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Hatch: I Sincerely Doubt Snowe or Collins Will Support Health Care Reform
Sen Orrin Hatch (R-UT)
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What did conservative Republicans think of President Obama's health care speech last night? Not very much, apparently. Sen Orrin Hatch (R-UT)--who, you'll recall was a part of the "gang of six" back when it was the "gang of seven"--even went so far as to predict that the proposal Obama outlined would get zero Republican votes. No Collins. No Snowe.
"I really sincerely doubt if Olympia or Susan will go with them. I really sincerely doubt that Chuck Grassley and Senator Enzi will go with them," Hatch said.
The one thing the President said where people can get insurance across state lines, anywhere in the country, lowest possible prices they can, that's a good idea but that's an idea that Republicans came up with long ago. That takes some conservative Democrats came up with that as well. When he talked about medical liability reform, he is talking about, you know, small projects. We don't need small projects.
We'll have video for you shortly. And, we'll try to get an answer from Sens. Snowe and Collins on what they think of Hatch's powers of prognostication.
Late update: Video Below.
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Mimi katz
September 10, 2009 2:19 PM
Isn't "insurance across state lines" code for "doing qaway with state insurance laws?" Create a race to the bottom like with South Dakota and Delaware on credit cards?
This is the signal to go forward with with a Dems-only bill by holding the 60 to invoke cloture and let them vote however they want. Then run against the GOPers for voting against a pilot program on tort reform and holding insurers to simple reforms like doing away with pre-existing conditions and recissions.
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agio
September 10, 2009 3:02 PM in reply to Mimi katz
Pretty much, yes.
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Economides
September 10, 2009 3:50 PM in reply to Mimi katz
Here's how you can tell they are insincere:
"Orrin, my problem with your plan is that it allows insurers to locate in the states with the most lax regulations. That would leave consumers unprotected. How about instead we just create one giant nationwide insurance market/exchange subject to unified regulations?
Orrin, Texas has one of the strictest caps on malpractice wards in the country. It lowered judgments and liability premiums for doctors, so why so does Medicare spend twice as much in McAllen as El Paso. Why does the Methodist hospital in Houston, TX spend almost twice as much per chronically ill Medicare patient the Scott& White clinic in Temple TX. Why are there costs still going up?
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KY Yellow Dog
September 10, 2009 2:47 PM
Excellent! NOW can we stop trying to buy repug love and just pass the fucker under reconciliation?
For all the repug and Blue Dog votes it's going to get in the end anyway, we could have gotten the same result six months ago.
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agio
September 10, 2009 3:02 PM in reply to KY Yellow Dog
We might not even need reconciliation if Obama can convince his own party to hold firm on cloture regardless of whether they will vote for the measure or not.
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Walter Mitty
September 10, 2009 4:16 PM in reply to agio
When is Kennedy's seat going to be filled?
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agio
September 11, 2009 4:30 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
As soon as next week, I believe.
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plzgetreal
September 10, 2009 3:18 PM
"people can get insurance across state lines, anywhere in the country, lowest possible prices they can, that's a good idea"
Right let's follow the banking industry model because it has worked so well.
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tiowally
September 10, 2009 3:45 PM
It simply can't be said enough: "Fuck you, Orrin, you and your lobbyist kids!"
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Maritza
September 10, 2009 4:12 PM
I actually believe that Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins would sign on in the end. That is just Hatch's wishful thinking.
Olympia Snowe has made it clear that she is willing to negotiate and she has been negotiating in good faith all these months.
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fbacon2
September 10, 2009 4:44 PM in reply to Maritza
I tend to agree, but I hope we don't bet the farm on it. Snowe and Collins have yet to come under the full weight of the party pressure now that Grassley and Enzi are now officially gone from the table.
There will be a dynamic when a compromise plan is in the offering, and Snowe will be under intense pressure to demand more. The White House needs to figure out how far they're willing to be pushed, and Snowe needs to figure out if getting health care to her constituents is worth more than making the crazies in her party leadership angry. But the White House shouldn't waste any time and should be ready to move to Plan B (or is it D at this point?).
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PorkBelly
September 10, 2009 5:39 PM in reply to Maritza
Snowe and Collins are not going to sign on to a bill that most of us would call reform.
It's not because they are craven. They have nothing to fear.
Part of it is that they believe a public option (or anything that met those cost containment goals) would put insurance companies out of business.
The other part is that Maine is one of those states where one insurance company (Wellpoint) controls about 90% of the market. Both senators from ME take sizable donations from that industry.
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Stiggs
September 10, 2009 4:43 PM
Republicans are screaming about this not being bipartisan but when republican ideas get put in they say "we came up with that ages ago" like it's a freaking contest. Republicans scream about torte reform (2% of medical costs, people, 2%!), it gets included and Hatch correctly identifies it as a small project and a waste of time.
Next republicans are going to say "what we really need is to do away with insurance companies entirely and have health care administered by the federal government, maybe as an extension of medicare, and while we're at it why don't we just make it free for everybody - it really won't cost that much".
I really wish we could just start ignoring them now. And I wish Obama had learned his lesson from the stimulus - the whole "I put in things that they would want from the beginning thinking that would get them on board, next time I should ask for what I really want and then negotiate down to an agreement" thing.
