TPMDC
Obama To Dems: Don't Screw Up This Once-In-A-Lifetime Opportunity
President Barack Obama
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With the public option dead, and likely not coming back to life, President Obama huddled with Senate Democrats at the White House today bringing a familiar message: "get this done."
According to Sen. Bob Casey (D-PA), about a dozen senators, including Joe Lieberman (I-CT) spoke up at the gathering, many offering their displeasure with the fact that the public option, and its potential alternatives have been scrapped.
"Today was a very frank articulation of what's at stake for the country, and what's at stake for us, that we're not going to get a chance like this for a long, long time," Casey told reporters, "maybe not in our lifetimes."
"It was motivational, and also big picture," said Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV). "These decisions--hard decisions--in hard times, that have huge consequences for the good."
"It was motivational, and also big picture," Rockefeller went on. "These decisions--hard decisions--in hard times, that have huge consequences for the good."
Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) said Democrats are "getting closer by the minute...really feeling optimistic," about the prospects for 60 votes.
I asked her whether any in the party were concerned that, with the public option dropped, the Senate bill and the House bill are now so different as to be unreconcilable. She hinted that discussions have been taking place in the background to keep the conference process smooth.
"People have been talking about that for a long time," she said.
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Progressive Party
December 15, 2009 4:16 PM
Obama To Dems: Don't Screw Up This Once-In-A-Lifetime Opportunity
But to you the middle class....FUCK YOU!
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mcc
December 15, 2009 4:29 PM in reply to Progressive Party
"The middle class", as a whole, mostly doesn't read blogs. They probably won't realize that the Democrats passing legislation to bring health insurance to 97% of the currently uninsured is something they're supposed to be outraged about.
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Progressive Party
December 15, 2009 4:33 PM in reply to mcc
This legislation will not come close to 97% unless you believe in theory vs. reality.
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mcc
December 15, 2009 4:45 PM in reply to Progressive Party
Actually you're right, I was misreading something*. Sorry about that.
Trying again: What this bill does is cover 64% of those who would otherwise have been uninsured over the next 10 years. That's what the CBO projects. (They project a version with a negotiated-rates public option would have covered 82% of those otherwise uninsured.)
"The middle class" is not likely to as a bloc view reducing the number of uninsured Americans by 64% as some sort of betrayal.
* I made two mistakes here. I was attempting to work off of the CBO analysis, under which 97% is the number of nonelderly, legally present Americans who would have had insurance under the HELP bill-- not the number of uninsured Americans who would receive it. And of course it's the finance bill we're interested in, which was lower, at 94%. Compared to their projection of 83% insured if we do nothing, I get percentages of 64% and 82% for a Finance-style and HELP-style bill respectively.
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Tanjaoui
December 15, 2009 5:53 PM in reply to Progressive Party
Right...he means, "this once in a lifetime opportunity for me to rake in insurance industry and (even better) big Pharma campaign contributions".
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Realist
December 15, 2009 6:06 PM in reply to Tanjaoui
Ed Schultz said it best today: This phoney bill does NOT (1) rein in costs, (2) allow negotiating down prescription costs, (3) allow reimportation of drugs, (4) offer any kind of government program, and on and on. Not a single feature of this bill is a REFORM of health care. All it does it feather the nests of pirates in the pharmaceutical industry and the insurance biz. And that's all Obama cares about. He's no more a Democrat than George W. Bush.
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VictorLH
December 15, 2009 4:18 PM
This is Change we Can Believe In. Frightening these fools think people are going to think mandates and continually rising health care costs are going to get them re-elected.
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FreeRider
December 15, 2009 4:25 PM in reply to VictorLH
How? That turd prescription drug bill got more republicans elected (or at least didn't do any harm) despite the fact that nobody liked it but the drug companies. Yet, it was considered a win for the Republicans.
Voters are stupid and have a short attention span. If this bill dies (regardless of the reason), Democrats will be considered losers. Losers are not rewarded at the polls, even if it was for a greater good.
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Indie Pro
December 15, 2009 4:19 PM
She hinted that discussions have been taking place in the background to keep the conference process smooth.
"People have been talking about that for a long time," she said
more of that promised openness in the healthcare legislative process! I for one am heartened to see it all on C-Span.
"Not negotiating behind closed doors, but bringing all parties together and broadcasting those negotiations on C-SPAN," Obama explained in a Democratic debate in Los Angeles in January 2008, in language similar to many of his campaign stops.
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CT Voter
December 15, 2009 4:20 PM in reply to Indie Pro
And how on earth could negotiations take place when it isn't clear what's in the Senate bill?
Ludicrous.
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CT Voter
December 15, 2009 4:19 PM
Um, I don't get how you get the headline from the post?
Could someone please explain?
