Playing Hard to Get: Maine's Senators Suddenly Back in Play on HCR?

Of course they're back in play. There will be a trigger, which means there will be no public option. Can someone, ANYONE, cite a trigger that was ever pulled except Cheney pulling the trigger on his lawyer friend?

I keep asking this because I still don't understand. Why exactly is the "trigger" a helpful compromise? Snowe would clearly be just as happy without it and no one in the Democratic caucus, as far as I can tell, thinks the trigger is any kind of substantive reform. So whose vote is actually being bought with this nonsense? I mean, I know there are maybe one or two Senators that are dumb enough or cynical enough to play along with it, but are there as many as 10? Is there a single Public option advocate out there in the real world who will be at all placated by a trigger?

It seems to me that if you are going to give up on the public option, you might actually want to negotiate for some sort of real concession, like maybe better subsidies or stricter insurance regulations, but to give it up for something like a "trigger" which is everyone knows is basically imaginary, seems ill-advised. It isn't good policy and the political value completely escapes me?

why quibble over crumbs?

In the hours and days afterward, it became clear that a clean sweep would be difficult, if not impossible.

It was quite clear long before to those who did the arithmetic, including the administration. What bloggers once referred to as pushback by the administration was skepticism due to the realities these bloggers now seem to have suddenly grasped.

It seems pretty clear that a real public option is something that will have to be done using budget reconcilation rules in a future Democratic administration -- that is, if the next Republican administration doesn't completely destroy the country first.

What's really a pisser is the thought that Obama could have gotten it all if not for the stimulus and the Wall Street bailout, which used up most of his first year mojo.

Just goes to show: In a capitalist system, the capitalists win even when they lose.

I am not so sure, that centrists are wielding all negotiating chips here. A substantial number of progressive senators have compromised so much now, that they have little to lose by opposing the health bill. The carper option, actually doesn't look that bad. It seems to be windowdressing to allow the centrists to save face and get on board. An opt in, opt out and trigger all together are fine with me. The essential part is to allow 20 or so solid blue states to launch a respectable public option as soon as possible. Once it has become a daily reality like Medicare/Medicaid, removed from the political fever of congress, it will not be controversial for other states to opt in. The next health care battle will focus on health care cost controls and intense regulation of insurance companies. I think the dem's may finally realize that they have 10 months to motivate the base. Snowe and Collins know that given their moderate electorate they cannot afford to have their vote to kill health care reform hang over their heads like a political albatross once the economy has recovered and other issues take on a more prominent position in voters' priorities.

If progressives will bend on the public option to get something more timely and with a closer deadline to '10 and '12 elections, I think you could see some political movement. The moderates on both sides, well the two (maybe three with Voinovich) from the GOP, could probably sign onto that as well. This is most certainly the art of the possible.

You can bet your bottom dollar that MOST encumbents will NOT be getting the votes they want come election time. IF they do then we'll have nobody to blame BUT OURSELVES. They are ALL worthless and do nothing for the people. They spew contempt for the general public at ever vote. They sell us out with every penny they accept from lobbyists. Do we really want to vote these clowns BACK INTO OFFICE?

Shouldn't the mandate be placed on the dissecting table as well?

Without a robust public option, it is draconian to require every citizen to pump profits into private insurance corporations. No doubt a portion of those government-coerced gains would be used to campaign against future reforms.

If incrementalism is the name of the game, wouldn't it be better to do a little good rather than hand ammo to anti-reformers.

Regulate, don't mandate.

For fuck's sake... we're back to fluffing President Snowe again.

The Democratic Party: Incompetents In Action

The Bush Administration got the Patriot Act, a series Bush Tax Cuts, Medicare Plan D, FISA "Reform", Dick's Giveaway To Big Energy, Bankruptcy "Reform", Two Wingnuts On The SCORUSA, Telecom Immunity, the Military Commissions Act, creation of the Department Of Homeland Security... and leading us into Two Viet Nams For The Price Of One.

The Obama Admin can't even get the *easy* one done: Healthcare which was a central element of the 2008 election that the entire party ran on in that cycle.

We're the Keystone Kops of politics. It's an embarassment to vote for them, and the notion that the Enthusiasm Gap that's going to be dead in 2010 is going to magically reappear in the run up 2012 is seriously hitting the crack pipe. If we get our asses kicked in 2010, watch the GOP dig in deeper with the Dem margin in the House and Senate reduced to the point that not a thing will get done without far worse concessions than we've seen in Healthcare and the Stim.

"We're All Californians Now"
-John from SoCal knowing where up fucked up Federal Gov is heading

Complete and utter sell-out by a party in full control of the government negotiating against itself (and badly at that). Disgraceful. Total Bag Job from the beginning. That's why Obama never stood up and tried to lead the country on health care. He just sat there like a potted plant while the health care bill was gutted. He didn't say or do anything because he knew how this would end. No Health Insurance Company Left Behind. Democrats should be ashamed but, like the Republicans, they have no shame. They just want money and power for themselves. Good luck pretending this piece of crap is real health care reform. The Republicans might pull that kind of thing off but the Dems are far too inept. For god's sake, they are getting whipped by MORONS.

Am I bitter? You betcha.

We do have time for incrementalism. It's the only thing that ever works. Social security left out 2/3 of all blacks. But it was amended later. Without some bill, future remedy is all but impossible.

Obama has been president for ten months! He's planting the seeds for transformation. Results will start to be seen next year. Major change takes major time.

its a piece of crap !!! all citizens should have healthcare. and politicians shouldn't have better then us. we are turning into a oligarchy, not a republic. as for illegal immigrants, screw 'em, as a matter of law if they are here illegally they are felons. there, i said it.

here we go a 3 way fight, a 'mo, a anarchist, and a good citizen.

"you sound like joe stalin who stated that anyone who disagreed with him 'was an enemy of the people'."

1. Substantiate that Stalin said that.

2. You are not "the people". You are an individual who aligns himself with far-right lunatic fringe America-hating.

3. Explain why you keep qouting actual or fictional statements by Commies with which you agree, while pretending you aren't a Commie.

"he was a know it all too."

Like you, of course; isn't that why you quote him (and Mao) approvingly?

"but he had the guns. in the end, he died,"

Appears to me there's a lesson in there waving frantically in effort to get your attention.

"which i wish you would do."

Ah, a Christian gun-nut!