White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs told reporters in his morning gaggle that Republican wins last night "demonstrate that voters" are working through "local issues that didn't involve the president."
Gibbs said the exit polling is "pretty clear people went to the polls and voted for local issues."
Asked the lessons from the race, Gibbs said that "the economy was on people's minds."
Results in NY-23 -- in which Democrat Bill Owens beat Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman 49-45 -- illustrate "anger can get you 45 percent of the vote." Gibbs also said the GOP "sought greatly to nationalize" the race there.
And next year? Gibbs said he expects Obama will play an "active role" in 2010 races.
It's the one-year anniversary of his historic 2008 victory, an occasion the Democratic National Committee's Organizing for American is marking with campaign reunions.
Obama will soon be en route to Madison, Wisconsin, to talk about education. Tonight he and First Lady Michelle Obama will host an event at the White House to celebrate classical music.

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Lalo35adm
November 4, 2009 10:40 AM
LOL, this spin is rich :-)
After Obama called Corzine his "partner", robocalled for him and put other things on hold to campaign for Corzine in person (not to mention sending Biden)...the voters said "screw that!" and voted local issues...
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Schmed- ley
November 4, 2009 10:44 AM in reply to Lalo35adm
Sign of the apocalypse: I agree with Lalo.
OMG.
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VivaAmerica!
November 4, 2009 10:47 AM in reply to Schmed- ley
It's a sign of ignoring facts.
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Schmed- ley
November 4, 2009 10:51 AM in reply to VivaAmerica!
Which facts? That Virginians and New Jerseyans have more faith in Republicans than in Democrats on the so-called "local issues"? Or that Gibbs is trying to make a silk purse out of a couple of boars' scrota?
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VivaAmerica!
November 4, 2009 11:04 AM in reply to Schmed- ley
That these Republicans did not offer anything different than what the Dems were offering. Did you not see the generic as hell ads?
That the vast majority of people who voted said the President did not influence their vote one way or the other.
That McDonnell and Christie did not openly attack the President. Why is it that the GOP is always being warned not to attack the President if the general population is so unhappy with his agenda and the results so far?
The entire country is worried about the economy and health care. To suggest that the VA and NJ races mean that the country prefers the Republican solutions is just mind boggling.
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hewhohasnoname
November 4, 2009 11:09 AM in reply to VivaAmerica!
"Why is it that the GOP is always being warned not to attack the President if the general population is so unhappy with his agenda and the results so far?"
Exactly. No one has answered that question yet. Neither one of the races were around anti-Obama or anti-Obama agenda. That's a significant point that many are conveniently overlooking in trying to spin this as a "warning" for Obama.
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Mateo123
November 4, 2009 12:38 PM in reply to hewhohasnoname
I disagree. I think that both states involved local issues with a national backdrop. Neither Christie nor McDonnell said a nice thing about Obama. This was a warning -- without question -- from those in Virginia and New Jersey: we expect results.
Obama was elected with 55% of the vote. He hasn't done enough to satisfy people and our economy continues to struggle. Many are losing their jobs and more are feeling that they will lose their jobs. Things have to change.
We need to invest -- more -- in green jobs and/or in industries where some return will be generated. With ten percent unemployment, today if the election were held, I think that Democrats would struggle to retain their majorities in the House and Senate.
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Schmed- ley
November 4, 2009 11:12 AM in reply to VivaAmerica!
At the risk of sounding repetitive: However vague McDonnell and Christie were, they were apparently detailed enough for the voters. Disparage them all you want, but the bottom line is that the Dems have got to do better. Now. Having Gibbs spin the loss of two blue governorships to the GOP as "local issues" when people everywhere see these issues as national (even you say that "the entire country is going through it") is head-in-the-sand optimism that will come back to bite Obama and the Democrats (they are inextricably linked, are they not?) in the ass next year.
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Walter Mitty
November 4, 2009 11:23 AM in reply to Schmed- ley
What was Corzine's approval ratings heading into the campaign? The vote was "Anybody But Corzine" heading into the election, however Christie was a flawed candidate, which made it closer than it should have been.
Deeds was a horrid candidate who won the primary by being the last man standing after McAuliffe and Moran took each other out. Now McDonnell would have likely beat any of the three, but it would have been closer. Virginia always elects a Governor opposite of the President.
As has been mentioned - both Christie and McDonnell didn't run on attacking Obama, however Hoffman's campaign was all about sending a message to Washington, and had all the Anti-Obama bigwigs emphatically endorsing him and what happened there? A Democrat was elected there for the first time in over a hundred years, and Hoffman bled 20% of the vote as McHugh got 65% exactly a year ago.
