Check in here for continuous updates until the vote, which may not come until the afternoon.
2:52 p.m.: The final vote, as expected once Snowe announced her intent, was 14-9. All five congressional committees have now reported out their health care reform bills.
2:49 p.m.: Here comes the vote.
2:42 p.m.: "I do think a public option is necessary," Rockefeller says, because, "the insurance industry does not know how to stop itself."
2:41 p.m.: Rockefeller says, "I'm going to vote for this bill coming out of Finance...because I think that, in spite of a lot of the problems that I have with it, I think that the dialogue is now for real."
2:40 p.m.: Rockefeller's last chance to rock the boat forthcoming.
2:32 p.m.: How much did outside forces (President Obama, the AHIP/PwC report) have on Snowe's vote? Impossible to know, but it's worth pointing out that Snowe met with Obama last week. And, while we're on Obama, he's meeting with Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN) as I type....
2:24 p.m.: We're nearing a vote...
2:05 p.m.: Deep thought--I don't believe Olympia Snowe hadn't decided how to vote before the committee. Just a hunch.
2:04 p.m.: Bill Nelson (who's a "yes," by the way) is reading a bunch of insurance company horror stories sent his way. These stories never cease to amaze me.
1:57 p.m.: Snowe's announcement that she'll vote for the bill today spread a ripple of excited whispers across the silent hearing room. You can see video of that moment here.
1:56 p.m.: Wyden's a yes today. He will "vote to move this legislation forward."
1:50 p.m.: Did you know that Ron Wyden supports consumer choice in the insurance market? Well, he does.
1:48 p.m.: Schumer said, "this is not a perfect bill. it need further changes on the floor and in conference."
1:44 p.m.: Enter Chuck Schumer--his support today is locked in, though he certainly believes the bill could be significantly improved. This bill "does more than any of the other four bills" to control costs, he says. But, he adds, "to cut costs, we must have a public option," in the final bill. Strong words.
1:40 p.m.: My colleague Christina noted yesterday that Republicans will likely end up defending the PwC report, but that they'll do so cautiously in order to avoid the appearance of defending the insurance industry. Well, I'm not sure how well they're succeeding so far, but it's very clear that they're embracing the findings of the analysis, without mentioning that it was commissioned and designed by America's Health Insurance Plans.
1:33 p.m.: MoveOn isn't even waiting for a vote. Now that it's clear that the committee will approve this bill, it's announcing a new week-long national cable ad buy.
1:29 p.m.: Sens. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) and Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) just entered the room. Both had been absent pretty much the entire hearing.
1:21 p.m.: Just a note. He's not a member of the committee. But Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) says he doesn't support the Baucus bill in its current form.
1:17 p.m.: The below video captures what I believe will serve as the origin of a major talking point for public option supporters. John Kerry lambasting the PwC report and arguing that it serves as a powerful argument for the public option.
1:13 p.m.: Bunning's back up, but it almost doesn't matter at this point. Republicans can bray all they want, but this thing's a go.
1:05 p.m.: Aaaaand now the panel sings happy birthday to Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-WA). The Senate can be so Senate-y sometimes.
12:59 p.m.: Baucus thanks Snowe for he "thoughtful statement." "It will be well remembered," he says. Bipartisanship!
12:58 p.m.: Snowe notes, "The majority has the votes. It has the votes in the House, it has the votes in the Senate." Good to know!
12:56 p.m.: Snowe says she will vote for the bill on the committee as a way of saying that the process should move forward, but will be vigilant as its merged with the HELP bill. "My vote today does not forecast what my vote will be tomorrow."
12:53 p.m.: "At the same time, I have shared my fellow Republicans' concerns" about government involvement. Reiterates her opposition to the public option .
12:51 p.m.: Snowe does not support "arbitrary deadlines." But she notes, "the mark before us produces some "landmark, bipartisan reforms." She's waxing very positive about the bill at the time being.
12:49 p.m.: Snowe's back up. Let's listen closely. "We should also contemplate the decades of inaction that have brought us to this crossroads."
12:47 p.m.: It's interesting that Conrad's taking a whack at the "robust" public option. A robust public option, he says, "is a non-starter for me." That's not unexpected--he opposed it strongly during the mark up--but right now he's mum on the "level playing field" option, which he also voted against, and this is all a far cry from his old position that the public option question was "moot" because it can't get 60 votes. Have things changed?
