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Conrad Clarifies: No Federal Subsidies for Non-Citizens Under Health Care Bill
Brian Beutler | September 11, 2009, 11:31AM
Sen. Kent Conrad (D-ND)
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Sen. Kent Conrad (D-ND) told reporters today that while non-citizens won't be barred, under Senate Finance Committee legislation from entering health insurance exchanges, the exchanges themselves will require all consumers to show proof of citizenship, in order to insure that undocumented residents don't receive any federal subsidies.
"You can't prevent someone from being able to purchase insurance," Conrad said. "They would not get any government assistance.... What we're trying to prevent is anybody who is here illegally from getting any federal benefit."
Other legislation, and previous versions of the Baucus proposal, required government officials to erect regulations to prevent non-citizens from receiving federal subsidies. Conservatives latched on to that lack of definition by charging that people in the country illegally would benefit from Democratic health care reform.
Though the new change makes explicit what the earlier drafts left implicit--and while the move may provide some political cover to Republicans, who are still recovering from the controversy over Rep. Joe Wilson's outburst during President Obama's speech--it's sure to raise the ire of liberals, and immigrant groups, and spark concerns that new reforms will be used to target undocumented immigrants.
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FreeRider
September 11, 2009 12:06 PM
I thought this was about illegal immigrants. Now, they're barring legal residents, many of whom have worked and paid taxes here for 20+ years, from benefitting from this plan?
That's fucked!!
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VivaAmerica!
September 11, 2009 12:14 PM in reply to FreeRider
This is still about illegal immigrants. It makes no sense politically to create such a controversial provision in an already controversial bill. Legal residents will not be barred.
"You can't prevent someone from being able to purchase insurance," Conrad said. "They would not get any government assistance.... What we're trying to prevent is anybody who is here illegally from getting any federal benefit."
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FreeRider
September 11, 2009 12:17 PM in reply to VivaAmerica!
Conrad and Baucus are using the words 'NON CITIZENS' that's not the same thing as "illegal immigrants." Maybe they are misspeaking but they're saying some fucked up shit right now!
Legal residents who work and pay taxes should be able to qualify for the subsidies. They need to make that clear!
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Indie Pro
September 11, 2009 12:30 PM in reply to FreeRider
Nice catch in the language.
If legal residents who work and pay taxes are caught in the mandates, they should qualify for subsidies. Absolutely.
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VivaAmerica!
September 11, 2009 12:40 PM in reply to Indie Pro
There is no catch in the language. As a resident alien myself and having filled out many forms, I do not see non-citizens as applying to people with my status as there is always a section to write in my green card number.
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Indie Pro
September 11, 2009 12:46 PM in reply to VivaAmerica!
I hope you are correct. I've tried to find clarifying language, but so far I havn't been able to find anything. If you have a link that clarfies the language, I'd appreciate it.
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VivaAmerica!
September 11, 2009 12:49 PM in reply to Indie Pro
Sorry, I just have my own personal experience. I'm not worried.
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FreeRider
September 11, 2009 12:47 PM in reply to VivaAmerica!
Unless you are a citizen, you are a non-citzen. Seems like you don't want to believe they're talking about you but unless the language says "show proof of citizenship or legal residence" they're talking about you.
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VivaAmerica!
September 11, 2009 12:59 PM in reply to FreeRider
Seems like you don't want to admit you blew up over nothing. Conrad in the summary above clarified and said ILLEGAL.
I mean seriously, I know the Left doesn't trust him, but it is beyond foolish to think that I, a resident alien, who gets a statement now and then about what my Social Security payments will be when I retire, will be barred from this benefit. Why in the world would any politician put such a controversial provision in an already controversial bill?
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FreeRider
September 11, 2009 1:05 PM in reply to VivaAmerica!
Here are Conrad's OWN words. When asked if LEGAL RESIDENTS will be recovered he said “That is something that is still left unresolved. We have agreed that anybody who is here legally will be subject to requirements of the legislation."
So while you're so fucking sure that you will be covered, Conrad is NOT SURE. He has said that's UNRESOLVED. He knows he will force you to buy insurance, but hasn't decided if you will be able to get the subsidy.
Watch the video then get back to me!
