
The longest serving member of the House of Representatives says Democrats need to act quickly to pass reform, and that the best way forward may be "Plan B": to pass the Senate health care bill along with a separate bill amending it in a variety of ways. But after conversations with his colleagues he thinks members aren't quite ready to settle on any course of action.
Rep. John Dingell (D-MI)--the Dean of the House--thinks Democrats should first put Republicans on the spot opposing the bill, then move ahead without them.
"They can go to conference," Dingell told me in an interview this afternoon. "Bring the Republicans in. They've been whining about the need to have transparency, let them get up there and say that they oppose this bill before the people."
Once that exercise is over, though, Dingell says Democrats should bare down and pass the Senate bill. "I don't foreclose the utilization of the adoption of the Senate bill, accompanied by an agreed to piece of legislation to be embodied in the reconciliation package," Dingell says. "And just tell the Republicans that you have a chance to co-operate with us, and if you don't we'll be proceeding.
"I've discussed it with members--everybody's talking about it," Dingell added. "Right now nobody is agreeing to anything, because we're all trying to make up our minds what the facts are to support a particular course of action."
That's understandable, but will have to end soon. Ultimately, he says, members need to move urgently.
"There is only a limited amount of time to address this," he said.

Barack ObamaJob Approval |
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MASON
January 22, 2010 4:02 PM
"Bring the Republicans in. They've been whining about the need to have transparency, let them get up there and say that they oppose this bill before the people."
Umm, I'm pretty sure that's what they've been saying before the public for the past 6 months.
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Mateo123
January 22, 2010 6:16 PM in reply to MASON
Six months? How about 47 years.
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AhTrini1
January 24, 2010 4:26 PM in reply to MASON
Democratic lawmakers are SPINELESS!
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wbgonne
January 22, 2010 4:04 PM
OT and Reposted but I think it's cute. Plus, no doubt we will have to whip the Conservadems in the very near future. Here's some leverage:
HARRY: Hi Blanche, Joe, Ben and Mary, we're going to have a cloture vote on health care in 10 minutes.
BLANCHE, BEN, JOE & MARY: NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We need time to ... make some phone calls.
JOE: What EXACTLY is the vote? Be VERY specific because if not I'm going to whine in a really annoying voice.
HARRY: We're voting to close debate and pass the final bill.
MARY: Well, nobody from Upjohn mentioned it to me and --
JOE: Or Aetna --
BLANCHE: Not even United ---
MARY: I think I just wet my pants.
HARRY: That's right. We just decided.
JOE: Oh, reaaalllly?
HARRY: That's right. And we expect each one of you to vote with the caucus.
JOE: Oh, reaaalllly?
HARRY: That's right.
JOE (winking at Blanche and Mary): Well, Harry, I'd love to help you out but I happen to know that Ned Lamont favors one sub-clause of the fifteenth sub-section of part Q and, well, I just don't see how I can bring myself to vote Aye on this. Sorry.
Ben: And one other thing, Harry. The way the bill is written it is theoretically possible that some of the money allocated could, if stolen by al Qaeda and laundered through the poppy trade, it could end up getting used for an abortion in Afghanistan. I'm sorry, Harry but I'm with Joe.
HARRY: It's non-negotiable.
JOE: Oh, reaaalllly? (Mary, Ben, and Blanche laugh uproariously).
20 MINUTED LATER (AFTER THE VOTE)
JOE: Hey, Blanche you're kind of cute in this candlelight next to the HVAC.
BLANCHE:. Thanks, Joe. But it's so cold here in the basement. Are you sure we did the right thing?
BEN: Anybody got a pen? I'm gonna write a very strong letter.
MARY: All they gave me is a pencil. But it's not sharpened.
JOE: Let's get the staff in here. I want a pencil sharpener.
BLANCHE: But Joe, remember, all we have for staff is Ayla Brown and she went back upstairs. She said it was too dark and cold in here. And she said something about . . . losers.
MARY: I wet my pants again.
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Walter Mitty
January 22, 2010 4:16 PM
I'm actually going to enjoy the Democratic bloodbath in November. Every one of them is absolutely useless. Fuck'em all.