12:43 p.m.: Conrad speaks of "the effect of public option when it is tied to Medicare levels of reimbursement."
My state has the second lowest level of medicare reimbursement...That has very serious consequences for not only my states but other low reimbursement states. I've had continuing dialogue with people in my home state...I would ask them to consider that Medicare levels of reimbursement [have been this way] for years.
OK, well, granting that premise for the time being, what about a public option with negotiated rates, though?
12:40 p.m.: Hatch criticizes the majority for "ramming this through," when, with enough time, the CBO could provide an analysis of the impact the bill would have on premiums.
12:37 p.m.: Rock, interrupted: "Despite the improvements made...Mr. Chairman, my time is up." Finish the sentence, Mr. Senator!
12:34 p.m.: Rockefeller says that this bill "still fall short of what people need and expect from us." Hmmm.... He says he's splitting his closing statement into two parts. Perhaps all the good stuff will come later. But for now he's lauding the HELP Committee bill by contrast to the package he's about to vote on....
12:23 p.m.: Lincoln lays out a warning. "My support here does not [ensure] my support for the final product," she says. If the final bill doesn't control costs, protect seniors, etc., she reserves the right to vote against it.
12:20 p.m. No lunch break till vote?! #fml #woeisme
12:19 p.m.: Lincoln says that the bill achieves her "principle" goal of lowering costs. "This legislaiton contains provisions that I've worked on for many years with my colleagues...there is no doubt in my mind that the cost of doing nothing is simply too high.
12:14 p.m.: I was wrong. Here comes Blanche Lincoln.
12:10 p.m.: Sen. Tom Carper (D-DE), the last Democrat during this first round of statements and questions, hails the bill as the only proposal on Capitol Hill that contains costs. Says he has "no interest" in voting for a bill that isn't successful on that score.
12:05 p.m.: Menendez says he now thinks this is a fair bill for consumers and families, but complains that it still does not contain a public option. He also blasts the PWC/AHIP report as an 11th hour hit job. The Democrats are really taking aim at this today.
11:59 a.m.: Elmendorf makes the key point that a community rated health care system will generally make healthy people pay higher premiums than they did pre-reform, and sick people pay lower premiums.
11:57 a.m.: Another interesting note: Blanche Lincoln just stepped away from the dais. But she hasn't said anything at all yet. Orchestrated reticence?
11:55 a.m.: Just a note about the generally suspicious nature about the health care industry complaining that legislation might make its product a). mandatory, and b). more expensive. If it were true, it would mean huge profits for them. That's not something that you'd expect from a profit-driven enterprise--and yet one more data point showing that the PWC report was very wrong.
11:49 a.m.: Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL) defends the bill noting that, for all the assaults on taxes, etc., there will be a large hidden tax on the American people if health care reform doesn't pass. This comes in response to an exchange between Sen. Mike Enzi (R-WY) and the panel of witnesses about the potential impact of the excise tax on high end insurance. Basically, Republicans, like the good folks at PWC and AHIP, want to argue that the incidence of the excise tax will be such that people will end up paying more on average for insurance after the bill is enacted--not less.
11:38 a.m.: Ron Wyden has the floor now, making the point, as he does so often, that the key to reform is increased consumer competition, and this bill doesn't do enough on that score. He's unhappy with many aspects of the bill and with the process itself, from which he was mostly shut out. Let's listen closely.
11:29 a.m.: Sen. John Ensign (R-NV) is in the midst a general rage against the bill. I wonder whether, when he's forced to buy insurance through his state exchange, his parents will pick up the tab.
11:24 a.m.: Mike Crapo opposes the bill on the ground that it spends money that's raised from increased taxes. Hmmm...
11:12 a.m.: An hour in. Not to make too much of this, but it's worth pointing out that the minority is out in force. Every Republican on the committee appears to be present and accounted for. At the same time, the only Democrats sitting in right now are Baucus, Rockefeller, Lincoln, Wyden, Bill Nelson, and Menendez.
11:11 a.m.: Sen. Jim Bunning (R-KY) criticizes the "stunning lack of transparency" in the drafting of the bill.
11:06 a.m.: Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) lowers the boom on health insurers and the fraudulent report they released yesterday, attacking the Finance bill "The insurance industry should be ashamed of [the PricewaterhouseCooper] report... it's frankly a powerful argument for...a public plan."
