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Biden On Lieberman: 'I'm Confident Joe Is Going To See The Light'
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Vice President Joe Biden says he's confident Sen. Joe Lieberman will come around, but says everyone is engaging in "gamesmanship" to get the maximum leverage from the bill.
Today Biden appeared on MSNBC's "Morning Joe," defending his old Senate colleague as "a great guy."
But Biden said "honest to god" he doesn't know what is up with Lieberman (I-CT), whose opposition to elements of the health care bill has put Democrats in a major jam. But he added he learned from his own senate service, "never question another man's motive, question his judgment."
"I think Joe's judgment is wrong on this," Biden said.
But Biden explained it's just politics he's seen many times on major legislation.
"Everybody figures their maximum point of leverage is right before the deal is made so you've got everybody lining up out there saying, 'If I'm just willing to hold out now I'll get everything I want,'" he said.
Former Congressman Joe Scarborough noted that Lieberman has flip-flopped on health care, and Biden laughed, "If we held flip flops against everybody in the Congress we probably wouldn't have many people there."
But ultimately, he said, "I'm confident Joe is going to see the light" and vote for the final bill.
"There's an awful lot of gamesmanship going on right now," Biden said. "Any Democrat who decides for their own shallow purposes, if that were the case, to scuttle this is ... not going to have a friend in the lord."
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wbgonne
December 15, 2009 9:00 AM
'I'm Confident Joe Is Going To See The Light'
Hopefully, it will the light of an oncoming train. Or a bus. I'm not picky.
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Minne sconsin
December 15, 2009 9:06 AM in reply to wbgonne
The light behind a very big man with a dentist's drill, standing over Joe seated in a chair. Think Marathon Man.
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wbgonne
December 15, 2009 9:19 AM in reply to Minne sconsin
That works.
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Catsy
December 15, 2009 12:36 PM in reply to Minne sconsin
Make that Orly Taitz with a dentist's drill, and you've got a deal.
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dougom
December 15, 2009 8:32 PM in reply to wbgonne
Naw; I'd like a train. We don't torture, remember?
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Progressive Party
December 15, 2009 9:02 AM
another 123 die today!
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wbgonne
December 15, 2009 9:09 AM
BTW: So the Dems are going to mandate health insurance without the cost containment of the public option. What is the likely impact? Costs continue to skyrocket and probably accelerate due to the enforced enrollment. Government mandates and higher costs. That should play well politically. I'm sure the Republicans won't notice.
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Minne sconsin
December 15, 2009 9:11 AM
Really, I hope that this means that Joe Biden is going to pull Traitor Joe aside and, as a friend, tell him just how badly he's gonna get fucked by his colleagues for the rest of this term.
Make Traitor Joe a political offer he cannot refuse, something a little stronger than the Sharply Worded Letter.
I'll not be holding my breath waiting for this to happen.
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Elizabeth2
December 15, 2009 9:40 AM in reply to Minne sconsin
I have no doubt that it *would* happen (VP has to be careful about treading on toes of Congressional leaders but in this case I'm sure they would *welcome* his intervention!) but ..... it's pretty apparent that Joe L. does not intend to run for office, ever again, AND he's done a pretty thorough job of alienating his colleagues (those that remained after his actions during the presidential campaign), so there is very little leverage.
For those who know Biden and his style, the comment about anyone deciding "for their own shallow purposes" to scuttle HCR is both a strong condemnation and a frustrated sign that he doesn't have the power to twist that particular arm. IMO, Lieberman is angry and unprincipled ... and puckish: he's enjoying this and really doesn't give a damn about the consequences.
PRAYING that once this is over, the leadership will kick him out of the Dem. caucus (and any chairmanship) and acknowledge that they are operating with a 59-vote majority. They would be a lot better off now if they'd known from the beginning not to count on Lieberman. Hope he enjoys this moment in the spotlight, because no one - on either side - is going to trust him or try to win his vote in the future.
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agio
December 15, 2009 11:15 AM in reply to Elizabeth2
There may be power in prayer, but I wouldn't place too much faith on this happening.
