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Poll: Majority Favor Waterboarding Flight 253 Suspect
Flight 253 suspect Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab
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A new Rasmussen poll finds that voters want to go to great lengths against Flight 253 bombing suspect Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, with a majority saying he should be waterboarded to extract information.
The poll asked: "Should waterboarding and other aggressive interrogation techniques be used to gain information from the suspected bomber?" The result was 58% yes, to only 30% who said no.
The internals shouldn't be too surprising: "Men and younger voters are more strongly supportive of the aggressive interrogation techniques than women and those who are older. Republicans and voters not affiliated with either major party favor their use more than Democrats."
The poll also found that 71% want the event to be investigated by military authorities as a terrorist act, to only 22% who want it to be investigated by civilian authorities as a criminal act. (Note, however, that this phrasing of the question is a bit different than if respondents had been asked about trying the suspect at a military commission or a criminal court.)
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Stroszek
December 31, 2009 10:51 AM
Rasmussen also found that 100% of respondents think Scott Rasmussen is awesome.
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lousgirl84
December 31, 2009 12:32 PM in reply to Stroszek
They must have polled red neck right wing tea baggers
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Hopalong
January 1, 2010 10:38 AM in reply to lousgirl84
No, real Americans believe that waterboarding is to mild for Abdulmutallab. What he really needs is a battery acid enema topped off with a Crusader Cross butt plug!
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blkblt
January 1, 2010 11:40 AM in reply to Hopalong
I don't think this should come as any surprise. There has always been more than a bit of revenge involved in torturing terrorists.
It's kind of refreshing to have the pro-torture guys come out and say what we all know. They aren't extracting information, they are getting even.
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Hopalong
January 1, 2010 12:39 PM in reply to blkblt
It's not revenge we seek, but methods to discourage these Muslims from killing us.
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Seraph
January 2, 2010 3:17 PM in reply to Hopalong
You're doing it wrong, then. If you want to make an example, it has to be public. No locking "these muslims" away from the light of day in Gitmo, no quiet renditions to other countries to do the torturing for us. Hang, draw and quarter him live on international TV! Or break him on the wheel! Grill him alive! Whatever, as long it happens somewhere that "these muslims" can see!
That'll show the world what the U.S.A. is made of!
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blkblt
January 16, 2010 9:15 AM in reply to Hopalong
But your playing right into their hands. Muslim extremists will point to every instance of torture or violence and use it to reinforce their point that the west is trying to destroy Islam.
Just look at the guy who blew up the CIA agents. He was a doctor radicalized by the images that came out of Abu Ghraib.
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Indie Pro
December 31, 2009 11:01 AM
"aggressive interrogation techniques"!
that alone shows the position of the pollster
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chimpale
December 31, 2009 11:02 AM
Why does it not surprise me that Rasmussen would ask a question like that?
Oh yes, it's a hot debate going on out there in the heartland: To torture or not to torture.
Why not make it multiple choice? How about we see how waterboarding stacks up against ripping off fingernails, genital crushing, and sodomizing with a red hot iron?
That would sure have Rasmussen's preferred respondents drooling.
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ericf
December 31, 2009 11:08 AM
Even if we adjust the results for distrust of Rasmussen, they still indicate a lot of support for torture, and this isn't the first pol to indicate it. The most shocking thing about Bush's use of torture was that a large minority, and sometimes a majority, are OK with it. Pre-Bush, I never would have expected that. That might explain why it's politically so hard to get rid of.
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chimpale
December 31, 2009 11:50 AM in reply to ericf
I suspect that it's getting a response now that's similar to what capital punishment was before we started hearing about so many people being freed after DNA evidence proved them not guilty.
The public may have heard and understood that there have been innocent people rounded up and sent to Gitmo or Abu Ghraib and tortured there, or that experts agree that torture doesn't provide reliable information, or that our worst misinformation leading up to the invasion of Iraq came via torture. But, they forget when it isn't fresh in their minds.
Waterboarding is okay with them so long as the subject, the method, and a sober evaluation of its effectiveness are still very remote to them.
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JimmyBobby
December 31, 2009 12:50 PM in reply to chimpale
...and it doesn't hurt if the subject is dark-skinned.
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pittprof
December 31, 2009 1:06 PM in reply to JimmyBobby
Sadly, you are right.
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jenzinoh
December 31, 2009 1:10 PM in reply to JimmyBobby
and there we are... if you ask a bunch of middle-class American suburbanites who happen to be white about torture, they are likely cool with it because of who the torture victims are going to be...the "Other". Now, if we were to follow precedent by the Bush administration and apply torture to domestic terrorists, i.e. Scott Roeder (who claimed to have knowledge of future attacks on abortion providers), et. al, the answer might be different. Scott Roeder looks like the guy down the street or the next door neighbor.
So long as it is someone who can't possibly be you because of what they look like, it's cool.
Well, that and they buy into the "24" lie that you actually get actionable intelligence from torture.
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midnight rambler
December 31, 2009 1:41 PM in reply to chimpale
FWIW, I don't recall seeing a big drop in public support for the death penalty since people started getting freed. Hell, Rick Perry is actively obstructing an investigation into the execution of a guy who was pretty clearly innocent, and it's barely making a ripple.
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chimpale
December 31, 2009 2:19 PM in reply to midnight rambler
It's still above 50% in favor, but it's dropped markedly:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/gallup-poll-support-death-penalty-remains-near-25-year-low
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Middleclassvotingbloc
December 31, 2009 1:06 PM in reply to ericf
If you ask the question to 99.9 percent Republicans you will always get torture.
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ProgressiveInNewYork
December 31, 2009 11:12 AM
Another score for the destruction of the American character.
