FreedomWorks, the main organizers of the Tea Party event in Washington this past weekend, has dramatically lowered its estimate for the size of the crowd at the event from 1.5 million, a number the group now concedes was a mistake, to between 600,000 and 800,000 people -- though this is still substantially more than the tens of thousands that most mainstream media outlets have estimated, and which FreedomWorks wholeheartedly rejects.
The politically charged issue of crowd size is complicated by the fact that there is no official estimate -- not from the Park Service, not from the D.C. Police, nor the Fire Department, etc. In fact, a Fire Department spokesman that I talked to told me that whoever had given a figure of 60,000-70,000 to ABC News had not been authorized to do so. So there's no independent source to verify FreedomWorks' latest number.
"I really wish that the Park Service would come out with a number," said FreedomWorks spokesman Adam Brandon, in an interview with TPM. "I wish I was not doing this. If my mother calls me and asks how many, I'll say this was hundreds of thousands."
The group's revised estimate -- which it says comes from comparing photos and videos from the event to past marches on Washington -- is significantly lower than FreedomWorks' president Matt Kibbe's weekend foul-up, when he announced that ABC News was reporting attendance of 1.5 million. ABC declared that it had reported no such thing. Kibbe has publicly backed off: "With a dead IPhone, I had been shown tweets from a number of different folks behind the stage citing the ABC estimate. They didn't say it. I regret misrepresenting the network, as their coverage that day was fair and honest."
Brandon blames a cautious mainstream press for reporting that the crowd was only tens of thousands. "I don't know, I don't think they're crowd estimators, either," he said. "If you say tens of thousands, it's technically true, there were tens of thousands. But they're nervous about putting that hundreds of thousands number out there."
Brendan Steinhauser, the organizer of logistics for FreedomWorks, said this event should be put in the same category as Martin Luther King's historic march on Washington for civil rights or the Vietnam War protests. It was "definitely the largest conservative protest in American history," he told me, "and it's really not received the coverage it deserves."

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CT Voter
September 14, 2009 6:10 PM
Sweet Jesus.
And this?
is, well, um...TPM? Thank you for tracking down people involved in this and actually speaking to them about the issue. It's a very refreshing change from people simply printing assumptions.
That said, the comment quoted above is a bit weird.
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twoviragos
September 14, 2009 6:18 PM in reply to CT Voter
FreedomWorks: It's like the MLK march, except most of the people in attendance don't like black people.
As for the "if my mother calls me.." quote it's only because his mother is the only person who gives a shit what he thinks and will believe her wittle boo boo, no matter how full of it he is.
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CT Voter
September 15, 2009 7:50 AM in reply to twoviragos
Precisely.
I thought it was dirty effing hippie bloggers who lived with their parents, though. . .
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Chris
September 14, 2009 7:17 PM in reply to CT Voter
The only reason to lie about crowd numbers is because they are embarrassed. And here's why.
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Shalamarfine
September 14, 2009 6:10 PM
My understanding is that the unseen members of the crowd congregated in underground Syrian silos.
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LBJs Brain
September 14, 2009 6:13 PM
Can't we just get some Iranians with cell phones and be done with this?
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manyamile
September 14, 2009 6:21 PM
these nitwits are getting to much attention, even here on TPM
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hewhohasnoname
September 14, 2009 6:21 PM
"Brendan Steinhauser, the organizer of logistics for FreedomWorks, said this event should be put in the same category as Martin Luther King's historic march on Washington for civil rights or the Vietnam War protests."
Yeah, because when people marched on Washington for Civil Rights and against the Vietnam War, all people talked about in the subsequent days was how the event organizers exaggerated the size of the crowds.
Those were genuine demonstrations of "the people." The crowds were so massive and FOCUSED that this nation and its government had to take them seriously. People awed at those demonstrations. People have mostly guffawed or recoiled in disgust at this one. Big difference.
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converse
September 14, 2009 6:25 PM
YOU LIE!
