Health Care Comes To Screeching Halt - Sen. Webb: No HCR Votes Until Brown Seated

wbgonne

January 19, 2010 9:51 PM

Like I said, now we'll see whether Obama has the courage to lead a confused nation.

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rb6

January 19, 2010 9:54 PM in reply to wbgonne

It's not a screeching halt if the House passes the Senate bill. WTF is wrong with your headline writers? And how, exactly, does Webb expect to prevent a vote? Would he join a filibuster?

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tinmanic

January 19, 2010 10:31 PM in reply to rb6

Agreed. The headline is sensationalistic and ridiculous.

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Chris

January 19, 2010 11:08 PM in reply to tinmanic

Of course it does because it's called a spine. If you can't pass a bill with an 18 seat majority, you're pretty worthless.

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brewmn61

January 19, 2010 11:50 PM in reply to Chris

Well, one of those 18 votes just said this (h/y to Matt Yglesias):

"Even before the votes are counted, Senator Evan Bayh is warning fellow Democrats that ignoring the lessons of the Massachusetts Senate race will “lead to even further catastrophe” for their party. [...] “It’s why moderates and independents even in a state as Democratic as Massachusetts just aren’t buying our message,” he said. “They just don’t believe the answers we are currently proposing are solving their problems. That’s something that has to be corrected.” [...] “ The only we are able to govern successfully in this country is by liberals and progressives making common cause with independents and moderates,” Bayh said. “Whenever you have just the furthest left elements of the Dem party attempting to impose their will on the rest of the country — that’s not going to work too well.”

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 11:56 PM in reply to brewmn61

Hey why doesn't Obama just let Dick Cheney be president? Then the Conservadems would be happy.

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brewmn61

January 20, 2010 12:03 AM in reply to wbgonne

It's infuriating, but it's also the reason I cut Obama way more slack than many other commenters here. I always maintained that Obama didn't need to worry about the Republicans; it was the Senate Democrats that would be the biggest obstacle to his being successful as president.

But, Obama can't finesse the question anymore. He's either going to get good legislation passed by rolling over the conservatives in his own party, or his legacy is going to be that he managed to prevent a second depression in the first couple of months of his first term, and nothing else.

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wbgonne

January 20, 2010 12:10 AM in reply to brewmn61

Yup. You don't change history by running and hiding.

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TheRealFish

January 20, 2010 12:32 AM in reply to brewmn61

And the only way to role over them is to kill the filibuster. That change might have to pass a filibuster to be approved. (I'm still researching that one; I don't think it requires unanimous consent however which it would surely NEVER get, but if it has to pass a 60 vote test, you know for certain it will never happen with the un-super-majority of actual, real, liberals -- vs. the 46-8 moderate-to-neoskinhead conservatives in there now... .)

The idea that there's some Great Majicks or other silver bullet in that pitiably broken senate is a meme, and a corrosive, destructive one at that.

Nope. The uber-rightists f&cked it all up real good over the past 30 years of their quiet, backroom revolution they've been conducting while we were all sleeping in the gentle enfolding arms of Reaganonmics or Clintonesque bubble economies.

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Mateo123

January 20, 2010 8:13 AM in reply to TheRealFish

I don't believe that is the case. The majority party can vote, by simple majority, to remove the filibuster. So, we have 59 Democrats and we still have the 41 GOPers filibustering EVERYTHING we propose.

The nuclear option is the only clear answer.

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SFCWallace

January 20, 2010 9:18 AM in reply to Mateo123

Senate rule changes require a super majority.

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rb6

January 20, 2010 9:21 AM in reply to SFCWallace

Uh uh. This is wrong. Otherwise the "nuclear option" would not have been an option.

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LarryNM

January 20, 2010 3:21 AM in reply to brewmn61

Of course Sen. Bayh is a lying liar in catapulting his propaganda and he knows it. What we need to do is to let it be known that it is a matter of issues and answers, and that the majority of the People wanted this "furthest left" health care and not the various corporate copouts.

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Heretic

January 20, 2010 5:30 AM in reply to brewmn61

Let's face facts. Obama is toast. Every conservadem is going to run scared now. So let's see who that might include: Webb, Bayh, Lieberman, Kent, Dorgan, Landrieu, Lincoln, Begich, Baucus, Nelson, Pryor, Hagan, Spector. So, the dems don't even have 51 votes for anything progressive anymore. And while the progressives might call for the nuclear option or reconciliation, the Reids and Rockefellers and Byrds will not allow it. I was pretty sure Obama would fail, but I didn't think he would become a lame duck after one year. Fact is that this is a democracy, and whether I like it or not and regardless of how people have been manipulated by the pundits, the majority of this country is against the progressive agenda.

That is a big difference from progressive legislation of the past. While the republicans opposed social security and medicare, the public did not. Perhaps this was because of the much slower media cycle and/or the greater power exerted by the executive on his bully pulpit. Regardless, though. As for civil rights, that was essentially a constitutional issue of equal protection. If the civil rights act did not pass, the courts would have have eventually tackled it. You just can't make the same case for HCR. There is no constitutional issue at stake here. The situation in this country is atrocious, unfair, and unjust, but it is not illegal.

The sad reality is that America is barely a civilized country. We are a warmongering, reactionary oligarchy with a veneer of freedom. With the distinct likelihood that a populist know-nothing could be our next president, I think the gig is up. If you want progressive politics, the only option is find it elsewhere (Europe, New Zealand, some parts of central and south America).

To be honest, I am not sure what Obama could have done to make it otherwise. If he had tried to ram through truly progressive legislation, the base would have come out for Dems in NJ, MA, and VA. (The first two of which are usually overwhelmingly reliable blue states, but not only did they elect republicans, they elected the sort of republicans who have NEVER won in the NE before. That is truly scary.) However, truly progressive legislation would have never garnered 60 votes in the senate. While hindsight is 20/20, it was always clear that Obama's vaunted post-partisanship would be his downfall. A year ago, he might have gotten away with twisting Reid's arms over reconciliation or the nuclear option. If congress had passed a true stimulus bill (like say 2 billion of all spending with the bulk of it for something like the WPA), cut the balls off the bankers, etc., the country would be in much better shape and there would be much less populist rage. But, Obama wanted to sing kumbaya instead. He ended up with policies, which even if they had passed, were no more progressive than Hilary's would have been. However, there is a big difference. She would have drawn blood to accomplish them.

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Heretic

January 20, 2010 5:41 AM in reply to Heretic

Webb, Bayh, Lieberman, Kent, Dorgan, Landrieu, Lincoln, Begich, Baucus, Nelson, Pryor, Hagan, Spector.

I know not all of these folks are typically considered conservadems (Pryor, Begich, Spector, and Hagan), but if you look at their campaign platforms, they all have always kissed rightwing ass on many issues. And three of them come from states that are typically very red. While PA has been trending blue, it has a very populist streak, and it is unlikely that a progressive could win there (i.e., Sestak). Especially now. Of course, not all four are up for election this year, but HCR, if it passes, is going to be an issue for many years as the provisions roll out, so each of them will have to pay for their vote at some point.

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Heretic

January 20, 2010 5:53 AM in reply to Heretic

Kay Hagan's approval/disapproval numbers are 36/44, no doubt due to the fact that she is out of step with her constituents. She was clearly a protest vote. The truly disturbing thing is that no one seems to have the patience to get anything done anymore. So we careen from one protest vote to the next. If the republicans take power in 2012 (all three branches with supermajorities), their polices will be the death knell for this country. Unless the economy comes around on it's own and the wars end before then, though, I can see it going that way. And even then, the republicans can make the case that it was the free market and resisting "cutting and running" that won the day. It won't be Obama's legislative victories, and he is essentially a republican when it comes to the so-called war on terror.