Do these people have reasoning ability? The reason WE don't torture is so that our soldiers won't be subjected to it.
Not to mention being immoral, wrong, unproductive and just criminal.
If we as a nation believe torture is correct under any circumstances, then we have lost all moral standards. We have ceded American leadership to the terrorists. By sinking to the level of barbarians we have become them.
Shame, shame shame
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Avvocato
December 31, 2009 11:13 AM
The POS is spilling his guts out now anyway. He WANTS to talk. Torture will provide data mostly bad ('cause he'll want to seem to be cooperating).
Folks, torture doesn't really work. We watch too many movies and TV shows that fictionalize its effectiveness.
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Barry Champlain
December 31, 2009 11:27 AM in reply to Avvocato
But had Rasmussen added what you just said... that the POS was talking; however, should we torture him anyway?... I think you can pretty much guess what the beer-pong crowd would have said.
Which is all the demonstration you need, as to why the Founding Fathers did not, in fact, make this nation a direct democracy. You think we're fucked now? Ha.
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lousgirl84
December 31, 2009 12:34 PM in reply to Avvocato
The thugs just like to torture people. No matter the guy has already spilled his guts, just take him to some torture chamber and torture him for fun, after all he is an African muslim just like the President!!!!
Pathetic
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superking
December 31, 2009 11:14 AM
There were no criminal prosecutions for those Americans who waterboarded or ordered waterboarding, therefore it isn't a crime. Of course Americans want to use all legal avenues of interrogation - and thanks to the Bush/Obama axis, waterboarding has become recognized by Americans as a legal avenue of interrogation.
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ProgressiveInNewYork
December 31, 2009 11:35 AM in reply to superking
WRONG!!
Torture is not and never has been "recognized by Americans as a legal avenue of interrogation."
Just because bush did it does NOT make it legal.
You are a barbarian by your words. If words have consequences may the new year bring yours.
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superking
December 31, 2009 11:55 AM in reply to ProgressiveInNewYork
60% of Americans polled disagree with your contention. I guarantee those 60% think it's a legal form of interrogation. I'm part of the opposition 30% by the way. Because Bush ordered it and Obama declined to investigate or prosecute it, that means (to many Americans) that it isn't a crime.
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ProgressiveInNewYork
December 31, 2009 12:47 PM in reply to superking
60% by the Rasmussen poll? So one right wing talking point poll shows Americans favor torture. This organization has been shown to wrong on so many occasions.
And frankly I don't care if 100% of this country favored torture.
IT IS WRONG.
Non debatable.
It is barbaric and counter-productive.
If you believe in it you are on the same level as the Nazis, Khmer Rouge, drug cartels and North Korea. Congratulations, you're a barbarian.
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superking
December 31, 2009 1:59 PM in reply to ProgressiveInNewYork
I'm not trying to debate whether it's wrong or not, I'm explaining to you why you're seeing the results you're seeing from Rasmussen (which swings towards the GOP 3%, not a significant margin in this case). Political decisions "not to look back" have consequences, this isn't rocket science.
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Hechicera
December 31, 2009 5:44 PM in reply to superking
Popular and legal are not the same.
There was a time when lynching was popular too. Hopefully we will look back at this time with the same kind of distaste most now look at the days of popular lynchings. I see much the same dynamic anyway.
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chimpale
December 31, 2009 11:57 AM in reply to ProgressiveInNewYork
I don't think superking was advocating that torture be legal. He was saying that its status has been left in a state where it's still sanctioned and for all intents and purposes is legal, since the current administration has balked at prosecuting anyone for it.
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mardam
December 31, 2009 12:18 PM in reply to superking
What the hell is the matter with you? Are you that devoid of humanity?
I fear for this nation, not because of those who want to kill us, but because of those who actually call themselves "American".
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Silence
December 31, 2009 12:22 PM in reply to mardam
True. I really don't know what has happened to this country.
The proper recourse is to put a bullet in his head and call it day.
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slb
December 31, 2009 3:37 PM in reply to Silence
Summary execution -- the American way. Right.
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Matt Jones
December 31, 2009 6:19 PM in reply to Silence
We'll remember that opinion when a teabagger takes a shot at Obama.
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lousgirl84
December 31, 2009 3:09 PM in reply to mardam
Amen to that!!!
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susanai
December 31, 2009 11:51 PM in reply to lousgirl84
Excuse me!
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Silence
December 31, 2009 11:30 AM
This forum has people hoping that Rush Limbaugh, a man who has broken no laws, suffers a long painful death. Yet, a terrorist who attempts to kill hundreds on Christmas day receives a pass.
Don't hurt the Islamic terrorist who wants to kill everyone of you!
You guys are really something. lol
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ProgressiveInNewYork
December 31, 2009 11:48 AM in reply to Silence
Broke no laws - I guess drug laws don't count.
The blowhard who is rush deserves a special corner in hell.
Equating reactions to his continual fabrications, lies, distortions and attacks to thinking torture is justified under any circumstances is beyond belief.
TORTURE is wrong. Period. Not justifiable, ever. If for no other reason than to protect our people serving in the military. But of course those who never have served always see war, torture, aggression as the answer.
It's the cause.
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Silence
December 31, 2009 12:12 PM in reply to ProgressiveInNewYork
RL was never convicted.
No. I'm afraid I can't rally for the death of a pain med addicted talk show host while caring deeply for a rich boy terrorist who attempted to blow up hundreds of innocent people.
Nope. Can't seem to wrap my arms around that one.
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superking
December 31, 2009 12:17 PM in reply to Silence
Whether or not you "care" about a given terrorist is irrelevant to the subject of US and International law that governs interrogations of people in government custody.