I'm deeply disappointed that Democrats caved to Lieberman (at the WH request, apparently) and think Obama hasn't handled this particularly well, and so on, but I don't think the headline characterizes what's in the post. Is TPM deliberately trying to provoke people?
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mcc
December 15, 2009 4:21 PM in reply to CT Voter
*squints*
Are you looking at the same headline I am? From the article it appears that Obama did in fact talk to some Democrats, and Bob Casey portrays him as describing this vote as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that has to be grabbed...
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CT Voter
December 15, 2009 4:28 PM in reply to mcc
Perhaps I'm quibbling over nothing, but that's Casey's paraphrase of what Obama said. Not what Obama literally said.
It's a small issue, but one that pops up frequently at TPMDC.
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mcc
December 15, 2009 4:31 PM in reply to CT Voter
Hm. I would tend to consider it reasonable. TPM is reporting Obama said such-and-such; Bob Casey is their source.
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FreeRider
December 15, 2009 4:22 PM
Those who think we can just kill this bill, elect more Democrats in November and start over are delusional.
If this stinker of a bill dies (a) we'll lose more seats and (b) no one, including this president, will go anywhere near healthcare reform for the next 25-30 years.
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VictorLH
December 15, 2009 4:24 PM in reply to FreeRider
We will lose seats if we pass this piece of shit Bill.
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FreeRider
December 15, 2009 4:28 PM in reply to VictorLH
Not nearly as many as we'll lose if we don't pass anything.
This may come as a shock to you but the overwhelming majority of people aren't into the details. This plays out Pass v. Fail.
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Overreach THIS!
December 15, 2009 5:19 PM in reply to FreeRider
I think this is correct and it's even a bit more stark probably:
Obama can either prevail on his key priorities when he's got a strong majority or else he can't and thus he's just a hopeless (add in racial epithets for some) loser.
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FreeRider
December 15, 2009 5:24 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
True dat!
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tiowally
December 15, 2009 4:25 PM
"[W]e're not going to get a chance like this for a long, long time," Casey told reporters, "maybe not in our lifetimes."
"Because we'll all have died," he added, "due to a lack of affordable health care."
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CT Voter
December 15, 2009 4:37 PM in reply to tiowally
Thanks for the laugh! Been a depressing day.
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Indie Pro
December 15, 2009 4:34 PM
One-third of Democrats would be less likely to vote in the 2010 elections if Democrats do not pass a health care bill that includes a government-run plan, or so-called "public option," according to a new poll
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vamonticello
December 15, 2009 4:36 PM in reply to Indie Pro
that poll is NOT true. 2/3 will be less likely to vote in 2010 if NOTHING gets passed. Bill Clinton proved that in 1993
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Indie Pro
December 15, 2009 4:39 PM in reply to vamonticello
the poll has more going for it than your baseless ascertain.
but your disagreement is acknowledged.
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vamonticello
December 15, 2009 4:35 PM
THIS BILL NEEDS TO PASS. The biggest backstabber in this whole debate has been Howard Dean. This man is trying to push his medicare buy-in plan that FAILED to get him elected in 2004. Now he is going on national tv trying to "Kill the Bill" What a disgrace. The democrats need to pass this bill and move on to other things. The 2010 election wont even be about healthcare by then it will be about the SUCCESS of democrats in DC.
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Indie Pro
December 15, 2009 4:37 PM in reply to vamonticello
he's advocating reconciliation:
"This is essentially the collapse of health care reform in the United States Senate. Honestly the best thing to do right now is kill the Senate bill, go back to the House, start the reconciliation process, where you only need 51 votes and it would be a much simpler bill."
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vamonticello
December 15, 2009 4:43 PM in reply to Indie Pro
if HOWARD DEAN & Anthony Weiner wouldve kept their MOUTH SHUT, the medicare buy-in wouldve still been in the bill. Lieberman changed his mind because he heard Weiner and Lieberman proclaim that the medicare buy-in was better than the public option....THAT IS THE MAIN REASON LIEBERMAN FLIP-FLOPPED. Howard Dean needs to STAY OUT of this debate, he is only making things worse
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Indie Pro
December 15, 2009 4:46 PM in reply to vamonticello
hilarious.
Well, Lieberman is the leader of the democratic party. If he blames liberals and progressvies for not shutting up, I'm sure that is the reason, and not his insurance inddustry sponsors. It's not like he'd like to marginalize liberals and progressives or anything. What Joe says goes!! Bow before the honest true words of Joe!
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AJM
December 15, 2009 9:13 PM in reply to vamonticello
Dean and Wiener made me do it? If Lieberman really believes that his thinking is remarkably similar to the man who was caught in the act of stabbing his girlfriend yelling look what you made me do.
