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Democracy Corps: GOP Voters Think Obama Is Destroying America, Thus GOP Leaders Can't Compromise

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On a conference call with reporters just now, Democracy Corps' James Carville, Stan Greenberg and Karl Agne went over their focus group study of Republican base voters and their worldview that President Obama is out to destroy the country -- and the pressure this puts on Republican voters to make no compromises with the Obama administration.

"I don't know if we'll say we were startled," said Carville, "but if you take the position that these Republican voters take, it's easy to see why it leads to this, but they really believe that Obama has a secret agenda here. And our view is this is a dominant view in the Republican Party."

Karl Agne also noted that GOP voters see the the party's leadership as too timid and not strong enough on the issues: "Their negative view of the Republican party is really startling."

Carville explained: "What they want is, if people in Washington look at the Republican Party, they say, gee, they really oppose everything the President does. What these folks say is what they're doing is not enough, they want more opposition. If you're a Republican and you watch this, and you don't want to get primaries, there's nothing here that tells you to go compromise on anything -- quite the contrary."

Later on, Stan Greenberg said that if he were in the Republican leadership, "I would be very careful about having people meet with Obama or talking with him or sounding like you don't want him to fail."

Agne said that this attitudes about Obama among independent voters, especially those who might lean somewhat conservative, is very different. "They harbor doubts, there's not doubt, but they want to see the president succeed, they want to see the country move forward," said Agne. "And that's diametrically opposed to what the Republican base voters want -- they want him to fail."

Another major theme on the call was that hatred of Obama is not centered around race -- the focus groups were given an open, relaxed environment to discuss what they thought, and this never came up. I asked whether race might be there as an undercurrent, taking shape in other forms such as birtherism, but even here the hosts shied away from it.

Greenberg said that while there were certainly some individuals who used racial epithets, it wasn't a motivating force overall. "I'm not saying people don't have racial attitudes, but in these discussions they didn't slip into a racial discussion," said Greenberg. "They had very explicit discussions about being accused of racism, and the one thing they gave Obama credence for was saying it's not racism."

Greenberg said the focus here has to be on ideology, and on the accusations that Obama is a socialist out to undermine America, as he's been accused of since the 2008 campaign: "It's not just tactical. It's deeply felt as a worldview, and what's at risk in a battle between the parties, as viewed by the conservative Republicans."

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55 comments

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October 16, 2009 1:16 PM   

I would guess the results are accurate. Welcome to the real world.

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October 16, 2009 2:18 PM    in reply to shooter242

No one questions the accuracy of the focus grouping. It's the "real world" part that makes us laugh.

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October 16, 2009 1:19 PM   

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-gabler2-2009oct02,0,7817347.story

For decades now, liberals have been agonizing because conservatives seem to win even when polls show that the public generally disagrees with them. In their postmortems, liberals have placed blame on the way they frame their message, or on the right-wing media drumbeat that drowns out everything else, or on the right's co-opting of the flag, Mom and apple pie, which is designed to make liberals seem like effete, hostile foreign agents.

It's understandable that liberals prefer to think of their subordination as a matter of their own inadequacies or of conservative wiles. Theoretically, you can learn how to improve your message or how to match wits with adversaries, and a lot of liberal hand-wringing has been dedicated to doing just that. But it is becoming increasingly clear that liberals haven't just been succumbing to superior message control, or even to a superior political narrative (conservatives' frontier individualism versus liberals' communitarianism). They are up against something far more intractable and far more difficult to defeat. They are up against religion.

Perhaps the single most profound change in our political culture over the last 30 years has been the transformation of conservatism from a political movement, with all the limitations, hedges and forbearances of politics, into a kind of fundamentalist religious movement, with the absolute certainty of religious belief.

I don't mean "religious belief" literally. This transformation is less a function of the alliance between Protestant evangelicals, their fellow travelers and the right (though that alliance has had its effect) than it is a function of a belief in one's own rightness so unshakable that it is not subject to political caveats. In short, what we have in America today is a political fundamentalism, with all the characteristics of religious fundamentalism and very few of the characteristics of politics.


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October 16, 2009 2:26 PM    in reply to Walter Mitty

Please post this widely. I think you have put your finger on it here in a way I hadn't really considered before. Very well presented, and very unsettling.