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ericf
December 31, 2009 12:26 PM in reply to Silence
Not convicted? Wow. How did I let myself get fooled by his guilty plea?
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Silence
December 31, 2009 12:29 PM in reply to ericf
It is my understanding that the charges were dropped the record expunged in exchange for rehab. It's good to be a wealthy American. Ask OJ.
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Seraph
December 31, 2009 1:14 PM in reply to Silence
We "care deeply" for the honor of the United States, which torturers and their apologists threw away like garbage because they were so fucking scared. As a country and as a civilization, we're supposed to be better than the goddamn Spanish Inquisition, who at least recognized that waterboarding is torture.
We "care deeply" about getting good, actionable (in both the military and judicial sense) information, which torture does not provide.
We "care deeply" about not providing propaganda material for Al-Qaeda and not setting a precedent for treatment of prisoners that will come back to bite our own troops.
And we "care deeply" about the fact that the purpose of torture is torture, the purpose of torture is to create fear, and once a government has that power in its hands, it's all-too-easy to turn it on their own citizens. See Jose Padilla.
So spare us your lectures, you pathetic coward. You don't give a damn if this country's soul rots out as long as you can win some stupid political game of "Gotcha Last", but you think you're the real patriot here because you have a flag and an eagle on your icon. Sorry, buddy, but that's "patriotism" the same way that doing "everything but" is "chastity". Why don't you crawl back to the right side of the blogosphere and leave the people who actually care about this country alone?
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Silence
December 31, 2009 2:48 PM in reply to Seraph
Yes. By all means give the terrorist a star studded trial like the one given to OJ. Then, the world would love us again!
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lousgirl84
December 31, 2009 3:11 PM in reply to Silence
Like the star-studded criminal trial the Bush admin gave to Richard Reid. Seems you thugs never complained then. I remember the Bush admin bragging about the system working as Richard Reid sits in a maximum security prison.
You people are so pathetic it makes my head hurt.
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Silence
December 31, 2009 3:49 PM in reply to lousgirl84
I always knew you were a secret Bush lova'.
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Signalman
December 31, 2009 6:27 PM in reply to Silence
I love Bush, but not the Bush you think and not in the way you mean.
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Seraph
December 31, 2009 3:13 PM in reply to Silence
Oh, stop whining you big crybaby. No one's going to let the big, scawy tewwowist hurt you.
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Scott in PacNW
January 1, 2010 3:40 PM in reply to Silence
Yes, it's been ages since I've seen Kato. Those were the days.
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Stroszek
December 31, 2009 11:48 AM in reply to Silence
I don't want to see either tortured by my government, but I wouldn't mind if natural causes took down anyone who consciously works to see America fail... a category that includes both Rush and Umar.
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Why oh why
December 31, 2009 11:52 AM in reply to Silence
Actually, Rush Limbaugh has broken several laws over the years, and would be in jail if he were a poor young man.
And you think 'not getting tortured' equals 'receiving a pass'? Go back to a forum more suited to your perverse, deluded fantasies.
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Michael A
December 31, 2009 12:04 PM in reply to Silence
Oh, lush will get what he deserves in time. Noone as far as I have seen wishes him any ill will. Bad Karma. He mouth is responsible for ginning up hate crimes and death and destruction. He will get what he deserves.
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jollyroger
December 31, 2009 3:51 PM in reply to Michael A
ill will
Let me step up to the plate...when I first heard the news, I sent a visualized dagger to his heart--He is a running sore on the psyche of America. I *wish he were dead--it's not personal, it's just business..."
*Plush is hereby free to wish me dead in return--let's see who is the better magician.
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chimpale
December 31, 2009 12:18 PM in reply to Silence
Ah, the beloved straw man. A right-winger's best friend.
Rush Limbaugh: The guy who has scoffed at concerns about our nation's health care as being a liberal obsession and somehow impinging on his rights. A guy who doesn't know the difference between torture and a good ol' frat house hazing. The guy who said this about Jerry Garcia when he died: "Just another dead doper. And a dirt bag."
Abdulmutallab: The terrorist is in custody. He will be tried in the exact same way as the Bush administration tried another terrorist who attempted to do the same thing. Did Richard Reid get a pass? Did you complain about him? Were you demanding that he be tortured? The ideal is that any further attempts like this will be thwarted by the use of good intelligence, applied effectively. That's the most important thing we should want to get out of this. The Bush administration got plenty of bad intelligence by using torture, and unfortunately they relied heavily upon it.
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Signalman
December 31, 2009 6:31 PM in reply to chimpale
+1
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lilysdaddy
December 31, 2009 12:38 PM in reply to Silence
I don't see anyone recommending torturing Limbaugh and I don't think anyone on this thread would cry if Abdulmutallab had a heart attack.
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Seraph
December 31, 2009 1:24 PM in reply to Silence
Bad analogy. If, instead of wishing a heart attack upon Limbaugh, we were wishing that someone would kill him, you might have a proper comparison - but only if someone had already killed several right-wing radio hosts.
It also shows just how little respect you have for American law that you consider "slam-dunk trial after which he goes to supermax for the rest of his life" to be "getting a pass", as long as he isn't tortured.
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Tralbry
January 1, 2010 9:15 PM in reply to Silence
"Hoping" is meaningless, not that I ever did so. With the bomber we're not talking about "hoping" someone gets waterboarded, we're talking about the US govt doing it and committing a war crime.
I can "hope" Rush wises up. It won't make it so.
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attymatty
December 31, 2009 11:32 AM
Well, the kid is black.
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Silence
December 31, 2009 12:18 PM in reply to attymatty
African. Expect a visit from the thought police today.