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Elizabeth2
December 15, 2009 12:18 PM in reply to agio
Yeah -- just read the new headline post. Damn the 'practical realities' But while we're assigning blame, I think we should spare some for the Republicans. If they didn't have their rigid, lock-step, no-deviation-allowed mentality, Joe L. wouldn't be at all important. Just one or two statesmen....
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Mateo123
December 15, 2009 9:16 AM
What light is he going to see? The individual mandate light with no public option? Great. Sounds like a recipe for Republican control.
How people cannot see through Benedict Arnold is beyond me.
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Middle Road
December 15, 2009 9:21 AM
He can see the light whenever he wants, but I think our concern is, what else is going to be sacrificed to nudge him towards the light?
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Hussein Stemper
December 15, 2009 9:23 AM
I loves me some Joe Biden!
He is a decent man.
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Walter Mitty
December 15, 2009 9:31 AM in reply to Hussein Stemper
Why because he kisses Liberscum's ass while Lieberscum sells out Democrats because of some personal vendetta and the side effect of pleasing his corporate masters that innocently employ his wife?
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CityGuy
December 15, 2009 10:18 AM in reply to Walter Mitty
You're spot on about LIEberman. But Joe Biden is doing the best job possible in a difficult situation. I supported Obama from Day One in the primaries. But I thank God that Biden is exactly where he needs to be right now!
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Walter Mitty
December 15, 2009 9:25 AM
Let me do it then - Lieberscum is a bought-and-paid-for vindictive little prick. Look at the health insurance stocks shoot up on the news of Lieberscum's Democratic betrayal. Lieberscum is a pathetic worm and I hope a karmic hammer is ready to fall upon him.
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NJBOOMER
December 15, 2009 9:27 AM
If there is a way to muck up the will of the people for political and corporate interests our US Congress will find it and it will become the holy grail. That the White House is abandoning all campaign promises to fight for real reform and competition to the insurance industry for political bragging rights is astounding and defines the Obama administration for the bait and switch milquetoast crowd they have proved to be. This saddens me because I believed Obama when he said he would bring change to the sewer that is our capital. His change we can believe in has been worse than Bush's compassionate conservatism. Merry Christmas to the insurance industry because the Grinch has visited the rest of us.
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Walter Mitty
December 15, 2009 9:51 AM in reply to NJBOOMER
I think it's more of a case where they know this isn't a political winner for them and they want to move on to financial regulation reforms and immigration before the 2010 elections hit full swing as both of those will be winners for Democrats looking for re-election.
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Middle Road
December 15, 2009 9:29 AM
Funny thing is, apparently the WH thinks there is sufficient time between now and the 2010 elections to soothe "hurt feelings". :)
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wbgonne
December 15, 2009 9:42 AM in reply to Middle Road
You are correct. From the outset that has been the White House calculation: just pass something -- anything -- and declare victory. In a few months all the Independents and Progressives will buy into the Historic Accomplishment. The White House is wrong. This crippled legislation will only make matters worse. With an insurance mandate and no cost controls (public option) the result is inevitable. Insurance premiums continue to skyrocket and people are required to buy insurance. Then what? Do we start putting people in prison for not purchasing health insurance? No. What will happen is that the government will underwrite the premiums. Money going directly from taxpayers to health insurance companies. The deficit ballooning. Costs out of control. Really. It's as if the Democrats are devising a plan for political suicide. Well, this one is hard to beat.
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Viva!America!
December 15, 2009 1:04 PM in reply to Middle Road
And the Left thinks there is sufficient time to kill the bill and start over.
Not only start over, but to go for single payer - with a conservative congress in place.
The Left thinks there will be no backlash for punishing people politically. And I'm not talking backlash from the public.
The Left thinks that if Dems are voted out that the only choice for voters is to go further Left. Guess what? those people have a (D) in front of their names and if voters aren't happy they will move to the right. No, no, the Left doesn't consider the possibility of things NOT going as planned.
The Left thinks that there is enough time to pull a Progressive out of their ass, that has no name recognition and no real record, to run against a conservadem in a red state and WIN.
So you can blast the establishment and the WH, but from what I've seen the Left is just as delusional.
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Tanjaoui
December 15, 2009 9:39 AM
Would love to see Burris or Sanders scuttle this. Or the House in conference.