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TheRealFish

January 20, 2010 12:15 AM in reply to Chris

Yeah. And I guess it's just too bad that every player (and that includes the corporate mass media) have accepted that filibuster is the norm, that the 58 votes (that are really more like 54 reliable votes) won't overcome filibuster after filibuster after filibuster. And, because the entirety of the Ref&cklican party, as well as maybe 4-6 Blue Dog DINOs, are willing to completely break the 230 year long standard practices of the senate, turning it into a completely broken branch of government, making it nearly impossible to conduct any business for the nation, then we have to lay the blame on the ones who pretend that we are not now in the bloodless stages of civil war in which we are engaged.

Agreed.

Anyone who can't see this is to blame. Because those Ref&cklicans and DINOs and some few other Dems have no loyalty to the citizenry of this country. They have no loyalty to the constitution. They have no loyalty to truly free-market capitalism, where all can play on a level field. They are fighting to break the back of a duly elected government, and they're even fooling enough people into thinking those who are directly under attack are the perpetrators of the very crimes they commit.

So, hell yeah: Even though the Dems didn't break the senate (or the economy or the constitution), because they're "in charge" now (of a poor broken thing), then let's throw them out and hand power directly back to the very wrecking crew that created this scenario in the first place.

Right? Well, yeah, right. But only if you actually think that it's better when the neo-wrecking crew has unfettered access to law making and can continue to chip away the last remnants of the Country We Used To Know. Only if you think in your heart of hearts that we are not in a better place, or maybe that we are even in a worse one, than we were the last time they controlled it all.

Yeah. Let's be petulant and nihilistic to the end, coming very soon to a congress near you!

And next year? Simple. Throw out all incumbents. That should make a very nice and sizeable hole for the newly rarified, purified neo-neo-teabag-nutbag-CONservatives to pour in and take over once more.

After all, there is no war so serious, no crisis so grave, no economic catastrof&ck so huge that it should get in the way of Beating The Dems. Winning is, after all, in our own little bizarro world, more important than quality of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. It is everything.

So sayeth the NeoCon Masters of Wall Street and their paid helpers on the Right in congress and the corporate mass media, who shall commit all these sins and yet be not only blameless, but rewarded.

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Matt Jones

January 20, 2010 12:34 AM in reply to TheRealFish

I really think a part of the solution is to force the filibuster issue - if Rethugs and Blue Dogs actually want to stand there on C-SPAN and read the phone book night and day while Americans die, LET THEM. But none of this, "we won't bring it up for a vote because it won't clear cloture". The real problem is that the average voter simply doesn't understand how much this is gumming up the works.

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wial

January 19, 2010 11:30 PM in reply to rb6

I think the idea is he's telling the House they have to accept the Senate bill as is or get nothing because he will prevent another vote in the Senate. Why he'd wish that on the American people is beyond me, but there it is.

I wonder how different this looks from the perspective of other countries where people enjoy just and free healthcare from what is happening in Haiti? In terms of numbers of deaths, not that different. In terms of social injustice, not that different.

But far more patently absurd.

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Roman Berry

January 20, 2010 6:55 AM in reply to rb6

Pass the senate bill? Are you kidding? That rotting carp of a bill is what voters are rejecting. Take a look at the polling over at Pollster.com and see for yourself.

People want health care reform, not a health insurance skimmer industry giveaway with mandates that grant the de facto power to levy taxes to corporations.

http://open.salon.com/blog/the_ox/2009/09/20/the_tax_that_isnt_a_taxbecause_its_something_else

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Scottsdalian

January 19, 2010 9:57 PM in reply to wbgonne

Confused nation??? Polls consistently indicate the nation is not the least bit confused.

It's our nitwit Dems in Congress that are confused.

WTF is Webb talking like this for? Fer crissakes - this is exactly what got the teabagger elected in MA.

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 9:59 PM in reply to Scottsdalian

Not confused? One year after a landslide election for Obama, the Dems lose Ted Kennedy's seat. You don't think that's a confused country? People are DESPERATE for presidential leadership.

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mophan

January 19, 2010 10:07 PM in reply to wbgonne

70% of Americans supported the public option. Over a majority of Americans are against the current version of this give-away to the insurance industry.

The numbers speak for themselves. Democrats are once again, after getting B*tCH slapped, are gonna get the wrong message and act confused. That is exactly what Webb said, and they deserve to lose come Nov. Don't demoralize your own base assholes. In Massachusetts of all places. This is what happens.

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AnswerFrog

January 19, 2010 10:13 PM in reply to mophan

We have 10% unemployment, and its midterm elections.

Historically, this is how voters usually vote.

We need to hold our losses in 2010, and beat them in 2012 with a rebound. GOP will overplay their hand and read too much into this.

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mophan

January 19, 2010 10:27 PM in reply to AnswerFrog

We won't hold our losses if we can't control the message. Republicans have managed to convince the nonthinking center, through sound bites, that the world started in Jan of '09, and everything is the Dems fault.

Just plain incompetence to lose in Massachusetts. And now we have jerks like Webb, with the ink on the ballots barely dry, abandoning one of the main principles that got them elected in the first place, pissing the base off more than they already are. You cannot win without your base.

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Tanjaoui

January 19, 2010 11:44 PM in reply to mophan

Yes, pass the Senate bill, amend it later through reconciliation (as suggested elsewhere on this site by Fred Moolton), adding a robust public option (as envisioned by Jacob Hacker). It takes some of the unpopular off the Senate regulatory capture/health care reform bill.

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Roman Berry

January 20, 2010 7:07 AM in reply to Tanjaoui

The only thing worse for Democrats than failing to pass the senate bill...would be passing the senate bill. The public hates it. The public wanted health care reform and this bill ain't that at all. Check the polls and don't be stupid. Passing this rotting carp of a bill would carry the electoral stench of death.

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notthatstupid

January 20, 2010 5:34 AM in reply to AnswerFrog

Yep. The over played hands are already starting to read this wrong.

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dannyluv

January 19, 2010 11:29 PM in reply to mophan

spot on! I couldnt have said it better mophan

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TheRealFish

January 20, 2010 1:01 AM in reply to mophan

And which of the Dem assholes are responsible for forcing, oh, maybe every single flapping-gum channel on the TeeVee machine to focus on Coakley screwing up who plays on which baseball team, oh, maybe all weekend long, while ignoring that Brown voted against MA granting aid to 9/11 MA Red Cross workers who got all effed-up working at "the pile" in response to the Twin Tower attacks in favor of spending MA money on a golf course and cutting corporate excise taxes?

I mean, really: Which would you consider to be the more sensationalistic news there? You know, ratings-grabbing news headline while both are equally true?

Sure, Coakley was asleep at the switch and maybe the MA Dem party should have spent some more money on ads — but the Corporate Mass Media placed a very big, very weighty thumb on the coverage scales on this one. Just like they've all been doing all year on Obama.

Obama is the 10th president of whom I have conscious memories. I don't remember much about Ike except that I saw him in living black and white on the TeeVee machine. And in all that time, with all those presidents, there was never EVER before such a thing as a "100 Day Report Card" or "200 Day Report Card" or presidential truth-o-meters keeping track of campaign promises, ad nauseum, ad infinitum. There has never been such pressure of scrutiny for any other president in my living memory, and with every hyperventilating breath carrying the threat of "if he hasn't accomplished X by Y then he fails!!!"

So, okay: It took 30 years to break this economy and Obama and the Dems didn't kiss it and make it all better in the first year? Throw the Bums Out!!! Right?

Yeah. Right. Where were these scrupulously overcaffeinated CMM press corps for Reagan or Bush the Lesser? What sort of world would we inhabit now if they had paid only 1/10th the amount of attention they are now for Obama? Would Reagan have been caught in the act of arming the Afghani resistance -- that became the Taliban we fight today? Would Bush Lite have been caught approving illegal wiretaps on citizens?

Oh. That's right. He admitted it. On national TeeVee. And they chatted about it for may 3 minutes and then went on to discuss Natalie Holloway.

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mophan

January 20, 2010 1:25 AM in reply to TheRealFish

All those words to just to show you are full of crap?

The media did play a huge role in this, I agree, but isn't that the job of the campaign manager to control their candidates message? Don't try to pass the blame here to things that are totally out of the control of the campaign. But also don't try to pretend shit just didn't blow up in their faces either. Some things were from their own doing. It works both ways.