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JNagarya
September 15, 2009 11:28 AM in reply to converse
You neglected to include the lie that was told:
"FreedomWorks' president Matt Kibbe's weekend foul-up, when he announced that ABC News was reporting attendance of 1.5 million. ABC declared that it had reported no such thing.
"Kibbe has publicly backed off: "With a dead IPhone, I had been shown tweets from a number of different folks behind the stage citing the ABC estimate. They didn't say it. I regret misrepresenting the network, as their coverage that day was fair and honest.""
Yeah: it was a dead iPhone, not a blatant lie. And is it guilt about the massivity of the lie which subverts the usual "LIB-RUL MEDIA!" lie?
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TavernWench
September 14, 2009 6:31 PM
Wait a minute... on 9/12, David Shuster of MSNBC tweeted the following, at 5:31 pm:
Freedomworks says their dc demonstration attracted 30,000 people. Park police official says that is being "generous."
http://twitter.com/DavidShuster/status/3941683695
So now they've gone from 1.5 million, to 30,000, to 600,000 to 800,000? For serious?
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DF
September 14, 2009 6:31 PM
Shorter Kibbe: Why won't the MSM rubber-stamp our astro-turf as legit?
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RobertSeattle
September 14, 2009 6:33 PM
Give'em a break. It was 60,000 wingnuts and 540,000 liberal bloggers covering the event.
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JohnW1141
September 14, 2009 6:38 PM in reply to RobertSeattle
RobertSE,
hahhaahahahhaha good one :-)
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LBJs Brain
September 14, 2009 6:38 PM in reply to RobertSeattle
Bea-u-ti-ful. Thank you for that.
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JNagarya
September 15, 2009 11:38 AM in reply to RobertSeattle
I heard it was at very least 1.5 million liberal bloggers.
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T Groan
September 14, 2009 6:47 PM
When are the progressives going to get angry, have protests, and get media coverage? These people maybe nuts but at least they are audacious enough to publicly display their disgust and outrage (faux though it maybe). We need some of this on the left.
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JennOfArk
September 14, 2009 7:53 PM in reply to T Groan
Seriously, I wish we had had twice their number there this weekend, doing a parody protest. You know, marching with an upside-down banner with "Imbeciles for America UNTIE!!!" ala the Far Side, carrying signs with slogans such as "Don't tread on my right to be bankrupted by a medical insurer!!!" and such like. Ignoring them doesn't work; maybe mass ridicule would.
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foodchain11
September 15, 2009 10:06 AM in reply to JennOfArk
I like this idea. Anger doesn't seem to help; we all just get angrier. But finding a way to embarass them--that's how social change begins. We can't seem to educate these people at all so I guess we have to resort to shaming them. Besides, thinking up parodies is a lot more fun
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twoviragos
September 15, 2009 11:52 AM in reply to foodchain11
Yeah, and given that we are liberals, the food and drink at our event would probably be much better. We could call it the Million Snark March.
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thisniss
September 15, 2009 9:04 AM in reply to T Groan
Um, there were 10000+ at Obama's rally that day. There have been numerous large, local pro-reform gatherings (the largest I've heard about was Seattle's 30000). It's not that the left doesn't demonstrate, it's that the traditional media don't give a shit about rational, well-organized, coherent arguments and their proponents. If they did, the Million Mom March (which was on the scale of 10x larger) would have achieved something more than an ever-increasing press and politico devotion to the gun lobby. The system is rigged to prioritize frothing crazy. But the way to win isn't to respond with louder, identical techniques. The best way to fight crazy is with clever, which is why the "Billionaires for Wealthcare" counter-protest was one of the most effective responses I've seen to the Birth-Baggers.
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bill57
September 15, 2009 11:35 AM in reply to thisniss
completely agree. also love the counter "parody" march idea. organizers could claim to the msm that marchers numbered in the 10s of millions.
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TavernWench
September 14, 2009 6:54 PM
The Fire Dept. spox is interesting... was the person who tweeted the following also not authorized to provide this information? Does this mean all the information tweeted on 9/12 was inaccurate and unauthorized?