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Schmed- ley
November 4, 2009 11:47 AM in reply to Walter Mitty
Once again: not only Deeds and Corzine lost, but the Democratic Party also lost two big seats in blue states. Governors seats garner national attention. If Obama is the choirmaster, then he better wake up to and own up to the fact that two of his biggest tenors have just started to sing off key.
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agio
November 4, 2009 2:49 PM in reply to Schmed- ley
VA is "blue" only if your definition of "blue" means "Went for Obama in 2008." But really it's a swing state.
NJ should be pretty blue, I'll grant you, but this is hardly the first time they've elected a Republican governor.
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hewhohasnoname
November 4, 2009 11:04 AM in reply to Schmed- ley
Is it a fact that that they "had more faith in Republicans," or is it a fact that they just didn't like these particular Democrats enough to elect or reelect them?
Also, if voters were saying that they had "more faith" in Republicans on local issues, what does the fact that Democrats won two seats for the House say? Were voters saying that they have "more faith" in Democrats on national issues?
I'm seeing now that Republicans are going to blow these wins way out of proportion. [See Steele's celebratory Heisman: http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/04/steele-heisman/]
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Schmed- ley
November 4, 2009 11:21 AM in reply to hewhohasnoname
Is it a fact that that they "had more faith in Republicans," or is it a fact that they just didn't like these particular Democrats enough to elect or reelect them?
I think that those who showed up had more faith in the Repugs. If, as others have suggested, low turnout did in the Dems (and I can buy that), then apparently the Dems have other problems in addition to being seen as ineffective.
Also, if voters were saying that they had "more faith" in Republicans on local issues, what does the fact that Democrats won two seats for the House say?
I disagree with the premise that the issues were strictly local and that Obama has nothing to worry about (okay, I'm exaggerating that last bit). That notwithstanding, NY is not VA or NJ (even though some people think NY = NJ).
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hewhohasnoname
November 4, 2009 11:51 AM in reply to Schmed- ley
"I think that those who showed up had more faith in the Repugs. If, as others have suggested, low turnout did in the Dems (and I can buy that), then apparently the Dems have other problems in addition to being seen as ineffective."
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. I'm just noting that if you're going to make that assertion about "more faith," there's a concomitant assertion that can be made about the House wins.
Also, to clarify, I'm not dismissing these results. Certainly, there's something to be said for keeping the base motivated. That being said, however, one can't dismiss the impact that mediocre or poor candidates (which both in VA and NJ were -- one was very unpopular and the other was criticized for being unfocused) have on the electorate. If you don't motivate or appeal to voters, they don't get out to vote for you. In an effort to try to search too deeply for what these gubernatorial elections portend for 2010 or 2012, it's a mistake to minimize or ignore the quite prominent "dog-bites-man" aspect of these races that most sufficiently explains why these losses: These candidates did not move, neither figuratively nor literally, the voters of their respective states.
"I disagree with the premise that the issues were strictly local and that Obama has nothing to worry about (okay, I'm exaggerating that last bit). That notwithstanding, NY is not VA or NJ (even though some people think NY = NJ)."
I think it's fine to disagree with a premise. The problem here is that it's not a premise; it's a fact, at least according to the empirical data (i.e., polls) that was collected last night. When asked, voters stated that they were not engaging in a referendum on Obama. Indeed, his approval rating in each state was within ~1% of his 2008 winning percentage in each state.
Bottom line: The fact that Democrats gained an additional Congressional seat and won reelection in a competitive seat (CA-10) by a sound margin is arguably more indicative of the national political climate. And, as such, that climate still looks quite favorable for Democrats.
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Dorn76
November 4, 2009 11:53 AM in reply to hewhohasnoname
This seems pretty damn reasonable to me.
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geofu54
November 4, 2009 12:09 PM in reply to Dorn76
Thirded.
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Ion
November 4, 2009 11:12 AM in reply to Schmed- ley
Other important factors in VA and NJ gubernatorial races that outweigh the "Obama factor," whatever that is.
1) Corzine was an incumbent and Deeds a member of the incumbent party in a time of tremendous state-level economic strife, which Governors can do very little either tangibly or symbolically to assuage. Look for state-level incumbents of both parties to have a horrible time getting reelected in 2010.
2) Corzine earned hundreds of millions of dollars as a Wall Street executive, and voters correctly blame these people for the economic collapse.
3) Deeds ran a horrible campaign, and alienated the base in an off year election by saying he'd opt-out of the public option. He also failed to offer any reason to vote for him other than that McDonnell wrote a grotesque MA thesis a couple decades ago. For a good discussion of the VA race, click here.