The main point, you can't blame the informed public for choosing not to vote for Coakley because the DLC decided they weren't important enough to pass a popular bill when they had the opportunity to do so. The public option would have gone VERY well in MA because they are FORCED to carry health insurance already. Coakley wasn't even given a leg to stand on.

So, go on and continue to rant and point fingers, blame it on Schilling or that nice gas guzzling pickup, or maybe that sweet centerfold some closeted men really liked. The fact is, you control your own message, and if you don't, you loose. Just like Congressional Dems are realizing.

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Scottsdalian

January 19, 2010 10:08 PM in reply to wbgonne

No - I think the country has been quite consistent...as demonstrated by the polls over the last year.

Yes, people are desperate for presidential leadership...but it's not the president who runs Congress.

Dems in Congress have been gutless. They are letting the MINORITY - the party of NO - run the entire legislative process.

We the People voted to have the Dems run Congress...but the Dems immediately conceded the entire legislative agenda right back to the party that fukced this country up in the first place. THAT's what people are pissed about.

Yes, Obama needs to start kicking some serious ass in Congress - SERIOUS ass.

But the Dems got to find their own scrotums too.

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 10:11 PM in reply to Scottsdalian

I agree with all the replies but it still come down to this: either Obama takes charge and makes other pols fear and respect him or he's done. Like I said, we're about to see what Obama is made of.

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nightslider

January 20, 2010 3:12 AM in reply to Scottsdalian

the scrotum we despeartly seek does no endow Reid, if you were to look youd find a vulva overused by corporate D i cks

And Pelosie, dear god she is as bad as Palin here mouth flaps with useless utterances, Is anyone sick of the so called liberal wing of the party yet. But the ugly truth is tha Obama let this develop and actually captitualted to the lobbyists from big Pharma and Banks, yet not one of the presidents men has stood in front of a major insurance corporation with a sigh calling then death panels'.
And the complacent public sits around wanting change while they buy cheap chinesse shit that kills poisions,sicken,breaks,catches on fire, its time we failed perhaps the people might realize that the sixties need to be revisited with a veangance. getting time to take to the streets but we just aint there yet.
Maybe if Pelosie fails to get a quick vote in the senate for a health care bill the realization that indeed we are controled by the corporations will sink in.

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Libertine

January 19, 2010 10:08 PM in reply to wbgonne

No, not confused...but angry.

Angry that corporate interests were put ahead of the nation's best interests. Polls time and time again said a majority of the people wanted HCR with a public option, Obama campaigned on and as late as this summer insisted any reform needed to have a public option, in the end HCR was passed without a public option and the people turned on the politicians who didn't listen.

No, there isn't any confusion on the part of the American people in the slightest.

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JadeZ

January 19, 2010 10:34 PM in reply to Libertine

no doubt.

the question I would ask is how the hell did the white house miss what was going on?

the country is demonstrating its intense anger and they sit back like nothing is going on.

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Libertine

January 19, 2010 10:39 PM in reply to JadeZ

I just figure they thought that the American people would just go along with whatever the so-called 'adults in the room' came up with. Since in the minds of the so-called adults what they think is all that matters. The American public was quite clear on what we wanted if our health care system was going to be reformed, the people doing the reform didn't listen, their bosses, the American public got mad, and now our leaders are sitting around DC like, pardon my language, dumbfounded dipshits wondering what just happened.

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El Puerco

January 19, 2010 11:09 PM in reply to Libertine

So how were we going to get a public option when Lieberdick was willing to fillibuster it? The overwhelming number of Dem senators wanted a public option, but Senate rules prevented it. For now. The best thing to do is to pass an imperfect bill and add the public option later through reconciliation.

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mophan

January 19, 2010 11:23 PM in reply to El Puerco

Democrats, and Obama, right there and then should've seen what they were up against and gotten rid of the filibuster. No Republicans were willing to break with their caucus and ConservaDems wanted too high a price.

Leadership is doing what's right, and not worrying if what you are doing is going to get you reelected. The public option was the right thing to do. The Dems dropped the ball and now there is a price to pay.

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Libertine

January 19, 2010 11:41 PM in reply to El Puerco

They are the ones in charge they should have figured out a way. They didn't, they went against what they said they would do and what the public said they wanted...so the price must be paid. It is a bitter pill to swallow, no pun intended, because this country needs HCR and the WH, with super majorities in both bodies of congress, blew it big time. They fell right into the republican trap of passing a bill that could never be embraced by the middle class. Game, set, match on killing HCR? I hope not but we'll see...

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mophan

January 19, 2010 11:57 PM in reply to Libertine

A trap it was. These fools still think appeasing the right is the way to go.

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AJM

January 20, 2010 1:39 AM in reply to Libertine

We Democrats would have been ahead holding votes on bills we really wanted and then going to the voters saying here are the votes needed for what you really want and here are the people who blocked it. Coakley lost in part because she campaigned to be the 50th vote for a bill that the people in her state didn't want.

Not sure what the options are now. Not clear whether the votes exist in the House to pass the Senate version. Even if the Senate version is better than nothing ( a point on which I am dubious), it now has to be decided whether it is worth the political damage and foregone opportunities on other issues.

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DA in LA

January 20, 2010 12:25 AM in reply to JadeZ

How the hell have they missed how upset most people are about the health care bill.

Answer: This white house is good at winning elections, but politically inept at running one.

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martingauthier

January 19, 2010 10:34 PM in reply to Scottsdalian

I'd like to remind Sen. Webb that he wore his son's combat boots during his campaign because of the deceptive and misleading policies and practices of the prior ruling party. To imply that Democrats deserved to be chastened because they have been less than open with the American public is a disservice to his son and shows what a crass political ploy that was.

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patrickesnyder

January 19, 2010 10:36 PM in reply to Scottsdalian

Webb's a good man, but he also a conservadem. You don't serve 4 years in the Reagan administration without some conservacred. So this is really no surprise.

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 10:38 PM in reply to patrickesnyder

Maybe not on a policy level but on a political level it is an in-your-face to Obama.

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dannyluv

January 19, 2010 11:31 PM in reply to patrickesnyder

someone needs to tell the "good man" to sit down and shut tfu

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TheRealFish

January 20, 2010 12:22 AM in reply to Scottsdalian

Please keep this in mind: Webb used to be a Ref&cklican. He was serving Undersecretary of the Navy (or somesuch) under Reagan. He is not true blue progressive there. If people lose their fricking minds and actually turn control of congress back over to the ones who broke it, he could very easily switch sides again.

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eratosthenes8

January 19, 2010 10:12 PM in reply to wbgonne

If Obama finally becomes a leader, I'll be shocked.

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mophan

January 19, 2010 10:42 PM in reply to eratosthenes8

I have supported Obama, and will continue to support him. One year is not enough time to fix the mess that was left to him. But my continued support is not to be taken for granted as many on the left feel they have.

His diservance of my support can at least start with some sort of leadership on his part.

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masanf

January 19, 2010 10:21 PM in reply to wbgonne

Yeah, it takes a lot of courage to double down in your attempts to ram through a toxically unpopular bill by making backroom deals that exempt Democratic constituencies from taxation and by paying off reluctant Senators with deals that burden the rest of the country. I almost hope they try to pass the health care bill now, because if they do, their fates will be sealed in 2010, and the so-called 40 year Democratic majority will come to an end after only a few years.

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El Puerco

January 19, 2010 11:11 PM in reply to masanf

Which Democratic constituencies are exempt from taxation?

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jske

January 19, 2010 11:20 PM in reply to El Puerco

the unions. the deal on taxing, at approx. 40%, the so-called "cadillac" insurance plans. Unions cut a deal to exempt its members from this tax until 2018. BS.

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JorgeOrwell

January 20, 2010 2:08 AM in reply to wbgonne

No confusion here. I really thought Coakley would pull it off, but Obama calculated wrongly when he threw the public option and drug re-importation under the bus. Put the bill in doubt with middle class taxpayers. I know everyone thinks otherwise, but this article explains why I believe opposite of the conventional wisdom being sold in the media...

