TPMDC
Senate Dems Will Force Republicans To Debate Long Hours If They Obstruct
Christina Bellantoni | November 16, 2009, 12:36PM
Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA)
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The health care debate will be restarted in earnest tomorrow as Senate Democrats expect the Congressional Budget Office to score their version of the bill, which includes the opt-out public option.
But Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA) today on a radio show laid out a schedule that would put the bill on Obama's desk in January, another delay.
Harkin was not very optimistic about the timing of final passage, saying on the "Bill Press Radio Show" the Senate would need to work every weekend in December to pass the bill by Christmas, according to The Hill.
As TPM reported yesterday, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has no qualms forcing a delay.
Harkin, chairman of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, said Democrats have mischief planned for the Republicans if they do that type of obstruction.
"If the Republicans want to stay here this Saturday and Sunday to read the bill, then let them stay here," he said. "We are planning to do something that would require Republicans to be there 24 hours a day, and if they leave the floor, we'll ask unanimous consent to dispense with the reading, and that'll be the end of it."
Harkin said he anticipates the score will be out tomorrow when the chamber returns for votes and party lunches. It's been more than a week since the House narrowly passed its bill.
Amendments won't start until after Thanksgiving, he said.
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VivaAmerica!
November 16, 2009 12:43 PM
Not done by Christmas? Then sign it on January 20, 2010 - 1 year from his inauguration - and make a really in-your-face big deal about it.
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freaktown
November 16, 2009 12:47 PM
oh noes! we wouldn't want senators to have to work on weekends!! the horror, the horror...
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matyra
November 16, 2009 1:21 PM in reply to freaktown
seriously.
(love the Conrad ref)
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Overreach THIS!
November 16, 2009 3:12 PM in reply to freaktown
Yeah, you're right, it's just unthinkable. Here they spent all of August befouling the process, and just for that, now they'd be asked to work some weekends. Unthinkable. How many weekends are there in December BTW? 25 or 30? Or is it fewer than that?
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Darrius
November 16, 2009 12:48 PM
Sign it this year if they need to work every weekend around the clock in order to get that done then they should do that.
The can not be too stupid to know that any delay into next year exponentially increases the chances that the bill will die altogether.
WHAT IS THE DEADLINE FOR A RECONCILIATION BILL? IS THERE A DEADLINE AT ALL?
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calchala
November 16, 2009 1:00 PM in reply to Darrius
Reconciliation would be worse. There's going to be hundreds of amendments in this bill just for debate because dems can't agree to a set time limit. If there's hundreds of amendments for normal debate, for reconciliation there could well be a thousand. Can you guarantee all the dems will stick together through EVERY SINGLE ONE? I sure can't.
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jdb316
November 16, 2009 1:02 PM in reply to Darrius
Don't make the mistake of thinking reconcilliation will solve everything. It won't. It's a last resort option if there is absolutely no other way to get this done, but it presents two very big potential downsides:
1. All of the elements passed via reconcilliation must be re-authorized after five years - ie, in 2015. There is a distinct possibility (even perhaps a likelihood) that the Republicans will control the Senate at that point. If they do, they'll let the reconcilliation provisions die, and HCR will be dead before it's even had a chance to work.
2. If this gets passed via reconcilliation, the Republicans have even more ammo going into 2010 and 2012. If it even REMOTELY fails to accomplish what the Dems promise, they'll be toast in both of those elections.
In other words, the Dems should think VERY carefully before going this route, and only do so if there is absolutely no other choice.
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Beetlejuice
November 16, 2009 2:06 PM in reply to jdb316
The current bill in Congress is so full of republican implanted IED's to cripple it if it is signed into law, they have yet to complain when some democrats floated out the possibility of using the reconciliation process to skirt around them. They have more faith in their political bombs killing it than regaining political power just to kill it later.
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Icon
November 16, 2009 1:22 PM in reply to Darrius
> WHAT IS THE DEADLINE FOR A RECONCILIATION BILL? IS THERE A DEADLINE AT ALL?
Reconciliation is not a viable solution unless they fire the parliamentarian and hire someone who will support the party line in every way. (Rep. Grayson, anyone?)
Assuming they don't want to grossly manipulate the procedure, the only options for passing the bill in spite of a Republican filibuster are:
1. Forcing the Republicans to filibuster until they cannot filibuster anymore. Senators can only speak twice on a legislative day, so if the Senate is kept in session without adjourning (either by recessing or just keeping the Senate in session 24/7) eventually the filibustering senators will run out of speaking opportunities and a final vote will be called.
2. The nuclear option, which is completely legitimate in terms of parliamentary procedure, but goes against existing Senate parliamentary precedent.
It really bothers me that anyone in the Democratic party thinks reconciliation is really a viable option. Reconciliation will poke so many gaping holes in the health care bill that it probably won't do much of anything.
