
For weeks now, we've been reporting that there's a deep divide between the House and Senate on key provisions of the health reform bill. The House wants health care to be implemented and regulated at the national level. The Senate wants to leave it up to the states.
The House wants to tax the wealthy to pay for near-universal health care. The Senate wants to shift the burden to the middle class through an excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" insurance plans. (And let's not forget the House has already given up one of it's top priorities, the public option, to appease certain senators and end a filibuster threat.)
But now it's down to crunch time and the House and Senate have to come up with a compromise that can win 218 Democratic votes in the House without upsetting a delicate, filibuster-proof balance in the Senate. And we're seeing some small progress on one of the main sticking points -- the taxes.
Frustrated House progressives have grappled with the Senate (and ostensibly the White House, which supports the Senate plan) over their plan to pay for health care reform. These lawmakers have suggested in no uncertain terms that, without significant changes to it and other measures, they will oppose a final bill.
"If the Senate bill is our final bill, I'd vote against it," Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-NY) told me outside a Democratic caucus meeting last night.
"There's some major issues [including] the Cadillac plan," said Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-CA), co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.
Woolsey's fellow co-chair, Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-AZ) told me "If it's the Senate version [of the tax], I don't think the House will [pass it]."
However, as members continue to jockey for position, House leaders and the Obama administration are working overtime, meeting with union officials and each other to figure out how to pay for the bill. By many accounts, the White House is beginning to demonstrate a willingness to modify the tax in a number of ways to make it more palatable to wary House members.
As currently designed, the Senate bill would impose an excise tax of 40 percent on insurance policies priced at over $8000 a year for individuals and $23,000 for families, tied to the consumer price index plus one percent. (This would ensnare a large--and growing--number of middle class Americans and union members, and, as such, has led progressives and labor sympathizers to accuse President Obama of abandoning a campaign promise not to raise taxes except on the wealthy.)
In recent days, though, negotiators have hinted at a number of potential fixes. The threshold values of the policies could be raised; the indexed could be lifted to keep pace with medical inflation; and, as I reported yesterday, collectively bargained health care plans could be exempted from the tax altogether.
None of the changes would be simple, and all would require Democrats to replace the lost revenue, but this is the current approach to resolving the dilemma.
"I don't know if they're going to do that," Weiner told me when I asked him about exempting union plans. "I don't think they want to make this as transparent as that, and I also think there's a regional aspect to this too that that doesn't really help them with. It helps them with the big swath of the country--Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, a lot of Democrats, lot of vulnerable Democrats. But there's also a lot of us that are in regions of the country that negotiated plans and employer benefit plans are going to fall into this disproportionately."
"I definitely think there's increasing support in the caucus for some kind of tax on plans that executives and wealthy people have," said Rep. Jared Polis (D-CO). "This is one of the few cost-containment measures in the bill, and a lot of us, including myself, feel it's critical to reduce costs and bend the cost curve to have some element of what President Obama is seeking in the final bill."
Polis went on, "I think that by maintaining the excise tax in something close to its current form, or the form that President Obama works out with leaders of organized labor, we'll be able to meet most of the revenue needs of the bill."
Woolsey wasn't so sanguine: "It would have to be structured so cleverly," she said, frustrated.
But if the tax were scaled back just right, her co-chair, Grijalva, says he could back it. "At this point, if we're dealing with what we have in front of us, I'm not convinced this is history moving forward," Grijalva told me yesterday. "Given the scenario you've just outlined, then perhaps it is a step toward history and many of us would be more inclined."
Lalo35adm
January 13, 2010 9:02 AM
"Dems Grapple With Obama"
- Who would have thought.....
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Libertine
January 13, 2010 9:31 AM in reply to Lalo35adm
Me. Because liberals/Democrats, unlike the conservatives/Republicans, do not mindlessly go along with whatever our political leaders tell us to do and think. Yeah, wou would have thunk it...a bit different than the 8 years previous of the blind and dangerous leading mindless lemmings off the cliff.
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brewmn61
January 13, 2010 10:12 AM in reply to Libertine
The problem is that it's the CONSERVATIVE Democrats who are causing all of the problems. If these idiots had gone along with the program from the getgo, we'd already have passed health care legislation, including a "robust" public option.
Sometimes party unity is a good thing. And when you have just won an overwhelming election victory, maybe uniting behind your party's leader to get their signature campaign issue enacted would be one of those times.
