
The new national poll from Public Policy Polling (D) has an astonishing number about paranoia among the GOP base: Republicans do not think President Obama actually won the 2008 election -- instead, ACORN stole it.
This number goes a long way towards explaining the anger of the Tea Party crowd. They not only think Obama's agenda is against America, but they don't think he was actually the choice of the American people at all! Interestingly, NY-23 Conservative candidate Doug Hoffman is now accusing ACORN of stealing his race, and Fox News personalities have often speculated about ACORN stealing the 2008 Minnesota Senate race for Al Franken.
The poll asked this question: "Do you think that Barack Obama legitimately won the Presidential election last year, or do you think that ACORN stole it for him?" The overall top-line is legitimately won 62%, ACORN stole it 26%.
Among Republicans, however, only 27% say Obama actually won the race, with 52% -- an outright majority -- saying that ACORN stole it, and 21% are undecided. Among McCain voters, the breakdown is 31%-49%-20%. By comparison, independents weigh in at 72%-18%-10%, and Democrats are 86%-9%-4%.
Now, the obvious comparison would be that many Democrats felt that George W. Bush didn't legitimately win the 2000 election. But there are some clear differences.
First of all, Al Gore empirically won the national popular vote in 2000, and lost in a disputed recount process in Florida. By comparison, John McCain lost the national popular vote by a 53%-46% margin.
In order to believe that Obama wasn't the true winner of the 2008 election, one would have to think that ACORN (and perhaps other groups) stuffed ballots to the tune of over 9.5 million votes, Obama's national margin.
PPP communications director Tom Jensen says: "Belief in the ACORN conspiracy theory is even higher among GOP partisans than the birther one, which only 42% of Republicans expressed agreement with on our national survey in September."
Moose49
November 19, 2009 12:31 PM
Jeebus -- this is mass insanity. How does a country function when a significant number of people are completely and utterly disconnected from reality?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
mc mark
November 19, 2009 12:39 PM in reply to Moose49
I blame the America Idolization of America.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Moloko+
November 19, 2009 12:59 PM in reply to Moose49
This is really not fair since so few people actually identify themselves as Republicans anymore. Nothing but the crazies are left!!!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
jenzinoh
November 19, 2009 1:03 PM in reply to Moloko+
I guess, but given the crazies already started out pretty stupid, how is that they seem to get dumber every day?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
DownriverDem
November 19, 2009 1:04 PM in reply to Moloko+
Fair? The GOP doesn't know what the word means.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
rwc
November 19, 2009 3:29 PM in reply to DownriverDem
And the difference between these people and das Volk of 1930s Germany is what exactly?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Moose49
November 19, 2009 4:32 PM in reply to rwc
The other relevant point in this historical comparison is that Hitler never got a majority -- he was able to gain power and then consolidate it because his opposition was ineffectual, something Senate Democrats seem to be trying to emulate.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Hobartcat
November 19, 2009 8:32 PM in reply to Moose49
Wait, how many actually identify as Republican? Isn't that number somewhere around 30%?
What are we really talking about here?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
RKT
November 20, 2009 9:03 AM in reply to Hobartcat
Actually, it's closer to 20 percent. I suspect a polling of Republicans includes a sample size of about three.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JNagarya
November 23, 2009 9:00 AM in reply to Moloko+
Here's evdience for that craziness:
"NY-23 Conservative candidate Doug Hoffman is now accusing ACORN of stealing his race, . . . ."
Bullshit: if he'd look into a mirror, he'd see that he's still white.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Peter Principle
November 19, 2009 1:13 PM in reply to Moose49
Well, we spent the past 8 years finding out that it doesnt.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
November 19, 2009 2:09 PM in reply to Peter Principle
And, by the most amazing coincidence, the same percentage thought they were doing a dandy job right up to the bitter end think S.P.E.C.T.R.E. stole the election for Obama.
Oops, sorry. I mean ACORN, of course. Not that there's a difference.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
anelder
November 19, 2009 8:14 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
Gotcha - someone who seems to know what he's talking about. So tell me just what is it that ACORN does? And how did they manage to so whatever they do that managed to falsify 9 million votes for Obama? If I could see the logic to this I would join your gang. I'd also hire all their people so they could do this again for my cause.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
RKT
November 20, 2009 9:21 AM in reply to anelder
Acorn is a network of community organizers that encourages and enables low-income individuals to register to vote and vote. According to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, that makes ACORN a Neo-Nazi, Communist, Socialist, Fascist, predominately NON-WHITE (YIKES!) organization, especially suspect and evil because Obama once worked as a community organizer (DOUBLE YIKES!!!)
The objective media icons such as Rush, Glen, and the rest of the Fox News gang (Family?), allied as they are with the sleaziest of Republican fear mongers (e.g., Roger Ailes and Karl Rove), and the greediest of corporate America, really, really hate for low-income citizens to vote, because such citizens just so rarely act against their self interests and vote Republican. Thus Fox News, and all its white, racist, Bubba, hate-filled viewers and allies hate Acorn.
