TPMDC
Here 'Til Christmas? Republicans Differ On Whether To Run Out The Health Care Clock
Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK)
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Apparently not all Republicans think the most fruitful use of their time is delaying a final vote on health care reform. Early this afternoon, Republicans filed into a caucus meeting just off the Senate floor to discuss whether it makes sense to require Democrats to run out the clock, as is their right under Senate rules, or to cede back some time so that members can go home early.
Filing in, though, Republicans I spoke with seemed to think it would be best to stick around for the long haul.
Among Republicans, Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) has been the most adamant that the minority use all of the tools at its disposal--maximize the number of filibusters, and make sure they last as long as possible--to delay (or forestall) a final vote.
In a brief interview with TPMDC, Coburn said he will make sure the Senate stays in session until the last possible moment. "No, there's no chance," he told me.
Coburn said he would object if Democrats asked for unanimous consent to hold health care votes in more rapid succession.
Complicating factors for members is that they have to hold a vote, before the year is out, on raising the country's debt ceiling. If Republicans refuse to cede back time on health care, that vote will have to happen next week, after a very brief Christmas break. But Coburn says he's going to force the issue.
"Obviously the process around here has been grossly foreshortened," said Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH). "I can understand some of my colleagues are fairly upset at the way the process has gone and I feel they should have a chance to air those concerns."
Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) said, definitively, "no, we're not going to cede back any time. We're fighting til the bitter end, till hell freezes over and we're skating on the ice."
"The longer that the process plays out, it still gives the American people more chance to look at this bill, and the more chance for us to talk to the American people about the bill," said Sen. John Ensign (R-NV), "because the more we talk to them and the more we tell them the details of the bill, you see the polls, they keep moving more against this bill."
"Based on last night, I thought a pretty large majority [of Republicans] wanted to take it all the way," Ensign said.
"I think it takes unanimous consent, and I'm not sure I have any disagreement with staying here," said Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA).
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Walter Mitty
December 21, 2009 1:12 PM
Coburn is praying that Sen. Byrd dies or in the very least has a medical emergency so he can't make the vote. He said as much on the Senate floor yesterday. Keeping the sick oldtimer until 1am, getting him out in the bitter cold at all hours is his strategy.
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kqrbob
December 21, 2009 2:32 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
So if Byrd collapses on the senate floor which oath does the good Dr. Coburn follow, Hippocratic or hypocritic?
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Elizabeth2
December 21, 2009 3:01 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
According to Politico, three Republicans (I wish I knew who) had volunteered to vote for cloture so that Byrd would not have to attend the middle-of-the-night session -- a courtesy that I know has been extended on other occasions -- but, of course, the Rep. "leadership" wouldn't let that sort of behavior occur!!
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geofu54
December 21, 2009 3:30 PM in reply to Elizabeth2
They've crossed so many lines there is no line left anymore. Fuck them.
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Steaming Pile
December 21, 2009 3:42 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
Yep, that's what he's holding out for, all right. Delay the vote long enough, and he might get his wish. The bastard.
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CT Voter
December 21, 2009 1:14 PM
An image of circling vultures just flashed into my head.
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Mimi katz
December 21, 2009 1:16 PM
Earth to Senate: It's Christmas Week. No one cares about your shenanigans--they are all out shopping or partying or watching football or playing games at work until they can get off to do those things. Really. Maybe the tea partiers and some lefty wonks are watching, but no one who doesn't have their mind already made up is paying any attention at all.
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ericf
December 21, 2009 1:23 PM in reply to Mimi katz
I wouldn't say no one cares. It's looking like Republicans have succeeded in galvanizing the Democrats. The shame of it is it's taken this level of obstruction to get Senate Democrats to figure it out, even though the base has been shouting that there's no hope of working with Republicans. I can only guess their personal relationships with Republicans and memories of how some Republicans used to care about the public good was blinding them to what was clear from outside.
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stillidealistic
December 21, 2009 3:26 PM in reply to ericf
I don't think it is a shame at all. It is almost always best to take the high road and let others prove themselves to be unworthy, than to go in assuming the worst. This way, the dems can say they really tried to make it bi-partisan, and the repubs have shown the whole world what they are made of.
