For the last week folks across Washington - from the Commerce Department to Senate leadership to left-leaning advocacy groups - have had a bad case of heartburn over a potential floor fight on an amendment Republican senators were pushing to force the Census Bureau to ask immigration status during their 2010 count.
I wrote about the issue last week when Sen. David Vitter (R-LA) and Sen. Bob Bennett (R-UT) attempted to attach the amendment to the Commerce, Justice and Science appropriations bill outlining spending for the next year.
Senate leaders feared the amendment was getting some support from red-state Democrats so the Obama administration worked furiously to get it stripped from the bill, killed or at least pushed down the road to debate when Congress finally tackles immigration reform.
Commerce Sec. Gary Locke made a tough case to senators asking they oppose the amendment, reminding them such a change would cost "hundreds of millions of dollars," and long delays since the 300 million census forms would need to be reprinted and reshipped.
"It is too late to shift gears at this point in the process," Locke wrote in a memo obtained by TPMDC.
Locke added the "exact wording of every question" already was given to Congress in 2008.
"A change will require using untested content in the actual census, which may affect both response rates and data quality and cannot be implemented in time to deliver apportionment counts by the statutory deadline of December 31, 2010," Locke wrote.
Census Director Robert Groves has testified on the Hill that it's a discussion worth having but not now.
A Democratic source with knowledge of the West Wing told TPMDC the White House was "significantly engaged" in trying to block the amendment. It worked, because last night Democratic leadership refused to include it on the list of amendments that could be brought on the senate floor.
After the negotiations broke down last night, the Senate failed to invoke cloture on the overall appropriations bill, meaning it's not happening for awhile at least. Senate leadership aides weren't sure when it will come up again or whether the census amendment would live to see another day.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid wasn't happy, and GOP leadership aides told TPMDC the census was the major sticking point.
Others were lobbying individual offices in an attempt to stop them from supporting the amendment, which legal experts and administration officials note seems unconstitutional.
White House aides reiterated the president's desire to start substantial work on a comprehensive immigration bill this year.
Simon Rosenberg of left-leaning group NDN wrote senators a letter urging them to think hard before supporting what might appear to be an innocent amendment. (Read the letter here.)
"There has been significant push to defeat this, once Democrats showed interest in the amendment," Rosenberg told TPMDC. "The senate should go slow rather than fast on this and let a bill come to the floor."
Fox News seems to be the only media outlet paying much attention to the issue, and we clipped a segment:

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bpalmer51
October 14, 2009 4:52 PM
Like someone will say they are illegal?? Besides under census rules nothing can be used for anything other then counting people and some data. I worked the last census and nothing you collect can be used against someone. There was even debate if we could report a crime in while collecting info.
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Stiggs
October 14, 2009 6:15 PM in reply to bpalmer51
It seems a little ironic that Bachmann is screaming about the census being used to round people up and Senate republicans are trying to use the census to identify illegal aliens. Wait, just a little?
Which reminds me. What's the story with the census worker who was found dead? It's been over a month now, there must be some sort of preliminary report shedding light on possible explanations for what happened. Perhaps an investigation. Bizarre.
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CT Voter
October 14, 2009 6:28 PM in reply to Stiggs
It seems a little ironic that Bachmann is screaming about the census being used to round people up and Senate republicans are trying to use the census to identify illegal aliens.
Projection. When a Republican screams about the government doing X, rest assured there are Republicans in government who are intent on doing X.
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richard f
October 14, 2009 5:10 PM
I agree that it shouldn't be asked but what is the argument that including the question is unconstitutional? I don't understand how that can be.
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GEMINI
October 14, 2009 5:19 PM in reply to richard f
Off the top of my head: 5th amendment.
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Kuyleh
October 14, 2009 5:57 PM in reply to GEMINI
The Constitution doesn't apply to non-citizens, last time I checked. They don't have a 5th Amendment.