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Signalman
January 1, 2010 3:23 PM in reply to Silence
Oh, you failed to call him "black." Expect a visit from the NRSC today. You have failed to show proper conservative ideological and racial sentiment. It'll be off to the reeducation camps for you. I hear Michelle Malkin runs them.
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CranialRectalLoopback
December 31, 2009 11:33 AM
Thank God we're a Christian nation. Oh, and how many ticking time bombs detonated during Khalil Sheikh Mohammed's 180+ waterboarding sessions? My guess would be 180+.
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pittprof
December 31, 2009 1:07 PM in reply to CranialRectalLoopback
Hear, hear!
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Michael A
December 31, 2009 12:01 PM
Notwithstanding Ratsmussen's reich-wing skew, this poll is distressing. The war on education is posting dividends once again. How can people be so stupid? It's incredible.
Our prior great leaders and founding fathers must be turning over in their graves. Lincoln, Roosevelt, Washington, Jefferson, etc., etc. If this poll was taken by a reich-winger in the 40's people would not have wanted the germans or japanese tortured, notwithstanding their crimes. We prosecuted them after the war for water boarding for pete's sake. This is really outrageous. In the 21st Century no less. We are going backward big time.
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Bloggin
December 31, 2009 12:06 PM
Maybe this will make it clear why Rassmussen polls always show lower numbers for Democrats:
As of 2009, Scott Rasmussen is the President of Rasmussen Reports. He describes himself as having "been an independent pollster for more than a decade" who "[l]ike the company he started, [...] maintains his independence and has never been a campaign pollster or consultant for candidates seeking office".
However, the Center for Public Integrity listed his firm as having been paid $95,500 by the Republican National Committee and $45,500 by the George W. Bush presidential campaign in 2003-4.
Republicans often use his polling to make their arguments. “Republicans right now are citing our polls more than Democrats because it’s in their interest to do so,” Scott Rasmussen said. “I would not consider myself a political conservative — that implies an alignment with Washington politics that I don’t think I have.”
But in the early days of his polling firm, when it was named Rasmussen Research, Rasmussan advocated for conservative views.
For a short time around the 2000 elections Scott Rasmussen wrote a column for WorldNetDaily, which describes itself as an "Independent conservative news website with an emphasis on aggressive investigative reporting".
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docrocktex
December 31, 2009 12:11 PM
These poll results are a load of crap.
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WCG
December 31, 2009 12:27 PM
How did we Americans become such cowards? I really don't get it. And the gun-loving, macho, posturing right-wing, convinced they have a guaranteed ticket to a heavenly afterlife, seem to be the most cowardly of us all. How did that happen?
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Silence
December 31, 2009 12:55 PM in reply to WCG
It's called war.
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Seraph
December 31, 2009 1:17 PM in reply to Silence
Which we've managed to fight before without officially sanctioning torture. We fought the Nazis without sinking to this.
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
December 31, 2009 2:29 PM in reply to Seraph
And we sent Japanese officers to prison for 10- 20 years as war criminals for doing it. Waterboarding.
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Silence
December 31, 2009 2:50 PM in reply to Seraph
We bombed them.
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Seraph
December 31, 2009 3:11 PM in reply to Silence
Yes, we did. But we also captured some of them alive. And when we did, we interrogated them without torture, and we gained useful information.
And when it was all over, we gave them trials.
I know you're pants-wettingly scared, but come on: is your sense of proportion so totally gone that you think these losers are actually more of a threat to us than the Nazis?
Oh...one more note about the Nazis. They did torture prisoners for information, but it didn't work too well for them. The French Resistance asked its members to hold out just 24 hours under Gestapo torture, during which time they would scrap and change all plans the captured member had been aware of. The Dutch resistance, on the other hand, told its agents to start talking immediately - and to tell such a wealth of lies that, when they finally broke, it would be impossible to tell what was the truth.
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Michael A
December 31, 2009 3:18 PM in reply to Seraph
Oh, they don't care about facts. They want to stick to the "24" script. It's much more "manly" in their warped sense of reality.
The WWII references are telling. The greatest generation would never have thought of torturing people. That's what the criminal Nazis did. It was a rallying cry for the allies to go after the japanese and nazis. They tortured. We were above that and treated the prisoners humanely.
It really is disgusting what the right-wingers have stooped to. And on top of it they get bent out of shape at being compared to Nazis? They are Nazis. They want to torture people. How more Nazi-like can you be?
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Silence
December 31, 2009 3:21 PM in reply to Seraph
They were military personnel. Many of them never wanted to fight in the first place. They were called up.
So, you're willing to hand these blood-sucking terrorists that legitimacy?
Yup. I've heard it all now.
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Michael A
December 31, 2009 3:31 PM in reply to Silence
No, you are giving the blood sucking terrorists legitimacy by making them soldiers and warriors in a psuedo war. You are giving them legitimacy by whining about treating them as common criminals and throwing them in jail. You want to make martyrs and soldiers out of them. How dumb and blind can you be?
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Silence
December 31, 2009 3:45 PM in reply to Michael A
I said it once and I'll say it again. A dimple in the forehead.
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Seraph
December 31, 2009 3:53 PM in reply to Silence
Yes, yes, we know you want the scary man to go away as quickly as possible. Don't worry, the grownups won't let him get you.
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Silence
December 31, 2009 4:07 PM in reply to Seraph
He almost blew up a bunch of kids on that plane. Where were you? Let me guess. Sitting at home whining about health care and reading the Huffington post.
I'll tell you what. If you ever find a terrorist on your plane, talk to him. Sing him a lullaby. Explain that education will solve all of his problems.