P.S. I'm a WASP.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JNagarya
November 23, 2009 9:02 AM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
I knew someone would shoe-horn that in . . .
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Observerinvancouver
November 19, 2009 1:22 PM in reply to Moose49
The rest of the world would really like an answer to that question.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Soulipsis
November 19, 2009 2:18 PM in reply to Moose49
ACORN is involved in campaigning and voter support. Do they have any access to election infrastucture? Do their members sit on Boards of Election?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
jenesq
November 19, 2009 2:59 PM in reply to Soulipsis
No, and no. But they're so magically powerful, they can steal elections anyway! @@
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
AJM
November 19, 2009 7:31 PM in reply to jenesq
The really telling point is the number of polls that ACORN has been able to steal since the election!
ROFLMAO!
Sigh, wiping eyes -- well, we KNEW the Rethuglicans were reality challenged!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
RKT
November 20, 2009 9:26 AM in reply to AJM
The amusing thing is how their conspiracy theories grow increasingly absurd. I expect that within a couple of months they'll be blaming Col. Mustard in the Study with the Candlestick.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JNagarya
November 20, 2009 4:17 PM in reply to RKT
See, ACORN is black, and they do their dirty work at night, so no one can see anything they're doing.
. . .
What was that Beatles lyric? --
"Mean Mister Mustard sleeps in a chair/
trying to save paper!
"Nothing is Beatle proof!" -- John Lennon.
And he and Yoko once buried an --
ACORN!
with the intent that it grow into a mighty oak tree!
Forests are not only dark, they're Democrat(ic)!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
slb
November 19, 2009 8:08 PM in reply to jenesq
Of course!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
AdAbsurdum
November 19, 2009 12:33 PM
It is difficult to blame these poor fools when this is agressively pushed by a network which members of the rest of the mainstream media, people such as Jake Tapper, viciously defend as legitimate.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
MNPundit
November 19, 2009 12:44 PM in reply to AdAbsurdum
It's not difficult at all.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
AdAbsurdum
November 19, 2009 2:59 PM in reply to MNPundit
Well, OK. It isn't. Fox does serve what they demand, and with Acorn they serve hysteria over minorities actually having the arrogance of voting. Nevertheless, it is indisputable that the mainstream media do lend legitimacy to the Murdoch propaganda machine, legitimacy without which, Fox and this fantasy worldview would be marginalized, so much of the blame lays in the hands of the mainstream.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
MNPundit
November 19, 2009 8:15 PM in reply to AdAbsurdum
Well certainly that's true. I blame everyone.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
RichM
November 19, 2009 12:34 PM
Astonishing? What's astonishing is that it is only 52%. Isn't the birther number higher?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
RichM
November 19, 2009 12:36 PM in reply to RichM
RTFP - The birther number is actually lower.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JNagarya
November 20, 2009 4:20 PM in reply to RichM
And 73 per cent of that is represented in Oily Tits.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
condew
November 19, 2009 12:39 PM
I can't believe you get this level of delusion without an organized effort to push the falsehoods. It's more than just Faux News.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Andreams
November 19, 2009 1:11 PM in reply to condew
Have you ever heard msm or any other media report in detail about the actual problems with ACORN as opposed to the outlandish lies? I haven't. As long as the media just keeps repeating the accusations, it will get worse. In comparison with some repus state committees, ACORN is angelic. ACORN did a wonderful job of enrolling voters and when they did the right thing and identified fraudulent apps, they segregated them and let the elections offices know. Guess that's not an exciting thing to report. They do so many other good things that we never hear about.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Richardxx
November 19, 2009 1:50 PM in reply to condew
An individual only has a limited amount of time for news gathering each day, so we all select how we are going to choose where we get our news.
My bet is that a lot of it comes from the pulpits of the evangelicals and other religions like the Catholics and Mormons. Many of the mega churches have been organized for years to put out their own spin on political things. Does Tony Perkins still have his regular weekly phone conference with mega-church pastors? He used to.
Combine that with the propaganda the conservatives have been putting out since the Reagan era that the non-conservative news sources are not to be trusted. Combine that with the clear Murdoch propaganda.
All of this is aimed at the right wing individuals with an authoritarian mindset, and you get a large group of people who only read, watch and listen to conservative sources that all work from the same set of talking points each week.
I'm not very surprised that they are getting a lot of misinformation.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Aslanleon
November 20, 2009 11:52 AM in reply to Richardxx
I was a conservative pastor for thirty years and I never gave or heard a political sermon. However, my liberal friends have heard and given many. The idea that evangelicals and Catholics preach political sermons is contrary to reality. As for Mormons, who knows? If you know of any churches which has supported a candidate or even mentioned one from the pulpit, call the IRS. They are breaking the law and should be reported. Don't be surprised if it is the liberal churches that are the real offenders here.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JNagarya
November 20, 2009 4:29 PM in reply to Aslanleon
What in hell is a "conservative pastor"? The "conservatives" constantly beat up on the poor -- as represented by such as ACORN -- and invariably give tax cuts, tax cuts, and more tax cuts, to those who least need them: the wealthy.
