
Pro-choice House members are reaching out to certain pro-life Democrats and co-ordinating with members of the Senate ahead of a potential clash over abortion that threatens to kill far-reaching health care legislation.
At her weekly press conference this morning, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said she's not worried that divisions among Democrats over abortion will imperil the push for reform. "I think that will be worked out," she said.
The House health care bill includes a provision--known as the Stupak amendment--that would prevent millions of people from buying insurance policies that cover abortion. The Stupak amendment was adopted at the last minute, when a group of Democrats joined with the Republican party in a threat to kill the whole reform bill if the adoption language wasn't added to it. The Senate bill contains much more neutral abortion language, but one Democrat--Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE)--has in the past threatened to filibuster the bill if Stupak-like language isn't included in the bill.
On the one hand, it seems possible that if pro-choice Democrats win, and strip restrictive abortion language from the final health care bill, pro-lifers could blow up the months long reform effort. And at the same time, if the language is maintained to placate pro-life members, pro-choice members in both the House and Senate could do the same.
That's treacherous terrain, and reaching safe ground will take some nimble footwork. Pelosi declined to elaborate on just how she and other Democrats plan to navigate, but a keyed in House Democratic aide says pro-choice Democrats are making their move.
The first question is: What will Harry Reid do?
"We're working with our partners on the Senate side," the aide said, "to protect the language that's in the Senate bill now."
According to the aide, "Reid has sort of left the door open for further compromises. We're closely monitoring that to make sure that any further compromises...don't radically upset the balance" in the underlying Senate bill.
Reid is expected to introduce major changes to his bill in the coming days in the form of a "manager's amendment," and there's some concern that, to reach 60 votes, he'll tighten the abortion language in his bill in a way that makes it unacceptable to pro-choice Dems in the House.
"What needs to happen for Reid to get 60 votes?" the aide asked.
The answer's unclear "What's a compromise going to look like to get Nelson? Or do you not need to worry about Nelson because of the compromise on the public option?"
If Reid tries to placate Nelson, that will put the ball in the pro-choicer's court. But if he manages to pass a bill without drastically changing the abortion language as it reads in his bill right now, the ball will fall to pro-lifers. And operating under that assumption, pro-choice Democrats are reaching out to dozens of House members who voted for the Stupak amendment, but who don't seem to have drawn a line in the sand over it.
"We're going to some of the members who voted for Stupak--those with buyer's remorse, and those who really want a bill to pass," to feel people out, discuss potential compromises, and count votes.
"We have a whip list," the aide said.
Convincing those swing-votes to be flexible on the abortion issue, then, may be the linchpin to all of health care reform. Whether the House and Senate bill are married in conference, or the Senate bill is sent over to the House for a vote, they are the ones who will make the difference.
In the past, House Majority Whip James Clyburn has said that adding the Stupak amendment won Democrats about 10 votes. But any bill is likely to pass by a thin margin--so there's very little room for error.
Powkat
December 10, 2009 2:00 PM
Sen Jeff Merkely has it right, you don't make progress by going backward on half the population.
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madmatt
December 10, 2009 2:09 PM
For the first time ever I am siding with pro-lifers rather than allow this abortion of a bill to pass!
Let the whole insurance industry collapse over the next couple years and then start from scratch...sure more dead americans, but I'll be damned if I pay for corporate jets and million $ salaries.
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runfastandwin
December 10, 2009 3:05 PM in reply to madmatt
Dream on. All of us will collapse before the insurance industry does.
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ondioline
December 10, 2009 3:12 PM in reply to madmatt
Ummm...
If you have health insurance right now...
and...
If the industry has corporate jets and million dollar salaries right now...
Then won't you be damned they do and damned if they don't? You could very well end up one of the dead Americans you seem so flippant about, but the insurance industry probably won't give a damn one way or the other. So tough talk on the internet really doesn't amount to much, eh?
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Indie Pro
December 10, 2009 2:11 PM
In my opinion
democratic leadership decided the path of least resistance was to give the industry and conservatives what they want
or so secret deals with pharma, etc. points that direction, and the love of the industry-written baucus bill love fest seems to say
progressives and liberals can not let that be
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Shrubbit
December 10, 2009 2:28 PM in reply to Indie Pro
In my opinion you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Compromise IS governing. That's why the GOP blows, they don't and can't compromise (thus govern). Let's not follow them down that path.
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Indie Pro
December 10, 2009 2:30 PM in reply to Shrubbit
you're a tool. Read that again skippy:
democratic leadership decided the path of least resistance was to give the industry and conservatives what they want
that is not compromise
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Indie Pro
December 10, 2009 2:36 PM in reply to Indie Pro
at the same time,
giving industry and conservatives what they want is exactly the way the GOP governs
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bluebell
December 10, 2009 7:10 PM in reply to Indie Pro
Well, if it's good enough for Republicans, it sure is good enough for the Me Too! I'm a conservative party! War is just! Health is insurance! Corporate boardrooms are labor! Women are screwed!