Senate will lose 5-6 seats, the House will lose a hundred. And each and every loss will be deserved.
This has been the biggest clusterfuck imaginable. They're leaderless and Obama has his head either in the sand or up his ass. Reid is a mealy mouthed loser and Pelosi has no control over the House. The House is all out for themselves now, all running around like chickens with their heads cut off.
I'm sick and tired out every one of them.
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northernMNer
January 22, 2010 4:37 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
I so feel you Walter. I so want Bart Stupack to lose in a tsunami.
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Robertson One
January 22, 2010 4:21 PM
Sounds like maybe reality is beginning to set in.
Pass the Senate bill in the house, do some fixes in reconciliation, move along.
Thank you John Dingell for behaving like a grown-up.
(and just to be clear, every loss of a progressive piece of the legislation - Single Payer, PO, Medicare buy-in, has been like a knife to the gut for me - but insuring 31 million Americans, subsidies for middle-class families, allowing young adults to remain on their parents insurance, and some basic rules of the road for the insurance industry is still a hell of a lot - certainly it's a start that can be improved on)
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Ethan
January 22, 2010 4:28 PM in reply to Robertson One
They don't call him the Dean of the House for nothing.
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W T F
January 22, 2010 5:16 PM in reply to Ethan
Agreed. It's refreshing to see there's at least one House Democratic member who is willing and capable of providing adult supervision.
Here's what the Democrats need to do, in this order:
First, the House Democrats must pass the Senate plan as is and send it to the President to sign.
Second, the President, in his State of the Union speech, should press forward on health insurance reform. The President should state that a key element in health insurance reform is competition: health insurance companies should be allowed to compete in a national market.
Third, the day following the Presidents speech Democrats in both the House and Senate should propose legislation that would strip the anti-trust exemption from the health insurance companies. This bill should be as simple as possible, should be posted on the House and Senate's websites for all citizen to review for 72 hours, and then immediately moved the floor (of the Senate first) for debate and vote.
A vast majority, a silent majority, of Americans want health insurance reform.
Right now.
There is one key point House Democrats must remember.
It is possible to argue whether or not the Senate's health care reform bill is a "winning" policy or political result for House Democrats. I grant you that.
However I am willing to bet that subsequent health insurance reform legislation can be constructed to be be a devastating policy and political weapon to the advantage of the Democratic Party in both houses of Congress.
The House needs to pass the Senate bill as soon as possible. Passage of that legislation is the opportunity to begin the process of health insurance reform.
Think of it this way: if the House Democrats pass the Senate's bill and the President signs it, what do the Republicans do? They are between a rock and a hard place. Do Republicans offer to revise it? We have a debate the Democrats can win! Do Republicans promise to repeal it? They'll be seen as protectors of the health insurance industry - checkmate!
The Republicans need to tread carefully here. And they know it.
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Acharn
January 23, 2010 7:49 PM in reply to W T F
I'm reluctantly beginning to agree with you guys. The deciding factor is the 23 million or so Americans who would be forced to buy health insurance under this bill, who don't have health insurance now. They would be worse off financially, but they would have health insurance, although with huge deductibles and co-pays.
Why do people still claim high deductibles and co-pays lower the amount people spend on health care? As if people have choices when they are being treated. You get sick, you don't have choices about which hospital you're going to be sent to, you don't have choices about what treatments your doctor is going to order, you don't have choices about what medicines you're going to be told to take. Getting sick is not like going to a Chinese restaurant.
The idea of following it up with a new bill canceling the antitrust exemption is great. It will never pass the Senate, of course, but probably would get 218 of the votes in the House and show which of the Conservative Democrats is willing to vote against their constituents. I expect that would get them more Republican votes.
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Buckeye Terrorist Fist Jab Nation
January 22, 2010 4:29 PM in reply to Robertson One
Agreed.
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Darrius
January 22, 2010 4:42 PM in reply to Robertson One
I hope so because either the reality sets it or another Ronald Reagan sets in come 2012. We can not afford another Reagan-like Republican Presidency.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot.
PASS THE BILL ALREADY!!!
THIS FIGHT NEEDS TO BE OVER!
