, Gore should have won in a landslide. But Gore didn't close the deal because people didn't think he was likeable, and weren't galvanized by him the way Republicans and right-leaning independents were galvanized by Bush II.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 6:52 PM    in reply to jdb316

What Obama needed to do from the beginning is come out and clearly articulate his health care reform plan - how he would achieve it, why it was necessary, how it would benefit everyone (patients, doctors, etc.) and how it would be paid for. He needed to do this from the very beginning and do so in a powerful way that would leave no room for opponents to swoop in and dictate the narrative.

Basically, you're just doing a "well, this isn't working as well as I'd like so clearly what he should have done is this exact opposite thing."

Here's the problem with that. All that stuff you say Obama should have done? That's exactly what Bill Clinton did. Didn't work. More than didn't work, it was, in fact, a disaster that led to complete twelve-year year long clusterfuck. If Obama had done the same thing, it wouldn't have worked any better than what he did and, worse, would have fed "history repeating itself, boy how could he be such a bone head doing the same thing Clinton did" narratives.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 7:06 PM    in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve

Instead he figured out how to be a bonehead and create his own disaster. I'm so relieved.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 7:18 PM    in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve

Obama overreacted to Clinton's mistakes. He certainly should have had Congress's input to an extent. But he shouldn't have left all of the details up to Congress, an entity which by design doesn't lend itself to having a clear cut plan and following it.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 3:33 PM   

Say what you want about the Republicans, but when they wanted something, they made it clear and they made sure they got it done. And while they eventually did go too far and got bounced from power as a result, they held control of Congress for 12 years. Which is going to be a lot longer than the Dems will hold Congress at this rate.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 3:42 PM    in reply to jdb316

They thought they had a mandate to get rid of Social Security after 2004 too. Sometimes Separation of Powers doesn't suck, you know?

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 3:44 PM   

yes, the truthers are batshit crazy, and i'd rather not have a truther in a position of authority. anybody who actually thought/thinks that 9-11 was orchestrated by the US gov't is welcome to sit in their basement in their boxers playing world of warcraft, but i don't want them making important decisions for me, since they are clearly nutso.

that said, i ALSO don't like the idea of birthers, deathers, and global warming deniers in positions of authority, given how batshit insane THOSE ideas are.

so when are we going to start seeing all of the congressional birthers, deathers, and deniers resigning?

oh yeah, never. 'cause IOKIYAR. i forgot.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 3:50 PM   

The absolute insult to those who elected this democratic majority and president would be for them to pass a bill mandating the purchase of health insurance without providing a public option 'now' to purchase.

Requiring me to purchase health care from the providers that I despise for what they have done thus far... hundreds of thousands of bankrupt Americans, more deaths than have resulted from wars,and all for 'huge' profits. That would not just be an insult, I would be outraged!

That is the worst case scenario in my book and I believe it would seal the death of the democratic majority.

So far the democratic leadership has demonstrated that they are meek, weak, and perhaps 'owned' somewhere in the background by the same corporations that rule the republicans.

This fight is about much more than health care reform. It is about our political future. I agree with what Howard Dean said. If you cannot wield your majority with strong and clear leadership, you will lose your majority for good cause.

I have told my reps repeatedly, if you are do not fight for a real public option 'now', do not under any circumstances pass a mandate that I buy health insurance. Period.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 4:11 PM    in reply to synchronicity

Obama is my hero, Synch, and he has to prove me wrong yet. Still, he's making me wonder. He seems to have this middle-ground fixation which is absolutely poisonous.

How can you have real change if you are averaging the appalling status quo and seeing what awful mush you come up with? How could it even logically be possible?

Like I say, he *seems* to have this poisonous, weakling, middle-ground, no-leadership, fixation that would just make me vomit. But I know, I just know, he's going to be strong for us and do the right thing. Despite everything.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 5:24 PM    in reply to synchronicity

Is Obama really looking weak in the face of Republican opposition to health care? Consider his situation.

