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Dems To GOP: Obstruct Health Care Debate, And We'll Be Here 'Til Christmas

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Sen. McConnell (R-KY) Sen. Reid (D-NV)

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A fragile gentleman's agreement between Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is breaking down, and now, three days into the health care debate, having held not a single vote on a single amendment, Democrats are saying enough is enough. And if they have to stay in session through Christmas to pass the bill, that's what they'll do.

After an impromptu caucus meeting on health care, Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL) told reporters, "the Republican leadership is stalling us and we have decided that we are going right through Christmas." If it comes to that. "We go through as long as it takes, including Christmas day, if it takes it to pass it."

In response to a question from TPMDC, Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin told reporters, "unless the Republican leadership comes forward with a reasonable approach to these amendments, I think our patience is wearing thin."

"We're just not going to sit here forever and watch this bill go down," he said.

"There was a lot of talk about, if we have to be here Christmas, we'll be here Christmas," said Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA)

Some background is appropriate here.

Going into this week, Reid, and McConnell had agreed to proceed slowly by trading off amendments, first one for the Democrats, then one for the Republicans.

Last night, after a long, full day of debate on these first amendments--including a motion offered by Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) intended to kill the reform bill--Reid said, let's hold a vote tomorrow afternoon, just on these amendments.

McConnell said no.

"I have to object," said the Kentucky Republican. "We have a number of speakers who are interested in speaking on the Medicare issue and the McCain amendment, so I will not be able to lock in the McCain amendment, or the side by side."

Soon thereafter the session adjourned--the Republicans put off their arguments for the night.

"We are now in the third day of debate with no indication from Senate Republicans when we will be voting - even on their own amendments," reads a statement from Reid spokesman Jim Manley. "They have no plan to combat skyrocketing health care costs. They have no plan to stop insurance company abuses. And it shows at they continue to deny and delay any progress."

Currently, Reid and the Democrats are considering their options for moving the debate forward, and actually holding votes. The main possibility being considered is that Reid could move to table irrelevant Republican amendments.

"If we're not allowed to move we're going to have to start tabling amendments," Harkin said.

That could set off a dangerous dynamic, wherein Republicans table Democratic amendments, too, including some amendments (on issues like abortion and the public option) that are key to the rounding up the 60 votes Democrats need to overcome a filibuster and pass the bill.

"Fine, let's start tabling everything then," Harkin said. "I happen to like the bill the way it is."

Without a prefigured agreement, amendments that aren't tabled can be filibustered, which can slow the debate down by days at a time.

Reid has other options at his disposal--he can file cloture on the bill itself, or "fill the amendment tree"--if the status quo breaks down entirely, but these prerogatives are typically saved, to be used as a last resort.

It's worth keeping in mind that he and the rest of Democratic leadership were counting on this sort of obstruction, and, indeed see value in allowing it to play out for some time on the floor.

"There's a strategic and a message value to letting this play out on the floor for the American people to see," a senior Democratic aide told me way back in September. "Especially if this plays out on the floor and Republicans try to kill the bill."

Today, a different aide said, "we're willing to give them a small window of time to give their best faith effort toward this gentleman's agreement. But if we see that we're at a complete stalemate over the next few days I think we'll see things change rapidly."

Not all Democrats are pleased with that--particularly Democrats who aren't satisfied with the legislation as it stands.

"[Tabling] is obviously one of the methods of dealing with amendments that aren't necessarily acceptable," said Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE). "I haven't concluded that Republicans have tried to hold [the bill] up necessarily. I assume that they're negotiating in good faith to get a way forward for amendments on both sides."

Comments (70) | Join the Conversation!

Recommend Recommend (1)

December 2, 2009 1:13 PM   

Reid and his sternly worded letters...

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December 2, 2009 4:17 PM    in reply to Walter Mitty

Fine-- call them and make sure they stick to their guns 1.800.828.0498!

THE GOP has used extra ordinary measures from the get go ...in 1994! Now they are just obstructionist with no plan..At least Newt had plans--these fools do not even have a leader!

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December 2, 2009 1:23 PM   

Good ol' Harry, pretending he has nuts. And good ol' TPM, pretending he's right.

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December 2, 2009 2:36 PM    in reply to EastWest

lol.. nice!

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December 2, 2009 3:25 PM    in reply to EastWest

People are really hurt and that's your comment?

The Repubs are a disgrace. Wake up!!!

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December 2, 2009 3:31 PM    in reply to DownriverDem

You think he cares? Republicans don't care about anyone but Glenn Beck and the ones lining their pockets. So of course that's all he cay say.

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December 2, 2009 1:33 PM   

Every day one Dem needs to read into the record that every day the Republicans stall reform approximately 123 Americans die to lack of health insurance. And every Dem who goes on a talking head programs needs to make the same point - you don't get to call yourself 'pro-life' if you are willing to let people die.