Me? I'm going to bash his camel humping skull in with the seat back tray table. Let's see whose method works best.
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Seraph
December 31, 2009 4:23 PM in reply to Silence
And then you'll torture Bin Laden's location out of him, go to Afghanistan and personally put a dimple in his forehead. We know.
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Signalman
December 31, 2009 6:33 PM in reply to Silence
What makes you think someone like me wouldn't do the same as you in that situation?
Because you're a dishonest, dissembling liar. And it's easier for you to set up and knock down straw men than it is for you to actually debate what others *really* think, mean and believe.
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chimpale
December 31, 2009 10:27 PM in reply to Signalman
Let's see now. According to the right-wingers, liberals are a bunch of wimpy weaklings who are afraid to confront a terrorist, and at the same time liberals are oppressive tyrants who are going to round up all of the Republicans and put them in concentration camps.
Just call me Adolf Gandhi.
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Michael A
December 31, 2009 5:37 PM in reply to Silence
And, like I said, you want to make martyrs and soldiers out of them. Reich-wing propoganda is just pumping them up and creating the problem.
Brilliant move, coward. I'd rather see them locked up with the likes of the crips and the bloods and see how long they last. That's what they deserve. I am sure terrorists rank right up their with child molestors in the penal system. They wouldn't last two minutes.
But no, lets make heros out of them. Fool.
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Silence
December 31, 2009 5:41 PM in reply to Michael A
Of course, they wouldn't do any recruiting in jail. Nah.
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Michael A
December 31, 2009 6:18 PM in reply to Silence
You really are a scared fool. No wonder they keep coming after us, because of whimps like you.
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Silence
December 31, 2009 6:38 PM in reply to Michael A
Let me guess. You were the pasty looking kid who had the crap beaten out of him everyday on the way to school. You kept telling yourself that if you ignored the bullies, they would stop and possibly become your friend.
Or.......
You suffer from battered wife syndrome. Although you've endured multiple broken bones, bruises and a badly busted up face, you keep telling yourself that you're the strong one because you won't fight leave or fight back. To this day, you're still cooking his dinners and fetching his beers.
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Michael A
December 31, 2009 7:09 PM in reply to Silence
You are too funny. I actually was the guy who kicked people's asses, but I got so big, that I at one point stopped because I was afraid I might really hurt someone. People never threatened me because I was a foot taller than whimps like you.
You on the otherhand were apparently that coward who was always afraid of everyone but was all big talk. The minute someone stood up to you and called you on it, you would run away and cry to mommy. Know your type very well.
I would suggest you sign up and put your money were your mouth is. Go fight some of those mean old terrorists in Afghanistan.
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Silence
December 31, 2009 7:39 PM in reply to Michael A
Already did my time.
Hey. Happy New Year to all of my pot smokin', acid dropping, hemp weaving liberal friends.
Remember, the answer my friend, is blowin' in the wind. The answer is blowin' in the wind.
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Signalman
January 1, 2010 3:17 PM in reply to Silence
"Already did my time."
You are a liar.
You never served.
A veteran wouldn't try to impugn another veteran -- like you have tried to do to me.
And a veteran wouldn't try to claim that a disabled veteran didn't come by their service-connected disability honestly -- like you have tried to do to me.
An actual veteran, when confronted by another veteran, would identify himself/herself as well as his/her service -- which you have not done.
For those reasons and others, I call BULLSHIT on your claim of military service.
You are a mendacious, dissembling liar, and not fit to polish my Army-issued boots.
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Silence
January 2, 2010 1:11 PM in reply to Signalman
LOL. Sure. You're one of the millions of new 'internet veterans'. It's amazing how many have popped up in recent years..just amazing.
Who would ever question or call out a poor 'disabled vet'?
You guys crack me up. Who do you think you're fooling?
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Seraph
January 2, 2010 3:31 PM in reply to Silence
Yes, isn't it amazing how many veterans crop up on the internet after eight years of war in the internet age?
And of course, the obvious question: why should we take your claims of military service any more seriously than you did Signalma's?
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Silence
January 2, 2010 6:20 PM in reply to Seraph
You shouldn't. That's the point.
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Seraph
January 2, 2010 10:16 PM in reply to Silence
That's good, because I don't.
In contrast, I take Signalma at his(her?) word for now, because s/he has given me no reason to doubt it.
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Signalman
January 8, 2010 10:34 AM in reply to Silence
Come on, tough guy. Tell us *all about* your military service.
Let's start with service dates, units in which you served or were attached and any service schools you attended.
Your responses ought to be an excellent indicator of whether or not you actually served, which, by the way, I don't believe for a moment that you actually did.
BTW, in some cases, misrepresenting oneself as a military veteran, or misrepresenting the character of one's service (to include claiming or wearking decorations to which one is not actually entitled) can constitute a Federal felony. So, as you can imagine, I'm really interested in seeing your responses.
In other words,
BRING
IT
ON
:p
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Signalman
January 8, 2010 9:36 AM in reply to Silence
"LOL. Sure. You're one of the millions of new 'internet veterans'. It's amazing how many have popped up in recent years..just amazing."
I've been a veteran for over 20 years, so there's nothing new about me. You, however, are no veteran. You're a dishonorable and mendacious liar.
"Who would ever question or call out a poor 'disabled vet'?"
Lots of people would and do. But they're smart enough not to question the military service of a disabled vet when they do so, like you have tried to do to me. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with a disabled vet; everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But to disagree with a disabled vet and then to make some kind of snarky claim that he's either not a vet or not disabled -- both of which you've done to me -- well, that just marks you as a non-serving, non-veteran sack of horsepoop.
If I met you on the street, I'd knock you on your butt for what you've said to me.