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LindaR
December 21, 2009 9:12 PM in reply to Mimi katz
I feel sorry for all the staffers and workers whose week is being impacted by this pettiness. Obviously the Grand Old Party doesn't give a flying fk for the people who have to actually work around the clock because of their inanity.
I hope the Senate workers find lots of little ways to get back at them. (I'm petty too)
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wbgonne
December 21, 2009 1:18 PM
It's the GOP's War on Christmas. Quick! Call Hannity.
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slb
December 21, 2009 3:19 PM in reply to wbgonne
You almost caused me to spray hot coffee all over my desk!
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Jackster
December 21, 2009 1:31 PM
Delay until the middle of the night so we can complain about it being the middle of the night.
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baltimore
December 21, 2009 1:31 PM
why have senators? just let the lobbyists write the legislation.
would cost less; eliminate the middle-man!
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daveincolorado
December 21, 2009 3:27 PM in reply to baltimore
They already do that.
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Jackster
December 21, 2009 1:33 PM
"Republicans filed into a caucus meeting just off the Senate floor to"
Wouldn't that be considered "behind closed doors" Where was CNN?
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ohyeathatsright
December 21, 2009 1:47 PM
Who are the ones that differ on the issue? The headline says, not all agree, yet the entire article features the usual suspects we already knew would obstruct.
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Brainpicnic
December 21, 2009 1:49 PM
Maybe instead of acting like spoiled children they should have gotten involved in actually legislating on healthcare in a productive way. But instead of debating the pros and cons of the legislation they're debating how to manifest their sour grapes attitude. Why do some of these folks run for office if they're not interested in getting anything done? Move aside and let someone else go to DC. Just a thought.
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twirling fartknocker
December 21, 2009 1:49 PM
Oklahoma is one fucked up state. I've been there a couple times (you have to go to a liquor store to get anything other than weak-assed beer) and they have two insane Senators.
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twirling fartknocker
December 21, 2009 1:50 PM in reply to twirling fartknocker
Oh, and they legalized tattoos for the first time ever only a few years ago. Just another tidbit of OK trivia.
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agio
December 21, 2009 4:40 PM in reply to twirling fartknocker
Interestingly enough, tattoo parlors were illegal in Massachusetts until the late '90s, as well.
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Lynn Dee
December 21, 2009 1:57 PM
Aren't all the votes from here on in simple majority? I'm not sure it matters if Sen. Byrd makes it to the floor or not.
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Lynn Dee
December 21, 2009 2:00 PM in reply to Lynn Dee
By here on in, I mean just on the Senate bill, of course. Not the final bill after it comes out of conference.
Come to think of it, though, Sen. Byrd's health could be an added reason for "ping-ponging" it to Obama's desk without a final vote on the merged bill, since that is subject to a vote on cloture subject to filibuster.
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Elizabeth2
December 21, 2009 3:08 PM in reply to Lynn Dee
According to what I heard last night (CSPAN and CNN), it goes like this:
Cloture vote on the amendment (done w/ 60)
-- wait 30 hours --
Vote on the amendment itself (only 51 needed)
-- not sure if there is a required waiting time or not --
Cloture vote on something technical that has to be done (60)
-- wait 30 hours --
Vote on that technical thing whatever it is (51)
--again, not sure if there is a required delay --
Cloture vote on the bill plus amendment (60)
-- wait 30 hours --
Vote on the bill plus amendment itself (51)
Don't ask me why you have to wait 30 hours after a cloture vote but you do. -- So, if the Republicans hold them to it (which it seems they are going to do), Byrd - and all others - will be needed twice more in the process and the very earliest there can be a final vote is 7:00 pm Christmas Eve. If they weren't insisting on cloture, I *believe* they could have those three 'substantive' votes (amendment, technical thing, bill + amendment) in rapid succession ... possibly all of them today for all I know.
Idiocy -- either idiocy or something worse if they are truly waiting around for someone to be struck by an auto or a stroke or something.
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slb
December 21, 2009 3:31 PM in reply to Elizabeth2
Don't ask me why you have to wait 30 hours after a cloture vote but you do.
Because what cloture actually means is "no more than 30 additional hours of debate."