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Rick
November 16, 2009 7:10 PM in reply to Icon
What is this "Republican filibuster" you talk of? Have the rules of the Senate changed recently?
I'm fairly certain that 40 votes don't suffice to sustain a filibuster.
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Icon
November 17, 2009 6:25 AM in reply to Rick
Lieberman's status as a democrat is increasingly in doubt. Nelson, Landrieu, Lincoln, et al. seem committed to scuttling the bill in order to do what they think will appease their constituents. The fact that their constituents don't want the bill scuttled is why the above fail at politics.
But 40 Republicans who fail at politics plus 5 Dems that fail at politics equals 45 idiot Senators who will filibuster a bill.
The math does make a lot of sense, really.
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Indie Pro
November 16, 2009 12:57 PM
Meh. The Senate rules make it too easy. It doesn't take much, and organizing 24/7 isn't that hard. Didn't they all ready try this a couple years ago and it didn't work.
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Indie Pro
November 16, 2009 1:01 PM in reply to Indie Pro
oh, "reading only", not filibuster.
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CT Voter
November 16, 2009 1:30 PM
If the Republicans want to stay here this Saturday and Sunday to read the bill, then let them stay here,"
Yes indeedy. The Republicans bank on Democrats being civil, and not disturbing the gentlemanly atmosphere. Well, make them pay for it.
Less faux town hall outrage for the media to amplify if they're all stuck in DC.
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FreeRider
November 16, 2009 1:39 PM
"We're going to be going long days — I've already talked to Leader Reid about this — long nights, weekends — constantly, from then until right before Christmas, when I think we'll have the votes, hopefully, to pass the bill," he said.
Christmas is in December, not January.
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
November 16, 2009 3:22 PM in reply to FreeRider
After the Senate passes a bill, it still hast to go through conference and be voted on again in both houses.
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Juble
November 16, 2009 1:54 PM
Please Tom Harkin,you are one of the best Senators.Don't embarass yourself like this.
Folks when I see it I will believe it.Harry Reid don't have the spine to stick to his guns.Remember "keep our powder dry Harry",yeah! that same one.
This is an empty bluster folks.Ask yourselves Is Joe Lieberman,still chairman of HS committe ?That's why it an empty bluster.
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mjshep
November 16, 2009 2:14 PM in reply to Juble
Yes, because Lieberman has not yet voted to filibuster, or against cloture. Until he does, all his usual bluster aside, he keeps his perks. It's the only leverage Reid has over him.
If, and when, he votes against cloture, the hammer will come down. Not before.
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unknowncitizen
November 16, 2009 2:00 PM
Allowing obstructionism to be seen and not heard up to this point may turn out to have been a pretty decent strategy. The last thing older people not generally interested in politics remember about obstructionism is the GOP shut down of government after the whole contract on America fiasco. That back fired on Republicans. The question is what will be Republicans plan B be if they start taking a beating in public opinion when the filabuster gets going. I don't think they have one. They've already trotted out comparisons to Hitler and concentration camps. They'd need some slam dunk non-partisan study debunking the very basics of the CBO scoring of the bill (they are already trotting out dubious ones of these now as fast as they can to no avail)
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bluestatedon
November 16, 2009 2:11 PM
This is just more empty and meaningless tough gum-flapping from flaccid Dem politicians for their constituents back home. Harkin may be less flaccid than many of them, but remember, this is a party that didn't have the balls to call Joe Lieberman to account for endorsing McCain. When you've got the Washington Monument to flaccidity, Harry Reid, in charge of things on the Senate floor, you can be sure that the GOP will outmaneuver and out-think the Dems without having to break a sweat.
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Michael A
November 16, 2009 2:26 PM
This should have been done months ago and this damn bill should have been signed in September. The dithering is incredibly frustrating. They will be dithering about this through next September and nothing else will get done. Pathetic.
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wbgonne
November 16, 2009 2:50 PM
"Senate Dems Will Force Republicans To Debate Long Hours If They Obstruct"
I'll believe it when I see it.
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masanf
November 16, 2009 2:58 PM
This entire discussion will become a moot point when every Republican and Joe Lieberman filibuster it. This bill has no chance of passing.
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Minnesotan
November 16, 2009 3:06 PM
A lot of folks here need to calm down. This is a bill that will reform an industry that impacts 1/6 of the American economy. It touches tons of hot-button issues (wealth inequality, abortion, immigration) and is being fought at every second on every level. This bill would be bigger than any legislation Bush and the GOP-led Congress passed before in terms of sheer size and scale, and in terms of impact may be the biggest we've seen in a generation. Yet, we have a bill passed in the House, has been through every committee in the Senate, and is on the verge of getting through to the President's desk in the next few months. Oh, and we passed a freaking stimulus before we even got to this piece of legislation. So all of those complaining about "dithering" or "lacking spine" should stfu as this crew has gone a hell of a lot farther than anyone before them despite facing an opposition that is far nastier than ever before (the town halls make the Harry and Louise ads tame by comparison).