4) We did pick up two seats in Congress, one in a district that hadn't elected a Democrat since 1875. This suggests that other issues beyond a mere rejection of Obama drove state-level races. Exit polling data supports this conclusion.
This is not to say that the overall focus of the Democrats on health care rather than the economy over the past few months hasn't hurt the party nationally. If I blame Democratic leadership for anything, it's that they insist on working with a GOP that has proven consitently unwilling to do anything to achieve meaningful health care reform. If they had gone at it alone sooner - and in the Senate, they will have to use reconciliation - we wouldn't be in danger of still talking about health care reform into next year. This cannot be allowed to happen.
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Schmed- ley
November 4, 2009 11:23 AM in reply to Ion
I'm not arguing that there's an "Obama factor." I'm arguing that there's definitely an "Obama consequence" if Gibbs/Obama thinks that these losses are relatively meaningless. All politics is local and every election has consequences. Ignore those premises at your peril if you expect to stay in office.
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geofu54
November 4, 2009 11:43 AM in reply to Schmed- ley
But spinning vis-a-vis the media is one thing (What else could Gibbs have said? Spinning is part of his job), actually taking the results seriously for 2010 and 2012 is another. So you are cool if their spinning is not reflective of their "head-in-the-sand optimism", but just... spinning from the PR department, right?
If so, I see your point.
For now, it seems fair to say VA and NJ were not directly about Obama himself (per the exits), at least not about his agenda. But people do need to see results soon -- results not as numbers but as actual everyday experience -- to be motivated to vote democratic in 2010 and 2012. So, yes, the brass should plan and act accordingly.
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obamaman
November 4, 2009 11:28 AM in reply to Schmed- ley
How bout the FACT that the Dems won two congressional races and added to their House majority, increasing the changes for HCR? Two facts that Lalo and Schmuckly don't want to discuss, since it undermines their own storyline spin. Idiots.
In the NY-23 race where voters could choose a real, unapologetic conservative(as opposed to VA and NY), the wingnut was rejected and a Dem was elected for the first time in 150 years.
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obamaman
November 4, 2009 11:33 AM in reply to obamaman
"chances" for health care reform. Oh, and do any of you Obama-bashing geniuses remember the results of the elections in 2001 in NY and VA? Obviously, they also portended doom for Bush and the Repubs in 2002 and 2004, NOT.
Keep wetting yourselves as you look for any sign of Obama failing, you'll be just as disappointed as you were during the primaries and general election of 2008.
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Schmed- ley
November 4, 2009 12:04 PM in reply to obamaman
Stop talking to yourself. The neighbors will gossip.
FYI, I like President Obama. I supported him financially during the campaign and voted for him. I want him to succeed with his agenda more than anything else.
I just want him to get cracking on it.
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Lalo35adm
November 4, 2009 11:45 AM in reply to VivaAmerica!
I'm not ignoring the fact that Obama didn't move his precious little finger to help marriage equality in Maine. Or to fight Bloomberg in New York.
He moved to New Jersey and banked on a loser with "low approval ratings" as the thread helpfully points out.
Strategery.....
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obamaman
November 4, 2009 11:49 AM in reply to Lalo35adm
yeah, a couple of campaign appearances in NJ means he "moved" there. God, you're as dumb as you always have been. I guess after Obama proved you wrong so many times you need something to hang your hat on, loser.
Poor President Obama will now have to console himself with an even bigger majority in the House and even better chances of passing HCR. LOL, more "rebukes" of Obama, please!
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Lalo35adm
November 4, 2009 11:58 AM in reply to obamaman
Funny how Obama didn't move his precious little finger to win these "consolation" prizes either.
Perhaps you're simply taking Gibb's spin further, by giving Obama credit for the wins (that he had nothing to do with) and absolving him for the losses (including those where he could make a difference and chose to ignore the issues).
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Stroszek
November 4, 2009 12:06 PM in reply to Lalo35adm
No, he's not saying that, but your inability to keep your fragile of aura of troll cool when he mentioned the House pickups last night is pretty funny.
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The Reluctant Conspiracy Theorist
November 4, 2009 12:06 PM in reply to obamaman
Well I certainly hope Obama doesn't get his feelings hurt when future Democratic candidates politely decline his "hands on" support.
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Stroszek
November 4, 2009 12:17 PM in reply to The Reluctant Conspiracy Theorist
Those Obama folks can't run a campaign!
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AJM
November 4, 2009 6:04 PM in reply to Stroszek
Well so far it looks like they are unwilling to run a campaign for anybody but themselves.
