
President Obama will send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan, an administration official tells TPMDC.
The official, speaking on a condition of anonymity because Obama has not announced the new strategy yet to the nation, said the president "intervened" to make sure the military deploys these troops to the region faster than initially planned.
This will bring the total troops in Afghanistan to more than 100,000 - a jump of more than 60,000 since Obama took office in January.
They will be there within six months, the official said.
The New York Times describes it as a "more, sooner" policy. The president reached the conclusion after nine meetings of his war council.
In his speech tonight at West Point, Obama will talk about a timeframe for withdrawal. The official said after the nine meetings, "consensus" has emerged among the key players, which "will make it easier to implement."
Before leaving for West Point late this afternoon, Obama will meet with Congressional leaders to discuss the decision.
Xantar
December 1, 2009 10:39 AM
Let me just save you guys some time and summarize this comments thread:
Obama has made a mistake of historic proportions. This will sink his presidency and turn into his Vietnam. He has already failed thanks to Tim Geithner, Larry Summers, and Rahm Emanuel. This is not the change we voted for. Jane Hamsher is right.
And also, people like Xantar are Obamabots who will defend him against anything and think he can do no wrong.
So now that we've gotten that part over with, let's get on with the rest of our conversation.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
human
December 1, 2009 11:11 AM in reply to Xantar
And let me summarize Xantar--"I'm going to poison the well from the beginning since no one's opinion matters but my own. Anyone who differs is a mindless robot."
There, much more succinct.
Now, I'm sure Xantar can point us all to the part of Obama's campaign platform where he said we would withdraw from Afghanistan. I don't remember seeing that anywhere, but then I'm not an ignorant voter who is now acting like he was duped.
That's not to say I agree with this, but it's not unexpected at all for anyone who's been paying attention.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Viva!America!
December 1, 2009 11:19 AM in reply to human
Did I miss something? I think you and Xantar are almost on the same page.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Steaming Pile
December 1, 2009 12:21 PM in reply to human
You seem to have missed the point. Xantar was pre-emptively predicting the quite-predictable response from the Obama == LBJ faction, thus hoping to defuse it before it begins.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
The Decider
December 1, 2009 11:44 AM in reply to Xantar
I have decided that I really like Obama. He is cool like me. Too bad is he in the democrat party.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
December 1, 2009 11:47 AM in reply to Xantar
Whoops, you forgot the part about how this, like everything else that happens, is explained and predictable by the Evil Corporate Illuminati Conspiracy theory.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
again
December 1, 2009 12:30 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
Are people who question the excessive influence of corporate lobbyists necessarily to be mocked as believers in what you call an "evil illuminati et cetera"?
Then you'll have to group the following people as "conspiracy" theorists:
Simon Johnson, former Chief Economist of the IMF
Bill Moyers, former White House Press Secretary
Sheila Bair, Chair of the FDIC
Elizabeth Warren, Chair of the Congressional Oversight Panel
Gretchen Morgenson of the New York Times
William Buiter of The Financial Times
Robert Reich of UCB
Gillian Tett of the Financial Times
Brooksley Born, former chair of the CFTC
Kevin Phillips, former GOP political strategist
Glenn Greenwald, former constitutional and civil rights litigator
...and so on.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
December 1, 2009 2:59 PM in reply to again
I wasn't making fun of "people who question the excessive influence of corporate lobbyists." I am among those who question, and indeed decry, the excessive influence of corporate lobbyists. I was making fun of losers who take an object of legitimate concern and inflate it into a grand, all-encompassing, conspiracy theory of everything. Like all cynicism-based reductionist dogmas, it's the bomb if your objective is to psuedo-intellectual generate prattle that sounds knowing and worldly, but it's not really a substitute for critical thinking.
I don't presume you're among those who are the target of my criticism. Just explainging who is.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
again
December 1, 2009 12:21 PM in reply to Xantar
With apologies to "awilheim", I think his/her contribution from yesterday is far more thoughtful. (Then again, what wouldn't be?) Awilheim's comment read as follows:
"This is not a rebuttal per se to comments in favor of the president's decision, but I'd like to point out two logical fallacies that seem be popping up in arguments contra 'again' et al:
1) Because Obama announced his intention to escalate the conflict in Afghanistan way back in the campaign, this build-up was completely predictable and therefore warrants no protest from the anti-war crowd.