But Democrats sabotage progressive change every time they are in power. This is not a new phenomenon, which only makes it more frustrating. As Dylan said, "what's the price I have to pay to get out of going through all of these things twice." But, we're on our third Democratic administration in my adult lifetime, and all three have been distinguished by petty factional bickering preventing the passage of any large-scale social legislation.
I no longer find Will Rogers' famous statement about the Democrats amusing in the slightest.
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AnswerFrog
January 13, 2010 9:49 AM in reply to Lalo35adm
Who would have thought? All Democrats who remember the Clinton years. Hillarycare never got off the ground in a Dem controlled congress.
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JorgeOrwell
January 13, 2010 12:47 PM in reply to Lalo35adm
Is he TRYING to destroy the Democratic party?
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brewmn61
January 13, 2010 2:37 PM in reply to JorgeOrwell
I think that would be you, chief.
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JorgeOrwell
January 13, 2010 2:41 PM in reply to brewmn61
I'm merely trying to help them find their sacks. It may take some diddling around, but I know they're down there!
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brewmn61
January 13, 2010 3:05 PM in reply to JorgeOrwell
The only "sacks" most members of Congress are interested in are the ones filled with cash.
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JorgeOrwell
January 13, 2010 3:15 PM in reply to brewmn61
Well, I can see that now! But, I'll keep looking. Its more fun.
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Silence
January 13, 2010 9:09 AM
http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/www_usn_2.nsf
Haiti needs our help.
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JorgeOrwell
January 13, 2010 1:26 PM in reply to Silence
Yes, that is a tragedy of epic proportions. Sometimes we forget how good we have it here.
If Obama keeps dismantling the American middle class we will be where Haiti is within a generation.
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Libertine
January 13, 2010 9:27 AM
Here is something to consider folks. Before I dropped my insurance, because of non-stop annual premium hikes due to my 2 pre-existing conditions (Type 2 Diabetes & mild hypertension), I was already at $7,200 for an individual...for bare bones coverage. Would that mean, going strictly by the numbers, that chances are if I get back into the market I, and MANY people like me, would be considered to have a "cadillac" coverage plan and have to pay a tax because of it?
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Kali Star
January 13, 2010 9:46 AM in reply to Libertine
I know several people with complicated medical problems, some with insurance, some without. None of them have a clue about what to do next. All of them feel betrayed by Obama for not doing more. That is just a political fact. One couple has been advised to get divorced to protect their house. Another person who can't afford medicines has decided there is no point going on with her medications. It's come down to rent or the full course of the meds for her. They all thought that Obama would help him He hasn't. Even it it passes, how many years before they are helped? Just like people who have lost their houses.
Even if this passes, it still seems a disaster for so many people in trouble. I think it will go down as one of the great disasters for a Democratic President who decided to stay with military spending, making deals with drug companies, and coddling Wall Street instead of putting his words and energies on the line for people in trouble.
Middle class and poor people are in meltdown situations. If this President doesn't start engaging with a tax plan that goes after upper income people, break the backs of corporate interests and keep benefits going to people about to be put in the streets, he will be considered one of the worst Presidents of recent decades. Just my opinion. Who does he listen to?
I have come to the opinion that he has no ideas or energy of his own. I began to think that when he kept giving the same speech over and over. I think he sits around and lets others bring him ideas, and then he considers considered THEIR ideas, not his own.
Things are moving to a more dire situation. It's no time to be pleasant to a President who has abdicated on leadership.
Sorry, that was longer than expected. But this health care debacle has me in quite the state. And I blame Obama directly for this mediocre result.
I don't want to see music concerts from the White House, or pictures of the President on vacation. Is he so politically naive that he doesn't know how angry this makes people?
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Riesz Fischer
January 13, 2010 10:06 AM in reply to Kali Star
He's toast in 2012.
Oh well, at least we can look forward to seeing his concession speech. We'll finally get to see what he looks like without that smirk on his face.
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runfastandwin
January 13, 2010 12:40 PM in reply to Riesz Fischer
Obama has a lot of facial expressions, smirk isn't one of them. You have confused him with the last president. And anyway by 2012 all this will be long forgotten. Anytime a president is elected once, short of a complete economic meltdown or a credible third party on his flank, he becomes the odds on favorite to repeat.
