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Grijalva: It Would Be A Mistake for the White House to Cut a Deal Without Us.


Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-AZ)

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Long before President Obama met yesterday with a coterie of conservative Senate Democrats to discuss health care reform, he had invited key Congressional liberals to the White House, ahead of his health care speech before Congress, to brief them and hear them out on the public option.

Except that meeting never happened. According to a House Democratic source, the White House never called back.

Today, I asked Congressional Progressive Caucus co-chair Raul Grijalva (D-AZ) whether he thought that sequence of events was reflective of the White House's priorities. He mostly played it down.

"I don't think so. We'll see," he said. "We sent a letter saying we need a meeting. I think the black caucus and the tri-caucus have done the same."

Grijalva is adamant that health care legislation include a public option--he insists that reform can not survive the legislative process otherwise.

"We're going to continue to ask for that meeting," Grijalva told me, adding that he hopes it can happen next week. "Sequence and timing, one can say we're being dealt with last. But, and not to overblow the situation that we're in, passage in the House will have to go through progressive test."

"I'm not bothered," Grijalva added, before warning, "I would hope that the administration is wise enough not to cut a deal without us. It would be a mistake."

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September 11, 2009 5:24 PM   

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.), a member of CPC leadership, estimates that eighty to 100 members will make the pledge [to oppose a bill without a pubic optin]. The progressive caucus met on Thursday, following the president's speech, and members repeated their commitment to seeing the public option included in the bill, said Ellison.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/11/head-count-house-progress_n_283756.html

Good on them! Stand strong!

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September 11, 2009 5:30 PM    in reply to Indie Pro

Be careful what you wish for. You may get a public option that is emasculated to the point it's useless. As it is it's available to so few people it's unlikely to provide much of a threat to insurance companies.

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mcc

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September 11, 2009 5:37 PM    in reply to mans_best_friend

There's a reason the CPC is demanding a "strong" progressive option.

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mcc

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September 11, 2009 5:38 PM    in reply to mcc

"strong" progressive option.

Durrr, strong public option.

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September 11, 2009 5:54 PM    in reply to mcc

The problem is, most people won't know what's actually in the bill. Hell, most people posting here don't know what's in the bill - they just demand a pubic option. And if they get it they'll be so busy high-fiving that they won't notice that what they actually got was nothing.

The point I've been trying to make for the last several days is that if they have to compromise to get those last few votes (and it appears more and more likely that they will), I'd rather the compromise be a trigger or a real, working co-op than have something called a public option but so emasculated as to be useless.

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September 11, 2009 6:03 PM    in reply to mans_best_friend

Thanks. I know what's in the bills. I'm following the process.

I am also unwilling to forget about the real world application of the bill

especially mandates on individuals.

Some industry executives on Thursday acknowledged the president’s shift in tone. “The rhetoric seemed to be much more positive,” said Ronald A. Williams, the chief executive of Aetna, one of the nation’s largest health insurers.

The reality may also be much more favorable to insurers, industry analysts said. Mr. Obama has already agreed to grant one of the industry’s dearest wishes: a requirement that everyone have coverage, which is reflected in the proposals in Congress.

I know why they are happy. Do you?

Do you understand the hardships and pain that will come from a bill that short changes those who aren't covered by subsidies, or aren't fully covered by subsidies?

Why are you willing to get incremental legislation passed, like Kennedy's wonderful No Child Left Behind on the backs of working people?

How do you remain willfully ignorant of the studies posted on TPM regardsing these issues? I've reposted them odzens of times.

Krugman, Reich, and many others have given plenty of reasons why it is needed, and why a coop fails to be a replacement. Why triggers are useless, as they are more often than not removed.

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September 11, 2009 6:05 PM    in reply to Indie Pro

I left this off of my quote:

The reality may also be much more favorable to insurers, industry analysts said. Mr. Obama has already agreed to grant one of the industry’s dearest wishes: a requirement that everyone have coverage, which is reflected in the proposals in Congress.

here where it is from:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/health/policy/11insure.html?_r=1&ref=us

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September 11, 2009 6:07 PM    in reply to Indie Pro

oops. I just didn't italicize it. Oh well.

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September 11, 2009 6:15 PM    in reply to Indie Pro

You don't have to convince me of the virtues of a robust public option. But I'm also a realist. Right now the votes aren't there and I don't see how he's going to get them without giving some ground. So unless you have some magic incantation you can use to convince those last few Senators, here's the choice you have: decide what compromises you're willing to make or have others decide for you by default. Or you can choose not to choose, which is a choice.

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September 11, 2009 6:23 PM    in reply to mans_best_friend

Drop the mandates

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September 11, 2009 6:41 PM    in reply to Indie Pro

You can't. That's why this is so difficult - it can't be addressed piecemeal.

You can't ban denial for pre-existing conditions without near-universal coverage and community rating.

You can't have near-universal coverage without making it affordable.

You can't make it affordable without near-universal coverage and community rating.

You can't have community rating without...well, it just keeps going around in a circle.

Essentially every element above is non-controversial except how to make insurance affordable. That's the end. Public option is a means to an end, but don't confuse the means with the end and don't get hung up on a name. If it achieves the goal, I don't care what you call it, and if it gets us 90% of the way there, I'd rather have that than 0%.