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ericf
December 10, 2009 2:40 PM in reply to Indie Pro
Face facts: we wanted this bill very much, conservatives want no bill at all, and conservadems can live quite happily with no bill. When you're negotiating with someone who wants no change at all and doesn't have to give you anything, you do most of the compromising. Really, the only leverage liberals have is at some point, the centrists will want something pretty badly, and will need to compromise with liberals who would be happy with no bill. That's how the hate crimes bill got attached to the defense bill. Liberals took advantage of how much the blue dogs want their war toys.
The fact is if we get the Medicare extension, then we got the essence of what we wanted all along.
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Indie Pro
December 10, 2009 2:43 PM in reply to ericf
the medicare extension is does nothing towards what the PO was meant to accomplish
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elle a
December 10, 2009 3:38 PM in reply to Indie Pro
no, its way better than the public option in all its glory.
there is no evidence, evidence, mind, that a robust public option would work. it would be a new system of healthcare that sounds good in theory.
whereas medicare is a proven system that the greater majority know and love. it already exists, so there is no expansion of governent (not like that is a bad thing).
if the public option gets shot down, but medicare is expanded, then thats a win.
once this bill passes with the medicare expansion, however incremental, it will be easier to expand medicare again and again.
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Indie Pro
December 10, 2009 3:42 PM in reply to elle a
then you are welcome to cheer for it all you want.
But a $650 a month buy in, for a small segment of the population will do nothing to keep the insurance companies honest, as the President said.
On the other hand,
a PO open to all, would go a long way to ensuring that any savings found through this legislation goes to consumers forced to buy products of a private industry. An industry outside of anti-trust laws. Otherwise, any savings can be easily gobbled up by the industry.
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ericf
December 11, 2009 4:37 PM in reply to Indie Pro
But a strong public option isn't going to happen. Guaranteed 41 senators will uphold a filibuster. Without the abortion restrictions, it probably couldn't pass the House either. Face it, though conservatives are too few to pass anything, they can stop a lot. Besides, the Medicare expansion is exactly the incremental approach many single-payer advocates proposed to begin with. The current age matches retirement age for Social Security and most private employment. The expansion separates Medicare from retirement. That's huge. There will be much less struggle to expand it to younger ages.
We would be fools not to drop the public option and grab hte expansion.
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bluebell
December 10, 2009 7:18 PM in reply to elle a
We'll have to watch the fine print. Is this really going to be an expansion and extension of Medicare or is it going to be the Trojan horse to undermine Medicare? For example, if people 55 have to buy in with no subsidy who is to say they won't extend that concept to say 70 or 80 especially if the person 55 gets used to paying those premiums. If we're not watching these folks like a hawk, they'll be selling us out. I already heard that faux progressive, Senator Amy, is whining about the cost of Medicare benefits.
I mean how are we going to afford all these just wars!
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dtOZONE
December 11, 2009 7:40 AM in reply to Indie Pro
If they were giving the insurance industry and conservatives what they want, they'd drop the entire issue altogether.
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madmatt
December 10, 2009 2:50 PM in reply to Shrubbit
Do ya live in a cave...name one thing a rethug has compromised on...
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SocialJusticeForAll
December 10, 2009 2:12 PM
A CNN poll in November found American adults are against "using public funds for abortions when the woman cannot afford it" by a 61-37 percent margin. Other polls have found slightly higher or lower percentages, but all show that adults oppose federal funding of abortion.
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VictorLH
December 10, 2009 2:30 PM in reply to SocialJusticeForAll
Despite the fact that a women’s right to choose is a constitutionally protected right! So, in that light I suggest there be an amendment to rescind the constitutionally protected right of religious fools to speak freely.
Fact is this is a nation of laws, not a nation of religious superstition.
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richard f
December 10, 2009 3:24 PM in reply to VictorLH
Despite the fact that a women’s right to choose is a constitutionally protected right!
The fact that abortion is a constitutionally protected right under certain circumstances doesn't mean that there is a constitutional right for the government to fund abortions. I have a constitutional right to freedom of press and not to be prohibited from starting a newspaper. That doesn't mean that the government has a duty to fund my newspaper. There is no way in the world that any bill will pass which provides for government funding of abortions. That said, the Stupak amendment goes way too far (prohibiting insurance companies that receive subsidies from offering abortion coverage even if that coverage is not paid for by subsidiens) and there should be a way to draft compromise language to get everybody aboard
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VictorLH
December 10, 2009 8:13 PM in reply to richard f
Fact is we are talking about Health Care for Women, not a f'ng newspaper - Apples and Oranges. Using your logic, it would be justifiable to deny men coverage for vasectomies or prostate surgery. Can’t harm those little spermatozoa’s can we, it might prevent a zygote from developing.