Was Christ a "conservative"? Not if one judges by his words and deeds. By those measures he was a Liberal.
"Conservative pastor" is simply an alternative spelling of the word "hypocrite".
As for your allegations against "liberal" churches: there is a Commandment -- not "Request" or "Suggestion" -- which applies: Thou shalt not lie against others.
Either substantiate that smear or retract it.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Mike Hickerson
November 19, 2009 4:09 PM in reply to condew
"organized effort to push falsehoods". Hmmm. Does "The Arkansas Project " ring any bells? Think those people volunteered to stop and forgo their subsidized offices and paychecks? Did The Mellon , Scaiffe, Coors and Olin family foundations run out of money?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
RKT
November 20, 2009 9:35 AM in reply to condew
The conspiracy theories quite obviously arise from the Republican propaganda machine, driven by Great Deceivers such as Karl Rove and -- dah dah dah -- Roger Ailes. Ailes, of course, runs Fox News. Fox News is a purpose-built, ground-up, right-wing, propaganda delivery mechanism, nothing more and nothing less. It isn't surprising it can drive propaganda without any assist.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Noam Sane
November 19, 2009 12:40 PM
We are Idiocracy.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Cool Blue Reason
November 19, 2009 12:44 PM in reply to Noam Sane
Brawndo's got electrolytes.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
The Old Grouch
November 19, 2009 1:47 PM in reply to Cool Blue Reason
It's what plants crave.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Odel Roo
November 19, 2009 5:56 PM in reply to The Old Grouch
There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick ass lives. My first wife was 'tarded. She's a pilot now
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JNagarya
November 20, 2009 4:33 PM in reply to Odel Roo
Pilot? Or autopilot?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JohnW1141
November 19, 2009 12:42 PM
The wingnuts have finally found someone else to blame other than Bill Clinton for this morning's burnt toast.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
LindyLou
November 19, 2009 12:48 PM in reply to JohnW1141
I think you are on to something there...it seems it took about 8 years into Bush's (p)residency before they let up a little on blaming everything on Clinton...R's always need a scapegoat. They are all nuts.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Schmed
November 19, 2009 12:42 PM
Remember, these are the same people who proudly elected and reelected Shrub. If that didn't legitimately call their sanity into question, then nothing else would.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
CN
November 19, 2009 1:16 PM in reply to Schmed
Bingo. And if Shrub had not completely wrecked the economy, the dimwits would have elected McCain.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
OhioMan
November 20, 2009 8:39 AM in reply to Schmed
These are also the people standing in line for hours at bookstores to glimpse their inerrant goddess, Sarah Palin. Fools, all of them.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
RKT
November 20, 2009 9:41 AM in reply to Schmed
As much as I disdain Republicans, they don't deserve ALL the blame for Shrub. Plenty of Democrats must have voted for him on both occasions. How quickly they forget their sins.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
calbearinillinois
November 19, 2009 12:43 PM
This is the biggest sign of the true psychosis of the core base. The closer comparison to this election isn't how anyone felt after 2000 - where the issue was so close only a 5-4 Supreme Court ruling ended the recount in Florida - but how people viewed the 1992 or 2004 election. Very few people think Bush stole 04 or that Clinton (by conspiring with Perot) stole 92, but those that do are a die hard bunch.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
bracken
November 19, 2009 4:10 PM in reply to calbearinillinois
Define "very few."
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
RKT
November 20, 2009 9:44 AM in reply to calbearinillinois
Bush didn't steal '04. Daddy paid good money to his Supreme Court cronies so that Junior would have it.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
RKT
November 20, 2009 9:46 AM in reply to RKT
Whoops. That was '00. You're right, he simply stole '04.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
roxsteady
November 19, 2009 12:47 PM
Are they aware that ACORN doesn't have offices in Upstate NY?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
mans_best_friend
November 19, 2009 1:38 PM in reply to roxsteady
ACORN has telekinetic powers.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
lyleleander
November 19, 2009 1:51 PM in reply to roxsteady
Yeah, but I'm sure people still get BET on tv.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JEP07
November 19, 2009 9:47 PM in reply to roxsteady
Lets not muddle this up with facts...
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
sunnysteve
November 19, 2009 12:49 PM
My wife was a schoolteacher. They had a saying: "You wonder why some kids are the way they are, and then you meet their parents....."
Well, you wonder why Republicans are the way they are? Meet their senators and representatives.
Just who do you think elected Cornyn, Inhofe, Bachmann, ..........?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
twoviragos
November 19, 2009 1:32 PM in reply to sunnysteve
My dad had a similar saying: The asshole doesn't fall far from the tree ;).