As an ex-Hill staffer, I'm tired of folks on the left who know nothing of how the legislative process works bitch endlessly about Democrats and devalue the countless hours worked by so many people (and ex-colleagues of mine) to get this done. Major legislation takes a long time to get done. Legislation that is once-in-a-generation big takes even longer. You folks act as though this stuff can be made overnight. My only critique of the process thus far has been that Obama has set too ambitious a timeline, but I feel he had to do that as activists would have been otherwise discouraged if they were told it would take 8 months. Harkin is laying out a good ground game to stop the delays, we should be applauding this move. Hold their feet to the fire, but have some patience and appreciation for what's been accomplished thus far.
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gonzo
November 16, 2009 3:53 PM in reply to Minnesotan
As a fellow ex-Hill staffer, co-sign.
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WaitWut?
November 16, 2009 3:58 PM in reply to Minnesotan
AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! This is what I've been telling everyone for months!
We're closer than we ever have been. This is not the time to start complaining about an extra few weeks or a month. Let's just keep letting them know we appreciate all they're doing and to not give up!
As far as Pres. Obama having too ambitious a deadline...it's working. If he had gone about it as calmly as others had before him, the Right would just ignore it hoping it would just go away. Pres. Obama made it a "do or die" situation and wouldn't let up. The timing, no fault of his own, wasn't the greatest, but if he had waited it would have failed. Catching the Republicans off guard was a strategic move. It may have dropped his approval rating, but who cares? He got them running in circles making ridiculous accusations and claims which, in turn, cut their own popularity by around 10% (you'll have to fact-check that number...my memory isn't the greatest). Now that they’ve finally begun to get themselves together, it’s really too late. Now all they have are empty threats. I’m more concerned about my own damned party!! Can we somehow get Democrats on the same page...ever...ever...please?
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Minnesotan
November 16, 2009 4:14 PM in reply to WaitWut?
Exactly. I know a lot of folks ask why we don't let the GOP filibuster every time, and the problem would be that it would literally grind all Senate business to ta halt. No one would win in that situation, but the majority party would be held more at fault for letting it get so much out of hand.
The Harkin strategy is good PR though and it has historical precedent. When the Civil Rights Act was moving through the Senate Strom Thurmond filibustered for hours on end, but it pushed through eventually. I think forcing the GOP to be there at all hours and to essentially shut down the government would have a similar effect as it did in the 1990's. We're almost there, we just have to keep pushing!
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wbgonne
November 16, 2009 3:58 PM in reply to Minnesotan
There is a Democratic president recently elected by a wide margin, a huge majority for the Dems in the House, and a filibuster-proof Dem majority in the Senate. Please stop whining about the travails of the Democratic party. Get it done or go away.
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lousgirl84
November 16, 2009 4:03 PM in reply to Minnesotan
Best post ever. Thank you!!!
Get a grip folks and stop whining.
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The Old Grouch
November 16, 2009 4:35 PM in reply to Minnesotan
Co-sign, with extreme prejudice.
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phoogoo
November 16, 2009 3:09 PM
This is something I've been wondering about for a long time. Why don't the dems do this EVERY time the rethugs filibuster. When the Dems threatened to filibuster even once the GOP forced them to do the same while they got in front of every camera they could chanting "onstructionist" and "up or down vote".
The GOP has filibustered something like 50 times since the dems took control. Why dont we force them to do the same thing? Instead the conventional wisdom is that you cant pass any legislation without 60 votes.
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
November 16, 2009 3:42 PM in reply to phoogoo
This isn't a filibuster. This is a threat to refuse to waive reading of the bill.
Turns out that whole Sen. Stackhouse on West Wing/Mr. Smith Goes to Washington stand and talk 24/7 thing is a Hollywood myth. The times it's happened, it's been deliberate grandstanding, not a necessity under the rules--at least that's the way it's been since the 70s.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/23/the-myth-of-the-filibuste_n_169117.html
See the problem? They don't have to hold the floor and talk. They would only need to keep a couple of Senators on the floor at any given time (so they could go to the can safely) but the Democrats would have to have their 50 votes (plus Joe Biden) on tap and ready to roll each time they tried to move to a vote.
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Spiffarino
November 16, 2009 4:34 PM
When Reid loses his Senate Seat next year, Harkin should become Majority Leader. He's a tough old bird and I think he'd get a lot of support.
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ohyeathatsright
November 16, 2009 5:24 PM
The Senate will do what the Senate does best. Stall and grandstand. They can keep this up all day people.
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USgreentech
November 16, 2009 7:00 PM
go all in
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Joe
November 17, 2009 7:44 AM
Tom, I'll believe it when I see it, but based on the Democratic track record, I expect more of the same ineptitude I've come to expect from them.
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