11:03 a.m.: Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) reprises his role as Baucus' chief antagonist. Currently the two are squabbling over whether exemption levels for the mandates will be indexed to inflation.
10:55 a.m.: Interrupting for a moment, it looks like PricewaterhouseCooper has admitted that the controversial report they released yesterday is accurate inasmuch as it analyzed only those provisions that would have the effect of increasing health insurance costs, without factoring in the countervailing provisions that would decrease those costs. It's a bit like noting that the Red Sox scored six runs last night, without noting that the Angels scored seven, knocking the Sox out of the post-season.
10:49 a.m.: Sen. Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) asks Elmendorf about the cost-bending impact of the excise tax on high-end health care plans. Elmendorf notes that the CBO has not yet determined what the net impact of the bill will be on national health expenditures, though the excise tax will surely push it downward.
10:44 a.m.: OK, here comes Olympia Snowe--she opens by questioning Elmendorf about the risk that when the bill is converted to legislative language, the cost analysis could change, and the bill could be scored to cost more, or save less, or both. Elmendorf says, basically, that the onus is on legislators to make sure that the legislative language matches the plain-language, conceptual draft.
10:40 a.m.: Conrad reassures us that the bill does not create death panels. PHEW!
10:37 a.m.: Quoth Hatch, "It is interesting to note that though these tax increases and Medicare cuts will start as early as next year," all the other goodies will have to wait until about 2013.
10:30 a.m.: Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) takes the mic. "The bills that we have spent hundreds of hours working on will not be the bill we discuss on the floor." Warns that the real bill will be written in "the dark corners" of the Capitol. I assume the lighting in the Majority Leader's office will in fact be ample.
10:28 a.m.: In a back and forth with CBO chief Doug Elmendorf, Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) is giving insurance companies yet another whoopin'--this time for their failure to contain costs, and passing costs on to consumers.
10:23 a.m.: Grassley grouses "I do blame people outside of the committee for [this] process not working."
10:20 a.m.: Grassley cautions against "further leftward movement" when the Finance bill is merged with competing legislation out of the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee.
10:19 a.m.: Grassley's up now. Starts by saying "I wish I felt better about the substance of the bill."
10:17 a.m.: Baucus boasts, "our plan would require members of Congress to buy health insurance from the same state-based exchanges" as their constituents. #emptygesture.
10:15 a.m.: Baucus says his bill "passes" the CBO test--plumps for it by noting that it would reduce the deficit in the near and long term.
10:14 a.m.: Baucus says, "It has been more than 22 years since the Finance Committee met for eight days" on a single bill.
10:12 a.m.: OK here we go. Chairman Max Baucus (D-MT) launches into his opening statement by quoting Ben Franklin. (No word on whether Franklin supports co-ops or triggers or a robust public option.)
10:10 a.m.: In a scrum with reporters a moment ago, Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) said she still has not decided how she'll vote today.

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randomname
October 13, 2009 10:33 AM
Orin Hatch is a weasle
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UTMark
October 13, 2009 11:05 AM in reply to randomname
yeah, but weasels are actually kind of cute. Hatch is obnoxious.
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lousgirl84
October 13, 2009 3:30 PM in reply to UTMark
You took the words out of my mouth. Comparing the two diminishes weasel
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Doc Magnus
October 13, 2009 11:20 AM in reply to randomname
The Weasel lobby is preparing a note of objection to this comparison.
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monet768
October 13, 2009 12:46 PM in reply to randomname
what member of the grande ole ugly party is not a weasle?
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Mark
October 13, 2009 10:37 AM
Was this vote previously planned for today? Why would they vote on it the day after an industry report came out slamming it?
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randomname
October 13, 2009 10:49 AM
Yes, it was planned for today. Hence the report coming out yesterday.
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Walter Mitty
October 13, 2009 10:50 AM
Sounds like Snowe will vote for it. Crud.
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Elizabeth2
October 13, 2009 12:08 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
Yeah -- I'd started hoping she would vote 'no' also, just to make it clear that the Republicans were ALL opposed and essentially out of the picture. Saw a rumor somewhere that the leadership was threatening to strip her of (or prevent her getting) an important chairmanship. Boy - do *they* know how to enforce salutes and lock-step! (And I'm glad the Dems don't, for all that it makes life much harder -- I don't want to belong to a party that is *that* organized.)