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JEP07
November 20, 2009 9:53 AM in reply to twoviragos
You're saying the Republican party is an asshole tree?
"By their fruits ye shall know them!"
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
haaz
November 19, 2009 12:49 PM
ACORN stole my lunch in third grade!! I'm telling my mommy!!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
mgmonklewis
November 19, 2009 1:25 PM in reply to haaz
[with a hat tip to Marc Maron and Morning Sedition]
ACORN stole my shoe!
FIRETRUCK!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
roy_flagg00
November 19, 2009 3:15 PM in reply to mgmonklewis
A single tear drops from my eye. My mornings have never been the same.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
cmaukonen
November 19, 2009 12:49 PM
That's right. According to the republican, right wing fringe - if you are NOT a White Anglo Saxon Protestant, you are not really an American and there for ineligible to vote or hold office.
C
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Moloko+
November 19, 2009 1:02 PM in reply to cmaukonen
.......Unless we have to send warm bodies overseas to fight a war. Then we're one big happy family.....
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
cmaukonen
November 19, 2009 1:56 PM in reply to Moloko+
That is only recently. For a very long time only "real" Americans could fight over seas. This excluded - blacks, Japanese, Chinese, Hispanics...yes and sometimes even Jewish.
C
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
jjdjjd
November 19, 2009 4:24 PM in reply to cmaukonen
you lie !! blacks were with the army unit known as 'the big red 1', plus in the navy. hispanics were in all units, a japanese unit, i believe the 442nd, was one of the most decorated american units in ww2. the military became segregated under woodrow wilson, which was against blacks. wilson was a democrat, a liberal, and a bigot. do not diminish the minorities sacrifices without knowing what you are talking about. many died so you could spread these lies. truman desegregated the military offically in 1947, but it was in fact done by white generals in WW2. by the way ask some white pilots returning from their bombing runs over germany if they were happy when they saw the 555th [the triple nickle] escort them back to england. god, i hate people who don't know what they are talking about.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Kuyleh
November 19, 2009 4:40 PM in reply to jjdjjd
There's so much irony in this rant that anyone with one active braincell would choke on it...
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
jjdjjd
November 19, 2009 4:46 PM in reply to Kuyleh
oh you again? you only like lie's if you believe the nitwit i responded to. stay out of it lest i release my wrath on you.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Kuyleh
November 19, 2009 5:05 PM in reply to jjdjjd
LOL! OMG, please! I'm begging you...Release your "wrath" on me! I need more to laugh at today, and a rightwing nutso threatening to hurt me over the internet fits the bill awesomely.
Also, again, learn English before you attempt to insult someone. It really will make you the slightest bit more credible...
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
jjdjjd
November 19, 2009 7:54 PM in reply to Kuyleh
ur picture says it all gay bar
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Kuyleh
November 19, 2009 8:01 PM in reply to jjdjjd
And your comment shows exactly how little you know about...Well, anything. Look it up on YouTube, retard. It's a song.
Is that all of your wrath? Attempting to annoy me with pathetic English and lame insults? I'm disappointed.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
jjdjjd
November 19, 2009 8:56 PM in reply to Kuyleh
not that there's anything wrong with it
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Kuyleh
November 20, 2009 12:25 AM in reply to jjdjjd
You're right. There's not. It's a funny song. But keep pretending you have something relevant to say.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
jjdjjd
November 20, 2009 5:40 AM in reply to Kuyleh
looked it up, the song fits you to a 't'
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JNagarya
November 20, 2009 4:38 PM in reply to jjdjjd
The military was integrated by Harry Truman. During WWII there were not only Japanese-American-only units, but also black-only.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Aslanleon
November 20, 2009 11:57 AM in reply to cmaukonen
A little spin through military history will cure your delusions nicely. Blacks have served in combat positions in every war. To be fair, in WW 1 and 2, they had a limited role because of the liberal Wilson segregating the Army, but in every other one they were represented. As for the rest of the list, they too served in every war. A Pima Indian and a Hispanic were two of the flag raisers on Iwo Jima.
Bad history, pal.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
RKT
November 20, 2009 9:53 AM in reply to cmaukonen
That is not entirely accurate. The wingnuts also believe non-whites are not entitled to food, shelter, or oxygen.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
bobzaguy
November 20, 2009 1:47 PM in reply to cmaukonen
So, "…if you are NOT a White Anglo Saxon Protestant, you are not really an American and there for ineligible to vote or hold office."
I say that is a White ASP –sort of the snake variety, but in this case the 'P' is silent.
simply a White Ass.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
bluestatedon
November 19, 2009 12:49 PM
It's hardly surprising, considering that the vast majority of Republicans think that Rush and Glenn and Ann and Billo speak the truth. Anybody who thinks that Americans are incapable of falling for the sorts of lies perpetuated by the National Socialists in 1930s Germany isn't paying attention.