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destor23
December 15, 2009 9:44 AM
Joe Biden doesn't seem to realize that Joe Lieberman isn't a Democrat.
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septictank
December 15, 2009 9:55 AM
Yeah, Biden's saying what he needs to say, regardless of the unfortunately Jesusey nature of the "friend in the Lord" bit. They've gotten themselves into a situation where they have zero leverage over Lieberman and they've got to kiss his ass if they want a bill through regular order.
Question is: What are they gonna give the left? How do they make this right? Or do they just shrug and whistle themselves off into electoral oblivion?
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JohnW1141
December 15, 2009 10:06 AM
How many times have we seen a Democrat Senator tell us Joe will eventually come around? They have been saying that for months.
Now Biden says; "I'm confident Joe is going to see the light"
Yeah, MAYBE, but if he does see the light it will be after he makes you and the rest ot the Democrats eat shit sandwiches for a month.
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hey norm
December 15, 2009 10:13 AM
well joe has been on both sides of every issue (often at the same time) so he has to be wrong at least half the time.
i say let the bill fail now...pack it up and move on to other things. the bill has been so weakened at this point that it won't matter...and it will hurt the republicans. 2010 will be about obstructionist republicans and independents who are bought and paid for. remember - the majority of people want a health care bill with a public option. polls that show people are against this bill include a huge number of people who are against it because it does not go far enough. when you factor that in public support is clear despite what far-right-fringies want you to believe.
blame the joe and the republicans and move to the next thing.
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traitorjoe
December 15, 2009 10:34 AM
Traitor Joe's Slash and Burn 2009 Tour continues its destructive path across America. Next stop? K-Street where pallets of $1000 bills will be loaded into the bus.
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restore4u
December 15, 2009 10:47 AM
I'm a Type I Diabetic and can't get health care because of my pre-existing condition. I'm facing blindness if I can't get an operation on my eyes. Thanks Joe, you have turned your back on the American public. You are going to go down in history as one of the worst politicians of all time. Vote this guy OUT! AND to any of you supporting old Joe, imagine having to take 5 shots a day in your stomach. I pay $300 out of pocket each month for insulin that the health care companies refuse to make generic or "affordable" because they make so much money from it. I can't afford anything else, and I was laid off from a job because of the economy. I doubt those trying to kill health reform have that to look forward to that each day! WAKE UP AMERICA!
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Buffalo Joe
December 15, 2009 11:38 AM
The failure of a decent health care reform will elect Joe Lieberman as the next republican president, sad to say, but I can feel it.
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lousgirl84
December 15, 2009 2:43 PM in reply to Buffalo Joe
Oh my goodness. That is a stretch if ever I heard one. You cannot be serious?
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Jeronimo Dan
December 15, 2009 11:45 AM
Biden says he doesn't what up with Lieberman...How about Joe's in the pocket of big insurance?
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Jeronimo Dan
December 15, 2009 11:58 AM
How about placing a "KNOW" in there Jeronimo?
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xargaw
December 15, 2009 12:00 PM
So now they send out Biden to attempt to soften the blow. Biden is supposed to make us all feel better. We can't be played anymore. Sending our Biden is insulting. The people got the shaft last night and we know it.
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stevemic
December 15, 2009 12:19 PM
Mr. Vice President -- Here's a news flash: Joe Lieberman is not going to "come around." You and the entire Obama administration (especially Rahm Emanuel) are total enablers when it comes to whatever Joe Lieberman wants.
I am nearly blinded by my outrage at this point.
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lastquarter
December 15, 2009 2:30 PM in reply to stevemic
I'm beyond blinded by outrage. It is obvious what the people want matters not a whit. They seem powerless to stop him & the wingnuts. May this rat be forever remembered as the man who killed Healthcare reform. What a country!
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lousgirl84
December 15, 2009 2:45 PM in reply to lastquarter
You can always move to another country where they have health care
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JefferyK
December 15, 2009 12:38 PM
How much is the health insurance lobby paying Lieberman to do this? Or are they paying his wife instead?
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gharlane
December 16, 2009 12:00 AM
Oh, but remember: He's With Us On Everything Except The War.
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