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September 13, 2009 10:40 AM    in reply to mans_best_friend

you can't

you must.

no mandates without a public option.

you say it can't be addressed piecemeal yet you insist that the public option can be pulled out while leaving the mandates in place. you seem to have your own argument confused.

if the public option goes, the mandates have to go with it. they are a package deal.

pulling out the public option while leaving in the mandates is not only doing it piecemeal, it's doing it assbackwards. one piece follows the other. mandates follow from the public option, not the other way around.

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September 14, 2009 1:33 PM    in reply to mans_best_friend

Damn it I wish you know-it-alls would get the facts:

There IS NOT A BILL. There are some FOUR pending in the House, and at least ONE in the Senate.

Do the math.

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September 11, 2009 5:46 PM    in reply to Indie Pro

I love you Keith! Speaking of the DFL as in - Labor - what this country needs is a new Liberal-Labor party, a party for all those not bought by big corporate.

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September 11, 2009 5:38 PM   

Obviously their mistake was to applaud the Pres instead of insulting him on Wednesday. If one of them had screamed, maybe Baucus and Conrad would have agreed to the public option.

I think Obama may be in for a bit of an awakening when he wants more funds for his wars or wants to extend the Bush tax cuts on dividends and capital gains, situations where the progressives really will have leverage because to do nothing IS their favored option.

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September 11, 2009 5:44 PM    in reply to Mimi katz

hilarious!

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September 11, 2009 6:33 PM   

For Ellison, the debate over the public option is refreshing because it sharpens the ideological distinctions between the parties.

"Whose side are you on? It's actually great. We're peeling this onion back and we're getting down to a fundamental question regarding American economic justice

Sounds like a purity test to me. Worked so well for the Republicans. Moonbats and Wingnuts - what's the difference?

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September 11, 2009 6:43 PM    in reply to Walter Mitty

What's the difference between Max Baucus and Chuck Grassley? Sure, we do have one party consisting of mainly lunatics. That has left us with one remaining major party which has made the choice to be Main Street/Big Corporate conservative.

Keith represents MN-5 and I could drive across it last October and see 95 Obama signs for every 1 McCain sign. That's why MN-6 (Michele Bachmann) doesn't determine who wins MN. That's the difference that should matter to the party.

Keith represents his voters. The party does not.

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September 13, 2009 11:09 AM    in reply to Walter Mitty

stand for nothing, stand for anything. what's the difference?

sharpening ideological distinctions between the parties is a good thing. for both parties.

particularly in terms of where the parties stand on 'economic justice'.

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September 13, 2009 7:51 PM    in reply to Walter Mitty

I'll let TNR's Jonathan Chait answer you:

Middle of Nowhere

Splitting a baby is actually a bad thing.

I think that often where I am is just in the middle. The middle is often the commonsensical place to be. The notion that one side is right and one side is wrong is generally, as one finds in life, not the case.”

--political commentator Cokie Roberts

Roberts has a great point. The sensible position usually does lie halfway between two extremes. Just look at history. In the 1960s, the country was split between extremists who wanted to deny civil rights to African Americans, and extremists who insisted on completely equal rights everywhere. The dispute caused so much strife and anger because no sensible moderates could be found to stake out the middle ground between these equally radical positions--say, desegregating some institutions but not others, or letting black people vote in every other election.

Or consider the nasty contretemps between Galileo and the Catholic Church. Both sides staked out such unyielding positions on whether the Sun revolved around the Earth or vice versa. A lot of vitriol could have been avoided if each party had agreed to the simple proposition that the two bodies revolve around each other.

OK, so maybe Roberts doesn’t have a great point. But she does have an extremely seductive point. The notion that you can determine a sensible position simply by stopping halfway between the Democratic and Republican stances is one of the enduring fallacies of public life. There are few more sought-after labels in American politics than “moderate” or “centrist.” They signify an independent thinker, unbound by ideological or partisan dogma....

A huge proportion of self-styled “centrist” thought simply boils down to surrendering one’s own capacity to make normative judgments about politics and public policy....

... “Half a loaf is better than none” is a good argument to make to liberals who might be disappointed with an imperfect final deal. It’s not a good argument on behalf of centrists who are themselves forcing liberals to take half a loaf. Senator Kent Conrad spent months insisting liberals should abandon a public option because it couldn’t pass. Finally, he admitted that he, too, opposed it.

The fetishization of compromise often overlooks whether such a compromise makes any inherent sense. Not all issues lend themselves to compromise. Joe Lieberman recently piped up that he prefers to take minor steps on health care--such as banning insurance company discrimination against those with preexisting conditions--and forego covering the uninsured.

But, if you forbid insurance companies from discriminating against the sick without bringing healthy people into the risk pool, then healthy people would have no reason to buy insurance. They could just wait until they get sick and take out a policy, and the insurance companies would have to sell them one. Rates would skyrocket, and the whole system would become unaffordable. Some say we should build a bridge across a river. Others say we shouldn’t. Joe Lieberman wants to build a bridge halfway across.

Lieberman explained his rationale by reaching for a historical analogy. “I think great changes in our country often have come in steps,” he said a couple of weeks ago. “The civil rights movement occurred--changes occurred in steps.” Actually, almost all of the civil rights movement’s progress happened in one big bang, after decades of stagnation. It also required the Senate to put the needs of the country ahead of its own customs by circumventing the committee that had traditionally bottled up civil rights legislation. There is a lesson here for the present day, though not the one Senate centrists seem to have absorbed.

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