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October 16, 2009 3:13 PM    in reply to SleepinJeezus

Agree completely; I've seen glimpses of precisely this phenomena and it's deeply alarming.

Great analysis in your quote.

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October 16, 2009 1:22 PM   

Of course that's what the believe. I've been saying this for months. If someone watches Fox News all day long, listens to Rush Limbaugh or Hannity then they are totally under the assumption that Barack Obama is an enemy. If you truly believed the president was an enemy would you want to compromise? Heck no you wouldn't.

They are deranged yes. But They aren't faking their derangement. They really believe it

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October 16, 2009 1:33 PM   

So for a Republican politician, would this be equivalent to being locked in a minivan with a dozen Hare Krishnas and finding out that the accelerator is stuck, the brakes don't work and, oh yeah, you just passed a "Bridge Out Ahead" sign?

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October 16, 2009 1:35 PM    in reply to Schmed- ley

Except the doors aren't locked. They can get out any time they want to. They're just afraid to do so.

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October 16, 2009 1:41 PM    in reply to mans_best_friend

So, why don't they? Are they really incapable of producing an alternate policy that isn't always 180° from the Democrats? I can't believe that all of their thinkers are gone.

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October 16, 2009 1:50 PM    in reply to Schmed- ley

that's surprising to me too. there's got to be SOMEBODY in that party who realizes that this strategy isn't a winning one. you don't win elections by excluding people. you win them through INCLUSION.

of course, its possible that there are republicans who know this, but they're just too damned afraid of crossing these people.

but since republicans hate education, intellectualism, and actual governing, i guess i shouldn't be too surprised that their best plan for electoral success is to purge the party of all but the fringiest of fringe characters.

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October 16, 2009 2:53 PM    in reply to freaktown

Yes, well there are a few of them. Huntsman for one but he's been co-opted. As was the guy from NY-23. David Frum does his best to introduce reality and solid policy based critiques of the left but he's not a real popular guy on the right.

What's particuarly crazy about all of this is that some like Lindsay Graham is being rejected by many in his own party for being too soft. Lindsay Graham! The man is hardly an icon of liberalism.

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October 16, 2009 1:51 PM    in reply to Schmed- ley

Alternate ideas abound, the allure of a free ride is too much to overcome. Ideas like tort reform, allowing companies to go interstate, and increased transparency are all worthwhile and lost in the rush to a public option.

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October 16, 2009 1:55 PM    in reply to shooter242

good ol Shooter .. always amazes me how much crap he can pound out of one keyboard. What a joke.

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October 16, 2009 1:55 PM    in reply to shooter242

Why don't we see these ideas on GOP.com?

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October 16, 2009 1:58 PM    in reply to Schmed- ley

GOP.com/healthcare: "There are no entries to show."

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October 16, 2009 2:01 PM    in reply to shooter242

Ideas like tort reform, allowing companies to go interstate, and increased transparency are all worthwhile and lost in the rush to a public option.

And you guys lost your voices somehow? I thought you were media masters, able to drive any discussion. What happened to "Change The Game"?

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October 16, 2009 2:06 PM    in reply to shooter242

Jonathan Cohn agrees with Shooter

Health Care
Ten Things Worth Fighting For in a Health Care Bill

One of course is the public option but there are 9 others including those which Shooter listed

http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-treatment/the-top-ten-things-worth-fighting

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October 16, 2009 2:13 PM    in reply to shooter242

TNR Columnist sees disadvantage of selling across state lines :

http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-treatment/state-denial

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October 16, 2009 2:41 PM    in reply to shooter242

It seems that the exchanges envisioned in HR3200 allow insurance to be sold across state lines, yes? It's not an either-or situation. The public option doesn't erase the rest of the measures being proposed - it just reduces the ability for insurance companies to price fix which is estimated to reduce costs more than most other measures combined.

IMO, tort reform won't fix a damn thing - there is nothing that ensures "savings" will be passed on to the consumer. The CBO estimates seem to assume that the $5.4 billion per year in potential savings might be passed on, but I don't see much evidence in the real-world management of the health industry that would justify that assumption. In my world, an executive getting an extra $2 million (the most likely outcome for any reduction in overhead) doesn't really represent much improvement.