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ENelson
October 13, 2009 10:52 AM
How about getting some quotes from Bill Frist, Bob Dole and Chuck Hagel, on how today is the day when the Republican party will show whether it is just interested in its own power, and can't see past their emotions, or is for the American people. America can not afford healthcare costing us 16% of GDP. This is the first step towards being fiscally conscious. The Chinese are watching.
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AdAbsurdum
October 13, 2009 11:00 AM
If it's a dark liberal corner, the sort which Republicans fear approaching, then all the better.
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WineDarkSea
October 13, 2009 11:22 AM in reply to AdAbsurdum
One would hope for that, but this is the US Senate we're talking about, so I don't like our chances.
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DownriverDem
October 13, 2009 11:00 AM
How about just doing it for the American people? I am so sick and tired of the Republicans who will do nothing to help the majority of American people. They are supported by the folks in their districts.
Come on Dems, grow a pair. You will be seen as heroes and go down in history for doing the right thing. The Repubs will look like the hateful, selfish, greedy thugs that they are.
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Seafarer
October 13, 2009 11:02 AM
Is it me, or are the folks like Kyl now sounding a bit desperate and scattershot to find something--anything--to latch onto for a reason to oppose?
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randomname
October 13, 2009 11:05 AM in reply to Seafarer
It is not you
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baltimore
October 13, 2009 11:04 AM
what happened to that shumer bill that would the red states to opt out of the public option? a good compromise that would soon show the rednecks that we don't need them. let them give all their money to the private insurance companies.
also this would translate into political gains, once the deprived locals realized that the rest of the country (i.e. blue states) got a much better deal. or maybe they're too stupid to realize it!
i live in europe where we all get universal state-run health care. (just as those hypocrites in congress get; socialized medicine!) nobody complains about it here, and if any politico tried to go back to private insurace, he'd soon be out of a job!
why are europeans more rational? because campaigners don't talk about jeebus or family values! people here vote their wallets and common sense.
americans are too ignorant and backward for that. and the system in usa is set up so that the small states have excessive power in the senate. let the big blue states have the state health plan, while the yokels pay up and make insurance CEOs even richer than they are now. more bonuses for them and for their pals at Waterhouse accountant bums.
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monet768
October 13, 2009 12:49 PM in reply to baltimore
The no teeth folks in the southern districts are hurting th emost and they don't even realize.
Boy education or at least common sense goes a long way.
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Seafarer
October 13, 2009 11:07 AM
Kerry is slamming Price Waterhouse and the opposition to the public option with The Truth. Go John! Why weren't you this strident during your entire election cycle for President??
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randomname
October 13, 2009 11:08 AM
John Kerry tells them what a piece of crap their report is. Did he just say "Classic"?
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Seafarer
October 13, 2009 11:18 AM
A vein just exploded on Jim Bunning's forehead, killing half the people in the chamber with his sheer fury.
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Jim H
October 13, 2009 11:31 AM in reply to Seafarer
You mean he's not asleep?
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Shrubbit
October 13, 2009 1:11 PM in reply to Jim H
He was livid. Red-faced. Shouting. What an ass.
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
October 13, 2009 2:12 PM in reply to Shrubbit
too big an ass even for the collection of walkin, talkin rectums known as the Senate Republican Caucus.
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WineDarkSea
October 13, 2009 11:20 AM
"Conrad reassures us that the bill does not create death panels. PHEW!"
What, no death panels? The SFC bill is fatally compromised!
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Jim H
October 13, 2009 11:24 AM
How long have you been a Senator, Orrin? You do realize this is how it works, right?
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Seafarer
October 13, 2009 11:28 AM in reply to Jim H
If you're not the one in control of the dark corners, they are inherently bad.
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montfam
October 13, 2009 11:44 AM in reply to Seafarer
I thought the Republicans had a map of all the dark corners. Actually, they designed the map.
They used those corners regularly from 2001-2009.
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Seafarer
October 13, 2009 11:59 AM in reply to montfam
Remember, only Right-leaning, conservative Christians love America enough to use those corners for Good.
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randomname
October 13, 2009 11:34 AM
Sen Ensign is so dumb
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JimmyBobby
October 13, 2009 3:35 PM in reply to randomname
He really is seriously dumb. And I can't understand how he still has his job, he's a proven crook in office!
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Jim H
October 13, 2009 11:40 AM
Maybe Ensign will sign on if the government plans are extended to cover your mistress (and her family).