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mophan
January 22, 2010 10:11 PM in reply to Robertson One
From one fellow progressive to another... it's so true. As much as I hate this bill, it needs to get passed and passed yesterday.
Then we could start working on small pieces of legislation to make it better. Attach them to defense funding, tax deductions for the middle class, veteran's benefits and other popular/bipartisan pieces of legislation.
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bdtex
January 22, 2010 4:32 PM
He gets it. That is the only way to do HCR this year and the window to get it done is very narrow.
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northernMNer
January 22, 2010 4:38 PM
So here's a question: Do you think Dingell has any pull with the rest of the House Dems, or is he just speaking his mind?
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felix
January 22, 2010 4:42 PM in reply to northernMNer
Well, Dingell has a little pull, but perhaps not as much as, you know, the President of the United States.
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northernMNer
January 22, 2010 4:51 PM in reply to felix
True that!
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Darrius
January 22, 2010 4:51 PM in reply to felix
You don't know how the internal politics of the House works. I don't know either, but we can not assume that the President can simply go to the House and say "Pass the Senate bill NOW!!"
To me, the situation appears to be a case of institutional pride. Simply put, the Senate said to the House of Representatives, "Its my way or the highway" and the house is offended by that. The house needs a way to save face and then they will pass the Senate bill.
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felix
January 22, 2010 5:01 PM in reply to Darrius
No one is suggesting that he can just go in and wave a magic wand, but he's not even close to exerting any type of pressure. He simply needs to step up and try to push his party in a clear direction.
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
January 22, 2010 5:06 PM in reply to felix
He's not even close to exerting any public pressure. We don't know what's going on in private. Maybe nothing, but, honestly, that doesn't seem plausible to me.
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wbgonne
January 22, 2010 5:40 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
This is EXACTLY what we hippies have been saying for months. O-Man get out there and kick some ass. Americans love a fighter and especially when we're really pissed off like now.
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Overreach THIS!
January 22, 2010 5:47 PM in reply to felix
It has hit me that there is the non-executive Obama, and in the Chief of Staff seat, the non-executive (sometime banker) Rahm.
Maybe they need to bring a real manager in there, one with political savvy, but who is able to see charades like this Republican opposition for what it is, and also be proactive in taking over the debate (as opposed to entertaining death panel rhetoric). Just a thought.
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felix
January 22, 2010 5:10 PM in reply to Darrius
No one is suggesting that he can just go in and wave a magic wand, but he's not even close to exerting any type of pressure. He simply needs to step up and try to push his party in a clear direction.
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Darrius
January 22, 2010 7:38 PM in reply to felix
To be honest the President and the Senate may be putting more pressure on the house by leaving them alone. As long as there is a back and forth between the houses there is room for the house to negotiate and counter-offer. Since Obama and the Senate have apparently moved on, most all of the pressure has landed squarely on the shoulders of the house. The rest has landed on Obama who, as President, gets credit and blame for anything that all Democrats do or don't do.
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wbgonne
January 22, 2010 5:17 PM in reply to Darrius
I really don't get it. Obama has a Magic Wand that works in the House but not in the Senate? Obama can order Dem Reps how to vote but not Dem Senators. Is that what you're saying?
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Darrius
January 22, 2010 8:19 PM in reply to wbgonne
Actually I said that Obama does not have such a magic wand.
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El Puerco
January 24, 2010 5:41 PM in reply to felix
Who?
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Indie Pro
January 22, 2010 4:42 PM
pass the Senate health care bill along with a separate bill amending it in a variety of ways.
this is the way things are gonna go. The Senate bill will not be passed "as is"
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chimpale
January 22, 2010 5:09 PM in reply to Indie Pro
I hope you're right. And I hope it happens soon. Every day that goes by without a resolution to this mess makes it more and more difficult to get and keep everyone on board.
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
January 22, 2010 5:03 PM
There's a brilliant effing cartoon over at balloon juice. A football team with "Dems" is in the huddle. The ball is down next to the goal line. The QB is saying "okay, we're five points down. It's the last play of the game. It's fourth and one. The ball's on the one yard line. Should we punt or go for a field goal?"