Obama came out of Illinois and defeated Hillary for the nomination in spite of the fact that Hillary had the name recognition, the experience at the national level, and most importantly Bill Clinton and the Democratic machine behind her. Essentially Obama built his own machine and wore Hillary down. (I won't add that Obama did it in spite of his race, because that was his weakness but gender was Hillary's comparable weakness. The two traditional political weaknesses canceled each other and were in many ways advantages for each of them in the primaries.) Then Obama went on to win the Presidency against McCain, but he was the last-man-standing choice for the Republicans. It wasn't a Republican year. Still, the MSM did not want Obama any more than they wanted Gore in 2000. Obama still won decisively. It wasn't given to him. He earned it by doing things right.

Then Obama essentially took over the Presidential Bully Pulpit in November when Bush went on his two month vacation before the inauguration. This at the time when America was headed into the second Great Depression. Upon taking office Obama then got the stimulus bill through and in addition saved the American auto industry almost as an afterthought.

Then Obama immediately took on the challenge that has defeated Democrats for over six decades – universal health care. This is being done on the battle ground based on the Constitution that makes major social changes subject to passage by the Small State Senators. The Senate, together with the MSM and the obstructionist right wing Republicans defeated Clinton when he tried to pass a similar bill.

This time Obama has the Republicans running scared. Think about it. They have had to unleash the right-wing crazies and even support them from the floor of the legislature. The MSM is also working hard to defeat Obama and health care. Frankly, it is a political battle being fought on a battleground tilted against success for Obama. And he is amazingly close.

If Obama looks weak because he can't simply ignore the deck that is stacked against his success and work carefully to find his way through all the minefields, look at how the Republicans look. They have proven just how whacked out insane they and their leaders are. Weak? The Republicans are so desperate that they are trying to recreate the nullification arguments that were defeated in the 1830's. This is a massive and very important battle being fought by a strong and capable Democratic President against a stacked deck and a media biased towards making him look weak.

Granted, every President since JFK has had a learning curve in his first year in office in which something went really bad for him. Health care may be Obama's problem case. But I'm not ready to count him out now. He has surmounted every prior challenge, and while this may be the greatest challenge he has every faced and the odds are against him, I think he'll probably win this battle too.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 5:45 PM    in reply to Richardxx

Good eassessment.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 7, 2009 12:01 AM    in reply to Richardxx

Richard is entitled to his opinion. There are others of us that would believe his entire statement is a misreading of the facts. But I do believe that Richard is an optimist.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 7, 2009 2:04 AM    in reply to Richardxx

Yes, he appears weak as water. For chrissake! Obama is apparently being backed off of a signature campaign promise by a "movement" spearheaded with obviously insane LaRouchites and Beck fans while being bought off by big Pharma and United Health. If that's strong, I sure don't want to see the democratic version of weak!

I don't see how his triangulation and general lack of leadership (while top lieutenants deploy to rather visibly undercut the progressives in the legislative battle) lifts the party for the next election cycle. If we don't get a progressive health bill it will truly be because of Rham Emanuel - and by extension the man who hired him. The loonies they put on the teevees may not get it, but to those in in the bleachers it looks like the hardest blocks are being thrown by your own team. That's dysfunctional. At least Bush and the republicans were able to accomplish what they set out to do - sadly, all of it was total suck-ass-city.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 4:59 PM   

Obama was my hope to bring change. He is proving himself to be to weak willed and politically incompetent to deliver anything amounting to change. He was lucky enough to run for president against a weak ticket on the heels of a disaterous GOP presidency. Now his horrible combination of political naivete and lack of political skill is all too evident.

He has needlessly caved in to a discredited GOP minority on medicare prescription drug coverage and financial industry regulation.

You can get ready for the latest campaign promise betrayel when they follow their milquetoast appearences on the Sunday morning tv circuit with another bootlicking concession to the GOP on a public health care reform option. The GOP can't beleive their luck. This is change I don't believe in.

I was fooled during the 2008 campaign. I won't be again.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 5:49 PM    in reply to tommyo

Riight. Did you really believe that the forces aligned against needed change in this country were so weak? These forces will use everything at their disposal to stop healthcare changes--or did you expect these same forces to bow gracefully and cede ground quickly and easily?

Of course, these forces have also sounded very nutso and crazy with the "keep your hands off MY healthcare" which is the most greedy and selfish statement possible--and in a country known for its generosity.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 7, 2009 12:12 AM    in reply to cube3u

Yeah,, I believe that. But, you know,..... what I didn't believe was that this Wonder Boy we hired as our new ramrod to drove our herd was going on vacation to Sleepy Hollow the minute the action started. Kinda reminds you of W doesn't it. Heading to Crawford everytime there was an emergency.

