So, how much do the other bills save? How much would the 'Baucus' bill save if it had a robust public option? How much would single payer save? Is this the only criteria by which the bills will be judged?

According to the CBO --

http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=332

Yesterday CBO released a preliminary analysis, conducted with the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT), of H.R. 3200, the America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009, as introduced by several House committees on July 14. Earlier this week, CBO released a preliminary report on the health insurance coverage provisions of the bill; this latest report added analysis of the other provisions. According to CBO’s and JCT’s assessment, enacting H.R. 3200 would result in a net increase in the federal budget deficit of $239 billion over the 2010-2019 period. That estimate reflects a projected 10-year cost of the bill’s insurance coverage provisions of $1,042 billion, partly offset by net spending changes that CBO estimates would save $219 billion over the same period, and by revenue provisions that JCT estimates would increase federal revenues by about $583 billion over those 10 years.

I haven't tracked down the numbers for the HELP Committee bill yet, but I will do so ASAP.

Doug Elmendorf excluded new taxes in calculating the cost of the House health reform bill, and encouraged spin that it would add to the deficit.

But Doug Elmendorf included new taxes in calculating the cost of the Baucus bill, and encouraged spin that it would reduce the deficit.

Gee, it's almost as if Doug Elmendorf is a right-winger.

too bad the CBO didnt consider the massive risein premiums this bill will create sans public option

Any numbers that fly out of Washington for many many years now have all been "fuzzy math" that we somehow keep buying.

so, when it comes to the MORAL issue of taking care of our fellow citizens it's all about being penny-wise

yet when it comes to occupying other countries it's all about being pound-foolish, and besides the wasted money on contractors there's billions that simply disappeared that we'll never know where it ended up

good thing we have our priorities straight. America just doesn't have money to throw around. I mean how will we continue to bail out the banks if we misappropriate it on people?

I bet $81B is nothing compared to what we'd save with Medicare for all or any other kind of single payer system. Pity noone is calling for a CBO study of that.

Also, I pretty skeptical the government is going to be able to enforce a lot of the regulative language in the bill.

This is placebo reform unless they can get a public option like that envisioned by Jacob Hacker, modeled on Medicare but with increased benefits. He talks about pre-enrolling millions of government covered employees, Medicaid/SCHIP recipients, uninsured Americans (max. premiums - $70/mo. individuals, $200/mo family) creating an enormous risk pool. We'd spend less, get more. Most small group plans would be eliminated. It might save as much as $1T over 10 years using Medicare costs. If employers don't offer insurance, they have to pay a tax.