So let's give Lucy one more chance to hold the football. Just one more time. This is the last chance. Really.

I agree with Howard Dean that a trigger is a farce. But as a red state progressive, it holds out more hope for the poor and disenfranchised where I live than the Blue State Public Option (i.e., public option with an opt-out). With a trigger, progressives everywhere continue to fight for reform. Without the Blue State Public Option, blue state progressives (so-called) get theirs while leaving the rest to wither on the vine.

"Senate Centrists?" How many articles have been written on this site arguing that the polls show that a strong public option has the support of 70% of the American people? And you are still referring to these neanderthals as centrists?

They are conservatives and they are obstructionists. Either appellation would be more accurate than the one you used, Mr. Beutler.

Beutler? Beutler? Anyone? Anyone?

am i missing something? didn't the latest AHIP report clearly show the intentions of the health care industry to raise, not lower premiums after some kind of health care reform is finally signing into law? the trigger is already here!

You guys we have to reframe the debate. The question is whether Snowe and Nelson believe insurance companies can deny coverage for breast cancer treatment because someone had acne when they were seventeen? Do they believe insurance companies can deny treatment and refund premiums when a covered person makes a claim? If they do, then they will filibuster the bill.

We cannot accept that the public option signals the death knell for the moderates. There is a lot in this massive health care overhaul. If we want and insist on a public option, we also have to make sure the centrists understand that if they filibuster, they're filibustering treatment for women with breast cancer. They're filibustering a prevention of fraud. Is that really what they want to be associated with?

The right has done a good deal to make this about the public option and only about the public option. There are a great many important insurance reforms that are contained in the bills. Do you think that Snowe is going to oppose these reforms? Should she? Of course not. But if we only focus on the public option, she'll be inclined to fight back. So will Nellie.

"My expectation is that it probably doesn't have enough to get 60 votes to get off the floor if it gets on the floor."

Well shucks, Ben, which Democrats do you think will join the Republicans in opposing cloture, thwarting their party's primary domestic policy initiative of this Congress and thereby likely costing them the majority? Please do tell. We're quivering with anticipation. Gee, sure doesn't sound like you'll be one of them from the way you're talking.

Trigger or no trigger,opt-in or opt-out doesn't matter this bill will stink to high Heaven and do nothing but force people to buy for profit insurance.

Thinking about the filibuster: I would have it work more or less as follows: the first vote for cloture requires 60 votes. Then after say ten days, another vote is called with 58 votes required. Ten days later, another requiring 56 votes. If after this period, there is no cloture, after an additional ten days, cloture becomes automatic and a simple majority is required for passage.

In the meantime, the opposition has this period to convince the leadership to drop the bill or to convince the majority to vote against their own bill. Also, anyone can call for additional cloture votes during the thirty days, subject to the rule in force during that period (60, 58, 56).

And another thing: I'm so tired of having to endure hearing about Olympia Fucking Snowe. Next to jolten Joe Lieberman, she's about the biggest pain in the ass to show up in the health care debate.