GOP: The Party of Ignorant Nuts
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
DownriverDem
November 19, 2009 1:01 PM in reply to bluestatedon
These folks aren't just gullible and stupid, they are dangerous too. Many want to take out President Obama. I fear for his life every since he decided to run.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
lousgirl84
November 19, 2009 1:38 PM in reply to DownriverDem
I agree and we need to stand firm behind our president instead of ripping him apart on everything. I agree that keeping pressure on him is good, but not ripping him apart on an issue we don't necessarily agree with him on.
He is IMO doing a fantasic job considering the hand he was dealt. If anyone asks what he's done give them the following list (and I am sure there are more)
Obama accomplishments
Signed on October 28, 2009
Hate Crimes Bill
Signed on October 28, 2009
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010
Signed on October 22, 2009
Veterans Health Care Budget Reform and Transparency Act
#
Signed on August 06, 2009
Cash For Clunkers Extension
#
Signed on June 22, 2009
Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act
#
Signed on May 22, 2009
Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure (CARD) Act of 2009
#
Signed on May 22, 2009
Weapons Systems Acquisition Reform Act
#
Signed on May 20, 2009
Helping Families Save Their Homes Act
#
Signed on May 20, 2009
Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act
#
Signed on April 21, 2009
Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act
#
Signed on March 30, 2009
Omnibus Public Lands Management Act
Signed on March 20, 2009
Small Business Act Temporary Extension
Signed on February 17, 2009
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act
*
Signed on February 11, 2009
DTV Delay Act
Signed on February 04, 2009
Children’s Health Insurance Reauthorization Act
*
Signed on January 29, 2009
Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act
Anbd don't forget getting health insurance reform
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
jenesq
November 19, 2009 3:03 PM in reply to lousgirl84
Damn straight. Heck, my parents were disgruntled Hillary supporters (who still voted for Obama--they weren't deranged!) and they are now rock-solid behind Obama. They think he is more impressive every day. That's the view from "slightly left of center middle America." Or maybe I should call them "non-wingnut middle America."
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
bobzaguy
November 20, 2009 1:57 PM in reply to jenesq
"That's the view from 'slightly left of center middle America.' Or maybe I should call them 'non-wingnut middle America.'"
I agree with you here a lot.
I say we are the "Un-winged Middle Americans".
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Odel Roo
November 19, 2009 6:02 PM in reply to lousgirl84
Don't forget the Nobel.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Aslanleon
November 20, 2009 11:58 AM in reply to Odel Roo
Tell us again what he got it for. I must have forgotten.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JNagarya
November 20, 2009 4:44 PM in reply to Aslanleon
He asked that question as well. Care to try criticizing him without forgetting to remember relevant facts?
He was awarded it for the promise he represents.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
rwc
November 19, 2009 3:24 PM in reply to bluestatedon
That's been my fear for years. I really feel our nation is a lot closer to fascism than most think.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
jenesq
November 19, 2009 5:57 PM in reply to rwc
Nah, I think we just have a disproportionately vocal minority of crazies whose voices are amplified by the echo chamber of the internet. The number of crazy people hasn't changed--only the ability to get their crazy out in front has changed.
Case in point: the FOX poll showing that only 26% of Americans thought Obama's bow in Japan was inappropriate...that's the same lunatic fringe 26% who loved George Bush. Screw them...we give them way too much attention.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
RKT
November 20, 2009 10:00 AM in reply to jenesq
Agreed with a caveat. It is unsettling how increasingly uninformed the general population is. I suspect far too many, even many who consider themselves well-grounded, cast votes on the basis of the last television commercial they saw while heading out the door on the way to the polling booth. The danger there is not so much the right-wing crazies as the shifting balance of power toward corporations and wealthy special interests.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
neesy08
November 19, 2009 12:51 PM
as oppose to the supreme court stealing from al gore? they did not have a problem with that from what i reall. i was told to "get over it!""
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Moloko+
November 19, 2009 1:05 PM in reply to neesy08
The psychology for Republicans is to constantly bitch and scream bloody murder over every single issue. It is meant to desensitize us. I think it is an implementation of the shock doctrine.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Odel Roo
November 19, 2009 6:10 PM in reply to Moloko+
I think you can apply that equally to both parties.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
hollywood
November 19, 2009 7:44 PM in reply to Odel Roo
Bullshit. I get so tired of that stupid equivalency argument. You sound like Palin arguing that FACT CHECKING is the same as attacking and smearing. Ideology and Faith do not trump FACTS. You can believe what you want but that does not make you correct. FACTS make you correct. Lies and bullshit make you a liar and a bullshitter.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Odel Roo
November 19, 2009 9:29 PM in reply to hollywood
Really??? Are you that f'g blind you can't accept the fact that both parties play the same f'ing games??? really?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
OhioMan
November 20, 2009 8:43 AM in reply to Odel Roo
Oh come on. republicans lie, cheat and steal MUCH more than Democrats. Anyone with eyes can see that.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Odel Roo
November 20, 2009 8:58 AM in reply to OhioMan
I could really give a rats ass as to who you may beleive is worse... that fact that they are both f'g us over for either their own egos or that of their party is shared trait of both parties and rampant.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JNagarya
November 20, 2009 4:48 PM in reply to Odel Roo
Thank you for not voting.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
CMiner
November 19, 2009 12:53 PM
They think this because that's what they'd do -- steal the election. Oh wait . . . they did.