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October 16, 2009 3:16 PM    in reply to kgb999

It seems that the exchanges envisioned in HR3200 allow insurance to be sold across state lines, yes?
State insurance commission offices are notoriously weak and underfunded, so one would expect the GOP to promote the idea of 'selling insurance across state lines'.

Wait till we get 30 million Californians buying their insurance through North Dakota or Wyoming; wow, that outta be fun...

(snark)

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October 16, 2009 2:26 PM    in reply to Schmed- ley

They're afraid to. Embracing the kooks was a winning strategy until the more sane elements caught on and abandoned them.

The people next door to me used to have a dog that went in and out of the house through one of those doggie doors. One day the door accidentally got latched shut. and the dog kept banging his head against the door until he almost knocked himself out. It's kind of the same way with the R's. They just KNOW that's the way to win because it's always been that way before, and they just can't see that the political earth has shifted beneath their feet. Their basic worldview is one of stasis, and they don't deal well with change.

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October 16, 2009 2:40 PM    in reply to mans_best_friend

BTW, I retract the "Hare Krishnas" and insert "rodeo clowns."

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October 16, 2009 2:28 PM    in reply to Schmed- ley

Sounds like the Bush/Cheney years.

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October 16, 2009 2:41 PM    in reply to jeffgee

Those are the guys that jimmied the brakes and the gas pedal.

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October 16, 2009 1:50 PM   

Another thing I try to do when not bashing these fruitbats is feign empathy and try to feed their disgust with the GOP leadership ...country club republicans out to use them

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October 16, 2009 1:54 PM   

The take-away is that there is ZERO point in courting Republican votes for ANYTHING. If the Repukes are hostage to the batshit crazies, then trying to compromise with them is to let the WHOLE FUCKING COUNTRY be held hostage by Glenn fucking Beck.

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October 16, 2009 2:02 PM    in reply to expatjourno2

Actually quite the opposite. The more Obama tries to reach out the more he'll be rejected, the crazier they'll become, the more the GOP leadership will become isolated from its base and its base from the rest of the public


You don't have to give them anything

They won't take it anyway

Keep trying..keep offering...with a smile to be sure

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October 16, 2009 2:03 PM    in reply to expatjourno2

Better tell Obama that bipartisanship with these guys is as realistic as negotiating a chimpanzee down from a banana tree.

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October 16, 2009 2:08 PM    in reply to Schmed- ley

Oh I think he knows that. In fact I think he counts on it

Public Wants Bipartisan Bill — Unless They’re Told Of Consequences (Part 947)
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/public-wants-bipartisan-bill-unless-theyre-told-of-the-consequences-part-947/

Party of No
Hater Nation

How better to make the point than to reach out?

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October 17, 2009 4:28 PM    in reply to johnmccsf

Word.

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October 16, 2009 2:11 PM    in reply to Schmed- ley

Obama doesn't have to be told anything. He knows good and goddamned well what he's dealing with. He knew it before he took office. I think he's playing them just right. The more they act crazy, the more they lose the independents. No repub will get elected with 27-30% of the vote

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October 16, 2009 2:16 PM    in reply to lousgirl84

Agreed. I don't know why people keep thinking that Obama doesn't know this stuff, he's studied politics for a very long time.

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October 16, 2009 2:38 PM    in reply to VivaAmerica!

By George, I think he gets it


On Thursday night at a DNC fundraising dinner in San Francisco, President Obama took a new analogy in addressing his critics. "Another way of putting it is when, you know, I'm busy and [Speaker] Nancy [Pelosi]'s busy with our mop cleaning up somebody else's mess -- we don't want somebody sitting back saying, you're not holding the mop the right way." Obama paused for applause. "Why don't you grab a mop, why don't you help clean up."
Obama continued riffing -- "You're not mopping fast enough. That's a socialist mop" -- but sobered up quickly. "Grab a mop -- let's get to work."


By all accounts it was a magical evening. Tracy Chapman opened the event with her classic "Talkin' 'Bout a Revolution," and Barack and Nancy exchanged admissions of love. ("I love Nancy Pelosi"; "you are the greatest.")


Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/16/obama-to-critics-dont-tel_n_323590.html

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October 16, 2009 2:38 PM    in reply to VivaAmerica!

Perhaps because the media keeps focusing their viewers' attention on Obama's ongoing failure to get bipartisan support for his agenda.

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October 16, 2009 2:47 PM    in reply to Schmed- ley

Just so. Hater Nation. Party of NO

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October 16, 2009 2:24 PM    in reply to lousgirl84

When you're advesary is drowning throw him an anvil
James Carville

So if the worst thing a GOP leader can do is be seen with Obama, why not invite them to play basketball?

Done that

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October 16, 2009 2:00 PM   

Kudos to whoever chose the photo! Very tasteful :=P

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October 16, 2009 2:26 PM   

Key takeway IMO - Americans are not ideological by and large. They are practical, results oriented

Produce or perish

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October 16, 2009 2:31 PM   

The socially irresponsible journalism is dangerously legitimizing this behavior. What follows of course will be violence, anarchy and irrational hatred at every level.

I'm not even talking about FOX or right wing radio.

The news in this country is obsessed about "objectivity" than reason. Left's rational arguments are reported proportionally with the racist, uneducated, suicidal and criminal arguments from the tea-baggers on the right. Both are given "equal" levels of airtime, consideration and ultimately legitimacy.

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October 16, 2009 3:21 PM    in reply to kash79

Completely agree that news media and the rest of the culture need to stop legitimizing hate speech, which only feed this kind of 'fundamentalist religion'.

I think Max Blumenthal is correct: a lot of people simply cannot handle the intellectual, emotional, and psychological demands of democracy on the vast, massive scale we see.

For those who can handle it, it's a whole new wonderful world.

For those who can't... nightmare.

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October 16, 2009 2:32 PM   

I've always thought that they don't have a problem with Obama being black so much as they see him as "un-American" because of his name, because they think he's Arab or Muslim, because his father was African, because he lived overseas, etc. They might be more comfortable with a 100-percent African-American -- i.e. a black person who is descended from American slaves, was born and raised in the mainland U.S. etc. At least then, in their minds, they'd know that this person was American. And when they think of "racism" they think of prejudice against African-Americans, not prejudice against someone they perceive of as Arab or Muslim.

So it's not racism so much as xenophobia. Not that that's any better.

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October 16, 2009 2:33 PM    in reply to tinmanic

And also, they would prefer a white president more than either of these.

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October 16, 2009 3:48 PM    in reply to tinmanic

They may, in fact be racist, but race is just icing on the cake. They'd be just as lathered up if race wasn't an issue. They weren't that wild about Bill Clinton, if you recall. Racism is a symptom of the core issue, not the cause.

For the most part these people are stuck in another time, nostalgic for some world that never existed. I'd be surprised if half of them wouldn't be in favor of returning to the gold standard. They just can't deal with change, so they lash out at anything and anyone who represents change. Their solution to any complex problem is to go back in time to an imaginary place where the problems were simple. They want to live in Pleasantville.

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October 16, 2009 2:49 PM    in reply to tinmanic

Actually, I think he being Black is the core reason and the rest is either supplementary or window-dressing. While overt gestures of racism are minimal, for many teabaggers being Black (or non-White) is equivalent to the "other" and "un-American."

If it were not the Arab middle name, its the church, or the hairstyles and attire of his wife and children, or the a choice of furniture in the White House or his tie color. For many of these fringe-nuts, Obama's lifestyle and personality itself seems foreign and much of many the reasons hatred derive from the perceptions of Black man being the "other."

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October 16, 2009 2:52 PM    in reply to kash79

Raised in Louisiana my first 25 years...more subtle than that

You can't otherwise explain Michael Steele, Bobby Jindal, Alan Keyes

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October 16, 2009 3:00 PM    in reply to johnmccsf

The positions of Steel and Keyes really justify my argument, but I see your point on Jindal.

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October 16, 2009 2:50 PM   

Just because they were in "a relaxed environment" doesn't mean they're going to feel comfortable blurting out racist comments, even if they hold them. It's been made clear since the early 60s that holding racist attitudes is beyond the pale, and so most racism (unless you're Rush Limbaugh, apparently) has been driven into the realm of sub-text.