You just keep singing his praises. I used to know the words to that song! It's Hard Woerkkk!! It's Hard Woerrkk!

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 7, 2009 2:26 AM    in reply to cube3u

Shorter: Oooooh the big bad forces that Obama talked about fighting and winning against together are sooooo strong! You didn't expect our leaders to actually WIN ... with a majority, a majority, a presidency, and the damn thing in reconciliation ... DID you?!

If they can't win decisively under these circumstances, the democratic party is simply incapable of delivering. Period.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 7, 2009 12:04 AM    in reply to tommyo

Spot on. My guess is we are not a party of two.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 6:07 PM   

We are still living with the consequences of the Ralph Nader Jihad against Al Gore.

I want to buy a Corvair, run down Ol' Ralph, & roll over him, repeatedly, 'til he's nothing but a two-dimensional strip of flesh, like you see in the Warner Brothers cartoons.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 8:05 PM    in reply to MAX TARDCORE

And . . . . al gore actually won. The supremes gave the country to a frat boy that wanted to be king and the dems freaking rolled over for 6 of those 8 years. Piss me the F*ck off!!!

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 7, 2009 9:13 AM    in reply to MAX TARDCORE

Some people are still feeling guilty about not supporting Gore strongly enough, I see.

Did you even bother to vote that year?

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 7:09 PM   

Axelrod is a tool. Public Option is the line that tool had better not cross.

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

September 6, 2009 10:25 PM   

Is health care a moral imperative? As I listened to the many televised town meetings and debates on national health care legislation, I found the issue of morality missing. Not once have I heard a preacher, a rabbi or an imam stand to argue that the principles behind health care legislation are a moral imperative. Instead I heard the voices of activists opposing health care reform state their moral concerns regarding government health care payments for abortions and family planning.
To those whose opposition is based on the fear that health care legislation might cover abortions, I say that this is the least of our worries. Instead focus on how healthcare reform care can help reduce our dismal record of infant mortality and perhaps reduce the need for abortions. Most often opponents to reform claim that as a nation we have the world’s best health care system. Perhaps that’s true for those who can afford it, but according to the 2008 report released by the Center for Disease Control, our rate of infant mortality is 6.78 infant deaths per 1,000 live births – over 28,000 infant deaths. Measured against other countries our infant mortality rate is 29th in the world, much higher than Canada and most European countries with universal health care systems are demonized by opponents of health care reform.
Infant mortality is just one area where our health care system falls behind other leading Democracies. For example, life expectancy is often seen as an overall measurement of a nation’s quality of life and health. It represents the period that a child born in 2007 is expected to live, assuming mortality trends stay constant. In U.S. life expectancy has grown nearly one and a half years in the past decade, and is now at an all-time-high, just below 78 years, according to the CDC. Yet even with gains, the U.S continues to lag behind about 30 other countries in estimated life span, according to the World Health Organization. Japan, a nation with Universal Health Care not only has the longest life expectancy - 83 years for children born in 2007 – but also the lowest rate of infant mortality – 2.79 per 1000 birth.
For those who claim that the costs of health care reform will impose a burden on taxpayers and future generations, I suggest you look at the burden it is already costing our local health care system. Week after week in our local newspaper I see literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in judgments filed by our local hospital against individuals for unpaid hospitals bills. Last week’s list of 61 hospital judgments is typical; it totaled $295,376 But this is just a drop from the tip of the medical syringe that I believe is filled with much smaller doses of debts owed to doctors and healthcare institutions for medical services. Neither does it include the bankruptcies caused by piles of medical bills.
The real meaning of health care reform is more than the bickering about its cost to taxpayers or the nit-picking political ideologies of the left and the right. I encourage all readers call of your community religious leader join hands in this effort to secure healthcare reform that will benefit the people who need it the most and to remember our motto when it boils to our nation’s finances: “In God We Trust.”

Reply | Flag Abuse

Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?

Leave a comment

Your response:

Follow us!

PollTracker

More polls »

Most Popular

TPM Stories Now Surging on