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brewmn61
January 13, 2010 10:18 AM in reply to Kali Star
"And I blame Obama directly for this mediocre result."
That's because simple answers are the only ones you are capable of understanding.
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Kali Star
January 13, 2010 10:30 AM in reply to brewmn61
Attacking my intelligence won't change the political reality. If you have something more constructive to say, why not write more than a sentence?
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brewmn61
January 13, 2010 10:42 AM in reply to Kali Star
And blaming Obama won't change the fact that we still have a center-right Congress completely in thrall to big business. And before you bring up Obama's "giveaways" to Big Pharma, et al., I am reasonably certain that was done in an attempt to mute direct opposition by these entities, not out of a desire to "carry their water," or whatever the phrase de jure may be.
The Congress passes laws. If you can convince me that Obama would have vetoed a "Medicare for All" bill, then I'll join you in blaming him. But our government in Washington is hopelessly corrupted by the money flowing in from large business interests, and that corruption can't be more clear than in the opposition to enacting policies that benefit ordinary Americans and that are found in every other developed country on the planet. Until that corruption is addressed in some way, whether through campaign finance reform or by ordinary Americans getting fed up enough to vote out the corporatists in both parties (because I don't expect, and don't even desire democrats to unuilaterally disarm), then we will NEVER get the Change We Need.TM
Blaming Obama only serves the interests of the political forces you claim to oppose. The problems are much deeper and more systemic than him.
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rbe1
January 13, 2010 11:27 AM in reply to brewmn61
Couldn't disagree with you more. The House and Senate certainly have the responsibility to enact legislation. The president has two responsibilities: a structure to present to the legislature that outlines the bill the president wants; the bully pulpit from which the president can take on vested interests to inform the public and motivate them to swamp the legislature with public opinion. Obama has failed miserably in both areas. For these failures he is directly responsible. Full Stop.
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hoppycalif2
January 13, 2010 11:46 AM in reply to rbe1
In addition, Obama could have selected his cabinet and advisers without loading them with corporate/wall street insiders. Once he did that, it was obvious that Obama was not what we thought we elected. To expect someone like Geithner to lead the Treasury Dept. in a direction that wasn't subservient to the banks is ludicrous. Similarly, to expect Rahm to manage the Executive Department as a counterbalance to corporations was equally ludicrous.
So, who will we back to oppose Obama in 2012?
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Kali Star
January 13, 2010 12:07 PM in reply to hoppycalif2
Three weeks ago I was thinking about someone to at least run against him on principle. To be honest, I'm too tired and angry now to be part of it. I don't even have the mental energy to think it through. Life seems bleak without substantial healthcare reform. The best thing one might do to protect one's health if just tune out and plant a garden. Hopefully that will change for me. Depends on how good the garden grows I guess.
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mixalot
January 13, 2010 2:01 PM in reply to hoppycalif2
Ah yes...the oh so productive mating call of the LeftWing Tea Party. It's current richly-thriving, oh-so-a-twitter habitat is noted for its peculiarly insulated environment, where - from its limited but exaltant view - the country is LOADED with pure progressives from sea to shining sea, and the Senate's 60 vote requirement is a mere illusion (and is easily circumvented by magically transforming Nebraska, Indiana, No and So Dakotas, Louisiana, Arkansas, and the State of Joe Lieberman into leftwing hotbeds from the redstate cauldrons that currently they actually ARE).
This harsh, panicky, and shrill whistle is also known to shriek that it is a "wonderfully-good-plan" to simply blow up(!) a compromised, flawed, but passable bill that institutes perhaps 80-90% of the Health Care reform, improvement, access, and COVERAGE we have for 60 years been seeking for well over 30 million previously UNcovered Americans and multiple millions of previously UNDERcovered and PRECARIOUSLY covered Americans, because....well, we can simply blow it up because surely we can all afford to wait another 15-25 years for the next opportunity.