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Powkat
December 10, 2009 2:19 PM
No one is asking for federal funding - just that they can use the premiums paid by the individual. And the public votes against gay marriage, too and they are wrong about that as well.
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mcc
December 10, 2009 2:30 PM in reply to Powkat
What the Stupak amendment says is that if you get any money in insurance vouchers from the government, you're not allowed to buy a plan with insurance coverage. They're saying that once the government has given you some money, the government can tell you how to behave and what to buy. I'm continually surprised "conservatives" don't see the problem here.
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AJM
December 10, 2009 3:16 PM in reply to mcc
Agreed. If the government can tell you not to have an abortion, it can tell you to have an abortion. If it can decide not to fund abortions, it can decide not to fund child birth.
We need to establish a principle that when it comes to health care, the decisions are made by the people on whose care the money is spent.
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SocialJusticeForAll
December 10, 2009 2:51 PM
Abortion may be legal but it is still wrong. When laws permitted slavery, they were wrong. When laws permitted child labor, they were wrong. When laws permitted a lack of suffrage to women, they were wrong. When laws allowed domestic violence they were wrong. Each of those wrongs had to be addressed through strong and forceful means. Americans will not stand aside and allow the laws of this land to run rampant over the rights of innocent unborn people. When Hilter used power to kill innocent Jewish and Slavic people, it was wrong. Abortion is wrong. American people do not want to fund abortion as part of healthcare. It is time to put personal preferences and voting histories aside and vote to prevent abortion funding as part of healthcare reform.
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runfastandwin
December 10, 2009 3:08 PM in reply to SocialJusticeForAll
First one to use the world "Hitler" in an argument loses.
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AJM
December 10, 2009 3:25 PM in reply to runfastandwin
It would also help if they got their facts straight about Hitler: he opposed abortion.
People of all kinds share the same characteristics -- slave owners excused themselves by saying that blacks were inferior people but they did automatically recognize that their slaves were people. To imply that the only thing that you have in common that matters with other human beings is DNA is truly insulting.
If a fetus were to remain in an early stage there is little that marks it as human but DNA. And being human doesn't make it a person any more than the fact that the cells in hangnail are human makes them people.
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ondioline
December 10, 2009 3:33 PM in reply to runfastandwin
If it hadn't mentioned Hitler, it still would've had this sentence in there:
"Americans will not stand aside and allow the laws of this land to run rampant over the rights of innocent unborn people."
If there's one thing I'm confident Americans will do, it's stand aside on all sides of the law. We will stand on all sides of the law, lay down on all sides of the law, go to the bathroom on all sides of the law, and sit on all sides of the law. We will barbecue and bring coolers full of beer to both sides of the law. We will determine what colors and mascots best represent both sides of the law, and then purchase and wear merchandise celebrating both sides of the law. If the law stands up and blocks our view of anything running rampant over the rights of the innocent, born or unborn, we will jeer at the law and yell "DOWN IN FRONT!". If the law gets boring or is interrupted by a rain delay, we will start The Wave in stadiums built for games glorifying our indifference to (and ironically enough, our passionate feelings about) the law. If the law has halves, we will want a marching band or dogs that do amazing frisbee tricks. We will demand the singing of the Star Spangled Banner before the law and God Bless America if the law is divided into innings. If the law conflicts with Canada's law, we'll sing both national anthems before resolving the dispute. If the law is divided up into three periods and kept on ice, we will want a zamboni to clean it up and smooth it out. If the law is five hundred miles long, we'll watch it in a 2.5 mile oval with high banking in the corners. If the law brings parties from all nations together, we will only allow the law to do so during alternating seasons in predetermined locations, once every two years. Unless the law is in black and white, in which case we will greet the law with staggering indifference (did you know the law was going to be in South Africa this time?).
SocialJusticeForAll didn't mention any of this because SocialJusticeForAll doesn't know shit about the law, doesn't give a shit about the law, and would take a shit on the law in the interests of it's narrow-minded, poorly conceived personal views at the slightest provocation. So SocialJusticeForAll couldn't help but bring Hitler into this; it just wanted to give the illusion that it was taking all this VERY, VERY SERIOUSLY (without resorting to ALL CAPS, of course).
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SocialJusticeForAll
December 10, 2009 3:54 PM in reply to runfastandwin
When the Holocaust killed innocent Jewish and Slavic people, it was wrong.