But there is also a 24-hour waiting period required between the filing of a cloture petition and holding the vote to invoke cloture. That, I am sure, is to avoid petitions being filed in the middle of the night for an immediate vote and denying the other side the ability to round up its supporters. I'm not sure just how that figures into it. Have the petitions already been filed, or do you have to wait for the motion actually to be brought to the floor? I don't know.
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Elizabeth2
December 21, 2009 3:57 PM in reply to slb
Thank you - I didn't know that (still think they should make them actually DO the 30 hours of telephone-book-reading, etc. .... THAT might get the message across to the American people.) I'd forgotten about the filing of the petition for cloture, although I kmow Reid did that as soon as he and Nelson reached agreement (or maybe it was X hours after the bill had been released, if that was required). So, depending on when you are able to file the petition, it may go
vote for cloture on amendment (done)
-- wait 30 hours --
vote on amendment
file cloture petition re: technical thing
-- wait 24 hours --
vote for cloture on technical thing
.. and so forth
I'm all for having procedures and knowing them and using them to proceed in an orderly fashion -- but just as Lieberman wanted unanimous consent to continue speaking for additional minutes, when things are going in orderly fashion it is (has always been) the Senate's custom to dispense with unnecessary steps by unanimous consent. What the Reps are doing now has nothing to do with orderly procedure and everything to do with obstructionism (or worse)
You say: "once a motion is on the floor, it has to be dealt with before you can move on to other business"
---- Does that mean that they can't even get the remaining defense bill out of the way while they are sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting for the various 24 or 30-hour time periods to pass? Or -- wait, let me guess -- it's something they could attend to 'on unanimous consent' but of course the Reps won't consent.
I almost wish I were registered Republican so I could go to Town Hall and UN-register in protest!
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Lynn Dee
December 21, 2009 3:39 PM in reply to Elizabeth2
Eliz2, Thanks -- very helpful!
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Why oh why
December 21, 2009 2:23 PM
I'm completely uninterested in those Byzantine Senate rules, but they can't even consider two bills on the same day? One corrupt Senator can bring the whole thing to a halt?
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slb
December 21, 2009 3:35 PM in reply to Why oh why
Part of those "arcane rules" is the order of business. Normally, once a motion is on the floor, it has to be dealt with before you can move on to other business.
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Steve LaBonne
December 21, 2009 2:49 PM
This is like the last years of the Roman Republic- the established government is so consumed with infighting that it's completely unable to attend to business.
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wbgonne
December 21, 2009 2:55 PM in reply to Steve LaBonne
It is like the last days of Rome in more ways than that. There is a total breakdown in respect for the attributes that make a culture thrive.
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manyamile
December 21, 2009 3:01 PM
I think everyone should pay a holiday visit to your Republican Senate or congrssional representative. Take copies of your medical bills with you, with a little note "dear sen.so and so , happy holidays...here . Take copies of your rent, your mortgage, your power bills, your childcare bills..your food bills.
Give them to your Republican representative as a holiday gift.
.
Point out that their obstruction and procrastination has hurt, not helped their constituents, everyday people like you.
Not one single Republican worked for improved health care for United States citizens.
not one.
Show up and let them know what flavor the new tea is.
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slb
December 21, 2009 3:40 PM in reply to manyamile
Bitter as death, you might say.
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blmack
December 21, 2009 3:10 PM
It's like being down by 10 points with 10 seconds left to play, but you keep fouling anyway.
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mpav
December 21, 2009 11:51 PM in reply to blmack
...or (to bring the scenario outdoors, in honor of Bowl Week) -- even though the other team has the ball, they're up by a TD, and only 15 secs. are left in the game -- using up all your TO's to stop the clock (three times) before they can finally take the knee (who knows, maybe they'll fumble the snap, and one of your boys can run it in... ya never know...)
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AhTrini1
December 21, 2009 3:41 PM
FUG all hypocrites a.k.a. republicans!
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SavannahGA
December 21, 2009 5:21 PM
When will we get Tom Coburn's "dead girl or live boy" C Street hallelujah moment exposed for all to see? Not far off in 2010, I'll wager. Ripe waiting to burst. You might want to watch your mouth a little more, Tommy.....
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jward
December 21, 2009 6:21 PM
I love that it is all coming together on Christmas Eve, with the Scrooges holding out to the end. This will not be lost on the American public.
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