For as these LeftWing Tea Partiers look at THEIR history books (a very special library they have), THEY can point to the multiple examples of Dem Presidents with the savvy and GUTS to have advanced this particular issue to this on-the-verge point in the process...in the face of economic, partisan, and international chaos, no less. THEY can reference the roaring success of True Progressive Prez candidates in modern times in response to less than perfect Dem presidents and candidates, such as Ralph Nadar 2000, John Anderson 80 (hello GWB and R Reagan...) THEY can demonstrate the fertile electoral ground upon which the likes of perfect Progressives such as D Kucinich, R Feingold, Raul Grijalva, or Lynn Woolsey will romp on into the WH in some near-future, truly fanTAStic prez election year. THEY can point to the rich progressive numbers in this vast, center to center-right country that justify such courageous and tough talk. And THEY will be able to explain how sustainable life will be in all OUR habitats as their now-destroyed, villified, and abandoned progressive-while-compromising president (who is ACTUALLY IN OFFICE right now) has his legs cut out and agenda blown up leading very likely to years and years of RIGHTWING Tea Partiers in power.
It must be so very nice living in such a lovely, protected habitat. I just find it so strange how badly I would love to blow IT up. Leave me out of your whining, delusional, and reckless tantrums, LW TeaPartiers. I might suggest venturing out into the rest of the territories, where real numbers and real electoral diversity (unfortunate as it may be) exist and are acknowledged, and where real progress can be advanced and actually be considered real PROGRESS because we actually enacted SOMEthing utilizing the ugly tools of democratic, legislative PROCESS.
Perfect it is not, gang....but Progress it most certainly is. Grow up, take 'Yes' for an answer, and let's move on to the next things. One of those "things" can well be tinkering with and improving that which we have just PASSED. Can't do that if we don't pass it....now. Stalking off in a righteous huff and waiting another 20 years is not an option, I don't care WHAT habitat you reside in.
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lousgirl84
January 13, 2010 4:22 PM in reply to mixalot
Excellent post. Too bad it falls on deaf, unrealistic ears
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hoppycalif2
January 13, 2010 9:36 PM in reply to mixalot
Feel better now? So, you are willing to toss women under the bus to get this bill passed?
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mixalot
January 13, 2010 9:51 PM in reply to hoppycalif2
The PROCESS is not done, hoppycali. So I am not willing to throw the BILL - or the president - under the bus yet, either. I trust the progressive reproductive rights crew to push to the brink. Process, process, process....
Push them. Voice it. But let them work. Let them breathe while they work. And for crissakes, give them some credit.
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Kali Star
January 13, 2010 11:45 AM in reply to brewmn61
And you believe that Obama had to cut this deal with drug companies? That he had NO other choice? And responding with anger will -what? -help the drug companies? Did you follow the Dorgan Amendment when it came up?
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xargaw
January 13, 2010 12:30 PM in reply to brewmn61
Much of what you say it true, however, Obama won the election with a good margin. The people were behind him and supported the changes he championed. Yet, from the moment he took office he did an about face and didn't even try to persuade Congress to move in the direction the people voted for. Instead, he embraced every aspect of corporatism to the voters detriment. Healthcare would surely have had more beneficial aspects had he fought for the reforms he outlined. But, HE DID NOT. In short, HE DID NOT LEAD, he allowed the insurers and PHARMA to write the Bill they wanted all along. There is no difference in what Obama did than what the Democrats screamed about when GOP Congressman Bill Tauzin allowed PHARMA to write the Medicare Part D Drug Plan and then took a 2Mil a year job heading PHARMA. He sold us out. If it passes, they will try to spin it, but they have already fractured their brand because this is one issue where even the non-political, non-news watchers were paying attention.
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brewmn61
January 13, 2010 1:51 PM in reply to xargaw
"In short, HE DID NOT LEAD, he allowed the insurers and PHARMA to write the Bill they wanted all along."
It's this kind of stuff that makes debating with the anti-Obama left a waste fo time. If insurers and PHARMA had their way, there would be no bill at all. This oversimplification of the issues involved, and vague calls for Obama tio JUST LEAD, DAMMIT show an ignorance or a blatant disregard for who really runs Washington, and who controls the votes of a majority of the members of Congress.
So, just stay home because, after one year in office facing the most significant set of crises in 70 years, Obama no longer "inspires" you. You're children, and you deserve the government you get. Enjoy President Palin for eight years, and enjoy the rest of your lives in the political wilderness.
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mixalot
January 13, 2010 2:24 PM in reply to brewmn61
Amen, brewmn61, amen. Reality is a bitch, but it is, well....real. Keep teachin, brother/sister, keep leaning in. I'm right beside you.
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brewmn61
January 13, 2010 2:36 PM in reply to mixalot
What's sad is how much we agree on. I, too, would like almost everything that the critics in the blogosphere wants. We just see a different way of getting there from where we where after the most destructive president in modern history.