Repeating my message. Most of the people in the House just aren't that bright. We don't like to believe it, because, at some level, we need to feel like our leaders possess at least a modicum of shrewdness, if not actual brains. And it ain't so. They come from city councils and state legislatures and, on balance, most of them aren't really that much smarter than the people they left behind. Not one in ten of them took a course touching on game theory. Most of them have no more ability to face hard facts or grasp the obvious than the manager in your office who drags meetings out for hours trying to brainstorm "creative" ways to avoid dipping into the horded money in his budget to replace the broken copier.
You can't push the thickies into accepting the obvious. They'll run away or dig in their heels. They have to think they've gotten there on their own. So it just takes them a little time to blunder their way to the obvious conclusions that the smart ones reached immediately. And there's the danger because during that time, panic can either damp down or completely unbalance their reason.
Having said that, I really could have done without the "bare down" image. There aren't more than two or three members of the House I'd care to see naked and there are probably a hundred who'd make me question whether that "legally blind" thing wasn't a viable alternative to continuing to spend money on glasses.
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Boidster
January 22, 2010 5:29 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
Having said that, I really could have done without the "bare down" image.
Came here to say this. Eww...
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anna am
January 22, 2010 6:50 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
I think he meant bear down, meaning push. As in when women are giving birth. Bear down.
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lonesomeliberal
January 22, 2010 5:09 PM
This is good to hear. Part of what has been lacking this week is any visible Democrats advocating for plowing ahead and doing the right thing. Dingell is looking at the situation with clear eyes -- let's hope the Democrats are willing to listen.
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allen bukoff
January 22, 2010 5:16 PM
I love Obama's new strategy of estranging everyone at once. This IS creative. Bill Clinton wasn't afraid to estrange anyone (even his own party and friends) to get what he wanted, but he never estranged everyone at the same time. Maybe Obama is a genius.
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SS451
January 22, 2010 5:28 PM
Glad that Dingell gets it. He's been around long enough to see that delay plays into the Republicans' hands.
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diffengr
January 22, 2010 5:29 PM
Are reps positions being tracked here? Anywhere? The tubes aren't helping me with this one.
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Ripper McCord
January 22, 2010 5:29 PM
Dingell seems to get it. ALL of it.
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Davran
January 22, 2010 6:17 PM in reply to Ripper McCord
Yep. So that's one vote for sanity. Only 218 more needed.
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Khyber900
January 22, 2010 5:31 PM
Thank you, Congressman Dingell. Hope your caucus members will stop their collective bedwetting and posturing and get with the program.
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wbgonne
January 22, 2010 5:37 PM
Sorry to interrupt the doom and gloom but I see real signs that Obama is finally getting it. I think Geithner is history. Benanke too. But Summers is the evil genius and he'll probably be harder to dump. And I predict the SOTU speech will signal an abrupt about-face into the populism that can get his agenda through. Of course, I've been wrong before. But I AM looking forward to SOTU while a week ago I doubt I would have watched it.
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Indie Pro
January 22, 2010 5:41 PM in reply to wbgonne
it'll be interesting to see what happens, all the way around.
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wbgonne
January 22, 2010 5:42 PM in reply to Indie Pro
May you live in interesting times. And we do.
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bluestatedon
January 22, 2010 5:38 PM
Dingell has the right idea, but there is no fucking way the rest of the feckless, quivering, pants-pissing Democrats will go along with him.
I don't have much sympathy for Obama in all of this, either. He sent a loud and clear message a year ago to the GOP and more importantly to members of his own party that you can kick him in the balls and he won't do a goddamn thing, when he refused to take advantage of a heaven-sent opportunity to kick Joe Lieberman out of the caucus. All of the hand-wringers who were opposed to kicking Holy Joe out were whimpering that it would jeopardize the holy grail of 60 votes, as if Lieberman's vote was ever going to be reliable. So Obama sent the clear message that you can abuse him and his party with no consequences, and he ends up losing his 60th vote anyhow. Irony's a bitch, and the Dems are the GOP's bitch.
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cube3u
January 22, 2010 7:54 PM in reply to bluestatedon
I suspect that Joe, McCain and Graham--the three buddies--had votes that were useful for a Supreme Court Justice.
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willia451
January 22, 2010 5:55 PM
"There is only a limited amount of time to address this," he said.