UPDATE - several people treated for injury and illness on the Mall nothing extraordinary unofficial crowds 60,000-75,000 UNOFFICIAL
12:43 PM Sep 12th from mobile web
http://twitter.com/dcfireems/status/3936606105
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mzmullerz
September 14, 2009 6:54 PM
also from shuster: "I've covered rallies at dc capitol for 20 years. When the crowd goes only as far as 3rd st, it is 50,000 or less."
5:57 PM Sep 12th from web
http://twitter.com/DavidShuster/status/3942120853
so there's that.
and this: "Brendan Steinhauser, the organizer of logistics for FreedomWorks, said this event should be put in the same category as Martin Luther King's historic march on Washington for civil rights or the Vietnam War protests." made me throw up a little in my mouth. puh-leaze.
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forked tongue
September 14, 2009 6:55 PM
Aren't there satellite photos? I saw satellite photos of the Inauguration crowd. You'd think a simple visual comparison would, if not settle the question, at least narrow the grounds for disagreement.
This is assuming, of course, that the teabag crowd was large enough to show up in a satellite photo.
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bluesplashy
September 14, 2009 7:15 PM in reply to forked tongue
"This is assuming, of course, that the teabag crowd was large enough to show up in a satellite photo."
You answered your own question!
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dal20402
September 14, 2009 7:24 PM
No way, no how. I live in DC, about a block from Pennsylvania Avenue where they started their march. I would be shocked if this crowd was even 50,000. DC was busy, but not at all disrupted the way it is when the big crowds come through.
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traitorjoe
September 14, 2009 7:28 PM
Wait a second ... if all the tea-baggers were in DC, who was protecting our borders this weekend??
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thisniss
September 15, 2009 9:10 AM in reply to traitorjoe
I'm sure Lou Dobbs didn't mind filling in. He's used to being a one-man border patrol. I just worry about all TX Minute Men who are going to have to relocate to guard the northern border once their state secedes.
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this
September 14, 2009 7:30 PM
Max Fisher over at The Atlantic Politics site: http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/09/the_other_912_rally.php
Says this in an article title "The Other 9/12 Rally":
'What no one has noted is that two-thirds of the National Mall was filled by an entirely separate event on Saturday that had nothing to do with protesting the president. September 12 just happened to be the 24th-annual Black Family Reunion...'
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runfastandwin
September 14, 2009 7:32 PM
40,000 max. I have been going to football games at the Rose Bowl for 20 years, which holds 100,000, and this crowd was less than half of that.
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pakaal
September 14, 2009 8:09 PM
"Brandon blames a cautious mainstream press for reporting that the crowd was only tens of thousands."
This from the group that posts photos from decades-old rallies and relies on Twitter as their primary source of information on crowd size. You'll forgive us if we aren't exactly ready to take anything you say as factually-based at this point.
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johnmccsf
September 14, 2009 8:33 PM
Kleefeld's Kovering. What does he want?
I tell ya what I want - the same coverage given the nationwide and DC anti-war marches in 2002.
Nothing hurts the morale of a protester more than being ignored by the media.
Take my word for it
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grimshizzle
September 14, 2009 9:21 PM
Yes, if you ignore all the confederate flags and that person with a sign reading "DIVERSITY IS A DISEASE," this is JUST like MLK.
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sbv
September 14, 2009 9:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1I9xsV-g9Y
let's save the status quo brought to you by the billionaires for wealthcare; just too damn funny!
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Cal Gal
September 15, 2009 2:58 AM in reply to sbv
Rachel showed it. Friggin' hilarious. Looks the birthers liked it, too. Too stupid to realize it was satire? Probably. They are obviously pretty damned stupid.
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Guido Fanconi
September 14, 2009 10:24 PM
I don't think that the media was counting all the fetuses. You HAVE TO COUNT the fetuses. Oh, and does it count if the RNC paid people to attend?
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Chris
September 14, 2009 10:32 PM
The largest conservative protest in American history??? Has there ever been conservative protests before? Sure we had Southerners ganging up with torches demanding slavery for people like Obama just after Lincoln was elected, but has there ever been an actual "conservative protests" before? Maybe I'm dumb on this. Wouldn't be the first time.