In their minds, no one wins honestly and politics is always dirty. That's how they operate.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
DownriverDem
November 19, 2009 1:03 PM in reply to CMiner
In their minds you have to be white and a religious nut cake.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
rwc
November 19, 2009 3:32 PM in reply to CMiner
the rightwingers always project their own plots and paranoia onto whomever opposes them.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JNagarya
November 20, 2009 4:56 PM in reply to rwc
It's their justification for doing it themselves.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
arugulachomper
November 19, 2009 12:53 PM
Isn't this the majority that thought Obama either DEFINITELY was or MIGHT BE the Anti-Christ?
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/new-jersey-poll-birthers-truthers-and-the-anti-christ----oh-my.php
I think the real reason we're seeing polls shake out like this is that fewer and fewer people are self-identifying as Republicans. Palin and Company have chased all but the most stalwart nutjobs out of the GOP with their various teabagging hijinks, and as the GOP continues to embrace the crazy, people are defecting in droves - either going to the Democrats or (more likely) identifying themselves as independents instead.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Schmed
November 19, 2009 1:03 PM in reply to arugulachomper
Yup. Party purity = purely crazy.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
pppwww
November 19, 2009 12:55 PM
just a refresher on the numbers: obama had 9.5 million more votes, 7 more percentage points, and 192 more electoral votes than mccain.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
lyleleander
November 19, 2009 1:34 PM in reply to pppwww
Yeah, but in their minds, Acorn didn't just manipulate ALL blacks to vote for Obama (which was a given in the first place), but that they crossed ranks and hypnotized/induced/manipulated whites to vote for him too.
Who knows how they did it, voodoo, bribery, threats of violence, vote-maching rigging, etc...
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Odel Roo
November 19, 2009 6:12 PM in reply to lyleleander
I KNEW IT!!!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JEP07
November 20, 2009 10:44 AM in reply to Odel Roo
Does ACORN own Diebold shares?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JNagarya
November 23, 2009 9:18 AM in reply to lyleleander
ACORN also counted the votes nationally, and had a majority of undergraduates in the Electoral College. It's that damned affirmative action again!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Winston Smith
November 19, 2009 12:58 PM
No doubt. I also believe that ACORN was behind manipulating the GOP into nominating one of the stupidest people in politics for the party's presidential candidate and then pairing him with a laughable, empty-headed, completely uninformed, provincial, bigoted ideologue as VP candidate. Wow. ACORN has executed a far-reaching plot. Bravo.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
mcrose68
November 19, 2009 12:59 PM
It's not so much insanity as wishful thinking.
The people who make up the current GOP base wish they lived in a different world. And the easiest way for people to remain at peace when they are so conflicted is to talk like they live in a different world.
In his heart of hearts Gov Sanford knows he wasn't hiking the Appalachian Trail, and Larry Craig knows he likes sex with dudes so much that he's willing to do it with annonymous men in bathrooms. But denying the objective truth is their own little protest against the reality which they wish wasn't true.
People do it all the time :
I wasn't speeding, the cop lied.
I didn't eat the ice cream.
Someone didn't bring a map.
I think the best thing to do when you hear people say this kind of thing is pat them on they head, and say "there there. it'll be alright."
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Schmed
November 19, 2009 1:12 PM in reply to mcrose68
Your approach disregards the fact that a lot of these people are heavily armed. I don't relish patting them on the head when they're in one of their moods....
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
mcrose68
November 25, 2009 1:44 PM in reply to Schmed
I never claimed to have the best judgement.
Thanks for the reminder.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
traitorjoe
November 19, 2009 12:59 PM
The Republicans blaming on their problems on African-Americans and Acorn is like the Nazis blaming all their problems on the Jews.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Peter Principle
November 19, 2009 12:59 PM
It's not cool being trapped in the same country with 20 or 30 million cult members.
Just ask the Germans. (the non-crazy ones, I mean)
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
lousgirl84
November 19, 2009 1:34 PM in reply to Peter Principle
I am definitely getting tired of sharing the planet with these folks. Europeans must be shaking their heads.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
hollywood
November 19, 2009 7:50 PM in reply to lousgirl84
I agree. After we reelected Bush I think the whole world gets how many stupid fucks live in America. Now after our half-assed healthcare "debate" I think we look like the biggest bunch of morons ever. We can spend trillions of dollars on tax cuts for rich people and stupid wars but cannot imagine how we will pay for simple lifesaving healthcare. As a country we are complete ass-backward idiots.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
OhioMan
November 20, 2009 8:49 AM in reply to hollywood
I am so embarrassed for my country that we would not just harbor these disturbed, ignorant, angry fools, not just give them a megaplatform on cable TV to spew their foul bile, but actually ELECT some of the very worst of them to positions of leadership!