They should have started off the debate with universal single payer care, illegal immigrants getting top priority for all treatments, death panels, gay abortions (they're just like regular abortions but scarier) and formal international apologies for 9-11, country music and fried dough. Oh and all hotel bibles get replaced by the Koran. And when the media question liberal politicians they should say "yeah, it's probably a really bad idea but the election was a landslide and we are incapable of gloating small".
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gharlane
September 10, 2009 10:52 PM in reply to Stiggs
Elections do have consequences :)
In all seriousness, you do seem to understand the art of negotiation a hell of a lot better than some in Washington -- well, some (most) Democrats, that is.
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Stiggs
September 10, 2009 11:19 PM in reply to gharlane
Sorry, I get angry sometimes. I'm getting better though.
I'd love to see some of those consequences people talk so much about. And I don't think that the Democrats don't understand negotiating, I just think they don't understand who they are negotiating with. They are reaching out to the other side, making concessions up front and talking about what is going to be best rather than what it is that they want. It's like they are negotiating with a group that cares and is interested in a really good and reasonable result. Or maybe like they are negotiating with Dems. They just need to learn when to take their marbles and go home, which was about six months ago.
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gharlane
September 11, 2009 1:40 AM in reply to Stiggs
Exactly. And that it was going to be this way, that the Republicans were going to behave this way, was obvious six -- hell, twenty-four months ago. Or should have been. In such a context, your opening gambit had better not be your bottom line (I know I'm restating your point, but you're right and it bears repeating). Your opening gambit had better be something more like you outlined above. Either (1) the Ds didn't understand that, which means they are ineffective, blind fools, or (2) they did understand that, which means they are playing us for fools. Again. Not sure which one yet, but I'm inclined to go with (2).
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Stiggs
September 11, 2009 8:40 AM in reply to gharlane
All I can say is that Reid has bee making Pelosi look brilliant. I keep expecting Reid to do a press conference that goes something like:
Reid: *sigh* I don't think we've got the votes to pass anything meaningful so I've been talking with the republican leadership and we're going to go ahead with the Bush health care plan.
awkward silence
Reporter: You mean the ... Obama plan?
Reid: No the Bush plan. He sent it up last week. It's written in crayon and has kool aid spilt on it so some of the pages are wrinkled and torn. But the stuff looks pretty good. I think he's been bored, so I figured we'd help him feel relevant. It's all a man can ... I'm sorry ...
thirty seconds of crying and cut to startled and confused looking anchor.
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Smooth Jazz
September 12, 2009 5:45 AM in reply to Stiggs
It's not about Democrats vs Republicans. It's about liberal Democrats vs conservative Democrats. I'll repost a comment I made a few moments ago on a different thread and also enclose some comments about bargaining at the end.
The majority of people in Arkansas oppose the public option, and so do both of their DEMOCRATIC Senators. A plurality of Nebraskans oppose the public option, and so does its DEMOCRATIC Senator Ben Nelson. If there was a poll for Louisiana and South Dakota, it is likely that the opposition of its DEMOCRATIC Senators would reflect the will of the people.
Reconciliation is a dead option, or at least the very last option where you get a bill that is Swiss cheese or moth eaten, and bogged so down by legal challenges that it is crippled. See the Senate Majority Whip's (Dick Durbin) remarks on this, as well as the Former Chief of Staff to the Senate Finance Committee on this (Lawrence O'Donnell).
"Reconciliation requires 50 votes plus the Vice President for final passage only. During the process of reconciliation on the Senate floor there are countless votes that require 60 votes because it requires you to waive the rules of reconciliation - that's done constantly in every single reconciliation process that goes to the Senate floor. They can't think about going to the Senate floor without 60 votes whether they're doing it in reconciliation or outside of reconciliation."
- Lawrence O'Donnell
Former Democratic Chief of Staff of the Senate Committee on Finance and blogger at the Huffington Post
Source
Time Index on Video 3:30
-------------------------
"Reconciliation. Do you think this bill can pass in a reconciliation process?" -
Lawrence O'Donnell
"No, I think that what you can pass in the reconciliation process are some important elements but a comprehensive health care reform bill requires the regular procedure - the regular business of the Senate. If we can't get 60 votes, which is the threshold vote for the regular procedure, then of course we have to consider reconciliation."
- Majority Whip Dick Durban
Time Index 2:20
Source
-------------
As for bargaining, Obama left the negotiating open to the entire Congress, so just remember who you're telling is too inept to bargain: more than 300 Democratic members of the US Congress who have been bargaining for all their life. Maybe making an artificial move towards the left would not have led opponents to follow suit.
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Official A
September 11, 2009 9:43 AM
Orrin Hatch, mental giant.
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Shrubbit
September 11, 2009 3:44 PM
Just watched the clip of Collins on MSNBC today. She was flogging all the Right Wing talking points. Unreal for someone so normally so moderate. They got to her. Somehow. Either she's totally drunk the kool aid or they've basically threatened to end her political career. Maybe now is a good time to put the heat on her to drop out of the GOP for good.
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