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acamus
September 15, 2009 1:13 AM in reply to Chris
well there was those wildly "successful" teabag protests. And then there are gathering in front of abortion clincis where they have had been quite effective in terrifying women trying to exercise control over the own body.
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raiatean
September 15, 2009 1:24 AM
How many thousands were hanging around the mens restrooms in the parks... betcha Santorum, Rash Lintballs and Glenn baby were there on their knees... Boy butter musta been on special for the huge overflow errrrrrrrrr....... Hoo boy!!!!
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Cal Gal
September 15, 2009 2:59 AM
I thought the War Against Northern Aggression was the largest conservative protest in our Nation's history. Silly me.
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MarkOfOhio
September 15, 2009 6:55 AM
We get many more people here in the OSU horseshoe stadium for an ordinary Buckeye football game than the number of yahoos marching in Washington. And they were drawing on the entire nation, whereas most Buckeye attendees are from central Ohio.
Some big event! Just another wackaloon fraud.
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LuxVeritas
September 15, 2009 8:07 AM
I was there, and there their estimates are at least 10x reality. My friends and I estimated 30-50k. No matter how much they'd like to, they don't get to claim the numbers from the Black Family Reunion up the Mall. There is simply no way in hell they had more than 60k, and really, if I had to guess I'd put it much closer to the 30k end.
Obviously these people are trustworthy, the entire event is based on lies, so why not lie about the count too? There is practically nothing they *won't* lie about. It is pathological, really.
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dupod
September 15, 2009 8:57 AM
Well, it may have only been 30,000-60,000 bodies, but they're just so special, each physical person counts as, like, 10 people. It's the new new math.
And I hate to be ageist, but the funniest thing about that hearse picture with the "no government run healthcare" slogan on the side? Both the driver and the passenger look to be either qualified for Medicare, or approaching eligibility.
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JNagarya
September 15, 2009 11:35 AM
Let's parse this dance:
"Brendan Steinhauser, the organizer of logistics for FreedomWorks,"
He has a dog in the fight, but he's not biased, cuz the dog is old enough to be on Medicare, as shown by the fact it is toothless.
"said this event should be put in the same category as Martin Luther King's historic march on Washington for civil rights or the Vietnam War protests."
I agree. It should be put with those in the category, "Protest Marches in and on Washington, C.C."
"It was "definitely the largest conservative protest in American history," he told me,"
I agree: it visually demonstrates just how few "conservatives" there are in the US.
As for "in American history": I'm sure he researched that question, so can back up his finding with visual proof -- photographs, video clips, copper engravings of protest gatherings by the Founders.
"and it's really not received the coverage it deserves."
I agree it hasn't been sufficiently exposed as a massively hyperbolic lie that there are as many as a million teabag nutballs in the US.
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samifloo
September 15, 2009 1:04 PM
If anyone wants to insist there were hundreds of thousands of protesters show them this link.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1206558/Forty-years-Woodstock-happened-couple-photograph-defined-generation.html
This is what half a million people in one place looks like. Just scroll down to the bottom of the page.
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Partisancheese
September 15, 2009 3:02 PM in reply to samifloo
That's awesome. I thank you, kind contributor, for your post. Too bad they can't count anyway. My turnout estimate? Probably 30,000 at most.
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Mike Licht
September 17, 2009 7:41 PM
It was hard to estimate DC Tea Party crowd size with so many walker-wielding Medicare recipients protesting government healthcare.
See:
http://notionscapital.wordpress.com/2009/09/17/march-of-the-disgruntled-in-dc/
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Evlon
September 23, 2009 12:31 AM
I have done my own study base on devised methodology and calculation which you can find here:
http://deathbymedia.wordpress.com/2009/09/22/912-washington-dc-tea-party-rally-crowd-estimation/
It's backed by evidence (pictures and clips) and determining the boundaries of the protesters and calculation of final tally derived from the density of the crowd at each given block. My calculus puts the figures around 130k up to 160k.
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