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mans_best_friend
October 14, 2009 6:03 PM in reply to Kuyleh
Check again.
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davemuckey
October 14, 2009 9:07 PM in reply to Kuyleh
So wrong! They even have Second Amendment rights. I'd sleep under the bed if I were you.
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Matt Jones
October 14, 2009 5:20 PM in reply to richard f
Not a constitutional scholar by any means, but I'd presume that it runs into 5th Amendment issues. Given that it's illegal (AFAIK) to refuse to answer a census question, and that the immigration question is essentially asking, "Have you committed a federal crime?"
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Metzengerstein
October 14, 2009 6:29 PM in reply to Matt Jones
I'm not a CS either, but I think you can ask potentially self-incriminating questions -- you just can't compel someone to answer, and you need to make sure they know and understand that they have the right not to answer. So it would depend on what is meant by "question" and how it is asked. If it was, "Are you an illegal immigrant? [box]YES [box]NO and you are compelled to fill it out, then it would be unconstitutional. But if it were some kind of multiple-choice thing with "citizen," "legal resident," and one or two other vague options, with some kind of "prefer not to answer" choice, then I don't see how it would violate the 5th amendment.
Of course, the statistical results of the latter method would be pretty meaningless and you could make of them pretty much whatever you wanted to claim. Which the rightwingers would. They don't care much about actually collecting any valid information, but about scoring symbolic cheap shots by bringing the issue up and forcing the Democrats to oppose it and provide fodder for negative campaign ads.
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mans_best_friend
October 14, 2009 6:35 PM in reply to Metzengerstein
Sure. But why stop there:
Illegal Alien
Muslim Terrorist
Nazi
Communist
(check all that apply)
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twirling fartknocker
October 14, 2009 5:34 PM
They just want to destroy the census like they do every other collective good that government offers, in this case not the Department of Education or Medicare but democratic representation across this nation.
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Brittanicus
October 14, 2009 5:55 PM
Soon America is going to be confronted with another out-of-control AMNESTY for the 20 to 30 million illegal aliens already here. This is not taking into account the millions who will follow on, once the word gets out through Central and South America and the rest of the world. Only the armed National Guard on our lax border will be able to stop the incursion of the destitute, the sick, drug dealers, slavers, foreign terrorists and a multitude other entering this country illegally. The church, unions, the Communist ACLU, US Chamber of Commerce, Council of Foreign Relations and radical, International groups all have their agendas. These Anti-sovereignty organizations must embrace there corrupted puppet politicians, that ostensibly wants to make this cataclysm come true?
The driving force now behind this contradiction to his oath of Allegiance to American people is Rep.Luis Gutierrez's of Illinois, whose immigration enforcement since being in office is a (F-) grading according to NUMBERSUSA. The American Workers—MUST-- condemn this Immigration reform action by complaining to their indifferent Liberal Democrats and some Republicans at 202-224-3121. Don't let the aides reject you offhand as you want your representative to know? Currently 15 million US workers with the most sitting at home, sending out references, walking the streets and looking for work. Then this joker Luis Gutierrez is pushing for a second Amnesty? What are these politicians thinking, or do they think at all? My hope the taxpayers show him the door—ALL OF THEM--when he/she wants to be re-elected.
Gutierrez is just one of many who have blemished their own records of their loyalty to the American people? I just know that the last AMNESTY was an absolute failure, owing to the fraud that transpired. I think the majority of the US population knows that the majority of our politicians in every administration had no true intentions of ever securing the border, or enforcing any immigration law. This has been proven over and over again, with Senators like Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, Diane Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, Janet Napolitano that have all genuflected to the demands of businesses big and small. It seems for decades that it’s been mandatory that we must support the world’s poor? The evidence has irrefutable shown that their disregard for US labor in Obama's stimulus bill, the potential health care reform and whatever deviant law, they place in the Senate and House to support the illegal immigrants and families once they break into America? WE welcome a millions or more legal immigrants each year? Even police departments are reprimanded as Arizona Sheriff Joe Araipo, who is carry out duties, our government seems to cold-shoulder.