They will leak a lot of criticism at inopportune moments but they don't seem willing to be a lot of skin in the game.
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SchrodingersCat
November 4, 2009 12:20 PM in reply to The Reluctant Conspiracy Theorist
Well, I guess the same can be said for Palin, Pawlenty, Armey and the whole gang of wingnut clowns, right?
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Stroszek
November 4, 2009 12:29 PM in reply to SchrodingersCat
No, that would make sense.
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lousgirl84
November 4, 2009 12:45 PM in reply to VivaAmerica!
And two losers
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Dorn76
November 4, 2009 10:49 AM in reply to Lalo35adm
Maybe all that work wasn't enough to save a very weak and unpopular Governor. I know you're giddy, but I'm still not sure this is a referendum on the President. "Not involved" is a bit much, though.
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Walter Mitty
November 4, 2009 10:52 AM in reply to Lalo35adm
What was Corzine's approval/disapproval ratings heading into the campaign?
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rosebowl
November 4, 2009 10:55 AM in reply to Lalo35adm
With Corzine's job approval rating in the very low 30s, the headwind against him was just too much to overcome even with Obama campaigning for him. With approval numbers like that in an off year election, it would take a miracle for Corzine to have won.
But the larger lesson is Obama and by extension Democrats really need to get a MAJOR jobs program in the works, and fast. So far the ideas of the economic team of this White House have been too conventional -- some creative and outside the box thinking would be much welcome. If what it'd take to do this is a second stimulus package, they better get on it now. People are really hurting, and the unemployment rate is unacceptable.
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Stroszek
November 4, 2009 11:58 AM in reply to Lalo35adm
Nice of you to show up and troll today, Lalo.
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Schmed- ley
November 4, 2009 10:42 AM
Mr. Gibbs, please see Tip O'Neill about the consequences of local issues.
The Dems, national and local, better get a grip on what's really bugging people: jobs lost, houses foreclosed, stupid wasteful wars, and bailing out the rich banks and incompetent corporations with our tax dollars. Handle that shit instead of blowing more HCR smoke up our asses, and maybe you'll get (re-)elected in '10 (and markedly improve your chances in '12 too).
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VivaAmerica!
November 4, 2009 10:47 AM in reply to Schmed- ley
I'd like to see how McDonnell and Christie fix that shit while the entire country is going through it. Not once did I hear any detailed solutions from these two candidates - All Generic.
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Schmed- ley
November 4, 2009 10:55 AM in reply to VivaAmerica!
Apparently, so would the majority of voters in VA and NJ. However vague McDonnell and Christie were, they were apparently detailed enough for the voters. Disparage them all you want, but the bottom line is that the Dems have got to do better. Now. Otherwise, it's "hasta la vista, bebe" come next November.
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VivaAmerica!
November 4, 2009 11:06 AM in reply to Schmed- ley
Not they weren't detailed enough. I paid attention and these were the most generic campaigns I have ever seen. The only thing new was their faces.
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again
November 4, 2009 11:15 AM in reply to VivaAmerica!
The fact that the opposition won without any "details" should wake anyone from their smug slumber... but in your case, it probably won't.
I'm not a big fan of daily kos, but I did think his comment today, featured in the HuffPo, was spot-on.
Loyal fourth-generations Democrats like myself expect something for our votes - and we don't think we should have to be called "progressive" for asking for basic Democratic values to be pursued with a reasonable level of vigor.
As opposed to the resting on his stomach that we see from the President in order that lobbyists can jump on his back.
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readytoblowagasket
November 4, 2009 10:52 AM
"Local issues" = the economy and health care = national issues = Obama.
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Schmed- ley
November 4, 2009 10:56 AM in reply to readytoblowagasket
Yup.
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obamaman
November 4, 2009 11:45 AM in reply to Schmed- ley
oh, you mean HCR isn't just a bunch of "smoke up our asses"? What did you mean by that above anyway? Millions uninsured and bankrupt isn't an important issue to voters? Congress shouldn't be engaged in HCR? The insane costs of healthcare don't have an effect on our economy and ability to grow?
You really are clueless.
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Schmed- ley
November 4, 2009 12:00 PM in reply to obamaman
Ah, you do know how to work the "reply" link! He CAN be taught!