—No, his decision does not come as a surprise. But if you consider it a wrongheaded policy move, the fact that the President announced his intentions well in advance does not make it any less objectionable. Many progressives who disagreed with his Afghan war stance calculated that it was still in their best interest to support him in the campaign (on the basis of his domestic agenda, renewed commitment to diplomacy, etc.), hoping that he might come around to their thinking on the war. Was it a long shot? Perhaps, but there's nothing wrong about being disappointed by the inevitable.
2) Because Obama has studied this issue much more than any of us, his conclusions on the matter are necessarily superior to our own.
—This strikes me as a very dangerous attitude to adopt with respect to one's own government. Merely understanding the complexities of a military situation does not mean that you are approaching it with the dispassionate, unencumbered judgment that one would hope to see in the commander-in-chief of the armed forces. The previous administration included numerous examples of officials driven by political considerations and ideological predisposition to ignore uncomfortable facts and opposing views. Simply being a policy expert does not mean that your assessments are in the best interest of the country (e.g. - health care industry lobbyists). So it's hardly beyond the pale to assert that Obama might have made a poor decision.
(By the same token, I do not fancy myself an expert on the Afghan war. But having read what I've read and knowing what I do about combat, my read is that this build-up is sending us down a slippery slope to no particular avail. I would love to be mistaken, but as a civically engaged individual, I will promote that viewpoint if/until I feel I am proven wrong.)"
-posted by awilheim yesterday at 3:42 p.m.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
JeffB
December 1, 2009 10:49 AM
Is Obama's new Afghan war strategy an acceleration of U.S. exit or escalation?
http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=6563
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
SqueakyRat
December 1, 2009 10:50 AM
Thanks, Xantar, you not only summarized the upcoming thread but you're also right on the substance!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
eric the red
December 1, 2009 10:50 AM
I am pretty sure that Obama did not envision himself doing this when he was running for president. With that assumed, I am wondering, what changed? Do presidents, upon coming into office become privy to information that is so scary that they turn into war-mongers? It sure seems to affect every president - since Eisenhower, anyway.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
T Groan
December 1, 2009 11:01 AM in reply to eric the red
What changed? He has to be responsible to those funded his election and presumable re-election and that isn't the majority of the American people.
Until the dumbocrats and rethuglicans are removed from power, no real change will occur.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
thecrow
December 1, 2009 11:08 AM in reply to eric the red
"Do presidents, upon coming into office become privy to information that is so scary that they turn into war-mongers?"
http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/the-protection-racket/
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
human
December 1, 2009 11:18 AM in reply to eric the red
I am pretty sure that Obama did not envision himself doing this when he was running for president.
Then you weren't paying attention to anything he ever said re Iraq and Afghanistan during the campaign. He stated repeatedly that Iraq was the unnecessary diversion from the war in Afghanistan and that we needed to refocus our efforts there.
Anyone who was paying attention can say that they hoped he'd change his mind after an evaluation, but you can't say that you're surprised by what he's doing based on what he said during the campaign.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
hewhohasnoname
December 1, 2009 11:20 AM in reply to eric the red
"For while Senator McCain was turning his sights to Iraq just days after 9/11, I stood up and opposed this war, knowing that it would distract us from the real threats we face. When John McCain said we could just “muddle through” in Afghanistan, I argued for more resources and more troops to finish the fight against the terrorists who actually attacked us on 9/11, and made clear that we must take out Osama bin Laden and his lieutenants if we have them in our sights. John McCain likes to say that he’ll follow bin Laden to the Gates of Hell – but he won’t even go to the cave where he lives."
I think he envisioned doing just what he was doing when he was running for president. The quote above is from DNC.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Steaming Pile
December 1, 2009 12:25 PM in reply to hewhohasnoname
Thank you. Senator Obama said this last year. It was all over the news. You voted for him anyway. Those who didn't see this coming have been blinded by the light...or something.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Viva!America!