INSTEAD OF JUST A CIVIL INFRACTION, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTION SHOULD BE PENALISED AS A FELONY? THAT'S WHY THEY KEEP ON COMING? We should demand of those who represent us that E-Verify should be implemented immediately as mandatory, with no exemptions. Everybody in the workplace Must be verified. No more voluntary E-Verify? Every police department should be trained to apprehend and question any individual they see fit to check? No more of this Liberal Socialist political correctness garbage on racial profiling? We should have a federal force to audit I-9's, with the defiant ones going to prison. ICE should have larger funding with more interior and border agents, to sweep down on illegal business activities. Identify for yourself those politicians who are involved in corruption at JUDICIAL WATCH site. Our nation is silently being dismantled by the globalists and those who wave the banner for them.
Small states will miss out big time on federal dollars in the 2010 Census, while mass illegal immigrant states will gain more seats in Congress and too much power and influence in general elections? California specifically, because of the handicapped zombie Liberal Democrats In Sacramento, who should be thrown out of office into a garbage dump, owing to the billions they used underwriting the illegal alien population. They caused the financial crisis in the once-Golden state, by ignoring the millions of illegal aliens, gang bangers bleeding San Fran and Los Angeles dry of revenue. Of course ICE could check the immigration status of those who are counted, even though it's supposedly against US law? Or is counting 20 million plus (?) non-legal residence against the US Constitution? But then these politicians do not recognize what is illegal from illegal anymore?
Don't let sympathy cloud your mind to our own countries deterioration, the infrastructure and uncorrectable overpopulation. Each year our State and federal taxes go ever higher, to pay for the illegal immigrants, their emergency care, education, their extended circle of relatives that enter under family reunification. THE TAXPAYER HAS BECOME THE BREADWINNERS ILLEGAL ALIENS IN THIS COUNTRY AND THE WORLD. IT MUST STOP!
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Jaycal
October 14, 2009 6:04 PM in reply to Brittanicus
Please turn away the census taker when they come to your home and never buy another piece of fruit or vegetables, otherwise you're just contributing to your own problem.
Wingnut.
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hinterlandharry
October 14, 2009 6:15 PM in reply to Brittanicus
Gosh, Why don't you tell us what you really think?
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tamiasmin
October 14, 2009 6:20 PM in reply to Brittanicus
As a general rule, length of post is inversely proportional to the sense it contains. Yours is not an exception.
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CT Voter
October 14, 2009 6:31 PM in reply to tamiasmin
I'd add that the number of times said post is posted is also inversely proportional to the amount of sense in it.
And again, no exception here.
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mans_best_friend
October 14, 2009 6:36 PM in reply to tamiasmin
You didn't actually waste the time to read it, did you?
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tamiasmin
October 14, 2009 8:08 PM in reply to mans_best_friend
Don't dismiss Nonsense so lightly. It is, with Chaos and Old Night, the third triumvir.
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Stiggs
October 14, 2009 6:23 PM in reply to Brittanicus
Yawn.
If we didn't want impoverished peasants flowing over our southern border in droves, perhaps we shouldn't have enacted trade agreements and farming subsidies designed specifically to drive Mexican farmers off of their land and into the cities / over the borders to provide cheap labor for American businesses and cheap merchandise for American consumers. The way to fix that now isn't to ask people if they are breaking the law as part of the census but to change the policies that created the problem in the first place. Either that or make things so crappy here that immigrants want to go home. Bush was rocking the second strategy.
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Powkat
October 14, 2009 6:45 PM in reply to Stiggs
Never confuse a wingut with facts. It causes them to foam at the mouth, and that's not something one wants to see.
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napalmgod
October 20, 2009 8:44 PM in reply to Brittanicus
You VILL provide your PAPERS on DEMAND of the proper AUTHORITIES!