People in other countries must hear the words of Palin, Foxx, Bachmann, Beck, and the rest of the asinine right-wing lunatic fringe and think "What on earth is wrong with Americans?" I hope our overseas friends realize that most of us here are still sane and that we look at these people with the same disgust and bewilderment that they do.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JEP07
November 20, 2009 9:35 AM in reply to OhioMan
Don't we wish fer'ners even mattered to the wingnuts...
Even their fellow countrymen are considered outsiders in their ethnically encapsulated prejudices.
Early childhood education, to counter that KKK uncle's drunken epithets, is the only answer.
After about 5 years old, if they don't get any alternative attitudes from adults around them, children become carbon copies of the loudest ignoramuses surrounding them.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
RKT
November 20, 2009 10:04 AM in reply to lousgirl84
Europeans threw in the towel on the U.S. when Bush was reelected.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
SP
November 19, 2009 1:00 PM
Well, their formulation is ACORN = blacks, black people voted overwhelmingly for Obama, therefore ACORN stole the election. As we've heard in several formulations (ie, "If you leave out minority votes...," "Among white voters...") if you're not white your vote doesn't really count.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
eve cairo
November 19, 2009 1:00 PM
Actually the conclusion and what the poll asks are two different things. They were asked specifically if they thought ACORN stole it so being suggestible histrionic types they said yes. If the question had asked if they thought men from Pluto helped him steal it they would have said yes to that too. This is a really unbalanced group. So the conclusion that they thought ACORN stole it doesn't bear up. They will answer to anything anyone poses to them that's insane.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
commie atheist
November 19, 2009 1:05 PM in reply to eve cairo
Q: Is Obama a black muslim socialist Kenyan who is bent on destroying America?
Yes: 52%
No: 30%
Not Sure: 18%
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
mans_best_friend
November 19, 2009 1:18 PM in reply to commie atheist
I'm not sure which puzzles me more, the ones who answer Yes or the ones who aren't sure.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
commie atheist
November 19, 2009 2:03 PM in reply to mans_best_friend
The "not sures" are keeping an open mind.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
cheesenstein
November 19, 2009 1:01 PM
I think this says more about the whackadoodle nature of who's left in the GOP than it does about the majority of non-Democratic folks.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
arugulachomper
November 19, 2009 1:04 PM in reply to cheesenstein
Agreed. And stealing the word "whackadoodle".
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Schmed
November 19, 2009 1:14 PM in reply to arugulachomper
Can't have it. That's Rachel's word.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
mgmonklewis
November 19, 2009 1:30 PM in reply to Schmed
I think Randi Rhodes used it first, but I have no timeline available to check. :-D
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
RuperttheBear
November 19, 2009 1:01 PM
I'm not astonished at all.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Peter Principle
November 19, 2009 1:10 PM
I would love to see some pollster ask people whether they would support a military coup to eject Obama from the White House -- like that nut case at World Nut Daily was advocating a few months back.
Given their world view, how many self-proclaimed Republicans do you think would say yes? 40%? 50%? More?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
lyleleander
November 19, 2009 1:24 PM in reply to Peter Principle
Well, if you start with the assumption that a near majority don't even think he's legally president, I'd imagine you'd probably get pretty near 50% without even trying.
Start going towards areas of the party that are somewhat sane, and you maybe see a peeling off of support. But yeah, I think if it were up to the GOP base, they would see nothing wrong with a military coup.
As evidence, look forward to the meme that he is working against America when he 'Doesn't listen to the Generals!'. As if, you know, Commander in Chief means nothing, and the Generals outrank him in superiority.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
bobzaguy
November 20, 2009 2:20 PM in reply to Peter Principle
"Given their world view, how many self-proclaimed Republicans do you think would say yes? 40%? 50%? More?"
So if 25% of voters are Rep., what's the actual numbers here?
125,225,901 election votes x .25 = 31,306,500
31,306,500 self-claimed republican
93,919,401 democrat
So 50% of 31 million is just 15+ million in a population of ±330 million.
I think this is what's scaring the Repubs so much, they aren't anywhere near close to a majority and they can't stand it.
They want to cry and go home, but they have to stay in the sandbox and play the game. And they know they can't win so they start kicking sand back in a little hissy fit.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
CVille Dem
November 19, 2009 1:14 PM
Does anyone else think that the poll was inflammatory?
Why even have an option like that?
I'll bet that if the option was "Do you think Barack Obama won the election because he was black" that would also get high numbers.