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mixalot
January 13, 2010 3:13 PM in reply to brewmn61
Well of course, brewmn. But as you have insinuated, we have to actually have a path "to get there". That's the whole point. A path requires process, and process is what so many here on the left now seem to refuse to acknowledge - or even perhaps comprehend. I post another angle (5 posts above) where I attempt to confront us with reality and process, as well as the consequences of NOT confronting reality and process. Just declaring, for instance, the current 60 vote threshold in the Senate as "nonsense" gets us absolutely nowhere in terms of actually DEALING with that threshold. Wishing away or ignoring the disproportionate representation of conservative states even by (centrist) Dem Senators is likewise delusional.
At any rate, all the anger and disappointment is real and totally legitimate. We all have our dreams and ideals and our goals, and work our asses off towards them. But then the utter disdain and immature impatience for the concept of process, reality, and the acceptance of Progress when we can achieve it -- as opposed to the fever-dreamed fantasy of TOTAL TRIUMPH and Purity of all Proggressive Efforts brings us all too close to self-destruction and ungovernability. It has a real tea party ring to it. Good luck to us all with THAT.
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Darrius
January 13, 2010 3:26 PM in reply to brewmn61
I'm with you as well.
I too want what the blogging left want. However I, like you and unlike them, am reasonable enough to understand that it won't pass with this Congress. I also realize that passing this bill, even the Senate bill as is, is progress and light-years better than not passing anything.
Indeed reality is a bitch, however its the only reality we have, so we have to deal with it.
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kernel
January 13, 2010 11:05 AM in reply to Libertine
If someone else were paying your premiums for you, wouldn't that be income? If you're paying your own premiums, I don't think you'd be taxed.
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cwnidog
January 13, 2010 11:22 AM in reply to kernel
If you're paying your own premiums, I don't think you'd be taxed.
That is not at all clear. Right now my individual Blue Cross policy is around $7,500 a year. It's hardly a Cadillac policy, it's just that individuals take it in the shorts for not belonging to a group. And note that this is a non-profit insurance company.
I fully expect my rates next year to exceed $8,000 for the same policy, which with the 40% excise tax will bring its cost to over $11,000 (approx. 17% of my pre-tax income, not quite making the 18% subsidy threshold we've heard about). Obviously, I'll end up getting a cheaper policy with less coverage to avoid the huge increase. For some reason, I'm less than thrilled with this reform stuff.
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MrDean
January 13, 2010 11:37 AM in reply to cwnidog
Actually, it's very clear. The tax only applies to the amount of employer paid premiums above $8000. An individual who pays for their own insurance doesn't implicate the tax. Moreover, Libertine's premiums would drop, because the insurer would no longer be able to give him higher rates because of his pre-existing conditions. For cases like his, this bill is a huge win. Not to say it's a win for everyone.
Also, check your math, if your premiums rise to $9000, then with the tax your total cost is 9400. The tax is only on the amount over $8000.
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cwnidog
January 13, 2010 8:55 PM in reply to MrDean
The tax is only on the amount over $8000.
An important detail. I am self-employed, so my employer does buy my insurance, but the "over $8,000" takes a lot of the sting out.
Thanks.
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JorgeOrwell
January 13, 2010 1:01 PM in reply to Libertine
Yep. That is one of the reasons their "preexisting" coverage clause is a load of crap.
They keep harping on about how great it is folks won't be turned down, but they fail to tell us that there are no caps on how much the companies charge.
Some say it will be at 300% above what average folks with NO preexisting would pay, but that it isn't entirely clear.
Not to mention this tax business. And 300%?! WTF? Will anybody be able to afford that? Not likely.
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kfreed
January 13, 2010 10:16 AM
Get rid of the mandate! Better yet, without a serious public option at the vary least there is no reason to support this bill. To think of all the time I spent fighting for health care reform when the nutjobs in Congress aren't serious about doing anything even marginally worthwhile - it just makes me ill.
Reinstate the public option and slash the mandate. Otherwise, its a total no-sell.
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JorgeOrwell
January 13, 2010 2:45 PM in reply to kfreed
I'll take the Mandate IF they reinstate the Public Option. We're not asking for the moon here.
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Silence
January 13, 2010 10:24 AM
Tribal tax policies. Nice. It's good to have "friends" with power and influence. So much for equal protection under the law.