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/dwitkowitz/

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dem4life

January 20, 2010 9:06 AM in reply to wbgonne

He does and must step up but I disagree with Webb....We should not wait for the klansmen

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eratosthenes8

January 19, 2010 9:52 PM

Not that I'm happy about it, but things are pretty much following the path I predicted.

I suspect health care reform is dead.

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Rich in NJ

January 19, 2010 9:53 PM

The House needs to pass the Senate bill on Wednesday. That will force everyone to STFU.

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rb6

January 19, 2010 9:55 PM in reply to Rich in NJ

Yes. This is true. More than anything, Obama needs to change the f'ing narrative and soon.

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Steve LaBonne

January 19, 2010 9:56 PM in reply to Rich in NJ

Don't bet on that happening. Even if the progressives cave as usual, the Blue Dogs are going to abandon ship like the rats they are.

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Rich in NJ

January 19, 2010 9:57 PM in reply to Steve LaBonne

That wouldn't be caving.

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McMia

January 19, 2010 10:03 PM in reply to Steve LaBonne

Actually if they are going to shove this down the throats of the House congresscritters with no sugar and a jagged, rusty spoon it just makes sense to have someone come out and close off any other paths.

Webb's as good a mouthpiece as any...

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Jonathan Evans

January 19, 2010 9:55 PM

This is a really stupid idea: draw out reform, then watch it die or wage a politically destructive battle with reconciliation. Vote now and get it over with.

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Jen R

January 19, 2010 9:55 PM

Are there any elected Democrats who *aren't* jumping at this loss as an excuse not to have to do their damn jobs? If so, I'd sure as hell like to hear from a few of them.

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pol

January 19, 2010 9:56 PM

Jim Webb, I voted for you, but just shut up!

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EastWest

January 19, 2010 10:04 PM in reply to pol

You took the words outta my mouth. I voted for this guy too. Seems he's rediscovering his Repug roots. I was wondering how long it would take Dems to start running to the right. Now I know. Sadly.

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 10:09 PM in reply to EastWest

Please see my comment below. Everyone will test Obama now and they'll continue until he takes control. It's all about the wasta. Right now, even Dem the pols don't fear Obama.

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EastWest

January 19, 2010 10:14 PM in reply to wbgonne

I completely agree about the need for Obama to show some leadership. Been sayin' that for some time now - not particularly politely, either, but there it is....

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 9:57 PM

O-Man. Show us the wasta or say goodbye.

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bluebell

January 19, 2010 9:57 PM

Webb is another reason I've turned green. Sheesh, did we hear that kind of b.s after the Franken election?

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ShoelessJoeMcCarthy

January 19, 2010 9:57 PM

OMG, Jim Webb needs to STFU too. If these idiots think acting more like Joe Lieberman will somehow save the day, we might as well forego the formality of the 2010 midterms and just hand Congress back to the Republicans right now. Gutless! Josh is right on about what's happening. If the Democrats had any gumption they'd push a conference bill through in the next two weeks. The Republicans sure as hell didn't wait for new folks to be seated in 1999 when they impeached Clinton after a bad midterm result.

If this is the kind of jackass braying going on from weak-kneed centrist Dems, I have grave doubts that the House will pingpong the Senate bill...or that spineless Dems like Webb will go along with reconciliation promises.

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AnswerFrog

January 19, 2010 10:00 PM in reply to ShoelessJoeMcCarthy

Cosign.

STFU, Webb.

STFU.

""In many ways the campaign in Massachusetts became a referendum not only on health care reform but also on the openness and integrity of our government process."

We don't need YOU jackass talking like this. We have 41 Republicans to spin it in their favor. Your job is to spin it for Dems, or if you can't, then simply STFU.

And when you are tempted to open your piehole again with a "thought", go back to rule #!: STFU!

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mophan

January 19, 2010 11:25 PM in reply to AnswerFrog

ConservaDems are Republicans. At least old time Republicans. This is our new reality.

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MarciaJ720

January 19, 2010 9:58 PM

Obama is going to have to prove he is for the average American and NOT Corporate America.

Americans already feel so taken by the Oil guys, the Bankers, the Wall-Streeters, the Pharmacuetical Industry and of course the Healthcare INSURANCE Industry. Not to mention the cost of the military industrial complex.

And the sad part is, people like Joe Lieberman think Americans want to move to the Right.

No, Americans want the Federal Government to look after their needs, not Wall-Streets or any other corporate street.

But on a positive, this was only a 5% spread - which means voters aren't exactly going Brown's way...

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ShoelessJoeMcCarthy

January 19, 2010 10:01 PM in reply to MarciaJ720

Yeah, when exactly did we move LEFT? I guess I missed it.

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jsdc007

January 19, 2010 10:05 PM in reply to ShoelessJoeMcCarthy

We never did.

We just sat on our fannies while we let the right, the teabaggers and other liars define us something we're not.

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AnswerFrog

January 19, 2010 9:59 PM

Real team player, Webb.

Fuck you.

It's one thing to consider weaseling out like a gutless coward. But why the fucking rapid response???? Is there a benefit from rushing to kick everyone in the teeth with that little chesnut? Talking about fucking piling on. I repeat: FUCK YOU.

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bluebell

January 19, 2010 10:01 PM in reply to AnswerFrog

He couldn't even wait till she finished her speech. Of course, he's not exactly female friendly is he?

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 10:01 PM in reply to AnswerFrog

Now he CAN get the amendment he wanted for health care: every woman who wants to have an abortion must purchase a gun.

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AnswerFrog

January 19, 2010 10:04 PM in reply to wbgonne

VA is a purple state, but still too damn red for my liking.

Webb is the best we can get there? That sucks.

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ShoelessJoeMcCarthy

January 19, 2010 10:00 PM

You mean the way the Republicans restored respect by stonewalling Franken's being seated for seven months?

Honestly, with remarks like this, why should the RNC waste money on advertising? Just get Evan Bayh and Jim Webb on the teevee!

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Lord Mike

January 19, 2010 10:00 PM

Rahm is going to need a 2 x 4 to get the Senate bill passed in the House, but I hope he gets it out, that's for sure!

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 10:02 PM in reply to Lord Mike

Rahm is a fucking moron. First thing Obama should do is fire his sorry DLC ass.

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Scottsdalian

January 19, 2010 10:16 PM in reply to wbgonne

Rahm?????

Why the hell isn't Obama grabbing the 2x4??? He's the frickin POTUS.

C'mon Obama - no more Mr. Nice Guy. Time to start kickin ass. Everybody's ass - Dems, repubs, whoever deserves one.

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EastWest

January 19, 2010 10:09 PM in reply to Lord Mike

What the fuck? Rahm is 90% of the problem!

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AnswerFrog

January 19, 2010 10:10 PM in reply to EastWest

Agreed. Not impressed by Rahm at all. He's worthless and a detriment to Obama.

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Turnaround

January 19, 2010 10:35 PM in reply to AnswerFrog

Agree. Fire Rahm, Summers, and Geithner tomorrow. Clean house.

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 10:48 PM in reply to Turnaround

Damn right. Geithner and Summers gotta go. Here's a bulletin for the White House: Wall Street is unpopular. Wake the fuck up.

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Chris Weagel

January 19, 2010 10:01 PM

The Republicans Stab the working class in the back, The Democrats twist the knife. And half the time they're so worthless they can't decide whether to turn clockwise or counterclockwise.

All of the people mobilized to elect Obama could've been used as support in taking on the health insurance industry, wall street, even the military hawks. Instead it's utterly wasted so the American Empire can sputter on a few more years. Pathetic.

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Maritza

January 19, 2010 10:01 PM

Why?

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Maritza

January 19, 2010 10:03 PM

That won't be a problem. It will be up to the House to pass the Senate bill and then through reconciliation the changes can be made. That most likely won't happen any ways until Brown is seated.