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ogliberal
September 11, 2009 1:15 PM in reply to FreeRider
FreeRide is correct. Again, one should be able to assume that people like VivaAme, if they are required to purchase insurance - as Conrad explicitly states - would also be eligible for subsidies. But for some reason, that's unresolved. Actually, it's unresolved because Grassley and Enzi want it unresolved and because Conrad is afraid that he might be called a wetback lover if he provides federal healthcare subsidies to legal, non-citizen residents who pay federal taxes
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
September 11, 2009 12:11 PM
That's actually perfectly reasonable. Which, of course, means that the loons will be screaming their heads off about the fact that illegals will be allowed to purchase even unsubsidized health insurance in the next 24 hours.
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FreeRider
September 11, 2009 12:13 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
This is NOT reasonable. Legal residents with green cards work and pay taxes but Conrad is going to exclude them, too? That's bullshit!
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VivaAmerica!
September 11, 2009 12:16 PM in reply to FreeRider
OMG! What's happend to you? where do you see that in Conrad's quote? It says illegal residents. Resident aliens are not illegal.
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FreeRider
September 11, 2009 12:21 PM in reply to VivaAmerica!
"The incident reportedly has led Finance chairman Max Baucus to insert a provision in his legislation to require participants in the health insurance exchanges to provide proof of citizenship."
You can't provide "proof of citizenship" if you're not a citizen!! That means that "non-citizens" which includes legal residents who work here and pay taxes here will also be excluded.
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VivaAmerica!
September 11, 2009 12:28 PM in reply to FreeRider
So you are basing your comment on Josh's quote not Conrad's.
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FreeRider
September 11, 2009 12:32 PM in reply to VivaAmerica!
That's not Josh's quote! That's not anybody's quote! They are putting in a provision that requires showing "proof of citizenship". What do you think that means or are you saying I don't believe the story?
If that's your take, then fine but don't pretend the story doesn't clearly state what it states. Proof of CITIZENSHIP is required!
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VivaAmerica!
September 11, 2009 12:43 PM in reply to FreeRider
That's not anybdoy's quote. Exactly. Yet, you are reacting like this?
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VivaAmerica!
September 11, 2009 12:46 PM in reply to FreeRider
I'm also saying that you don't believe the story once it was clarified and didn't justify the initial outrage from the initial reporting. No quotes, no exact wording from the bill yet you are flying off the handle and cursing in your posts.
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Indie Pro
September 11, 2009 12:49 PM in reply to VivaAmerica!
No quotes, no exact wording from the bill yet you are defending it
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FreeRider
September 11, 2009 12:53 PM in reply to Indie Pro
For once, I agree with you. Viva is invested in believing that the words don't really mean what they mean.
"I'm not a citizen but they're not talking about me when they say 'non-citizen'. They're talking about those other 'non-citizens'".
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VivaAmerica!
September 11, 2009 1:00 PM in reply to Indie Pro
??????????????? It's okay to go nuts over what isn't there, but not okay to display some common sense?
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FreeRider
September 11, 2009 1:09 PM in reply to VivaAmerica!
Here's what IS there: when asked whether legal residents will be included, Conrad says "that is something that is still something left unresolved. We have agreed that anybody who is here legally will be subject to requirements of the legislation."
What's clear is that legal residents will have purchase insurance but they're still trying decide whether you will be allowed to have subsidies.
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FreeRider
September 11, 2009 12:51 PM in reply to VivaAmerica!
Perhaps you haven't noticed but flying off the handle and cursing is nothing new for me.
Look. Other people are freaking out about what Fox news will say. I don't give a shit about that. I care about how this will impact peoples' lives. If they are saying only CITIZENS will be included in the subsidies, that's fucked!
If they've misspoken, and legal residents are included. Great!
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VivaAmerica!
September 11, 2009 1:07 PM in reply to FreeRider
Your posts have just shown me how the Right comes to their conclusions. Thank you for making me understand Joe Wilson a little more.
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FreeRider
September 11, 2009 1:12 PM in reply to VivaAmerica!
Your post makes me understand how people assume too much. You assume you will be included in the subsidies when Conrad says that you might not be.
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geofu54
September 11, 2009 12:31 PM in reply to FreeRider
But as far as that particular video goes, it sounds like those legally here (including non-citizens) are included. Conrad mentioned asylees, for example, who could prove their lawful presence here by immigration documentation (e.g., visas).