"You guys crack me up. Who do you think you're fooling?"
Well, the Department of Defense gave me a DD-214 (look it up, non-veteran moron) and an Honorable Discharge certificate, and the Veterans' Administration gave me a Disability Rating Letter, so I'd say the only person being fooled here is *you,* Champ.
And you're only fooling yourself.
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Signalman
January 1, 2010 3:25 PM in reply to Silence
Pretty hard to recruit in a maximum-security facility when your butt is locked in a cell for 23+ hours a day.
Want to explain how the terrist-recrootin' happens under those circumstances, Champ?
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SchrodingersCat
December 31, 2009 1:32 PM in reply to Silence
You f'ing coward. So much for "Give me liberty or give me death", eh?
You wingnuts are all the same: you talk a lot of shit but at the first hint of trouble you curl up in a fetal position and proceed to wet your pants. You should all be ashamed of yourselves: it's YOUR handwringing and whining that gives the terrorists the power and attention that they seek.
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Silence
December 31, 2009 2:42 PM in reply to SchrodingersCat
Well, what you like to do with this clown? Take him out to dinner? Give the poor, deprived terrorist special friendship gifts in hopes that he'll be thankful enough to dole out info. on his little friends?
Unfortunately, he's from a very well to-do family, so your precious love tokens are not going to move him in any way. He wants to kill you.
Torture? No. One round, planted right in his little Muslim beanie head. That would spare us the torture of watching a bunch of bleeding heart libs whine and slobber for a cold-blooded terrorist.
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Seraph
December 31, 2009 3:47 PM in reply to Silence
1) He is doling out info, idiot.
2) We want to act like Americans, not sniveling cowards who throw away everything we're supposed to stand for as soon as we get a little scared. He's a criminal, he gets a trial.
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jollyroger
December 31, 2009 3:59 PM in reply to Seraph
He is doling out info, idiot.
Oh, the fiendish cleverness, so adroitly to neuter our legion of "hard men". Damn him, he can't talk his way out of being tortured! We will have blood! (Information is secondary)
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SchrodingersCat
December 31, 2009 4:14 PM in reply to Silence
So the only choices are either "love tokens" or a bullet in the head? I don't think that staring at a wall 23 hrs a day in a Supermax prison is a "special friendship gift". You're a dipshit and, I'll repeat, a coward.
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Michael A
December 31, 2009 2:23 PM in reply to Silence
Really? You yellow belly.
Why aren't you at the front defending the homeland from the 10 foot tall terrorist monsters trying to take away our freedoms? Next time you try to fly a plane, make sure you request a body cavity search to show your patriotism.
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Silence
December 31, 2009 3:48 PM in reply to Michael A
I'm sure our celebrity lawyers will have them sh*ting their pants.
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Signalman
December 31, 2009 6:29 PM in reply to Silence
I served, you didn't. Right?
So WTF do you think YOU know about war, ya nutless wonder?
GFY.
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Signalman
January 8, 2010 10:38 AM in reply to Silence
Please show us the Congressional Declaration of War that applies to the "GWOT."
I do not believe you will be able to find it.
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ru4862
December 31, 2009 1:02 PM
What's worst than these bogus Rasmussen FOX OWNED poll numbers is Eric's failure to cut through the bull.
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Middleclassvotingbloc
December 31, 2009 1:04 PM
Of course the Ramussen Poll found that the majority favor waterboarding--what TMC and Ramussen fail to disclosed is that the poll is directed at mostly Republicans. So of course you would get a majority to favor torture. The Republicans want to torture their so call enemies, even the "liberals" they so hate. Ramussen poll is a fraud and a disgrace. The one thing I dislike about TMC is that they continue to use it as a credible poll without disclosing that the numbers are fixed for the Republican party. Most know this but some may not.
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Middleclassvotingbloc
December 31, 2009 1:09 PM
Americans are not cowards, Republicans are cowards
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Middleclassvotingbloc
December 31, 2009 1:12 PM
This outlet is the only credible news outlet other than FOX that continues to site the Ramussen faux poll numbers. Who at TMC is an extreme right winger, we would like to know. Someone at TMC is in bed with the extreme right and tea party crowd.
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Middleclassvotingbloc
December 31, 2009 1:14 PM in reply to Middleclassvotingbloc
Sorry, I did not mean to say that FOX is a credible news outlet. A big mistake on my part.
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pittprof
December 31, 2009 1:13 PM
This poll is disheartening. I know it's a Rasmussen poll, but still --the gap between the pro-torture and the pro-rationality sides is too big to be explained by pollster 'house effects' alone. I guess it's what a decade of political fear-mongering, spineless media coverage, and pop culture phenomena like '24' have brought us --but I don't think this could have happened so easily in any other developed country (just like the US is the only first-world country that still has [or worse, brought back] the death penalty). There is an appetite for violence and revenge in the American people that is very disturbing.
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Middleclassvotingbloc
December 31, 2009 1:17 PM in reply to pittprof
This is not news, we always knew that Republicans favor torture.Keep in mind, Ramussen does not speak for the majority of Americans, just the extreme right and the neo-con.
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geofu54
December 31, 2009 1:23 PM
Can you just stop citing Ramussen, please?
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JohnW1141
December 31, 2009 1:39 PM
The Shining City on a Hill wants to torture people. heh heh heh
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superking
December 31, 2009 1:41 PM
During the election, Nate Silver calculated that Rasmussen results consistently swing something like 3% to the Right. That is a significant margin in Presidential politics, but not so much in a 60-30 opinion poll.