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medhat

January 19, 2010 10:04 PM

I thought Lieberman said Americans wanted to move to the Center. Right/Left is a matter of perspective, but it would seem the Brown victory would support old Joe's contention. Also, honestly, a 5% spread is Mass. is simply getting smoked, and Dems can either face it head on or bury their heads in the sand and get walloped again in November, which is even more concerning. Don't typically like to cite The Daily Show as a reference, but Stewart made a great (and typically funny) point. GWB got a lot (!?) done with a significantly smaller majority.

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 10:07 PM in reply to medhat

No. Moving right is just what caused this disaster. Go populist and jam it all through and make anyone who gets in the way suffer.

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bluebell

January 19, 2010 10:10 PM in reply to wbgonne

True, when people are mad as hell they want passionate fighters not groveling appeasers.

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mophan

January 19, 2010 10:20 PM in reply to medhat

You know, you are exactly right. Dems do need to face this head on and say exactly who they are. Republican light is not gonna cut it. You can't win when your base doesn't support you, and the "center" just goes with whomever has the best looking centerfold. Republicans have owned the message since summer while the Dems continued their circle jerk.

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clearthinker

January 19, 2010 10:07 PM

Now is an excellent time to strip Joe Lieberman of his chairmanship. He's not needed. Make an example of him.Get the House to pass the bill and then squeeze the Senate with budget reconciliation. For measure after measure. Time to play hardball in the Senate.

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AnswerFrog

January 19, 2010 10:11 PM in reply to clearthinker

That's not even needed. He's irrelevent. Ole Joe probably shed a tear tonight.

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geofu54

January 19, 2010 10:14 PM in reply to AnswerFrog

Sadly, that's the only solace we can take from this shit.

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Viva!America!

January 19, 2010 10:08 PM

Didn't they say this before the election? Didn't Senator Scott say he wanted to be seated on Friday?

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bluebell

January 19, 2010 10:12 PM in reply to Viva!America!

Yeah, maybe Webb made a deal with him BEFORE the election.

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geofu54

January 19, 2010 10:11 PM

He who plays "nice" to fuckin idiots is the worst fuckin idiot. Fuck you, Webb.

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ShoelessJoeMcCarthy

January 19, 2010 10:14 PM

You know, appeasing and capitulating to Republicans has worked so well for us. We need to do more of it! After all, with Brown's election they're now the majority party, right?!

Maritza, I'd like to think you're right, but these rush-to-appease remarks from Webb and Bayh make me think they won't even go along with modifying the excise tax through reconciliation. We shouldn't ever, ever do anything without Republican approval! Or they might beat us even WORSE next time.

Dear God, please bring back Howard Dean as head of the DNC.

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AnswerFrog

January 19, 2010 10:17 PM in reply to ShoelessJoeMcCarthy

Cosign. Bring Dean back.

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flavius

January 19, 2010 10:16 PM

Obama must choose. Continue to posture as a lovable consensus builder.Or have a Health Care Bill . David Brooks is the marker. Only when he drops his condescending aupport of Obama will we know we're making progress.

Which side are you on , brother?

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matt in so dak

January 19, 2010 10:18 PM in reply to flavius

I'll be with the union till every battle's won.

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S Green

January 19, 2010 10:17 PM

A (feigned?) panic button has self-triggered among the conservative wing of the Democratic party, OR, seeing an opportunity in this defeat, this wing is trying to gain more power?

As a Dean democrat, I am more confused now, with Webb's call to halt the Health Care bill. Extreme right wing of the party joining the left of the party, albeit, for different reasons, which is either to save their seat or to gain more power as the Coakley defeat has occasioned an opportunity for them?

Last word, we the base have been disillusioned with Barry and we slept through this election. Barry, the self-proclaimed leader of the New Democrat (formerly, DLC) must know: The more you ignore the base, the more you get these defeats!

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Viva!America!

January 19, 2010 10:25 PM in reply to S Green

Yes, O should focus on all 10% of you.

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mophan

January 19, 2010 10:36 PM in reply to Viva!America!

The 10% that you speak of is the same 10% that work their ass off every election and are the backbone of this party. Keep on acting all smug because DLC like Lieberman, Webb and Nelson are wetting their pants and the rest of the party must cow tow to them. Let's see how far that'll get them in November.

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jenesq

January 19, 2010 10:51 PM in reply to mophan

Well, thanks for nothing in MA. I'll believe in the importance of the so-called left wing base when they actually win some elections.

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 10:58 PM in reply to jenesq

Bullshit. The base isn't the problem, the leadership is.

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brewmn61

January 19, 2010 11:56 PM in reply to wbgonne

How about the base AND the leadership is the problem? Can you meet me halfway here?

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wbgonne

January 20, 2010 12:18 AM in reply to brewmn61

No I can't. Compromises and halfway measures are insufficient. The country must move dramatically of we are fucked. America's greatness is slipping away and our change to shape history is evaporating. We need BOLD leadership not milquetoast diddling. The base is on board and ready to work and fight. Where are those who will lead us into battle?

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mophan

January 20, 2010 9:35 AM in reply to wbgonne

Compromises and half-way measures is exactly what got us into this mess.

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mophan

January 19, 2010 11:03 PM in reply to jenesq

You are looking at it the wrong way... you CANNOT win without them. So, wake up and stop taking them for granted. The public option had 70% approval with the American PUBLIC! So what does the leadership of the party decide to do? Take it out and replace it with not only something that pissed their base off, but the rest of the country too. A corporate giveaway. Truly the smartest thing to come up with, especially with the anger already boiling over with TARP and wall street bonuses.

So, no, thank you and the rest of the DLC for this debacle in MA.

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Viva!America!

January 19, 2010 11:01 PM in reply to mophan

A LOT OF PEOPLE WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF TO GET OUR PRESIDENT ELECTED NOT JUST THE INTERNET LEFT!!!

The Complete Arrogance from some of you!! SIXTY SIX MILLION PEOPLE VOTED FOR HIM and he is supposed to only focus his attention what a tiny portion wants? And even THAT tiny portion has become split on what they think his first year was like. That tiny portion who gave up on him many months ago? That tiny portion who is never pleased with anything? Why the hell should he make his entire presidency about you?

Last year I saw several reports claiming that it was African Americans that put him over, then it was Hispanics, then it Independents and then I heard it was Republicans who came across the aisle and voted for him. Obama needs to focus on what is good for the MAJORITY!!! not a bunch of people who seem to think the prosecution of Cheney and W and not getting rid of Rahm is the reason why his approval numbers are falling.

YOU are NOT his ENTIRE base. And maybe when you realize that his world and agenda does not revolve around you, you probably won't feel so betrayed every time something doesn't go your way.

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mophan

January 19, 2010 11:12 PM in reply to Viva!America!

Working your ass off doesn't simply mean going to the voting booth and pulling a lever. The ones that WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF are PISSED AND ARE TIRED OF BEING RUN OVER BY THE BUS!

What don't you understand? Why take out a popular piece of legislation, the public option supported by over 70% of the American PUBLIC (including the left), and replace it with a corporate giveaway that amounts to a tax on the middle class just to appease one or two Senators that weren't going to vote for it anyway? Get it though your thick skull.

We are not asking for EVERYT GOD DAMN THING! But at least it would be nice to get a reach around every once-in-while when I'm bending over.

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jenesq

January 19, 2010 11:26 PM in reply to mophan

I worked my ass off for Obama, seven days a week for months. I made many friends during the campaign. Only one was a member of what you might call "the left wing base." The rest were moderates, and a few were former Bush voters. Just as the teabaggers overplayed their hand in NY-23, so it seems the "Daily Kos left" are going to overplay their hands in 2010...maybe it already happened in MA. The result? Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. Bravo!

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 11:38 PM in reply to jenesq

You are an idiot. I live in MA. Obama's zeal to appear centrist wrecked health care and demoralized his base. Obama won MA by 26 points yet the DLC Dems like you just forfeited Ted Kennedy's seat to a Teabagger. How's that working for ya?

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mophan

January 19, 2010 11:55 PM in reply to wbgonne

Good points! But I would have finished with "who's side are you on?"