These polls are stupid and they just suggest stuff to people who haven't had an original thought in their head since they were potty trained. They probably would pick CREMORA over cream in the coffee test as well. Why? because they don't know what cream tastes like and they are used to the powdered shit they throw into their morning joe.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
A Missouri voter
November 19, 2009 1:22 PM in reply to CVille Dem
Good point. One has to wonder what percentage of those polled simply hung up after hearing the question, thinking that the whole thing was just a bad joke.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
ptullis
November 19, 2009 1:16 PM
Disturbing, but the sample is skewed. 53% voted for Obama's opponents. Obama WON by 53%.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
GayIthacan
November 19, 2009 1:21 PM in reply to ptullis
I think you mean Obama WON 53% of the Popular vote - NOT that he 'won by 53%".
He won by 7% (or, to be completely accurate, a change of 3.5% of the vote from Obama to McCain would have resulted in a 49.5% - 49.5% tie.
To "win by 53%", Obama would have had to win over 76% of the Popular vote.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Clavis
November 19, 2009 1:16 PM
"Is next... SVIMVEAR!!! WERY NICE!!!" Remember that ad?
This goes beyond Colbert's "truthiness". Republicans who say they "believe" ACORN stole the election are not expressing a rational, empirical belief. They are expressing a feeling that makes them feel good.
Remember that Wendy's ad with the "Soviet Fashion Show"? All the outfits were identical grey smocks, and the announcer kept calling them different things? Did we really think that was how life in the Soviet Union was? Or was it simply jingoism? Did we simply get a thrill from not just poking fun at the Soviets, but sort of allowing ourselves to live in a fairy-tale bubble where we could feel good about how much better America was, and even if the USSR wasn't quite THAT bad, it was, you know, more or less, close enough... hey, what are you, some kind of Commie sympathizer?
In other words, the people who answered "YES" weren't suggesting that they had good evidence -- although I have no doubt that SOME of them *were* just expressing a legitimate belief -- rather, they were expressing a sentiment. They were expressing their allegience to an idea, and the very notion of logically figuring out whether it was factually so or not is not even part of how they process the world.
I suspect this is what religious faith is for many people -- they don't think logically that their religion is correct; rather, they have an emotional allegiance to their faith. It's an authoritarian thing where you emotionally give authority for the whole operation over to someone else.
Why do I "believe" that ACORN stole the election? Because Glenn Beck made me FEEL that way, and my allegiance is to him.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
fpie
November 19, 2009 3:34 PM in reply to Clavis
Well just get all rational an' stuff when we all know in our hearts that those dim-bulbs are all F-ed up. So just get on the bus will ya?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
traitorjoe
November 19, 2009 1:17 PM
I think the poll represents how these folks really feel. A friend on FB argued against my post claiming Bill-O and Dobbs were insane by suggesting Obama was the devil. After claiming Bill-O never said it, I showed him the video. His response? "I've also asked myself that question."
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
bvd
November 19, 2009 1:19 PM
I don't see a breakdown of those polled, it just says "registered voters." Am I missing it? What percentage are Repub vs Dem vs Indy? What ages? What races? What states? Without some idea of who's being asked the questions the poll is meaningless.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
progressive_buckeye
November 19, 2009 1:22 PM
"Whites" (whatever that really means), and more specifically white males, are becoming a plurality in this country and losing their hold on positions of power. The only way to attempt to maintain power is to legitimize all other groups in an attempt to make the argument "they" are still the ones deserving of said power.
IMO, opinion, this is truly why conservatives yearn for the '50s; it's not the slower pace of life but that otehr groups "knew their place".
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
RKT
November 20, 2009 10:09 AM in reply to progressive_buckeye
I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!! (replete with tears and misery).
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
MrSmith1
November 19, 2009 1:23 PM
I'm not surprised. I think the Repugs are like that rogue computer on the first Star Trek series, that couldn't accept that it was capable of error, so when Kirk confronted it with it's mistakes, it short-circuited.
Republicans were so confident that they had all the answers, and then they got elected and controlled all branches of government, and all their ideas failed, because, well, they were all lousy ideas.
But, since they believe their ideas are incapable of being lousy, there must be some other explanation for the mess their ideas created and the fact that the electorate repudiated the GOP at the polls.
A vast Acorn conspiracy is about the only explanation they've got left, so they're going to run with it.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
lyleleander
November 19, 2009 1:28 PM
Just like 'He's a Kenyan!' replaced 'He's a Nig*er!' in the modern Republican lexicon due to electoral and imagie concerns, so to has 'Acorn stole the Election!' has replaced 'Nig%ers stole the election/Are Ruining the Country/Are Depurifying society!'.
Just as long as the rabid base doesn't have to think to long to determine what's really being said, it's the same thing.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
traitorjoe
November 19, 2009 1:36 PM in reply to lyleleander
100% true. They will keep floating crazier theories, each one more racist and paranoid than the next, to justify their sick world view. They failed when their heroes were in power for 8 years now they have to defend their total lack of competence and moral judgment.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?