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Walter Mitty
October 13, 2009 11:50 AM
There is a second round of statements/questions correct? So the vote won't be for hours yet?
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Seafarer
October 13, 2009 11:58 AM
What the hell is John Corwyn talking about?
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monet768
October 13, 2009 12:45 PM in reply to Seafarer
The grande ole racist party of heck no is a waste of time.......where are the teabaggers?....soaking their teeth
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kalimuzo
October 13, 2009 12:10 PM
Senator Nelson seemed pissed at the insurance companies. Maybe this stupid report might lead to a public option
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MJAN
October 13, 2009 12:32 PM
Is anyone else surprised that it looks like Lincoln will actually vote for this?
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Bearlegdairy
October 13, 2009 12:47 PM
Senator Conrad: "Higher population states have a disproportionate amount of representation in the house."
No, idiot, larger states have a PROPORTIONATE representation which is why the larger states have more representatives. The senate can be so irritating sometimes.
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pv2k
October 13, 2009 12:53 PM
My understanding is the figures Conrad was tossing out is gross dollars and not per capita. That means ND gets half as much because they have half the population.
Conrad is taking this course to pretend he cares about his ND constituents. I hope they dump him.
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kalimuzo
October 13, 2009 1:04 PM
Snowe is a yes vote. I think this thing is almost done.
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JimmyBobby
October 13, 2009 1:05 PM
A Republican with both brains and balls...and she's a woman. What a surprise...not!
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Cool Blue Reason
October 13, 2009 1:15 PM
Snowe is a trojan horse in this context. She's voting yes in committee just to provide Harry Reid with cover when he "acts to preserve the bipartisan character of the Senate bill" (i.e. guts the public option with a trigger or removes it entirely).
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Seafarer
October 13, 2009 1:19 PM in reply to Cool Blue Reason
Could backfire dramatically if so, since they can pass a public option without 60 votes, if they let it out of committee.
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Steve Gilpatrick
October 13, 2009 1:17 PM
As a Maine native I was hoping that she would grow a couple and respect her constituency. Maine is a very liberal place. Practical but liberal. 'Bout
time.
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Walter Mitty
October 13, 2009 1:18 PM
Snowe's vote is bad news. Now the Dems need to keep it when they mold the bills together. This means no public option boys and girls.
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 1:21 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
Bullshit
It means we get a bill to the Floor without having to put a reconciliation pasteurized processed swiss cheese product through reconciliation
It means we do not need Joe Lieberman
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Tanjaoui
October 13, 2009 3:29 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
Don't understand that; is that some sort of procedural rule? Please explain.
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lousgirl84
October 13, 2009 3:35 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
TROLL ALERT!!!!
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Tanjaoui
October 13, 2009 11:31 PM in reply to lousgirl84
It means we get a bill to the Floor without having to put a reconciliation pasteurized processed swiss cheese product through reconciliation
- I don't understand why we need her vote to vote something with a strong public option. I understood all you need is a majority vote. It's an honest question.
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 1:19 PM
HOORAY!
They threatened to take her committees away and she told them where to stick it.
Now we don't need Joe Lieberman for cloture?
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JEP07
October 13, 2009 1:19 PM
EXCELLENT liveblogging, Brian...
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davcbr
October 13, 2009 1:22 PM
"public option question was "moot" because it can't get 60 votes."
Mostly just saying that he is vote #60. Or at least thinks he is.
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 1:27 PM in reply to davcbr
Doesn't need 60 votes
Needs 51
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 1:24 PM
The Hill:
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 1:26 PM
The knees are jerking around here again
How else to explain the bilge that Snowe's vote AGAINST the bill would have been a boon for the bill
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TheraP
October 13, 2009 1:28 PM in reply to johnmccsf
Bipartisan Snowe job!
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 1:31 PM in reply to TheraP
Knee jerk job
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 1:32 PM
Meanwhile back at Hartford HQ
Lieberman endorses the PWC AHIP "study"!
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mike from Arlington
October 13, 2009 1:37 PM
In regards to the Olympia Snowe's decision....
I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of conservative voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something magnificent has happened.
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WineDarkSea
October 13, 2009 2:27 PM in reply to mike from Arlington
I fear something magnificent has happened.
Ya know, me too!!!