December 1, 2009 11:22 AM in reply to eric the red
What a way to word that question.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Why oh why
December 1, 2009 11:26 AM in reply to eric the red
Apparently that secret scary "information" is so scary and secret that even US Senators are not privy to it!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
eric the red
December 1, 2009 12:07 PM in reply to eric the red
I take the comment back inasmuch as I do now understand that Obama was pro-more troops when campaigning. I guess at that time, I even thought it made sense. Now, I don't agree at all.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
thecrow
December 1, 2009 11:13 AM
300,000 more could not "clear and hold" the TAPI corridor. It is a pipeline too far:
http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/the-gas-must-flow/
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
thecrow
December 1, 2009 11:16 AM
These boys are in the pipeline:
http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/first-person-sho0ter/
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Why oh why
December 1, 2009 11:16 AM
"This will bring the total troops in Afghanistan to more than 100,000 - a jump of more than 60,000 since Obama took office in January."
A small price to pay for Change and Hope!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Unmitigated Audacity
December 1, 2009 11:29 AM
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Agathena
December 1, 2009 11:32 AM
Obama is just doing what he said when he campaigned?
That means there's no pesky distraction in Iraq, he brought all the troops home?
Great, at least there's some good news today.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
hewhohasnoname
December 1, 2009 11:42 AM
Since people seem to believe that Obama's stance on Afghanistan is novel, here's an article from July 21, 2008:
Obama calls situation in Afghanistan 'urgent'
"For at least a year now, I have called for two additional brigades, perhaps three," he told CBS. "I think it's very important that we unify command more effectively to coordinate our military activities. But military alone is not going to be enough."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/20/obama.afghanistan/
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Homefries
December 1, 2009 11:46 AM
I fail to see how anyone, who's been paying attention, would be surprised by this. The situation in Afghanistan was allowed to languish and deteriorate for years while W and Cheney kept moving imaginary goal posts in Iraq. Obama never promised to "pull us out of Afghanistan".
If I remember correctly, Obama has repeatedly said he'll do what's right, even if it means he'll be a one term President. We do not live in a world where the President has the luxury of making decisions that makes everyone happy. Based on the information I've seen, and based on what I've heard from people who are actually involved in Afghanistan, this is his most responsible choice.
You have to play the hand of cards you've been dealt. Good luck us. We need it.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
LBJs Brain
December 1, 2009 11:52 AM in reply to Homefries
Co-freaking-sign!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Why oh why
December 1, 2009 12:29 PM in reply to Homefries
If only Obama could be as faithful to his campaign promises on Iraq, Wall Street regulation, torture and the rule of law...
Seriously, why is more-war-in-Afghanistan the one big promise he just has to keep? And he already sent 40,000 more troops there, wasn't that enough and how many more are needed to check that particular box and see it just doesn't do much good?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
again
December 1, 2009 12:46 PM in reply to Homefries
I guess the information you've seen didn't include statements from Bacevich and Hoh?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Homefries
December 1, 2009 1:40 PM in reply to again
I have no idea what your point is, but I guess you're implying that Bacevich and Hoh have come out against any further involvement in Afghanistan and--because you agree with their assessment--they hold more credibility than anyone else? Or something like that?
There are a lot of opinions on Afghanistan, and a lot of credible people voicing them. I completely accept the possibility that I, and the other persons who agree with the President's decision, might be wrong. That's the problem with awful situations like this, you never know til after the fact what was correct. And even then, we might never know for sure.