What happens when a whole new slew of corp unions are formed to avoid the tax? Who pays for health care?
Welcome to Obama's banana republic.
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Sailormarlowe
January 13, 2010 10:30 AM
Obama & Pelosi grappling? That's too much information. Heh Heh Heh.
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Portlander
January 13, 2010 10:32 AM
I say forget the "Cadillac" tax or forget the bill and I mean it. Really. Enough is enough. At some point compromise begins to look like sellout. This is the point.
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dick c
January 13, 2010 10:42 AM
In a saner world, at this stage, "grappling" would be over the public option and how good it will be. Instead we're discussing just how much people will be penalized for having halfway decent insurance.
"Cadillac" my ass.
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izzatxeaux
January 13, 2010 11:19 AM
Emptywheel got it right -
'this is a chevy, being taxed like a cadillac'
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izzatxeaux
January 13, 2010 11:23 AM
shorter Jared Polis - don't tax us rich guys or the rich guys disproportionately represented in my district
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John M
January 13, 2010 11:25 AM
If/Since there is no public option or any firm of cost controls this bill either should be defeated or it is bound to fail. The Democratic Party sold the people out to the health insurance industry by having a bill with no cost control.
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MrDean
January 13, 2010 11:49 AM in reply to John M
Ironic that you say this, because the excise tax is one of the main cost controls in the bill. Public option or single payer would be even better, but since we know that there's not 60 votes in the Senate for that, I'd like to hear what cost controls exist that also do nothing to discourage spending.
Then again, I'm one of those weirdos (like Ron Wyden) that can't understand why it's better for an employer to pay for an employee's insurance than it is for an employee to just take cash and buy the plan themselves.
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hoppycalif2
January 13, 2010 11:56 AM in reply to John M
If you read Maggie Mahar's writings you will learn that cost control has to start with controlling the cost of medical care, not controlling the cost of insurance. This bill, as far as I can see, does very little to control medical care costs.
I still support the mandatory enrollment aspect of the bill. Only by having mandatory enrollment can we reasonably expect the insurance companies to stop the pre-existing condition stuff, or to stop cancelling policies when they are used for big medical bills.
Two major problems I have with the bill are the anti-abortion funding aspect of it, and the long delay before it becomes effective. The prohibition of abortion coverage makes second class citizens of women, and rolls back the calendar to about 1960. That has to go or the bill has to be voted down. The long delay built into the bill might have been slightly justified when the bill included a public option, but has no justification at all when the bill doesn't include the public option. The delay is there only to give the opponents plenty of time to repeal it before it become effective. This too is good reason to defeat the bill.
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runfastandwin
January 13, 2010 12:45 PM
I almost hope we lose the 60 seats next week, then we can stop fooling around with this 60 vote threshold nonsense and finally realize the only way to pass something like this is to force the opposition to actually mount a real filibuster, rather then just threaten. We can jettison Lieberman and the Dinos and get single payer passed. I mean can you imagine someone as old as Lieberman or McConnell or Nelson trying to sustain an around the clock filibuster? They would not last 2 days I bet.
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MrDean
January 13, 2010 2:10 PM in reply to runfastandwin
FYI: there's no such thing as a "real filibuster" where senators just talk for a long time. The filibuster is a repeated point of order. Every time cloture's had to be invoked (I think 8 times for HCR already) it is because of a "real filibuster" attempt. All it takes to maintain the filibuster is for at least one GOPer to hang around to make the point. It's rather anti-climactic.
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JorgeOrwell
January 13, 2010 1:20 PM
If these clowns in charge keep nickle and diming the base, there is gonna be huge blowback in November.
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Darrius
January 13, 2010 3:04 PM
I am so disappointed that Democrats can be so stupid. We insist on fighting one another when the time for debate is over and fighting each other is against our own best interest.
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JorgeOrwell
January 13, 2010 3:16 PM in reply to Darrius
Amen! Just throw the public option back in and all will be forgiven.
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LindaR
January 13, 2010 3:28 PM in reply to Darrius
Stupid is right. Adding 40% to the cost of already unaffordable crap insurance, then forcing us to buy it?
There won't be any money left for, you know, going to the doctor!
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JorgeOrwell
January 13, 2010 3:38 PM in reply to LindaR
They should have had this thing wrapped up before Obama let the insurance outfits write their version. Classic Democrap indecisiveness.
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