Glad you asked. I meant that HCR is not the only thing that Americans are worried about, but it seems to be the only thing that the Democrats are interested in. People are worried about the economy, their jobs, their mortgages, and the deficit, but from what's happened so far, it doesn't look like the Dems have got their backs on those issues. Rolling up their sleeves and doing something that actually produces real jobs, helps them stay in their houses (as opposed to getting a one-time credit to buy a new one), and relieves their worries that their grandkids will be working off Bush's (and now Obama's) record deficits is the kind of action they were looking for. Arguing ad infinitum about the 1% of people who get to take advantage of some public option is good press, but it's not getting the job done.
That's what I meant. Not the words you're trying to expectorate into my mouth with the faint hope that I would embrace their false impression.
Now, run along sonny.
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agio
November 4, 2009 1:12 PM in reply to Schmed- ley
To be fair health care reform is a huge and very contentious issue that is virtually guaranteed to suck up all the oxygen in the room whenever it is brought up. Which is why I think it was very smart of Team Obama to address this issue now, with the midterm elections pretty far out.
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again
November 4, 2009 2:48 PM in reply to agio
that I'll grant you, although with stronger support from the WH, it could have been resolved earlier. and getting it resolved in a timely fashion is important.
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agio
November 4, 2009 5:15 PM in reply to again
Honestly I'm not sure there's anything Obama can do to rush things through the Senate. He certainly could be more willing to use his bully-pulpit to talk up health care reform among the electorate, I'll grant you that.
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again
November 4, 2009 8:56 PM in reply to agio
exactly what was missing
along with a broad educational outreach through OFA in the spring
bad planning, bad organization, all pointing to a deal struck not just with pharma but with insurers
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howie
November 4, 2009 10:59 AM
When did TPM become RedState?
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again
November 4, 2009 11:05 AM in reply to howie
If Democrats ask that their leaders actually act like Democrats and deliver, it makes TPM the equivalent of Red State?
I don't require a daily laundry list of how incompetent the GOP is. I already know about that.
I need someone getting the message to Democratic reps and our Democratic President that the (D) isn't just for decoration.
They can deliver change or the scary right, trust me, will be delivering their own kind of change.
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VivaAmerica!
November 4, 2009 11:12 AM in reply to again
Please be honest. You guys want the Dems to move hard and fast to the Left. Democrats have been acting like Democrats - all free thinking, do what I want, challenge authority and stuff. Ever since the health care debate began, sites like this have been demanding that Dems fall in line and move Left.
Not disagreeing one way or the other, just saying.
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again
November 4, 2009 11:22 AM in reply to VivaAmerica!
I respectfully disagree.
Asking the President to support the public option - which was originally an idea of Republican Teddy Roosevelt and conservative Bismarck in Germany - that is not asking him to move hard and fast to the left.
Asking the President to break up the banking trusts, to address "too big to fail" and to reinstate Glass-Steagall is NOT asking his to move hard and fast to the left. It is in the tradition of one of the greatest GOP leaders - Teddy Roosevelt. It is also in the tradition of Democratic Presidents like FDR, Truman and LBJ.
Those are basic values - devoid of partisanship.
It is you who marks them as somehow "leftist." It is you who does not understand what a Democrat is.
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wbgonne
November 4, 2009 2:11 PM in reply to again
Astute analysis. Obama has to get HCR done successfully and get it done NOW. Not next year. Until HCR is finished nothing else will happen. The Repubs are just trying to run out the clock by screeching about Obama's radical agenda that must be slowed for the sake of the country. Then they'll turn around at the mid-terms and say Obama and the Dems are failures because they didn't accomplish anything. And if they get clobbered in the mid-terms, the Dems will be too weak and frightened to do anything significant after that. It isn't rocket science but the Dems better their asses in gear quickly or there is big trouble ahead. Oh, and incidentally, the country can really use some leadership from our president and Congress. Time to step up or fall back.
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Schmed- ley
November 4, 2009 11:05 AM in reply to howie
Can you point me to the part in the User Policy that says we have to agree with Obama & his minions 100% of the time? I seem to have missed that.
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numediaman
November 4, 2009 11:12 AM in reply to Schmed- ley
Well said.
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agio
November 4, 2009 1:17 PM in reply to Schmed- ley
Is it right next to the bit about being able spout off without getting any pushback from other users?
I don't see anyone trying to shut you down. Just disagreeing with what you have to say.
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Schmed- ley
November 4, 2009 2:25 PM in reply to agio
Pushback is fine. Tarring all contrarians as Redstate zombies is not trying to shut them down? YMMV.
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agio
November 4, 2009 2:47 PM in reply to Schmed- ley
Well it's certainly not something I would say to another poster, so maybe you are correct. People are on edge today, I guess.
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Hechicera
November 4, 2009 11:06 AM
Low turnout. That is what got them. Republicans will turn out regardless of the quality of the ticket. It isn't even that "Dems are happy so stayed home". I don't think so.