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ilovebacon
December 10, 2009 3:26 PM in reply to SocialJusticeForAll
First person to compare a woman's choice to abort a foetus to slavery loses.
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Dorn76
December 10, 2009 3:31 PM in reply to SocialJusticeForAll
"innocent unborn people"
This is a subjective definition. Others would say a fetus is not a person. Why is your opinion the only valid one?
See how hard this is? Probably why the Gov't needs to stay the hell out of a woman's uterus.
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Schmed
December 10, 2009 4:06 PM in reply to Dorn76
It's not all that hard. "Fetus" is a term scientists give to the unborn offspring of a viviparous animal at a certain stage of development. Similarly, "infant" is a term we (as a society) give to the unborn and born offspring of a viviparous animal (human) at a certain stage of development. The same is true for "child," "teen," and "adult." Biological descriptions of stages of development do not per se add or substract value to the entity being described. What adds or subtracts that value are the quality of mercy, justice, and dignity we're willing to accord to that entity at whatever its current stage of development. How we treat the entities, unborn and born, that eventually becomes our children says much about our society. Frankly, the current continuum of that treatment scares the hell out of me.
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Mimi katz
December 10, 2009 2:52 PM
So-called "pro-life" legislators who would cheerfully let tens of thousands of adult people die from lack of medical care because of lack of insurance in order to save some embryos, who can then themselves grow up to die from lack of health insurance, are blithering, contemptible hypocrites.
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DKDC
December 10, 2009 3:02 PM
The problem here is not that any legislator wants to provide "abortion funding as part of heathcare reform." It's that some pro-life legislators just don't accept the compromise in the Senate bill as sufficient and have wedded themselves to Stupak - which is not smart because I guarantee you Stupak is not going to be what's in the final bill - the only people who think so are the guy whose name is on the amendment and some of his pointy-hatted pals in the Catholic hierarchy.
The Senate will come up with something that's clearer than the current language but not as draconian as Stupak, and enough pro-life Dems in the House will accept it to put the issue to bed.
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Vavasseur
December 10, 2009 3:18 PM
If this is what the filibuster is getting us, it is time to end the filibuster. If I had to choose between the filibuster and public health insurance for all Americans, I'll choose health insurance. Is there any other legislative body in the modern industrialized world that has this bogus procedure? It is getting us nothing. Let this dinosaur go extinct.
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elle a
December 10, 2009 3:22 PM
thsi article is just a bunch of maybe's and what ifs.
after nelsons amendment was shot down, it was reported that he was calm about it, and didnt repeat his earlier threat to filibuster.
it is silly for anyone to get their knickers in a bunch over a compromise that no one has mentioned so no one knows what it would be like, and if indeed it would be inacceptable to any concerned party.
what is with people, cant they just wait for the FACTS to come out before they start rushing about like chickens with no heads?
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jfields
December 10, 2009 3:35 PM
Ahem.
We don't need 60 votes.
I don't even WANT 60 votes. It's become all too clear what 60 votes means; it means that Big Lieberman Pharma gets about 80% of what it wants, and we get precious little.
I want 50 votes. Not a single vote more. And the most reform we can ram, shove, force and piledriver through the Senate with those 50 votes. And then Joe Biden comes in, breaks the 50-50 tie, and tells Nelson where he can shove it.
Who's with me?
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hinterlandharry
December 10, 2009 3:37 PM
Since the 60s SCOTUS has fostered the rule of government neutrality when it comes to social or religious issues, i.e. who it the government to determine what the "good life" is for any individual. Roe v. Wade was almost predictable. Although I am a social liberal and believe in a woman's right to choose, I recognize that abortion lacks moral resonance, which has created a state of no middle ground. Fundamentalists rushed in where Liberals feared to tread, creating this insolvable position of no middle ground. Liberals position of governmental neutrality toward abortion as public policy, although in my view correct, lacks moral resonance. Unless and until pro lifers and pro choicers can agree on the need to reduce unintended pregnancies and develop a working plan to accomplish, I can see no movement.
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SocialJusticeForAll
December 10, 2009 4:18 PM in reply to hinterlandharry
Everyone should have the right to [good] life, not a guarantee but a chance; including the unborn. The Right to Life is the foundation for all our rights.
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JohnW1141
December 10, 2009 3:49 PM
From what I understand, Reid and his majority can legally reduce the number of votes needed to cut off debate. Cut that number to 51 then dump the amendments by the wingers on the right and left. F**k Lieberman, Nelson and the rest of the hard liners, along with the Insurance industry.
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CommunityOrganizer
December 10, 2009 4:30 PM
Everybody always wants to end the filibuster when they are in power.
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pmb50
December 10, 2009 9:44 PM
I bet these two women hating cretins would oppose someone telling them what they could with their dicks
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