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December 2, 2009 2:40 PM    in reply to Powkat

I'm sure there is more that 123 per day... I'm sure more people die from the flu.

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December 2, 2009 3:21 PM    in reply to Powkat

Ding! Ding! we have a winner.

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December 2, 2009 1:38 PM   

Talk about your clash of civilizations!
If their positions were reversed, the minority Dems would already have been browbeaten into a procedural agreement -- which they would then honor. With a bigger majority than the GOP ever had during the Bush years, the Dems will only threaten to play hardball -- they never actually do it.
If the Dems want some version of this bill, they will have to use every procedural tactic at their disposal -- including all of the "thermonuclear" variations -- in order to prevail.
Negotiating with McConnell & Co. is not an option: At any hint of accommodation or conciliation, the GOP will quickly move the goalposts. It's what they do. They're like the Japanese in World War II: their culture makes no allowance for compromise, let alone surrender. The only way to beat them is to beat them -- relentlessly, repeatedly and as hard as possible. They give no quarter and expect none. Casualties will be high on both sides but there is simply no alternative.
Yet despite abundant evidence that compromise and accommodation are futile, the Dems will keep on trying to work things out like civilized human beings, looking increasingly pathetic in the process.
And GOP shamelessness will triumph again.

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December 2, 2009 2:02 PM    in reply to tchampmass

I really do wish the Democrats would grow some nuts. If the Republican ever had a 60 vote majority during the Bush years, Social Security would be privatized and tax cuts for the rich would be permanent. Meanwhile, the Dems are tittering about like this is some sort of church social event. This "nice guy" crap is what prevented Gore from winning the Florida recount.

Say what you will about Republicans, but they do know that politics is bloodsport.

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December 2, 2009 3:57 PM    in reply to tonigo

+1

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December 2, 2009 3:36 PM    in reply to tchampmass

The GNOP doesn't mind hanging the "un-American” label around the neck of anyone that disagrees with their plans for America. And they are better at name-calling and message discipline.

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December 2, 2009 1:40 PM   

Won't somebody please think of the children?!?!?!

I love brand new thought-terminating clichés

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December 2, 2009 1:55 PM   

I love the way that Reid is always reacting to what the Republicans decide to do, as if it comes as a big surprise and outrage. Can't we finally, at long last, assume that they are going to do absolutely anything and everything they can to kill this bill, whether or not it's ethical or it breaks some 'gentleman's agreement'? Until Reid stops allowing the Republicans to run the show and starts proceeding in a manner that makes them scream and holler like scalded cats because it no longer matters what they do, this bill will never pass.

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December 2, 2009 2:12 PM    in reply to rstephen

I agree with everything you said r. Now, about the "conservaDems"...

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December 2, 2009 2:38 PM    in reply to rstephen

They've stated this publicly. It's not like they even have to assume anything.

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December 2, 2009 2:13 PM   

This is what you get when you let an urban, nominally liberal party be led by someone from Nevada.

I repeat: NEVADA.

WTF happened to having a Majority Leader from, say, Brooklyn, LA, Detroit, Chicago, etc.?

Reid has precious few constituents who are representative of the base of the Democratic Party. So this is what we get.

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December 2, 2009 2:23 PM   

Like I said about the White House: Wow! What leadership!

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December 2, 2009 2:38 PM    in reply to wbgonne

Trolling?

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December 2, 2009 2:41 PM    in reply to lousgirl84

Here's a suggestion: Get your head out of Obama's ass.

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December 2, 2009 2:47 PM    in reply to wbgonne

As soon as you get your head out of your own ass.

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December 2, 2009 2:52 PM    in reply to FreeRider

Wow. Pithy retort. Very imaginative.

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December 2, 2009 3:34 PM    in reply to wbgonne

Doesn't take any imagination to tell the truth.

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December 2, 2009 3:36 PM    in reply to Kuyleh

Does so.

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December 2, 2009 3:41 PM    in reply to wbgonne

Is that why you are incapable of telling the truth--no imagination?

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December 2, 2009 4:23 PM    in reply to FreeRider

better get some of that compassionate conservative vaseline, webgoon, cuz when you do pull it out, it's gonna hurt. No doubt, if your silly comments are any indication, your head's too big for your ass, how you got it up there in the first place is a mystery...

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December 2, 2009 4:24 PM    in reply to JEP07

pithy, imaginative and just a bit funny, no?

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December 2, 2009 4:26 PM    in reply to JEP07

pithy, imaginative and just a bit funny, no?

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December 2, 2009 3:36 PM    in reply to wbgonne

Just following your pithy, imaginative lead.

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December 2, 2009 2:23 PM   

Harry's wants to brig a spork to a gun fight again

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December 2, 2009 2:24 PM    in reply to thomas1

D'oh! that's BRING a spork, not brig a spork to the gun fight.
Harry gets me so upset I can't type.