Independents, and it seems a lot of Dems can't be arsed if the top of the Democratic ticket is ... to put it as politely as I can .. lackluster. Dems need better candidates. The issue isn't the Republicans gaining per se, but the majority of the eligible voters will look at the ticket and think "They all suck" and not go vote. When that happens the Republican candidate's chances of winning go way up.
In the NY race, there was so much drama, I'm not sure you can draw any broad conclusions from that mess.
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AJM
November 4, 2009 12:27 PM in reply to Hechicera
We need a cultural change so the Independents and Democrats get it that they need to go out and vote. Some of it is that there is a tradition of senior voting in this country and the Republicans have more seniors but there needs to be a cultural shift in which the young vote. Obama started it but so far it has not kept up.
Not voting is often produces the same effect as voting Republican. There are a lot of people staying home who would never directly vote Republican but this produces the same result.
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sbv
November 4, 2009 11:06 AM
my sentiments exactly, but i will let markos from the daily kos say so much better:
There will be much number-crunching tomorrow, but preliminary numbers (at least in Virginia) show that GOP turnout remained the same as last year, but Democratic turnout collapsed. This is a base problem, and this is what Democrats better take from tonight:
1. If you abandon Democratic principles in a bid for unnecessary "bipartisanship", you will lose votes.
2. If you water down reform in favor of Blue Dogs and their corporate benefactors, you will lose votes.
3. If you forget why you were elected -- health care, financial services, energy policy and immigration reform -- you will lose votes.
in exit polls for both new jersey and virginia, the #1 concern among voters was unemployment; yet in the stupid hope of getting bi-partisan support for president obama's economic recovery bill passed, the democrats took out monies for job creation and the states in favor of tax cuts.
if anything, last nights results, in my opinion, completely repudiates the good ol' gop's mantra of "tax cuts" as the sole solution to all things economic. how many times do the democrats need to learn this lesson after the last eight years. tax cuts do not create jobs for the middle class!
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numediaman
November 4, 2009 11:09 AM
The question isn't "was Obama the issue in these races". The national press will make it the issue and that is the same thing.
For local residents, they may have voted one way or the other based on local/regional issues, but for the national audience every election outside their own area is about the national scene -- that is, Obama and the Democrats.
I personally think that the importance of these two governors races are way overblown. But if we are here one year from now, still talking about health care reform and Afghanistan and jobs and Wall Street . . . the Democrats are toast.
If Obama is serious about passing legislation he has to stop depending on the Congress to lead -- that is suicide. He has to do the heavy lifting . . . or else enjoy playing basketball in the WH for three years before joining the lecture circuit.
(I will say, though, that two things stood out for me concerning yesterday election: 1) gays have a long way to go because bigotry is deeply ingrained in the American public -- trying to convince old white guys that gays should rights is probably a waste of time; and 2) Obama supporting Corzine only deepens the links in the public's minds between this administration and the corruption on Wall Street -- if Obama wants to be the reform President he can not do it by having an administration run by former GS execs and employees.)
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numediaman
November 4, 2009 11:14 AM in reply to numediaman
Sorry for the typos, I hit "submit" before proofing. I hate when I do that!
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Stroszek
November 4, 2009 12:05 PM in reply to numediaman
The national press will make it the issue and that is the same thing.
Uh, no it's not. The national press said the Nobel Prize would hurt Obama. It helped. The national press said the Olympics would devastate his image. It did nothing. The national press says shit all the time. They're rarely right.
Nobody watches the cable nets but hardcore partisan junkies, and nobody will care what Matt Lauer will have to say about races in states they don't live in. Go out and ask Joe Swing Vote about what he thinks of Chris Christie and his response will be: "Who?"
I'm disappointed we lost these races, but I'm glad we also added two votes for the public option last night. I realize this is chum for Obama carpers of all stripes, but the notion that last night was about Obama is just silly... and the actual polling data proves it.
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numediaman
November 4, 2009 12:56 PM in reply to Stroszek
I'm confused by your response. Are you saying that the national press won't make this a national issue? Because I didn't say anything about how it will play out, just that the press WILL make it a national issue.
I also have to disagree with your statements about the national press: just because the press may be wrong does not effect whether they are influential. You state the Obama examples as ways the press were wrong and not influential, but what about Fox News and the Teabaggers. Were not the Teabaggers influenced by Fox News? Or do you think that the Teabaggers rose out of a grass root movement with no influence from Fox News?