How can there be only a "limited" amount of time to work on it? How long have they been working on it? Since Oct/Nov 2008? I mean, shit. How long is "limited"?
Please! Spare me.
No. The President has said put HIR on the back burner and we'll see about it later. That is exactly what we should do. People care about the economy and jobs right now. The President got NO QUESTIONS about healthcare today at his town hall. But plenty about everything else. How enlightening.
The House (even Dingell said so) is NOT going to simply "rubber stamp" the Senate Bill.
"I don't foreclose the utilization of the adoption of the Senate bill, accompanied by an agreed to piece of legislation to be embodied in the reconciliation package," Dingell says.
The Senate has already said it will not consider such legislation. Period. The Senate has Moved On. And is telling the House, its the corrupt POS we passed, or nothing.
And who can blame the House? The Senate Bill IS a corrupt POS! And the American People are telling Congress and the President, they think the Senate Bill is a POS too.
I'm sorry. This just is what it is.
Time to move on.
Comprehensive HIR is dead. At least for the near term.
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hoppycalif2
January 22, 2010 6:07 PM in reply to willia451
Unfortunately, the "near term" is 10 years. Many of us aren't ready to let that many people die just because some of you can't accept an imperfect bill. As far as corruption is concerned, Congress never passes a single bill that doesn't embody corruption, because that is how Congress works. Votes are traded, purchased, reneged on, and the final bill that passes contains all of the candy needed to obtain the necessary votes.
Any Congressperson who lets his/her "pride" cause them to condemn tens of thousands of Americans to death from lack of health care, isn't worthy of spitting on.
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willia451
January 22, 2010 7:38 PM in reply to hoppycalif2
Then there are many of them that are not worthy.
But we already knew that.
Look, I understand there are 10s of millions without insurance and are in need in the country.
But this is the fucking US Congress we are talking about. If you want to believe they give a rat's ass about us poor serfs. Fine. Believe that.
But in order to get something for the people, we must deal with the corruption first.
If anything, the events of the last year + should have taught you that.
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hoppycalif2
January 22, 2010 8:07 PM in reply to willia451
I don't believe we have any means of dealing with the corruption in Congress. People run for that office largely for their own benefit, and once there, they learn how the system works. They can ensure their financial future by going along with the lobbyists, they ensure their reelection by going along with the lobbyists and their leaders. Sitting in a gravy train like Congress is, the worst thing they can contemplate is being defeated for reelection, so that colors all that they do.
Some much bigger changes that we have any hope at all of accomplishing are needed to change all of this. For now all I see to do is to try to keep Democrats in control, simply because they need labor votes, minority votes, and our votes or they can't be reelected. Repubs just need money, which corporations are happy to provide.
Now is the time for health care reform. The next opportunity is very likely to be in the 2020's. I won't live that much longer.
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Maritza
January 22, 2010 6:02 PM
Excellent!
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Maritza
January 22, 2010 6:17 PM
It is going to take someone like Dingell to buck up the House and get this thing passed.
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JohnMcCSF
January 22, 2010 6:21 PM
ThinkProgress(!) enters the fray....
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/22/democrats-big-bill/
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JohnMcCSF
January 22, 2010 6:23 PM
Toles!!!
http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/toles1.JPG
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AlaskaHank
January 22, 2010 6:42 PM
I think John Dingell is crack on!! The longer we wait just gives the Repubs more time to frame Health Reform from their perspective and that keeps us on the defensive. Now is the time to get it done! I realize that the Senate Bill is a long way from being perfect. But if the House members can hold their noses and vote for it and than immediately pass a series of amendments that have basically been agreed to by the Conference Committee then the focus of the conversation changes. Of course it goes without saying that Senate Democrat Caucus upfront would have be willing to push the the House past amendments through to Senate and if necessary by reconciliation. In a perfect world we could take a giant leap forward and be where we want to be. But the climate is not such that we can and so we need to proceed step by step. We cannot fail!
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masanf
January 22, 2010 7:37 PM
Put Republicans on the spot opposing the bill? You mean the like the Republican who just won in Massachusetts?
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masanf
January 22, 2010 7:38 PM in reply to masanf
That second sentence should read: You mean like the Republican who just won in Massachusetts.