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ogliberal
September 11, 2009 12:33 PM in reply to FreeRider
Don't the folks that you described have plenty of documentation to show that they are here legally - eg, Conrad mentioned visas. Don't those who are working and paying taxes have a TIN? If you watch the clip, it's clear that Conrad is specifically talking about excluding illegal aliens from receiving subsidies. He even states that you can't prevent them from buying unsubsidized insurance. (which would be stupid - we want them to be insured)
That said, again, the fact that Conrad says that they made progress on this "yesterday" makes it looks as if they scramble the react to the crazy "LIE!" guy. The optics are terrible. Most people came away from that exchange thinking that Joe Wilson was an idiot. Now, they may ask, "Well, I thought he was an idiot and a liar, but if he is, why is Conrad scrambling to find a solution?" Of course, Conrad is scrambling to find a solution to a non-existent problem. The fact that all of the proposed legislation that I've seen contains language saying that illegal aliens can't get subsidies should be enough, right?
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geofu54
September 11, 2009 12:39 PM in reply to ogliberal
Yeah, I don't like that "YESTERDAY" either. That's dumb. It in itself shouldn't be anything to justify Wilson, but I can see wingnuts jumping on it and using it to their advantage.
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
September 11, 2009 12:47 PM in reply to FreeRider
The key word would be "reportedly," meaning a paraphrase of what someone else said they think he's doing--a paraphrase of a paraphrase. So, granting that there's an ambiguity in the reporting that lends itself equally well to either of our interpretations--yours based on the reporting of the reporting and mine based on the edited reporting of an actual quote--I have a crazy idea. How about we find out what the actual proposed legislative language says before we freak out about it? If it turns out your right, I'll join you. In the mean time, I'll admit I was premature in expressing approval without actually reading the proposed language.
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FreeRider
September 11, 2009 12:55 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
Deal. If it was anybody besides Baucus and Conrad, I wouldn't be so quick to think the worse. But those guys SUCK!!!!!!!
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VictorLH
September 11, 2009 12:22 PM
Yea, make it appear Wilson was justified calling the President a liar on National/International TV by making a change. These two are idiots.
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ogliberal
September 11, 2009 12:24 PM
If I read Conrad's comments correctly, non-citizens and even illegal aliens can purchase health insurance...they just can't get federal subsidies to purchase that insurance. I see no problem with that. HOWEVER...how many illegal aliens, some of whom may already have health insurance, are going to buy insurance from the exchange knowing that they have to prove their citizenship when they apply. The best solution, I think, would be to have an application form for federal subsidies, separate from the overall policy app. You could decline subsidies and not fill out the form, and state on the full app that you have declined these subsidies. This will prevent illegals from getting subsidies but also not scare them away from purchasing health insurance if they so choose. The fact that they are here in the first place is not a healthcare issue and should not be addressed in a healthcare reform bill.
That said, the fact that Conrad even came out to clarify this is embarrassing and makes it look like Joe the Screamer was right and that he won the day for good, hard working white Americans. Wasn't this freaking provision already in the draft legislation? If you say, as the Baucus Framework document states, "No illegal immigrants will benefit from the health care tax credits" (there is similar language in HR 3200), isn't it assumed that you'll be checking to see if somebody is a legal resident/citizen before handing out these subsidies. Why not just say, "Yeah, like the president said, there's nothing in the proposals that will provide subsidies to undocumented aliens. It's already taken care of."
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FreeRider
September 11, 2009 12:29 PM in reply to ogliberal
So you see no problem with barring legal residents who pay taxes from getting subsidies that use their tax dollars to buy insurance?
It can take 5-10 YEARS to become a citizen. While they wait, legal residents will pay taxes at the same rate as their neighbors who were born here but will be told "sorry. we're not going to help you purchase insurance."
Maybe I'm missing it but that seems less than fair to me.
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ogliberal
September 11, 2009 12:40 PM in reply to FreeRider
If you are a tax paying, legal resident of this country, you should be able to obtain federal subsidies for health insurance. I didn't see anything from Conrad in the clip saying that these folks wouldn't be eligible...although I also didn't see him say that they would be. But if your primary purpose for checking legal citizenship/residence status is to exclude illegals from getting subsidies (not from purchase insurance), then you should (emphasis on "should") be able to assume that legal, tax paying, non-citizent resident aliens should be eligible for subsidies.