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December 2, 2009 4:34 PM    in reply to thomas1

You do the D'oh thing so well...


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December 2, 2009 4:37 PM    in reply to JEP07

D'oh(R)

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December 2, 2009 2:32 PM    in reply to thomas1

I believe McConnell has said that his intent was to defeat this bill. What part of this does Reid not understand?

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December 2, 2009 2:28 PM   

Consider this Label: “Obstructive Anarchy.”

Republicans who abuse Senate conventions in order to prevent the legislature from functioning are “Obstructive Anarchists.” The change from simple majority voting to a 60 vote requirement for every single decision in the Senate has been imposed on American voters by Republicans determined to maintain power at the cost of functional government.

The abusive threat of filibuster, the blocking of bills and the blocking of nominees have only one purpose: to paralyze the government. This is the core of anarchy.

Consider the label “Obstructive Anarchist” and use it when referring to those blocking democratic process.

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December 2, 2009 2:32 PM   

said Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE). "I haven't concluded that Republicans have tried to hold [the bill] up necessarily. I assume that they're negotiating in good faith to get a way forward for amendments on both sides."

Nelson really isn't this dimwitted or dense, or is he?

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December 2, 2009 2:34 PM    in reply to NotFooledByDistractions

Yes I believe he is.

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December 2, 2009 4:36 PM    in reply to ottis

negotiating in good faith(R)


Doesn't seem to fit together anymore...

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December 2, 2009 2:38 PM    in reply to NotFooledByDistractions

It is all a game. They know how it will end and they knew it from the beginning. No public option. Health insurance mandate. Just call it what it is: No Health Care Company Left Behind. Everyone who has spent time and energy making phone calls to Congresspeople, proselytizing on websites and in person - people like me -- we have all been played for chumps by the Democrats and Obama. This was never on the level. If it was, Obama would have been leading. What a failure. And health care was EASY relative to climate change/energy. THAT is no longer even active. Off the table. What a shame. What a squandered opportunity for the country. ANd you know what? We are running out of chances to get things right.

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December 2, 2009 2:49 PM    in reply to wbgonne

Wow. That was one long whammmbulance ride! Cheese with your whine, my good sir?!

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December 2, 2009 2:58 PM    in reply to FreeRider

Whining? The Democrats have complete control over Congress. There is a new and popular Democratic president. We are coming off 8 years of the worst president in history. Health care reform has been the Democratic party's signature issue for 40 years. And yet the Democrats fail miserably to reform health care. They'll try hard to sell it but no one will believe that this POS legislation is an "achievement" and the Democrats will get deservedly clobbered at the polls in the upcoming elections. You can applaud all you want but that won't change the reality.

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December 2, 2009 3:03 PM    in reply to wbgonne

Almost ALL Democrats are supporting good health care reform. You can't blame ALL Democrats for 4 or 5 dimwit Dems.

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December 2, 2009 3:09 PM    in reply to ilovebacon

The Democratic Party is failing. The numbers are insignificant.

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December 2, 2009 3:15 PM    in reply to wbgonne

Jump back to summer '08: I recall the left-of-centers bashing Obama for not fighting back against McCain's and Palin's attacks. Why is he letting them beat him up? people shouted. He was playing rope-a-dope, like he's doing now. Wait until the vote. Until then, this is just impatient petulence.

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December 2, 2009 6:01 PM    in reply to wbgonne

You post the same thing on every story no matter what the subject. Troll

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rwc

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December 2, 2009 3:40 PM    in reply to ilovebacon

Exactly. Given the corporate and conservadems in their ranks, we really need a majority of 65-68 senators to get progressive legislation done.

I wish I could remember the name of it, but I read a book several years back that took a look at the political makeup of Congress and argued there was really only two brief windows in the 20th century when liberals actually had functioning majorities -- from 1934-38 and from 1964-66 -- and virtually all far-reaching progressive laws -- SS, Medicare, labor laws, finance regulations, civil rights -- were passed in those two brief windows. Democratic majorities in all the other years were compromised by conservative Dems, particularly Dixiecrats, and in combinations with bigger GOP minorities, stymied most other transformative progressive legislation.

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December 2, 2009 4:11 PM    in reply to rwc

Maybe the Democrats need 100 senators to get things done. Funny. The Republicans only need 51. Why is that?

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December 2, 2009 3:21 PM    in reply to FreeRider

First person to use the word "whine" or the word "hitler" in an argument, loses the argument. Hence you are a loser.

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December 2, 2009 3:40 PM    in reply to runfastandwin

First person who declare the winner or loser of an argument based on rules he pulls out of his ass is a loser who pulls shit out of his ass!