It would be easy for Obama to simply pull out and abandon the Afghans (and guarantee further destabilization of Pakistan). The libertarians and lefties would no doubt cheer. He could always pull a Cheney and simply blame our problems on the Republicans. Nothing would get done, but who cares? It's always someone else's fault. That seems to be the modus operandi of most people these days.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
traitorjoe
December 1, 2009 12:05 PM
Obama's caving to criticism from McChyrstal, the Pentagon Hawks and the Far Right which is incredibly stupid - they won't vote for him and support him no matter what. So he loses the Left and doesn't gain anything from the Right. Afghanistan is a quagmire of historic proportions. It sunk the British and the Soviet Union, why are we different?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
hewhohasnoname
December 1, 2009 12:14 PM in reply to traitorjoe
Or, Obama's doing just what he said he would do during the campaign. Do some research.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
again
December 1, 2009 12:39 PM in reply to hewhohasnoname
That doesn't make it right.
As a 9-11 "survivor", in the months when Battery Park City was engulfed in smoke, I still couldn't justify going into Afghanistan.
What, exactly, were we going to bomb? The place was already in rubble. But I understood that in the wake of that attack, it was inevitable.
But then I was told invading Iraq was not only necessary, but inevitable. Incroyable.
And let's be clear: we did go into to Afghanistan, we've been there for nearly a decade, and it's not improved. We lose a foothold almost as soon as we gain it.
We were not just attacked, we did not just lose nearly 3000 New Yorkers. There is no reason to do this. The warped logic that "requires" going is just that - warped.
But we went. I well understood Obama's plans for Afghanistan during the campaign, but like many people, the choice of voting for McCain was not a choice.
That does not mean I have to defend his decision, post-bursting of the RE bubble, to escalate in Afghanistan.
We don't have the funds or the soldiers to spare.
And let's be clear: 30,000 troops is not a de-escalation, no matter how some people here will try to defend it as such.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
hewhohasnoname
December 1, 2009 1:53 PM in reply to again
"That doesn't make it right."
That point is debatable. And based on what I'm seeing, the debate on the matter is far from over... But, clearly, based on the assessments of information presented to him, Obama thinks that an escalation is the right course of action. I can understand how he would come to that conclusion. I can also understand how someone would conclude that Afghanistan's not worth more time or resources. We are a war-weary, budget-stretched nation.
Obama seems to be asking for about 3 more years. Perhaps that will be sufficient time to achieve the objectives he's slated to outline tonight. Given that he seems to be willing to actually implement for the region a detailed plan that includes heavy diplomatic efforts and engagement with Pakistan and India, as well as other major players in the region, I can honestly say that I feel more comfortable about his decision; based on initial reports it's not unilateral or disproportionately militaristic. But, that doesn't mean that I like the decision. Yet, I think, as of now, that it may be the best option. (A withdrawal at this point would risk a regional destabilization that could cause greater problems down the line.)
By the way, I hope no one is trying to argue that deploying 30,000 more troops is a "de-escalation." It is clearly an escalation. My post above was simply to reiterate that Obama's been quite clear about his belief that an escalation and revamping of the strategy in Afghanistan is necessary; he campaigned on doing just what he's doing. So, to suggest that he suddenly was coaxed or cowered into this decision (as some are suggesting) seems, let's say, disingenuous.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Viva!America!
December 1, 2009 12:35 PM in reply to traitorjoe
So after hearing that the president told Dem Senators that it doesn't matter which way they vote on hcr, the Repubs will come after them anyway --- you think that his Aghan decision is so that the Far Right won't criticize him?
How stupid do you people think he is? Are you guys this fucking arrogant to think that the president doesn't know that the GOP will criticize him no matter what he does?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
traitorjoe
December 1, 2009 12:40 PM in reply to Viva!America!
Yes, I am completely stupid, thanks for pointing that out to me Viva, and I haven't done any research Hew, I just dropped on to the planet earth today. Obama never said he would bring home the troops and he didn't promise us Change. My bad. An escalation of war in Afghanistan is a great idea, we can pay for it with green stamps and we can succeed where others have failed.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
tiowally
December 1, 2009 1:15 PM in reply to traitorjoe
Wow. A reference to S&H Green Stamps! That takes me back ... and dates yourself, too.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
traitorjoe
December 1, 2009 1:28 PM in reply to tiowally
Don't remind me!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
again
December 1, 2009 12:44 PM in reply to Viva!America!