Anyone who doesn't believe that a good percentage of the vehemence about Obama is racism is deluding themselves. (Would the "birther" movement even exist if Obama were white?)

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AJM

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October 16, 2009 5:58 PM    in reply to dougom

So how do we make their desire to see America fail beyond the pale?

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October 16, 2009 3:06 PM   

It's not overt racism. It's outrage at seeing the cracks in there "way of life" ie white privilege. They are realizing that they will no longer be be getting the "perks" they used to receive, for people that didn't have much to begin with, the privilege of being white is all they have.

I think for many it's sub-conscious. Ultimately, it's racist behavior but certainly not overtly so, or even consciously so, and most won't "go there" if asked about it.

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October 16, 2009 3:07 PM   

er, THEIR "way of life"

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AJM

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October 16, 2009 6:00 PM   

The Rethuglicans are in part reaping what they have sown: they have connived in whipping up their base by hatred to the point that what the base demands in the primary will ensure that the Rethuglican politicians will have difficulty winning in the general.

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October 17, 2009 8:17 AM   

Oh brother. You guys are going to defend the following?
* Dropping a complaint of Black Panthers wielding a club outside a voting area?
* Dozens of czars?
* Taking over GM and Chrysler, denying bondholder rights and giving the companies to unions?
* Demanding the CEO of a bank buy a fraudulent company, then taking away his salary by decree of a czar?
* Protection and enrichment of Goldman Sachs with tax money?
* Hollywood's attempt to protect a man that sodomized a 13 year old girl?
* Made czar a man that encouraged statutory rape, to protect minors?
* Tripled Bush's largest deficit?
* Passed a trillion dollar Appropriation sight unseen?
* Can't decide what to do about the liberal's war in Afghanistan?
* Supported a Chavez wannabe, against a nation's Constitution?
* Deserting eastern europe allies in favor of a Russian dictatorship that just espoused the doctrine of pre-emptive nuke attacks?
* Promises even more tax increases than the automatic ratchet to Clinton rates?
* Carbon taxes after a decade of cooling?
* Protection of chief Dem tax writer for tax evasion?
* Stops investigation of Countrywide payoffs to Democrats?
* Threatens to nationalize healthcare with obviously bogus promises of cost savings?
* Death Panels?
* Forcing health workers to take flu shots?
* Condones black ball of Limbaugh as owner, while Fergie is accepted?
* Ignores Matthews description of assassinating Limbaugh?
* Deny speech to Gore questioner in press conference?
* Stimulus "jobs" primarily in Fed Bureaucracy?
* Encouraging racism in the left?

And this is just off the top of my head. Obama and the left are inept, corrupt, and incompetent. That's why people don't like them. Anything else is wishful thinking on your part.
Tsk.


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Tra

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October 18, 2009 12:54 AM    in reply to shooter242

Teleprompterz!!!!1111! Also!!!!!!!

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October 17, 2009 9:49 AM   

Whew! I made a vow, after CNN started ranting on PO after his first 100 days in office, that I wouldn't/couldn't watch their right wing lies anymore. I concluded that Lou Dobbs and John King had bought the station with the aid of the Get Our President loonies, but I broke my vow and a few minutes ago I visited their site and luckily I escaped with my reason still intact. I have had to correct so many errors in my posting, I can only imagine that those who follow Faux lies daily, must be totally brain dead. I just read a post there from a Canadian (like me), who complained that his son had an accident, had to wait to be treated at the hospital, and is now pissed that he owes $550.00 for the ambulance charge. I wanted to respond that when the loonie conservatives gained power in Ontario (toronto blue jays) in the 80's, they wanted American style health care, you know the type that is anti-immigrant, and they started gutting the hospitals. From the hospital I worked at, they immediately closed 200 beds, severely slashed all funding for hospitals, the result being that now we are trying our hardest to fix the mess they left the province (state) in. Sounds familiar?. Conservatives the world over are driven by the same principle i.e., if I'm okay, then who cares about you.

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October 19, 2009 8:57 AM   

if I'm okay, then who cares about you.

Worse than that -- the vibe I get is "If I'm okay and you're not, then they only way for me to keep being okay is to make sure you keep being not okay." The GOP sees everything everywhere in zero-sum terms, and that's really frickin' sad.

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