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Indie Pro
December 15, 2009 4:41 PM in reply to vamonticello
and not to mention: The biggest backstabber in this whole debate
wow. just. wow. Not any of the number of conservative democrats, or Lieberman. You pick Dean.
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Progressive Party
December 15, 2009 4:42 PM in reply to vamonticello
you are so ass backward...Howard brought the dems majority in 2006 and 2008...Dean is too progressive for Obama and Rahm so he got the boot from the DNC. You like the way Kaine has run the DNC..pathetic!
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vamonticello
December 15, 2009 4:47 PM in reply to Progressive Party
Deans medicare buy-in LOST him the presidential election in 2004. He LOST, he LOST, he LOST...now he is trying to push his failed plan on Congress...he needs to stay out of this debate....he had his chance and FAILED now he should not make it more difficult for others.
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Progressive Party
December 15, 2009 4:53 PM in reply to vamonticello
you are a complete fool and have no understanding what Dean's accomplishmnets were to the democrtatic party...
Dean is responding to the needs of the middle class not his health care plan to congress. Single payer is the best option for univeral coverage for all which is the Democratic party platform. Your ignorance is what is frightening because you are like Lieberman in talking out of your ass!
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CT Voter
December 15, 2009 5:09 PM in reply to vamonticello
You're hysterical.
If it weren't for Dean insisting on the 50 state strategy, we'd still have razor thin majorities, if we had majorities at all. The 50 state strategy that was used by Obama (more like 22 something state strategy for Obama, but whatever). Dean has been supportive up until today, which should tell you something about the current state of reform. You should direct you anger towards Joe Lieberman and the Senate leadership (and Obama) who have ennabled Lieberman and made it quite plain to Lieberman that there are no consequences, none, for trying to screw Democrats. I loathe Lieberman, but I can't say I blame him for what he's doing: he knows there aren't any consequences.
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FreeRider
December 15, 2009 5:12 PM in reply to vamonticello
You're making shit up!!
1. Dean lost in 2004 because he is gaffe-prone and his mouth runs faster than his brain. He let himself get drawn into a fight with Gephardt in Iowa which allowed Kerry to win. After that, he was done.
2. Dean is not trying to push his "failed plan on Congress." That's an outright lie. 10 Democratic senators (5 liberals, 5 conservatives) came up with this Medicare Buy-In proposal. Later, Dean said it was a good idea. He was not involved in developing this plan.
3. Your efforts to malign him as responsible for everything that's wrong with healthcare is just as ridiculous as the claims that he saved the Democratic party.
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FreeRider
December 15, 2009 5:08 PM in reply to Progressive Party
Stop with the bullshit that Dean delivered the Democratic majorities in 2006 and 2008. We got the majority because of three things: (a) Dean put money into races previously ignored (b) Rahm & Schumer recruited candidates who could win their districts (c) the Republicans imploded!
This notion that Dean alone is responsible for leading Democrats out of the wilderness is crap.
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CT Voter
December 15, 2009 5:11 PM in reply to FreeRider
He's not entirely responsible for lreading Democrats out of the wilderness, but neither is he responsible for Lieberman's crap, which the poster is claiming.
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FreeRider
December 15, 2009 5:15 PM in reply to CT Voter
I've already taken Vamonticello to task for that outrageous lie!
Dean was an instrumental PART in helping us get back the majorities. But he is in no way responsible for this fucked up position we're in now with healthcare.
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Steve LaBonne
December 15, 2009 4:51 PM
Here's a practical suggestion. What should be passed now is a "clean" insurance regulation bill, no mandates to piss off voters, no subsidies (very regrettably) to extend coverage but give phony fiscal conservatives an excuse to filibuster (or a place to hang Stupak language).
The insurance companies will hate it, of course, since it will cut into their profits without compensating them out of our pockets. But if their opposition prevents Democrats from passing something that simple and that broadly popular, we're doomed.
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vamonticello
December 15, 2009 4:56 PM in reply to Steve LaBonne
car insurance is MANDATED with no PUBLIC OPTION and costs are under control.............ENOUGH SAID
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Steve LaBonne
December 15, 2009 4:58 PM in reply to vamonticello
That is a really, really stupid analogy on multiple levels- as has been pointed out a million times before. Let's just start with the fact that nobody forces you to buy a car.
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FreeRider
December 15, 2009 5:18 PM in reply to Steve LaBonne
It's not a stupid analogy. Only a moron believes that everyone could just swear off cars rather than have insurance.
Tell that to the hundreds of millions of people who live in places where there is no or very little public transportation.
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Tanjaoui
December 15, 2009 6:18 PM in reply to vamonticello
This is ridiculous. This plan is a regressive version of RomneyCare in Massachusetts, which now boasts the most expensive health care in the WORLD.