I guess Bill Moyers, who takes a similar position to the one you criticize, is also "this fucking arrogant." Still, he never struck me that way.
Please spare us the fake outrage and the feigned insult. This isn't about your hero. It's about whether we can spare the money we don't have and the soldiers we don't have.
It's about the lost opportunity cost - the money we could put into a jobs program, rebuilding the energy infrastructure in this country.
Yes, recruitment is up, but only because kids now have no other choice.
Afghanistan is not only not necessary, it's not a substitute for a jobs program. But it appears it will, by necessity now, be used as such. And to whose benefit?
Not to Afghanistan's or ours.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
again
December 1, 2009 1:00 PM in reply to Viva!America!
btw, VivaAmer, do you think you could cut down on the foul language?
I don't think Obama would approve, and neither do I.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Odel Roo
December 1, 2009 5:19 PM in reply to again
LOL
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Mtnrad
December 1, 2009 12:45 PM in reply to traitorjoe
He is doing approximately what he said he would do during the campaign, so no, it is not a big surprise doing a straight comparison with campaign rhetoric.
However, the situation is much different now than it was last Sept-October. The "bottom" 90% are seriously hurting, many states and cities are hurtling toward insolvency, hundreds of thousands of jobs disappear every month, and there's no plan to do anything remotely significant enough to turn things around, not only short term but long term too.
To show his budget hawk bona fides, Obama is dancing around ordering cuts in discretionary fed programs (not defense) -- which won't amount to much money, just pain, since that is not where the money is. Meanwhile, he commits us to spending at least $30 billion additional, $100 billion a year or so, on this "most important" war.
Does anyone think we'll be out of Afghanistan before we've spent another trillion dollars and 3,000 citizens' lives there, not to mention an additional many thousands who will be so injured their lives will be wrecked and they'll be in essence wards of the state for as long as they live?
Anybody in the administration doing a real, financial and human, cost-benefit analysis on this escalation? Where's the new way of doing the people's business?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
again
December 1, 2009 12:51 PM in reply to Mtnrad
"Where's the new way of doing the people's business?"
I didn't expect wholesale change, but it's clear from watching how Treasury and the banking sector have been handled that the idea of a new way of doing the peoples' business was tossed aside long ago.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Steve Gilpatrick
December 1, 2009 12:52 PM
We get the government we deserve, and with all the bad karma we've accrued over the past couple of centuries, we need to keep getting our ass kicked around for a few more years to come. Obama's just a cog in a far grander design. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
tiowally
December 1, 2009 1:17 PM in reply to Steve Gilpatrick
Agreed.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
awilhelm
December 1, 2009 3:00 PM
To reiterate a point I made at the end of the last Afghanistan thread, I think very few people are surprised that Obama has chosen to escalate in this fashion. To the extent that anyone is, I would agree: it suggests he/she a) was't listening carefully during the campaign or b) was't taking Obama's pronouncements at face value.
But then, I don't think that actually describes most in the anti-war camp. By and large they're simply disappointed that Obama—an intelligent, deliberative man—was not persuaded by arguments in favor of a small-scale increase or a more rapid drawdown.
Supporting a candidate, as many, many progressives did for Obama, does not require you to agree with every plank of his/her platform. I see no conflict in having voted for the man while vociferously advocating against his Afghan stance, pressuring him to change it once in office, and expressing disappointment when he doesn't. I don't feel obligated to support him in (what I believe to be) a wrong decision merely because he's been consistent about it from the start.
I'll keep an open mind and hear the President out tonight, but I can't really conceive of what he might say that would overwhelm the very compelling arguments against a large-scale escalation.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
awilhelm
December 1, 2009 3:01 PM in reply to awilhelm
*wasn't
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Johnhale4012
December 1, 2009 7:25 PM
thats crazy i first heard about it here http://www.theatervip.net/MyMovies/blog2.php/2009/12/01/obama-sending-30-000-more-troops-to-afghanistan
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
nike shoes
December 2, 2009 3:39 AM
http://www.footwearclothes.com
Gucci jeans
AF jackets forsell
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?