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Indie Pro
October 13, 2009 1:40 PM
yawn
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 1:45 PM
Let's get to a vote and close down Circus Baucus once and for all
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JohnW1141
October 13, 2009 1:49 PM
I think Kurt Conrad is feeling some pro public option political pressure from back home
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 1:53 PM
Snowe will probably bring Collins too at least in voting for cloture
The public option comes in on a Floor vote
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
October 13, 2009 2:17 PM in reply to johnmccsf
We'll see.
If they get any kind of a public option into the final bill, whether triggered or any of the other watered down versions, it makes it a hell of a lot more likely we'll get a decent one into the conference bill.
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 2:20 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
That's the program - get as strong a bill out of the Senate as is possible.
Even Ben Nelson and Evan Bayh support a "state" public option and Schumer's now begun to roar
Ezra Klein observes
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
October 13, 2009 2:34 PM in reply to johnmccsf
On the other hand,
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
October 13, 2009 2:39 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
I have no earthly idea why the hell that comment just up and submitted itself before I was done with it.
Anyway, on the other hand, if Lieberman kills this thing, I really do think I'm going to lose it. Along with pretty much the entire party, I'm guessing.
I can easily see him, Ben Nelson, Conrad, Lincoln and Landrieu banding together to cover each others' asses on a vote against cloture, but, arrogant, self-rightous narcissisic prick that he is, he's the only one I can see doing it alone.
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 2:49 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
I have ZERO faith in Lieberman save that he'll do what's best for Lieberman...and it is conceivable that, as the momentum builds over the next couple weeks, he'll vote for cloture and against final passage.
Voting yes before no isn't a difficult vote
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
October 13, 2009 3:18 PM in reply to johnmccsf
The problem with relying on Lieberman's self-interest to make him do the right thing is that his unbounded narcissism, combined with the lack of consquences for his seemingly endless series of betrayals, means that he invariably equates "my self-interest" with "doing whatever the hell I want."
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Rich in NJ
October 13, 2009 2:02 PM
I am opposed in principle to Kent Conrad remaining a Democrat.
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synchronicity
October 13, 2009 2:21 PM in reply to Rich in NJ
My sentiments as well.
Congress has highly overestimated our willingness to accept a mandate without a 'true' public option that cuts costs and is available to 'all' Americans.
If they don't give us a 'true' public option
(no gimmicks, no co-ops, no opt-outs, no tricks, no 'triggers', no Cantwell's state vs state game, etc.)
they know where they can shove their mandate!
And trying to keep Snowe on board is just going to costs us quality... forget her!
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 2:25 PM in reply to synchronicity
Snowe's vote gets the bill to the Floor.
Full stop
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synchronicity
October 13, 2009 2:35 PM in reply to johnmccsf
Um, no. It was going to the floor anyway... stop. Stop! The vote is what 13 to 10... didn't 'need' her.
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Dorn76
October 13, 2009 3:40 PM in reply to synchronicity
I think she's important because her vote puts the GOP in a box. Now they basically need to disown her to keep up the obstructionism on HCR.
The battle is in the perception of this thing in the middle. Snowe's support helps win that battle.
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synchronicity
October 13, 2009 7:46 PM in reply to Dorn76
Well I think if we get attached to having Snowe on board we compromise our health insurance care/reform and it's not worth it, period.
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 2:27 PM
If only we had Democrats with Snowe's spine
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 2:31 PM
Greg Sargent:
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MollyNYC
October 13, 2009 2:37 PM
From the point-of-view of sheer offensiveness, it's one thing to be in Washington and vote a few billion of taxpayers' dollars to, say, Blackwater. It's quite another to force a taxpayer to personally send hard-earned dollars every month to a firm that the he or she views as a collection of grafting, palm-greasing scumbags who will do nothing for the money but pocket it.
Do these elected officials understand that if they skip the public option, at some point they're going to have to deal with constituents who view them essentially as abettors of extortion?
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
October 13, 2009 3:02 PM in reply to MollyNYC
You know, I appreciate your passion, but most people who have health insurance a don't really feel that way about their particular health insurer. They may feel that way about the industry as a whole, but not about their own insurer. The reason, of course, is that most people have never been sick enough to trigger the scummy behavior and don't want to consider the possibility it could happen to them, but that's the feeling nonetheless.
It's the same phenomonon that causes people to like their own Congressman even though they hate Congress as an institution. They don't want to vote their rascal out, they just want everyone else to vote their rascals out.