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wbgonne
December 15, 2009 4:57 PM in reply to Steve LaBonne
We are doomed. I've been thinking that for weeks. That aside, I like your idea of stripping the legislation down to insurance reform only. No mandate. Just tighter insurance regulation.
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Indie Pro
December 15, 2009 5:01 PM in reply to wbgonne
I think a case can still be made for the exchanges and subsidies, through the savings in Medicare waste. But yes. I agree as well.
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wbgonne
December 15, 2009 5:05 PM in reply to Indie Pro
Yes, I've seen you suggest that previously. My bottom line. No public option means no mandate. The rest I could live with.
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FreeRider
December 15, 2009 5:20 PM in reply to wbgonne
And we all know how much your bottom line matters. Did you send a telegram to the White House? I'm sure they're bending everything to you will right now.
Here's what you'll live with: whatever the fuck that passes!
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wbgonne
December 16, 2009 8:22 AM in reply to FreeRider
You are a nasty mofo, aren't you?
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FreeRider
December 16, 2009 9:03 AM in reply to wbgonne
And you're a dumbass mofo who issues meaningless threats, aren't you?!
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wbgonne
December 16, 2009 3:00 PM in reply to FreeRider
When I threaten you you will know it. Asshole.
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FreeRider
December 16, 2009 9:36 PM in reply to wbgonne
Threaten me? Hardly. You only threaten the Democratic party that you'll stay home or vote Republican. I'm sure they're quaking in their boots . . . just like me. Dumbass mofo.
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rstephen
December 15, 2009 6:03 PM
Alw'ys beatin up yer base is like beatin on yer wife. Obama's purdy good at beatin and betrayin his base, tho I'd like t'see 'im beat up on a banker or 'nsurins comp'ny now and ag'in fore d'cidin if he's got any guts.
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Tanjaoui
December 15, 2009 6:21 PM in reply to rstephen
Obama = gutless corporate Dem
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Oh! You can't be serious
December 15, 2009 6:41 PM
This is the form over substance. There is nothing in this bill that seems to be a real benefit to people despite the rhetoric. What in it is "reform". This is no benefit for people who might lose their insurance or be unable to get insurance at an affordable price. It basically offers nothing to most people. The only ones it effects it does so by forcing them to buy insurance. So it pisses off a minority and leaves the majority at the mercy of the insurance industry. What are they thinking? This is a failure of the administration to do what they said they would do. Despite Obama's speech, it has nothing worth passing.
They need to punish Lieberman. So what if he is important in climate change and SSM. Can they trust him when it comes to a vote? Even if they can those issues are not as important as real health care reform.
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antbnyc
December 15, 2009 7:22 PM in reply to Oh! You can't be serious
completely agree Oh! I wrote both my senators today to ask them to vote against this POS. It's worthless as reform, and worse than nothing at all because at least if nothing passes there will be another shot in a couple of years as the system implodes. If it passes, that's the end of "reform" for as far as the eye can see.
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MzTicketyBoo
December 15, 2009 7:40 PM
Why can't these "public servants" just do what is right instead of postering and flapping their jaws? Why don't we have outrage in the streets filled with people pressuring these fools to do the will of the people?
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Oh! You can't be serious
December 15, 2009 7:52 PM
One good thing that has come of this for me personally is a heightened sense of awareness. My wife and I gave something like between $10,000 and $20,000 to Democratic candidates and the DNC in the last two presidential election cycles (primaries and general elections). And we both worked phone banks for Obama which was tough since I dont like cold calling people and having them swear at me. Moving forward I dont need to feel like I need to waste the time. And we can save the money. Even better, the $10,000 we save might even buy a month of health insurance in the future.
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USgreentech
December 15, 2009 8:35 PM
They need to support it. Reconciliation is one of the most amazing concepts the Democrats are relying on. Moving ahead, Obama's way. Really fulfilling to have the legislation move through so easily.
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esecon
December 15, 2009 8:39 PM
It is amazing how so many folks are so uninformed. Republicans and others, are voting against a bill (healthcare Reform) that would actually benefit them financially. The guy in the Senate may be getting some kickback, but the average Joe gets nothing for opposing this bill. Still, he sticks with his Republican view. Hard to fathom. He's robbing his own pocket.
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tao
December 15, 2009 10:13 PM in reply to esecon
Not so much uniformed as disinformed thanks to a fourth estate run by conservatives. Nobody gets that stupid without help.
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madmatt
December 16, 2009 9:12 AM
There is no benefit to ANYBODY...no cost controls mean people still can't afford insurance, now they get penalized for it to. And prices are 30% higher than when the process started.
Republicans = rape
democrats = date rape
How is one better than the other?
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