Progressives are PISSED and the ConservaDems want to run more to the right? This is exactly what this country needs. Let's start a couple more wars, cut taxes for the rich and raise them for the poor, all-the-while balloon the deficit 2 or 4 or 10 trillion dollars more. We got a lot of catching up to do to even resemble Republicans. I'll through in a few billion dollar contracts to my good 'ole boys and torture a couple of brownies while am at it just for good measure.

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mophan

January 19, 2010 11:41 PM in reply to jenesq

You seriously want to compare the teabagger movement that has taken over the Republican party with progressives wanting at least some of the crumbs that fall from the table of the food they helped cook? Seriously? Progressives hand you a "cannot loose with the American public legislation" in the Public Option and the DLC finds a way to not only backstab the left, but turn off any other sane independent that may have considered voting for Coakley tonight.

If the leg is gang-greenish, then to save the life it must be cut off. Keep taking progressives for granted and see how well you do in November.

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jenesq

January 19, 2010 11:52 PM in reply to mophan

Who suffers from your fit of pique? If you are as important as you think, you'll hand the country over to wingnuts. If you're not as important as you think, you will cement your irrelevance. Either way, you lose.

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mophan

January 20, 2010 12:21 AM in reply to jenesq

Your ungrateful attitude towards progressives and all they have been able to accomplished is exactly why Coakley lost tonight, and the Dems will loose again in November.

Progressive ideas will eventually be embraced again, just like in 2008, and the DLC will come groveling back pretending to have always stood next to them, and like jilted lovers progressives will accept them again.

But for the moment the time is passed. The DLC has once again shown with who they really want to sleep with (corporate lobbyist). Always after the money. Good luck, DLC.

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brewmn61

January 20, 2010 1:02 AM in reply to mophan

"Your ungrateful attitude towards progressives and all they have been able to accomplished"

Remind me, what exactly it is that "they" have accomplished again?

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wbgonne

January 20, 2010 1:23 AM in reply to brewmn61

Yup, keep rooting for Republican-Lite. Maybe we can give up Boxer's seat next.

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brewmn61

January 20, 2010 9:57 AM in reply to wbgonne

Can't come up with an answer to the question, can you?

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wbgonne

January 20, 2010 12:22 AM in reply to jenesq

Wow. You must have gone to law school.

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matt in so dak

January 19, 2010 10:17 PM

Dear God, please bring back presidential candidate Howard Dean.

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mcc

January 19, 2010 10:17 PM

Is it Webb's decision what goes up for a vote?

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jske

January 19, 2010 11:25 PM in reply to mcc

No, but he and possibly one or two other like-minded dems can join the repub filibuster "on behalf of the people of MA" - or something like that...

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mcc

January 19, 2010 11:31 PM in reply to jske

Oh, he absolutely can do that.

I say we make him.

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shooter242

January 19, 2010 10:17 PM

My, my. What an entertaining outcome. Ted Kennedy's Senate seat goes to a Republican. Life is good.

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matt in so dak

January 19, 2010 10:19 PM in reply to shooter242

Life is good. Demographic changes in this countries minority to inbred population will see the elimination of the Southern Strategy as a political ploy in my lifetime.

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masanf

January 19, 2010 10:38 PM in reply to matt in so dak

You people are so fucking clueless. This election should have proved that people will punish the party that is pushing an agenda they don't like. The notion that hispanics are going to vote Democrat just because is racist and pathetic.

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ShoelessJoeMcCarthy

January 19, 2010 10:41 PM in reply to shooter242

Yes, great, tens of millions of Americans may now remain without health-care insurance, and even a watered-down corporate-centrist challenge to the reigning tyranny of the health-insurance industry may not ultimately pass. That's just great, Shooter2. Go back to Free Republic and party with the rest of the obstructionist, do-nothing teabaggers whose ideology got us here in the first place.

Insane that Democrats have let the Republicans, the rightwing noise machine, and an enabling mainstream media turn this country into a place where a supermajority is now required to pass a single thing. And let the Republicans, the rightwing noise machine, and an enabling media turn this country into a place where hate and obstructionism (see teabagger August 2009) and murderous denunciation of the president become a winning strategy in domestic politics.

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jenesq

January 19, 2010 11:49 PM in reply to ShoelessJoeMcCarthy

Shooter will be smugly satisfied until he loses his health care and goes bankrupt because of a mundane illness or common injury.

Oh, what am I thinking? Half of the right wing is already on Medicare or some other sort of government subsidized program...they simply have no self-awareness or sense of irony.

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AnswerFrog

January 19, 2010 10:21 PM

This is why Democratic leadership should NEVER come from a red state.

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outside it's america

January 19, 2010 10:32 PM

Looks like the insurance company death panels will hold sway for another generation.

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Maritza

January 19, 2010 10:33 PM

Rachel Maddow was REALLY good tonight. She basically said that Democrats HAVET TO PASS A HEALTH CARE BILL within 30 days or they are sunk.

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 10:37 PM in reply to Maritza

Yeah, well maybe if Rachel hadn't gone in the tank for Obama on health care, Obama would have worried a bit about antagonizing his base. Maybe. And maybe we wouldn't have lost Ted Kennedy's seat. Maybe. Rachel is an Opinion Leader. And god save us from the Opinion Leaders.

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jske

January 19, 2010 11:29 PM in reply to Maritza

If the dems don't pass HCR in the next seven (7) days - before the SOTU address, they won't get another chance. blue dog dems and dems from red states / districts are already re-thinking their votes.

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 11:52 PM in reply to jske

So what. The POS they've rendered should be burned in hell.

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Turnaround

January 19, 2010 10:33 PM

I used to like Jim Webb. Even thought he was a viable future presidential candidate.

But Webb, you're dead to me now.

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mophan

January 19, 2010 11:31 PM in reply to Turnaround

Dead like the fish. The left will remember.

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Scottsdalian

January 19, 2010 10:39 PM

Obama - time to break out the broom.

Sweep out all of the non-team players. Dump Lieberman's ass NOW.

Follow with dumping any/all of the conservative Dems - if they want to be conservatives...let them join the repubs.

If all the sweeping takes you down to a 51-49 Senate, so be it.

At least you'll know who's got your back and who will advance your/America's agenda.

START NOW.

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richard f

January 19, 2010 10:47 PM in reply to Scottsdalian

Most of the people commenting are just morons. The fact is that Obama doesn't have the ability to kick ass in the senate. What's he supposed to do - threaten them with not campaigning for them? He doesn't have sixty votes. Simple as that. Webb is just reading the election returns and knows the populace is going to revolt at some strategy that tries to get a new bill passed before Brown is seated (even if it were physically possible). The only hope is for the House to pass the Senate bill and I don't see them as having enough votes to do that. Health reform is dead during the first Obama term.

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 11:01 PM in reply to richard f

Ridiculous. I am SO FUCKING SICK of people saying what Obama can't do. He is the PRESIDENT!

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jenesq

January 19, 2010 11:13 PM in reply to wbgonne

He is the president, not a dictator. Perhaps you missed the part of civics class that dealt with the three co-equal branches of government. I agree that Obama should be less respectful of those boundaries, out of sheer necessity, but even then there is a limit to what he can do. Let's not forget that much of what Bush did was done with a blank check from Congress (the Iraq War authorization), and even he couldn't manage to push through his pet domestic issues (privatizing Social Security...god, what a disaster that would have been!!...and immigration reform).

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 11:30 PM in reply to jenesq

Yeah, Obama the Impotent President. Inspirational. THAT is how we lost Ted Kennedy's seat. Wake up. The battle is joined whether you acknowledge it or not. You want to save the country? Fight. Stop being so goddamn pleasant.

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jenesq

January 19, 2010 11:41 PM in reply to wbgonne

You confuse anger and crudeness with passion for a cause. Don't....it's a mistake. You can drop f-bombs and belittle Obama until the cows come home, but that won't accomplish a damn thing. Republicans win because they are canny enough to avoid the circular firing squad, and yet people like you never seem to realize that, and keep shooting yourself in the foot over and over and over again. If you'd taken half your passion to MA and used it in a positive way, we'd have a Democratic victory tonight.