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masanf
January 22, 2010 7:41 PM
"And just tell the Republicans that you have a chance to co-operate with us, and if you don't we'll be proceeding."
Ask them to cooperate on a bill they just spent months opposing, that was voted against by all 40 Senators and is oppposed by the majority of the population? That is this clown's winning strategy? Why that is almost as brilliant as his "put them on the spot" comment. House Speaker Boehner here we come.
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masanf
January 22, 2010 7:43 PM
And of course he admits in the very next paragraph that his whole "ask for the Republican cooperation" "strategy" is a complete charade that is to be put on before they try to ram through a bill using reconciliation.
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Isepick
January 22, 2010 7:51 PM
Minor history lesson: John Dingell Jr., and his father before him, have introduced National Health Insurance legislation for *every* session of congress since the 1940s (I cant remember the exact year, but it's been a while.) This is literally his life's work, and this is the closest he has ever been to seeing it passed.
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Joe
January 22, 2010 11:57 PM
Pass the Senate bill in the House and the Democrats have signed their death warrant.
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BMK
January 23, 2010 10:58 AM
They just don't get it. Every talking head in the MSM and every dem thinks they just haven't been able to get us to understand their position. Just as they think that speaking more slowly and enunciating more carefully to the dim child should due the trick, they're convinced the message delivery is the problem, not the message.
I say we need to convince the uber left that it is time for a third party. One that supports their every cherished plan. Show them that nothing they desire will come about unless they do this for their causes.... and splinter their voting base as they have been silently encouraging Repubs to do since the Regan years. A Democrat base third party would divide their vote and be the kiss of death for radical power. Look at what that did for conservatives in giving us McCain. He turned out to be our only choice and got us here in the first place.
As it was with our vote, put them in a position to have only a Larouche type candidate to vote for and where else will the voting base go? That's where they had us. Our moderates peeled off en masse, but where else could we go.
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El Puerco
January 23, 2010 4:13 PM
Obama is the most pathetic leader I have ever seen. He preached about "bipartisanship" from the start and got burned on the Stimulus and now Health Care. But guess what? In his weekly address, he criticized the Supreme Court ruling overturning limits on corporation funding of campaigns, and said that he would seek a "bipartisn" solution to this problem!!!???!!
The Republican Supreme Court made this decision precisely because they feared that his fundraising juggernaught would kill the Republian Party. So why does he think that the Republicans would have any interest in a bipartisan law to limit the effect of this ruling, given that they are already the party of corporations?
I honestly think Obama has a psychological problem, a neurotic need to reconcile two irreconcilable sides. Probably the effect of being a Black child raised in a White family.
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Buckley
January 24, 2010 3:22 AM
I don't get what Obama is thinking. Does he think we will all finally get together and forget what that lying sack is saying called McCain?
Does he think his dreams and his praying will give him the idea that we will get close enough to believe him?
Good luck, John.
You and Sarah will make a marvelous couple in 2012.
I will walk the streets constantly hoping that we get the win from some crazy rule that puts Al Franken in office until everybody chills out.
Go Al!
Now, he is the guy who pushed me to get involved so we can make the Al Franken decade complete.
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ender342
January 24, 2010 9:42 AM
The Republicans choked on the 2000-page bill with its many compromises, sell-outs and buy-ins for recalcitrant Senators. I can't entirely blame them for that.
I suggest Obama, Reid and Pelosi commission a one-page bill. It would simply amend the Medicare Act in two ways: to remove all references to age (thus allowing anyone to buy in) and remove the paragraphs that forbid the government from negotiating drug prices. The bill should be presented to both houses in exactly the same wording and an immediate vote should be required (as was done with the infamous Patriot Act and several years earlier by Phil Gramm who sneaked repeal of the Glass-Steagall act into an unrelated bill at midnight). Reid should require the Senate vote to be held under 'reconciliation' -- i.e. majority rule -- and should let any argument over that tactic be fought out in the courts. (Senate Rule 22 is just that: a local rule, not part of the Constitution or of any law.) Because the bill will be identical in both houses it would require no conference but could be sent immediately upon passage to the President for his signature.
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