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Tanjaoui
October 13, 2009 4:29 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
Very good points. So in 'selling' the public option, its proponents should be as specific as possible. What is the public option going to look like and how much will it cost a family of 4?
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MollyNYC
October 13, 2009 10:01 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
TCFKA NCSteve: That may be true for people who've already got some form of health insurance.
But imagine telling someone who doesn't currently have insurance that they're now obliged to send thousands of dollars a year to Blue Cross or Cigna.
From where I stand, it's like being told I have a choice between being shaken down by the Gambino family, the Genovese family or the Scarfo family--and that my congressman is not only corrupt enough to have arranged it, but also dumb enough (and thinks I'm dumb enough) that he can pass it off as some sort of reform.
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 2:59 PM
Good work Brian
The Rockefeller vote must have been devastating
Soldier on
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BLM
October 13, 2009 3:02 PM
BTW, I would like to add that this was excellent live blogging. Kudos! Lots of detail, as well as a great sense of the back and forth and the overall drama of the event. Well done.
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Tanjaoui
October 14, 2009 12:35 AM in reply to BLM
Here here. And so much less tedious and time consuming than listening to these blowhards drone on and on. A very nice way to get breaking news. Thanks!
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ttarleton
October 13, 2009 3:02 PM
Jeezis - I'm SO GLAD that's over with!!! It really seems like we've been waiting YEARS for this committee to get a bill out! Now we can get on with the real work of merging bills and proceeding to floor votes in the House and Senate.
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bravegoat
October 13, 2009 3:11 PM
yawn x 2
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 3:17 PM in reply to bravegoat
You really should have a doctor look at those tonsils
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 3:16 PM
OFA's out with an email
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johnmccsf
October 13, 2009 3:25 PM
The Washington Post
You betcha!
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theone718
October 13, 2009 5:25 PM in reply to johnmccsf
When it comes to at least politics, that is ONE HELL of a story.
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RectoNoVerso
October 13, 2009 3:34 PM
They could do much better than that if they used the right arguments to convince "free marketeers".
A Free-Market Case for the Public Option
http://rectonoverso.wordpress.com/2009/10/13/a-free-market-case-for-the-public-option/
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Tanjaoui
October 13, 2009 4:03 PM in reply to RectoNoVerso
Makes way to much sense for a Senator to suggest. But it is very convincing. Some Senator should simply read it out on the floor.
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theone718
October 13, 2009 5:26 PM in reply to Tanjaoui
You wouldn't know it but Susan Collins has voted with Dems more than Olympia Snowe has by a small margin.
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Steve Gilpatrick
October 13, 2009 5:20 PM
as a maine native...don't expect collins with snowe. different districts of a big state. collins from up north, cristianity, potatoes,space. the Wyoming of new england. ever listen to collins speak? not quite english.
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bill
October 13, 2009 6:08 PM
The 'problems' sited by the health insurance industry are the direct result of leaving the private sector health insurers in the mix. The private sector approach is obsolete, wasteful and counter-productive. Private sector health insurers are in the business of making money by selling and administering insurance products, not by delivering health care. Private sector health insurance companies divert resources from health care to profits and paper shuffling. Health care dollars are precious and need to be used to deliver health care. Private sector health insurance providers are superfluous. The problems sited by the health insurance industry are best solved by dissolving the private sector health insurance industry. Every citizen knows this; apparently, elected officials are beginning to acknowledge it and act accordingly. Thank the Lord.
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Tanjaoui
October 13, 2009 11:45 PM in reply to bill
Not so sure about that. I'm from Massachusetts, and I'm not even sure single payer could pass there. People could be convinced if there were enough politicians with enough spine to sell it, but there simply aren't. Campaign finance reform with serious teeth would help with that sort of thing. But as long as politicians get money from corporations to win elections, we're in this vicious cycle. And from what I've read on this site (I think it was), the Supreme Court is getting ready to rule corporations have the same the moral and legal rights as individuals, making it even harder to keep them out of the elections business.
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rbe1
October 14, 2009 4:54 AM
For me the reliance on Snowe in any form is foolish. No one out here in the real world is fooled into thinking that there is anything bipartisan going on with this reform effort. Nothing good is likely to come from her support. If a good reform bill does pass, one with a strong public option, it won't matter what Olympia Snowe has done. If you're looking for heroines, I'd put my faith in Nancy Pelosi, who cares more about the middle and lower economic classes, and has more balls than the entire male senate democratic caucus put together.
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