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mophan

January 20, 2010 1:04 AM in reply to jenesq

Republicans win because they are canny enough to avoid the circular firing squad, and yet people like you never seem to realize that, and keep shooting yourself in the foot over and over and over again.

Gee, I sort've remember sometime around the summer ConservaDems like you saying the same thing about those silly little tea-baggers. But now, here we are. We find ourselves discussing Ted Kennedy's old seat taken over by those same tea-baggers. Amazing how those circular firing squads work. Eventually they hit the target.

I wonder... where is our Bachman, our Beck, our Demint? On Palin, on Rush, on Pawlenty. We have no leaders while the tea-baggers, astonishingly (for a small and irrelevant movement), have an abundance.

Put your head in the sand and continue to pretend all we need is to shift a little more to the right. I'll just go right out and be a full fledged tea-partier then.

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KdNicewanger

January 20, 2010 12:32 AM in reply to jenesq

"He is the president, not a dictator."

His enemies began calling his the latter long ago. He may as well start acting a little like one. It's not like they're going to back off now.

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Xpostfactoid

January 19, 2010 10:41 PM

Open letter to Webb:

Dear Senator Webb:

I eagerly followed your long-odds campaign for the Senate and sent you money. I have been on your mailing list ever since. I have read your novels and admired your service and your writing.

Now I've just read your statement calling for a pause in votes on health care legislation. I wish you had never been elected. Without a 60-vote majority, Democrats would have coped somehow. Now you are putting a stake in health care reform. Why? What's your game? The House is perfectly within its rights to vote on the Senate bill. The process that you've called into question has been the most open legislative process in U.S. history. I have followed the negotiation of every major provision in the news; I have examined the passed bills online. What is this nonsense about "the process" being suspect? The only thing that's 'suspect,' it appears to me, are the polls. You seem to be giving the signal for House Democrats to cut and run, kill the excellent HCR bills that have crawled so slowly through the legislative process, and doom the Democratic party to impotence and defeat.

Better to be a one-termer in either chamber and help to pass this bill than to rusticate in the Senate or House for decades after helping to kill it. Why are you undercutting the President, and your party?

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jenesq

January 19, 2010 10:48 PM

I agree that now is the time for Obama to go all George W. Bush on Congress. I have long defended Obama for respecting the co-equal branches of government and otherwise governing as I would wish a president would govern. However, it seems that Congressional Democrats have a larger than average number of clueless tools among them, so it's time to bust some heads...if W could run roughshod over this country with a bare majority, Obama can kick some ass with 55-59 votes. It shouldn't have to be this way, but apparently it is...these dimwits care more about getting re-elected than they do about governing.

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wbgonne

January 19, 2010 10:54 PM in reply to jenesq

Right. One must be realistic and the truth is America is like a really big and stupid person and Americans are children. We NEED someone to lead us and when the president doesn't do it someone else will. O-Man. Please read the fucking manual! (It's under the bed in the Lincoln bedroom.)

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Vox Populi

January 20, 2010 12:41 AM in reply to wbgonne

At LAST! One of you blurts out the truth. The American people are just
a bunch of big stupid children. What we really NEED is a dear supreme
leader to kick us in the ass and tell us how to think.

Sorry you condescending facist. When oh-so-smart elitists like you
try to do that the PEOPLE will rise up and prevent it. Which is exactly
what just happened in Massachusetts.

But in a way you have swerved into a truth that has escaped a lot of
your compatriots here. This is NOT a "progressive" country. It will NEVER
be a "progressive" country. Even when a "progressive" is elected
president, he can't govern as a "progressive", because Americans aren't
"progressive". You will always have to try to force us into it. But you
can't. Give up.

By the way, the American people are not confused. We know exactly what we
did today. Obama promised he would listen to us and try to be a president
for us all. When he turned out to be one of you, we stopped him.

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wbgonne

January 20, 2010 1:28 AM in reply to Vox Populi

Yeah, I guess you expressed the very same anti-fascist fervor while we suffered through the Bush Dark Age. No?

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bill

January 19, 2010 10:53 PM

The Democrats only have 58 or 100 votes in the Senate now, so, better not vote on anything. Of course , that's just the kind of logic that would appeal to Obama "Oh, Democrats only have 60 votes in the Senate and a supermajority in the House and a Democratic in the White House, better water everything down, to get some Republican support." Man oh Man, that Jim Webb sure knows how to appeal to Obama - wait , water , and leave the status quo alone. Perfect Change You Can Believe In !

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gharlane

January 19, 2010 11:08 PM

Thank you, Senator Webb, for your help tonight! Love how you roll, bro! Can I call you Jim?

Signed,

Michael Steele

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Jim H

January 19, 2010 11:14 PM

Who were all those fools pushing Webb as VP 2 years ago? You want to own up to that anytime soon?

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anna am

January 20, 2010 12:47 AM in reply to Jim H

He always creeped me out. His 2007 response to the State of the Union blew me away, but he still never sat quite right with me. Part of it was simply the way he felt on my skin, but bigger part was his resumé.

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Scott in PacNW

January 19, 2010 11:26 PM

Somehow, I don't think Nancy will be taking Jim's advice.

Thanks but no thanks.

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darkrhyme

January 19, 2010 11:28 PM

If one is gutless and spineless how can one function?

Democrats know.

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darkrhyme

January 19, 2010 11:33 PM

Come on. You guys expect spine and strategy from a political party that allowed itself to be beaten silly on the issue of national security by an opposing political party who allowed the worst terrorist attack in American history to occur on its watch?

Really. Come on. Here's the truth about the gutless DC Democratic establishment: They only succeed when the GOP fucks up so badly that people can't rationalize voting for them anymore.

The DC Democrats have the marketing and messaging acumen of the idiots who created New Coke.

And it's going to cost American lives and prosperity.

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mophan

January 20, 2010 9:30 AM in reply to darkrhyme

I've been saying the very same thing. The Democrats have themselves to blame. They can't find sand in a desert.

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LBJs Brain

January 19, 2010 11:35 PM

I'd like to have a word with Josh about the "headline" of HCR being "dead". I guess that's his way of getting "readership"?

Webb and a host of other blue dogs get the cover they want from tonite's results but they are chickenshit. What idiot gives the GOP cover the way Webb has?

Madame Speaker isn't, and once the chicken littles have had their say, she will continue on. I say full steam ahead. Anyone think the GOP will ever negotiate or be bipartisan? I've got a piece of oceanfront property in Nevada I'd like to sell you.

All the GOP has wanted is delay and they've gotten it! Don't fall (further than you already have) for it. Pass the damb bill!

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Dan Poq

January 19, 2010 11:35 PM

Sent to Senator Webb:

Senator Webb,
I recently moved to Virginia and would have voted for you if I was here when you were running. Please don't run from the health care issue and 'be fair' with people who only want to defeat any reform. You know the opposing party would never be fair and in fact they kept Senator Franken from being seated to prevent Health Care reform from moving forward. This is not about fairness. The fact that a 40% minority can and will keep anything meaningful or helpful from moving forward just to score political points should inform your decision. This reform is better than nothing, which is what we will have left if you do not act swiftly with the majority and pass this. I know this is not important but you will not have the votes of myself, wife, and mother next time. I'd have to vote for a Republican. At least they stand together for their mistaken principles.

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Barry Champlain

January 19, 2010 11:40 PM

People like Webb, Nelson, Conrad, Lieberman... are "sleeper cells" in the Democratic Party.

That is, they sit there looking all venerable and Senatorial... but when it looks like there's a tight yet feasible avenue to get around the Republican obstructionists, these "sleeper cells" suddenly awaken, and trash the place as thoroughly as if they were the demon spawn of Newt Gingrich and Mitch McConnell.

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merlot

January 19, 2010 11:41 PM

Time to take Webb down... there is no room for a fraud in the room.... i will contribute to every opponent to Webb from today, GOP or Dem.... let's face it, a VA democrat is not a democrat, they are monarchists, aka GOPers... Webb's going to need a lot a vaseline because real Americans are gonna ream his ass....