The press can be 100% wrong and still influential. Another example: the Iraq War. They were wrong almost completely, yet their coverage effected public opinion. Andrew Kohut reported on the News Hour in October of 2002 this: "I have eight polls in front of me from major polling organizations, the support levels for --general support levels for using force range from 50 to 65 or 66 percent with an average of about 60 percent."
The press may have been wrong, and may be wrong today, but they remain very influential.
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Dorn76
November 4, 2009 12:10 PM in reply to numediaman
I totally agree on gay marriage. When did we ever put Civil Rights up for a referendum? Some things are just fundamental, and that is the tack that gay marriage advocates should be taking. I live in CT, and there has been zero outcry from the public about our legislatively imposed gay marriages.
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again
November 4, 2009 2:55 PM in reply to Dorn76
with all due respect, Dorn, with massive unemployment, 47 million uninsured, manufacturing in the toilet, and the widening power of the banks which we'll just have to bail out again which at that point will FULLY bankrupt us, most Americans who would normally go out to support gay marriage are thinking, "this is not a priority."
Get people employed. Then go after civil unions. Once you have that established in 30 states, go for gay marriage. But in this environment, those pushing for gay marriage are actually doing more to hurt it.
One out of ten foreclosed homeowners is living in a shelter. There are more pressing issues you're not considering.
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obamaman
November 4, 2009 11:21 AM
Hey Schmuckly--check the exit polling in VA and NJ--show me one speck of evidence that this had anything to do with a referendum on Obama. While I'm waiting, I'll also remind you that Dems added to their majority in the House--you know, the federal legislature that actually has an effect on Obama's agenda.
If their was one "nationalized" election here, it was NY-23, which was also a referendum on the wingnut teabagging movement. How'd that work out for you? Oh right, that doesn't fit in with your idiotic "Obama is doomed" storyline.
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again
November 4, 2009 11:26 AM in reply to obamaman
I'm happy the tea baggers lost in 23, but in reality, we won another blue dog.
That win may support Obama's current agenda of sucking up to PhRMA and the insurers, and of kowtowing to the banks, but it will not serve the agenda that Obama campaigned on.
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obamaman
November 4, 2009 11:38 AM in reply to again
a blue dog who supports the House HCR efforts. And the fact of the matter is, despite what some idiots here and the MSM are now ignoring, the NY-23 was the only "nationalized" election, and one of only two that had an effect on advancing Obama's agenda in congress. The voters chose a Dem and a progressive, and rejected the wingnut and the Repub.
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Dorn76
November 4, 2009 11:51 AM in reply to obamaman
How can you use the guy's name in your avatar and then go around trying to burn bridges? Take a lesson from the man himself and seek common ground.
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Dorn76
November 4, 2009 12:01 PM in reply to Dorn76
All I mean is I don't see how it is helpful or accurate to call anyone and everyone who sees some bad signs in last nights results a moron or an idiot.
You're spinning like a top if you think last night was anything but a bad day for incumbents, and guess what? That means it was a worse day for Democrats. With great power comes great responsiblity, kid.
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AJM
November 4, 2009 12:34 PM in reply to Dorn76
Um, and how has that worked out for him?
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Dorn76
November 4, 2009 1:52 PM in reply to AJM
I suppose he should rule by fiat?
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AJM
November 4, 2009 6:02 PM in reply to Dorn76
He should let the majority rule -- not undercut his own program in the lame hope of getting one or two votes from the Republicans.
It takes two to tango: Obama promised what he could not deliver -- good behavior from the Republicans.
All the Republicans are interested in is helping Obama fail. If they were concerned about the welfare of Americans they would have at least presented their own health care plan several months back if they were serious about the ideas in it instead of simply hoping to slow the legislative process down.
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Schmed- ley
November 4, 2009 11:41 AM in reply to obamaman
I think you were responding to me, although it's difficult for me to tell due to 1) you didn't click a "reply" link which would create a logical track for the readers to follow; 2) your potentially ad hominem misspelling of my monicker suggests that you were looking for someone else; 3) your grasp of grammar and spelling in general makes it hard for an intelligent, educated person to divine your intent.
Nonetheless, having made the presumption that you were in fact addressing me, I would like to point out that I do not believe either election in NJ or VA were referenda on Obama. I merely assert that for Mr. Gibbs to describe Democratic losses of gubernatorial seats in large blue states as relatively inconsequential to the president misses the obvious point that Obama is head of the Democratic party and as such, their (or as you would have it, there) loss is his (hiz?) loss to some degree. I think the degree is substantial, you and Mr. Gibbs may think otherwise. At least, I know Mr. Gibbs thinks. About you, I have my doubts.