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December 2, 2009 6:31 PM    in reply to FreeRider

I guess you'd be that one, then.

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December 2, 2009 2:47 PM   

Good grief! They better hurry up or or or were going to get mad! These guys sound like my 5 year old.

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December 2, 2009 2:55 PM   

"[Tabling] is obviously one of the methods of dealing with amendments that aren't necessarily acceptable," said Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE). "I haven't concluded that Republicans have tried to hold [the bill] up necessarily. I assume that they're negotiating in good faith to get a way forward for amendments on both sides."

I'm sure that's what they're doing, Ben. In fact, the Republicans are probably trying to time this so that Santa can deliver a finished bill on Christmas Eve and they can all vote on it before the kids wake up to find it wrapped and under the tree.

They're planning something similar for the climate and energy bill around Easter time.

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December 2, 2009 3:02 PM    in reply to chimpale

Haha. Ben Nelson is as boring as his name.

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December 2, 2009 3:10 PM   

On Christmas day--I'd like to see that.

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December 2, 2009 3:38 PM    in reply to ilovebacon

lol, I hope Santa Claus will testify before the Senate.

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December 2, 2009 3:49 PM    in reply to Ethan

He keeps giving Republicans switches and coal, but they just sneer about global warming and throw them on the fire.

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December 2, 2009 3:48 PM   

What powers does the Majority Leader of the Senate have that are not subject to a filibuster or an anonymous objection? What are the rules for revision of Senate rules? Does the filibuster rule state the original intent for the use of the filibuster, implying that using it to paralyze all legislation is abuse?

The Filibuster rule should be amended to state that the percent of votes required to break a filibuster is reduced by an inverse proportion to the number of votes filibustered per term. The filibuster should be a rule that is weakened by abuse without removing the option.

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December 2, 2009 3:59 PM   

If they have to pass this bill using extraordinary procedural tactics, they might as well include the strongest public option available, along the lines of Jacob Hacker's original plan. Just as well hang for a horse as for a mule.

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December 2, 2009 4:51 PM    in reply to Tanjaoui

Right. A strong public option to begin in 2010, not 2013.

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December 2, 2009 4:16 PM   

Every day they stall, the R's come closer to the scales falling off the eyes of some of their brainwashed lemmings.

When they might reach critical mass, and actually effect the 2010 elections to their own detriment, is anyone's guess, but even a lemming eventually realizes when it's getting the shaft.

And could there be better proof than this transparent stalling?

They really are(R) pawns of the multinationals, and one of these days their constituents will realize it, especially if they keep up the stall-and-scare tactics.

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December 2, 2009 4:37 PM   

So we have to spend 3 days arguing an amendment that will never pass, from a party that NOT ONE SINGLE MEMBER will vote for the bill...I love the Senate.

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December 2, 2009 4:46 PM    in reply to theone718

House of Lords...

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December 2, 2009 4:48 PM   

It's time for the Senate Democratic leadership to end the obstructionism and tyranny of the GOP Senate minority and invoke reconciliation to force a filibuster-proof, simple-majority vote on the health care bill.

It's clear that the Ds won't hve the necessary 60 votes to invoke cloture, given the strident opposition of the "Blue Dogs" to the public option -- WHICH ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY MUST BE INCLUDED IN THE BILL, NO MATTER WHAT -- or else the bill won't be worth the paper it's printed on.

Without a public option to offer low and moderate-income Americans a health insurance plan they can afford, the proposed provision in the bill to make health insurance mandatory for all Americans can be challenged in court as unconstitutionally arbitrary and capricious in violation of the Ninth Amendment.

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December 2, 2009 4:54 PM    in reply to SkeeterVT

"It's time for the Senate Democratic leadership to end the obstructionism and tyranny of the GOP Senate minority and invoke reconciliation to force a filibuster-proof, simple-majority vote on the health care bill."

How would reconciliation get anything other than the $$$ parts thru?

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December 2, 2009 4:48 PM   

If they stay on Xmas, Repubs will scream that Dems are anti-Christian.

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December 2, 2009 5:09 PM   

It is time for the Democrats to take off the gloves and start a bare knuckle fight on this bill. I'm 69 years old, I don't necessarily need this bill, but my kids and their kids sure need this bill. The Republicans are looking more and more like scum.

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December 2, 2009 5:24 PM   

Where are the fighting Dems? Granted, Ted Kennedy is gone, as is Wellstone. But there ARE other supposedly fightin' Dems. Where are they?

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December 2, 2009 8:41 PM   

Ben Nelson is a closet Republican. Of course, he too would like to hold up the bill.

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December 2, 2009 8:49 PM   

Nelson: "I haven't concluded that Republicans have tried to hold [the bill] up necessarily. I assume that they're negotiating in good faith to get a way forward for amendments on both sides."

Translation: I am a worthless tool.

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