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Michael A
December 31, 2009 2:04 PM in reply to superking
Have you seen any explanation regarding the daily tracking poll? A ten point plus difference makes zero sense. Either ratsmussen is way off, which is probably true, or gallup is way off. There shouldn't be that much of a difference.
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Marinus van der Lubbe
December 31, 2009 2:07 PM
Rasmussen polls are skewed...like anything Frank Luntz touches, it has a tendency to drift right and prove his/their point rather than express true data or patterns. Rasmussen to polls is what Fox is to news...
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Number6
December 31, 2009 2:31 PM
A sad commentary.
Reality check, everyone! Acceptance of torture is the way our freedom ends, not public health care. Sure, this guy is a dirtbag, but he's also an American, and in America, even dirtbags are supposed to be treated like human beings when tried for a crime. Well what the heck, if torture is good for accused terrorists, let's torture gang members next. And if that works, how about Internet predators if you can find any? No one likes them very much anyway. Can you see where this is going?
So don't thump your chest and talk to me about freedom while you stand in favor of torturing anybody. If you do, you are a hypocrite. Oh wait, that's the definition of a Republicκ, isn't it?
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slb
December 31, 2009 3:50 PM in reply to Number6
Uh, no -- Abdulmutallab is not an American. That's not to say he's not still entitled to a fair trial, but let's stick to the facts. The fact is that he is a Nigerian, not an American.
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pseudonymous in nc
December 31, 2009 3:03 PM
Stay classy, Assmussen.
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Ouroboros
December 31, 2009 3:24 PM
Kiefer Sutherland has a lot to answer for.
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AdAbsurdum
December 31, 2009 4:13 PM
Doesn't anyone remember this country post-911? The bumper stickers, the indiscriminate bigotry, the "Fuck the Constitution, I want them dead" statements even on NPR, or the Thomas Friedmans in our media OK with punishing innocent Iraqis so that the Arab world could "suck on this?" This is not a partisan issue. It is ugly, but this is the reality in the US. Likely, it's just what the attackers wish to accomplish. Rassmussen is merely the messenger.
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Silence
December 31, 2009 4:32 PM in reply to AdAbsurdum
Most folks don't see the constitution as a document written to protect foreign combatants with dreams of exterminating Americans.
I know. It's crazy. Why wouldn't our founding fathers want to protect crazy, blood-thirsty freaks flying in from other countries with explosives tucked in their knickers?
Education. The key is education.
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superking
December 31, 2009 4:45 PM in reply to Silence
It was actually written to protect US citizens from being ruled by a government that enjoys impunity to US law.
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mamiller
December 31, 2009 4:58 PM in reply to Silence
The Constitution is written to provide equal protection to ALL.
The point is to protect individuals who you and your friends decide need to be denied their civil rights.
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Silence
December 31, 2009 5:36 PM in reply to mamiller
All what? Russians? Germans? Arabs? Indonesians? Poles? African tribes in the Sahara?
Perhaps, it was written by Americans to protect Americans.
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ttarleton
December 31, 2009 7:11 PM in reply to Silence
All HUMAN BEINGS who are within our borders - born here, residing here, visiting here, or taken into custody here, you dumb fuck nationalist pig.
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Silence
December 31, 2009 8:31 PM in reply to ttarleton
Flying here with bombs in their britches?
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ttarleton
January 2, 2010 4:15 PM in reply to Silence
Are you too dumb to understand? A nation either operates under the rule of law or it doesn't. And apparently you would be perfectly happy if we didn't. And that is both unconstitutional and un-American.
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ttarleton
January 2, 2010 4:17 PM in reply to ttarleton
So stop with the flag-waving and eagles - you're not fooling anyone. A flaming cross or swastika would be more appropriate to your views.
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ttarleton
December 31, 2009 5:04 PM in reply to Silence
Silence - your TPM profile is that of a classic troll. No personal info (serious, joking or otherwise), no posts, no recommends of anyone else's posts, just one aggressively rightwing comment after another. Obviously you're not here to add anything to the discussion, just to throw stinkbombs. Why do you bother? Don't you know that there are sites that would actually welcome your views?
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jollyroger
December 31, 2009 6:05 PM in reply to ttarleton
Why do you bother
Hey, even trolls have to pay for that spot under the bridge...just because WH money (The Rove Slushie Tap) dried up, there are still right wing pockets to pick
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ttarleton
December 31, 2009 4:57 PM
Well big surprise, Eric - what the fuck do you expect from a RASMUSSEN POLL???
PLEASE - Josh, Eric and all at TPM - stop lending credibility to this bullshit rightwing pollster by citing his numbers!!!
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Middleclassvotingbloc
December 31, 2009 5:59 PM in reply to ttarleton
One has to wonder who at TPM is so bent on pushing Rasmussen Polls?
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jollyroger
December 31, 2009 7:46 PM in reply to ttarleton
would you settle for a more incisive encapsulation, viz "corrupt, erzatz 'polling study' attempts clumsy manipulation of public framing re:retributive torture of cooperating arrestee"?
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afisher
December 31, 2009 5:01 PM
If the folks at TPM are going to report this pollster, then hopefully, they also have enough money to pay for the crosstabs and let us know the true demographical break down.
I am astounded that some here are so afraid of our own justice system. While looking at the DOJ website today, you could see that DOJ managed to successfully prosecute 2 terrorists this month...no fanfare, no media fear mongering, no threats of torture, nada.
If those here really believe that torture and murdering a suspect without a trial is good for our country, then I am glad that I am old and won't be around to see the country/ police state you are willing to support, unless of course, it happens to you!
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MarciaJ720
December 31, 2009 8:32 PM
And we wonder why America has lost it's moral standing in the world during the last decade?
Reagan began the destruction of America (see what condition a generation later his state of California is in) and Bush, Jr. just about finished the Federal job off.