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obamaman
November 4, 2009 11:59 AM in reply to Schmed- ley
oh no, a couple typos on a message board, I'm so stupid! Which part of "Dems added to their majority in the House" didn't you understand? No typos in that sentence, so your little brain shouldn't have too much trouble wrapping itself around that.
See, when YOU completely ignore facts that undermine YOUR argument, you look very foolish and dishonest. YOU'RE certainly not one to be taken seriously.
Hope that wasn't too complicated for you.
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Schmed- ley
November 4, 2009 12:07 PM in reply to obamaman
Wow. What a dazzling display of rational and civil discourse. Thanks so much for playing. Vanna has some lovely parting gifts for you.
Buh-bye.
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FlipYrWhig
November 4, 2009 11:27 AM
Meh. I'm in VA and McDonnell said bupkes about taking a stand to challenge the repressive Obama regime, defend the state against liberal degeneracy, or anything else that might smack of repudiating Obama and/or liberalism. He ran on tax cuts and smiley forward-looking-ness. Deeds somehow ran without a theme, basically meandering along and looking a bit befuddled. I'm disappointed because McDonnell is an old-line culture warrior. But none of the rhetoric he adopted suggested teabaggerish "Stand Up For FREEDOM!!~`1." It was the Reagan '80 playbook: confidence and ease vs. the other guy's looking burdened and angsty.
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Mauimom
November 4, 2009 12:17 PM
Did it ever occur to Obama [and Rahm] that perhaps the reason Dems stayed home from a number of these races is that they don't find the Rahm-orchestrated "race to the right" an attractive position?
Look at the support and notoriety Grayson gets for speaking out, speaking forcefully, and speaking the truth.
Americans are mad, and have one Crazy Party [Republicans] and one Wimpy Party [Democrats] does not satisfy their need to identify culprits and kick some butt.
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Stroszek
November 4, 2009 12:24 PM in reply to Mauimom
Yes, and then they realized that Obama wasn't running for reelection last night.
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VLaszlo
November 4, 2009 12:28 PM in reply to Mauimom
I agree with you and would go further. Part of the reason Democrats lost in the Gubernatorial races was Democratic turnout especially among younger voters and minorities. The palpable disenchantment with Obama among progressives means GOTV suffers dramatically. Whatever Obama's general approval ratings are, he will not help elect others if he does not generate enthusiasm and approval amongst those who put in time, money, effort. So far his administration has approval for not being Bush not for its own paltry accomplishments. In terms of basic "change" it does not look to be forthcoming. We will have a long wait.
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agio
November 4, 2009 1:14 PM in reply to VLaszlo
In Virginia at least the low turnout among younger and minority voters is more of the fault of Deeds than Obama. You can't run as a Democrat, vocally oppose the major policy initiative of the Democratic president, and expect to get a lot of support from voters who were energized by the same President a year ago.
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VLaszlo
November 4, 2009 2:50 PM in reply to agio
I have not yet seen full analysis of turnout and there are many reasons for low turnout. On the other hand a President with relatively high approval, urging high turnout, should have some worries in my opinion. Here is an account from CNN:
"In New Jersey, while Corzine overwhelmingly won among African-Americans, only 14 percent of the vote was black; young people, age 18 to 29, made up 9 percent of the vote and 36 percent of them backed Republican Chris Christie. Meanwhile, 60 percent of independents supported Christie as well.
The numbers were worse for Deeds in Virginia. "
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again
November 4, 2009 12:48 PM
Full disclosure: I'm not a "real" political analyst, nor do I play one on TV.
And I don't think anyone else here is, either.
But I do hope and pray that what I perceive as a minor judgment (if any) on the administration in the GOP victories yesterday sends a message to Obama and the DNC.
They need to get their act together. BEFORE 2010.
The fact that we like them better than Palin? That is just not going to be enough to get the necessary organizers and campaign workers back.
Obama isn't perfect, that's okay. I can work with imperfect, BUT I need to see some tangible evidence of strong leadership.
As the Beastie Boys wrote, "We need body rockin', not perfection." He needs to get rockin, FDR-style, Truman-style, LBJ-style.
Obama-style worked well in the campaign - but it's not leadership of the kind that an economic crisis of this magnitude demands.
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VLaszlo
November 4, 2009 2:55 PM in reply to again
second
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dswx
November 4, 2009 12:51 PM
"paltry accomplishments"???
That's is pure rubbish.
For starters:
Stem cell research
Getting out of Iraq
Turning the economy around from a disaster
Environmental laws
Return of world respect
Heck, even kept the country safe from terrorists ;-)
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