What I have no problem with is excluding illegal aliens from receiving subsidies. I would have a problem if they tried to exclude them from purchasing insurance on the exchange altogether...but Conrad clearly said you can't prevent them from doing that. (although you can scare them away from doing that)
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ogliberal
September 11, 2009 12:46 PM in reply to ogliberal
OK...I watched it again. Conrad said at the end that whether or not legal non-citizens will be able to receive federal subsidies is still "unresolved". He said they are subject to the "requirements" of the legislation. So we don't know yet. But if one of the "requirements" is that you have to buy insurance and as a legal non-citizen resident you are subject to that "requirement", then they better make sure they can receive subsidies, especially if these folks are paying taxes here. (the reporter who asked the question wondered if these folks would be subject to some sort of grace period but Conrad just responded that it's "unresolved")
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FreeRider
September 11, 2009 12:58 PM in reply to ogliberal
Exactly! If taxpaying legal residents will be forced to buy insurance, they should be entitled to the subsidies.
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VivaAmerica!
September 11, 2009 12:32 PM in reply to ogliberal
Wilson didn't win anything. He wants to kill health care reform in total not a provision in the bill.
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AdAbsurdum
September 11, 2009 12:32 PM
The neo-Confederate loons have once again just been given the message that no matter how unfounded their claims, these will be addressed as if they were of any merit.
Also, thanks to Sen. Conrad, who by doing this, has now provided fodder for the slanderous accusation that the president was indeed lying.
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Dorn76
September 11, 2009 1:18 PM in reply to AdAbsurdum
BINGO
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Richard L. Adlof
September 11, 2009 12:36 PM
H.R. 320 Section 264 does this . . . ALREADY.
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ogliberal
September 11, 2009 12:55 PM
On queue, here is The Corner presenting this as a win for Joe Wilson:
'Baucus, Conrad Respond to "You Lie" Flap By Restricting Non-Citizens from Insurance Market'
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDdmNzU3MGI2YTcyYTE5NDJiYzViNzRlOGRiMDgyYjM=
And they link to TPM!
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
September 11, 2009 12:59 PM in reply to ogliberal
These are the same guys who say Sarah Palin is a political superstar, Saddam had WMD's and we need to bomb Iran to show the world how big our dick is. I'm really not stressing about what NR reports.
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ogliberal
September 11, 2009 1:12 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
Oh, National Review went from annoyingly conservative to full blown wingnut crazy since 9/11/2001, and especially since Obama was elected - see, for example, Andy McCarthy, Victor Davis Hanson, etc. But this will go from there to Drudge to FoxNews then to CNN, MSNBC, and the nets. That's the way it works. NR knows that Drudge will link to them and once that happens, well, we know that Drudge rules their world.
Oh, and the top story on CNN right now is that Wilson has raised $200K from his screaming outburts. Towards the end of the story it mentions that Rob Miller has raised $750K as a result of the same outburts. But I don't recall CNN running Miller's haul as a top story. And Miller's cash was basically unsolicited...that racist idiot Wilson is putting out YouTube videos painting himself as a martyr for the cause and asking for cash.
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VivaAmerica!
September 11, 2009 1:09 PM in reply to ogliberal
I think the Left declared it a win first.
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mcc
September 11, 2009 2:22 PM in reply to VivaAmerica!
It was a win for Joe Wilson. WIlson chooses to bring up his concerns re: the intersection of health care and immigration law by screaming like a second grader during a Presidential speech, and within 48 hours the bill is changed to address his concerns. How does this not validate Wilson's ideas and methods? What Conrad and Baucus are communicating here is that they side with Joe Wilson.
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VictorLH
September 11, 2009 3:37 PM in reply to mcc
Yes, as I said in a previous post Baucus and Conrad are idiots.
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NobleCommentDecider
September 11, 2009 4:40 PM
Baucus arrested nurses and doctors who disturbed his committee meeting, I guess he has one rule for Democrats and one for his Republican teabagger buddies.
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dissenting justice
September 11, 2009 6:29 PM
This is about undocumented people. According to Pew (via Factcheck), 50 percent of undocumented people already have health insurance. So, all the new policy would do is leave the status quo the same.
Undocumented people would be unable to receive government assistance to purchase insurance. If they really want to avoid a fight, though,they should say that undocumented people cannot participate in the public plan option - but maybe they don't expect the public plan to survive anyway. In that case, it would be very difficult to enforce a requirement on private insurance companies to confirm immigration status.
Federal law does not prohibit undocumented people from purchasing insurance. Basically, conservatives would have to argue that the law should now ban undocumented people from even buying their own insurance -- which means they will go to ER and get "free" care. That's ridiculous. If they want to pay - it only helps the system.
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