The Department of Motherland Security shall provide you with PAPERS for this very PURPOSE!
It's amazing to me that the party of individual rights is so willing to compromise core principles to accomplish their goals. This post is an excellent example: The best way to cut illegal immigrants would be to give everybody a federal-issued ID and require that the validity of that card be established at the start of employment or at the interview (to save time). However, if that were to come to pass, it would be used for other things, such as tracking gun sales.
Seriously. Play it this way: "The Obama Administration should build a giant database of who works at what company, along with their home addresses and phone numbers, for EVERY SINGLE JOB in the USA! God bless our government!"
If you actually went to the degree that Brittanicus is demanding, it would also include credit requests, insurance details and all the healthcare requests of the monitoree.
How long until some dumbass redneck goes hunting? Can you imagine Glenn Beck? He would have a stroke on national television.
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runfastandwin
October 14, 2009 6:37 PM
I live in LA, and as near as I can tell, this economy has not only stopped the flow of illegals, but has actually reversed it (it's anecdotal since I can only speculate from what I see every day). At any rate the number of people hanging around the local Home Depot looking for work is about half or less of what it was in 2006.
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Brittanicus
October 15, 2009 6:11 PM
E-Verify ought to be on the national agenda to countermand any illegal alien infiltration into the working environment. Whatever needs to be done should take priority to eliminate the unauthorized labor in our 15 million jobless nation. More funding, more modifications until the illegal immigrant fraudulent use of documentation become a thing of the past? Using whatever expertise in programming that is available; to make its operation is triumphant? Databases including State-Federal criminal, FBI, Social Security Administration, Homeland Security Agency, and any other purposeful tool.. Ultimately the final version would contribute photo verification, national ID system with biometric data which has been recommended by the Brooking's Institute and Duke University MIT. Then supposedly small employers who don't operate computers should have common access in Post Offices or other approachable government building to identify the workers they are hiring.
There should be no tolerance for not installing a nationwide mandatory system of worker identification. My suggestion is that--ALL-I-9's, ID’s should be copied and duplicates sent to a Homeland Security Clearing House? Creating such an office would be a simple affair, if our state and federal government would be more constructive to the working American male and female. If our government is truthful in securing our borders, and introducing new immigration enforcement tools, then E-Verify will become the final deterrent. Not to be destabilized by Sen. Harry Reid and his administration. I have made a point of speaking to a few business human resources departments, and found most are enthusiastic about the use of Verify. Only 1 of the 6 companies that I investigated determined some false negatives" and "false positives. But they always have a backup system of contacting the Social Security agency nearest to them, until the irregularities are resolved.
All that remains is citizens and legal residents to stop the Obama people from throwing a wrench in the cogs and stopping any technological advancement with E-Verify. E-Verify can be used on a universal level in checking bogus driver’s license applications, auto insurance, home purchase, health care and other personal identifying data. It would certainly alleviate the kidnapping of social service programs by the 20 to 30 illegal immigrants in America. It would displace foreign nationals so down-trodden legal single mums with children, homeless vets, senior citizens and even students could get employment. It all depends on all of us to contact our Representative in Washington at 202-224-3121. Tell them you don't want half measures but full permanent implementation? NO MORE DRAGGING THEIR FEET? Tell them you will remember them on next Election Day? YOU ALSO WANT AN END TO ANOTHER AMNESTY.
Don't let them distract you, but repeat your demands without faltering and offering audience to open border jerks. Invest a little time and check what your politicians are doing to our immigration enforcement safeguard at NUMBERSUSA? Read about the consequences of future OVERPOPULATION at WEBCAPS and our collapsing infrastructure, which has been ignored for decades nationwide. Last read factual information at JUDICIAL WATCH that exposes the lawmakers, which are running the country for themselves, friends and business associates. IT’S ALL FREE. Read that some of the White House Czars are not true Democrats, but are shadowed by their past Liberal Marxist backgrounds.
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