If we would get off of our addiction to oil, we would quit interfering with these people who want us out of their lands in the first place, but who now must depend on us for some safety (how convenient...).
This seriously makes me quite sad that it is now okay in America to torture. We are isolationists now, even though Obama is trying to change that.
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Kuyleh
December 31, 2009 8:53 PM
Yay for being in the minority, I guess?
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IMNOTBITTER
December 31, 2009 9:15 PM
I was just thinking about the whole bomber episode and suddennly I just thought that this incident gives a whole new meaning to the phrase..."GOODNESS GRACIOUS GREAT BALLS AFIRE".....I'm just syaing.
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rmwarnick
December 31, 2009 10:48 PM
We older people remember a time before Kiefer Sutherland legalized torture.
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bill
January 1, 2010 1:18 AM
From the ask a silly question department:
Would you like to see Dick Cheney hung up by his gonads?
Respond directly to Rasmussen, it gathering information on
fantasies and freaks. It's planning a National Inquirer-like
cable show modeled after the Spanish Inquisition.
Other spectacles you might enjoy, just send them in.
Thanks Rasmussen ! Cant wait for the video game !
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bill
January 1, 2010 1:25 AM
You know the Bushies beat their chests like Tarzans about how they were making history and defining reality. Wow ! Just one example of how they shaped this great land: Torture is supported by a majority of citizens. Thanks for new reality, Bushies. And, a majority of citizens cannot understand why people in other countries dont 'embrace our values'. That's not new with the Bushies though. The Bushies just gave those people more reasons.
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Silence
January 1, 2010 10:58 AM in reply to bill
Oh no. The socialist slaves of other nations don't "embrace our values'. What to do? What to do?
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Scott in PacNW
January 1, 2010 3:45 PM in reply to Silence
LOL. Whereas the monarchial, martial & autocratic regimes applaud your views.
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Silence
January 1, 2010 6:00 PM in reply to Scott in PacNW
"And guess what this liberal would be all about. This liberal will be about socializing … uh, um. ...would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies. …"
- Maxine Waters
That Maxine. She's such a free market, liberty lovin', patriot.
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Signalman
January 8, 2010 9:40 AM in reply to Silence
Yeah, and we all love how she runs the entire Democratic Party. We all bow to her and salute her and live by every word she says.
Man, you're stupid.
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Persona non grata
January 1, 2010 12:16 PM
The poll asked: "Should waterboarding and other aggressive interrogation techniques be used to gain information from the suspected bomber?" The result was 58% yes, to only 30% who said no.
What information could possibly be gleened from torturing Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab? The man is/was a tool sent off on a fools errand.
Only the US government and its swarms of agents would benefit from an attack of this type.
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Persona non grata
January 1, 2010 12:22 PM
The poll also found that 71% want the event to be investigated by military authorities as a terrorist act, to only 22% who want it to be investigated by civilian authorities as a criminal act.
How could the American people believe an organization, US Department of War, that cannot account for the spending of untold trillions of tax payer dollars, could conduct a proper investigation?
Ignorance.
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ser99
January 1, 2010 7:14 PM
yeah well another poll said dick cheny want to stick bamboo stakes under the finger nails of 100% of people who look at him cross ways that don't make it legal
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John
January 1, 2010 7:30 PM
I've long wanted to waterboard Karl Rove for information, so I guess I'm no different except in who I want to torture.
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Ethan
January 1, 2010 8:01 PM
***k you, Rasmussen!
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ser99
January 1, 2010 8:05 PM
yeah well another poll said dick cheny want to stick bamboo stakes under the finger nails of 100% of people who look at him cross ways that don't make it legal
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Texas Aggie
January 1, 2010 9:03 PM
Did anyone actually ask what the purpose of torturing this guy would be? What do they expect to find out that he isn't already saying? Is there any reason to doubt that most Americans really don't care about fixing problems, they just want to hurt someone?
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Tralbry
January 1, 2010 9:12 PM
This only demonstrates that ugly, ill-informed people reach ugly, ignorant conclusions. Even if you believe the Jack Bauer hype that torture is effective (and it isn't), there is nothing to be gained here. The guy has been talking openly from the start. He is a peon in the scheme of things so he doesn't know anything much beyond what he was told to do and he didn't even do THAT very well. He was a screwed up kid, easily manipulated by the same people that Bush released from Gitmo a few years back. That's further proof that torture and illegal detention CREATES terrorists. The bomber's bosses were nobodies before Gitmo. Now they are leaders in Yemen who TAUGHT the hapless kid what he should do.
I've long accepted that biased polls like Rasmussen can influence ill-informed idiots and that many Americans qualify, but this is beyond simple idiocy. It's going into the heart of darkness you see in pre-fascistic states.
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fangorn1
January 1, 2010 10:38 PM
I truly hope this Rasmussen Poll is inaccurate. Waterboarding is a crime and it doesn't work. KSM and Abu Zubaydah gave their most important information to interrogators PRIOR to torture. My guess is that the Xmas bomber just needs to be asked to get information.These guys have been like Chatty Cathys when interrogated by experts.
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fangorn1
January 1, 2010 10:48 PM
By the way, I personally don't think Kiefer Sutherland has anything to answer for. He's an actor playing a role and is probably happy to have a steady job.
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jsdc007
January 1, 2010 10:52 PM
Only Rasmussen would go around asking the mob a "mob mentality" question like that. What are they going to ask next? Whether we should feed this guy to lions or hyenas? (56% polled go for the hyena option . . . ).
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johnnyba
January 2, 2010 10:51 AM
Of course its accurate, few people really think it out much.
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