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Tanjaoui

January 19, 2010 11:52 PM

Dems need to: pass the Senate HCR/regulatory capture bill in its current form, then amend it later through reconciliation, adding a robust public option designed as a political third rail: something, that, once enacted, is so popular and useful and widely available that no politician dares approach it, at risk to his political carreer.

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gharlane

January 20, 2010 1:43 AM in reply to Tanjaoui

I think that, to make the current Democratic Party do something sane like that, you would need to be more powerful than God.

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GermanyOrFlorida

January 20, 2010 12:03 AM

I'm sorry but what is wrong about what Webb says? Option A was NEVER on the table because they'll never get the bill out of CBO and if they played stall-ball with Brown, it'd be ridiculous. Webb isn't the problem here - he hasn't been stalling this bill forever.

As Josh has been saying, it's Option B or nothing.

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wbgonne

January 20, 2010 12:28 AM in reply to GermanyOrFlorida

Yes, let's immediately pass a Republican-lite, DLC bill that commands every U.S citizen to buy a very expensive product every month from antitrust-exempt private companies that have been gouging people for years. Good thing there's no populist uprising in the country so nobody will notice.

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anna am

January 20, 2010 1:44 AM in reply to wbgonne

Who is going to pass the bill you want? Look what's going on with even the compromise bill we're left with. And if the midterms bring more Republicans in, which you seem to guarantee they will, things will only be worse in a year.

So just how do you think the bill you want can happen? I wish one of you would explain this because all the talk that Obama's got to take the reins just makes my head hurt. I mean, how does he do that?

I can agree that he should've used the bully pulpit more, taken the cause directly to the people, but I don't think he would've won all the same. The Republicans got control of the mike a long time ago, they threw their narrative at the wall and it stuck. Shocked the hell out of me when it did, but the death panels and all the rest of the shit, it stuck. And don't say nobody rebutted this Republican tripe. There have been rebuttals, plenty of them, but nobody listened. Or some Dixiecrat yelled out YOU LIE and got lionized on national tv for it.

And it's precisely because this circus started touring so successfully that public support started heading south. Yes Congress's inadequacy turned people off, but what really happened is people who have coverage started to wonder if they were going to wind up with worse off than they are already. And now the insurance company's are really putting the fear of god in them, they're playing hardball and sticking it to everyone. Premium's going up, services going down. They're doing it all over the place, just like that, happy new year suckers, and people are freaking.

So no wonder the idiots on Capitol Hill, who never have had much spine, have the bends. The thing's a fricking mess and if you think Obama can just push some people around and fix it, you're living in an alternate universe. Obama absolutely can't make Congress pass this thing. Because they're beginning to worry that they're going to lose their seats not for not passing healthcare reform, but for passing it.

I mean, think about it, Massachusetts just elected a guy who is against the bill, who's going to kill it. That's the real sad truth of what's going down.

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LBJs Brain

January 20, 2010 1:50 AM in reply to anna am

Too true, but, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on Brown. Bad campaign by a mediocre candidate, shitty GOTV, and Brown was hungry. Coakley forgot (or never had?) that. This was still a local election after all. It WILL have national ramifications however, because everyone has been thrown into a tizzy.

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wbgonne

January 20, 2010 1:51 AM in reply to anna am

Isn't is curious how much more power Republican presidents have than Democratic presidents? Just where is that in the Constitution?

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Icarus

January 20, 2010 12:53 AM

Tonight gave us all further proof of Democratic party stupidity. It ran a candidate who wasn't likable and who didn't have a compelling story to sell -- just like Gore and Kerry -- and then it just hoped for the best. Once again, it delivered an uninspiring message, then when it lost, blamed anything but its own sloth and stupidity.
People are mad as hell about giveaways to Wall street and AIG, with more gifts planned to pharmaceutical and health ins. companies. And the Dems. couldn't make any use of that anger, no they let Repubs to co-opt it. The Democratic party's incompetence is limitless.

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tpinlb

January 20, 2010 12:58 AM

The lesson for the party is that it must break with the failures of the Obama administration. The democratic party needs Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s policies, not Herbert Hoover’s pro-bankster policies. This election was clearly a repudiation of Obama.

People will not accept slashing medicare spending, nor the forced purchase of insurance from thug insurance companies – both at the heart of Obama’s health care plan.

People won’t accept the continuing bailout of Wall Street and the banksters by Obama and his friends Bernanke, Geithner, Summers.

People won’t accept Obama’s escalation of the war in Afghanistan.

People won’t accept the president’s “no growth” carbon tax cap and trade that will kill energy intensive industries in the US and drive all of this real production overseas.

If the democrats are to provide real leadership, we must organize the flow of government credit to put the unemployed back to work in skilled, physically productive jobs… and this means real industrial jobs, not “green jobs” like washing solar panels and maintaining windmills – but real jobs building hospitals and schools and water projects and high speed rail lines and nuclear power plants. The insolvent large banks, who with twisted accounting have largely avoided realizing most of their losses in real estate and speculative paper, must be taken through bankruptcy reorganization, and the speculative unpayable debts written off. We must start again the flow of credit specifically targeted to real production in agriculture, mining, forestry, and industrial development.

The key is to have a pro-growth, pro-progress, intensive industrial expansion program that will put people back to work and improve everyone’s standard of living. This is the only solution. If the democrats fail to do this, then the people will throw them out of office.

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oleeb

January 20, 2010 1:15 AM

I didn't used to think of Webb as a chicken, but he clearly is. Having said that, I think forcing HCR to go back will end up being a good thing because the current bill sucks big time. Nothing would be better than sentencing the nation to endure a couple of decades of the Romney plan for health insurance which is, in essence, what the Obama plan is.

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Fitgerald

January 20, 2010 1:30 AM

The "moderate" democrats in the senate abandoning the president? This is no surprise. All the squishy senators, Webb, Bayh, Nelson, and Warner are going to thumb their noses at the White House.

So now an epic deal must be struck with Pelosi to quick vote the senate version, and get it signed.

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wbgonne

January 20, 2010 1:41 AM in reply to Fitgerald

Yeah right. Pass the DLC-Senate bill. That'll show the DLC who's boss.

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Fitgerald

January 20, 2010 1:43 AM in reply to wbgonne

Thanks for the input...Howard

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wbgonne

January 20, 2010 1:53 AM

Howard? ... Dean? Hughes? The Duck?

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Whynot

January 20, 2010 3:01 AM in reply to wbgonne

Having read all of the post before mine.
I must say that there are several very good points
Being put forth, The only one that I have a
problem with is expecting Obama to be a Leader,
Sorry old Joe would do a better job, Obama has never
Been and never will be a leader.
Now don’t go all nutty on me, it’s just the facts –
if you disagree, then show me here he got the experience,
and I’ll concede the point.

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acamus

January 20, 2010 8:55 AM in reply to Whynot

First you would have to define what experience you would deem relevant to being the Leader of the United States, since no one comes into the White House with that kind of leadership. My guess is that you define it in such a way that, surprise, you don't have to concede your point.

Maybe the problem is that Obama was hoping to lead a nation of adults, who would be leaders themselves, rather than a nation of children who don't want to make any sacrifices for the good of the nation, have a big father leader who tells them exactly what they need to do, who want less government while having the government fix all the problems right now.

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gingerman

January 20, 2010 3:08 AM

The Senate healthcare bill is poorly executed public policy and needs to be derailed. When John Birchers and MoveOn people agree there is probably something to the argument. Misguided expensive legislation just to pass a bill is not a good legacy. Its time to throttle back and for the President to demand an incremental approach that can be embraced by the majority of
Americans who want health care reform. These Byzantine backroom machinations achieve compromise without consensus. Insurance and Pharma stocks have gone up since the Senate passed the bill...we know who the winners are in this game.
Webb is right...he just should have spoke up sooner

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amazona

January 20, 2010 4:19 AM

Yes. That would be a nice for a change. A president who is actualy a leader. I'd like to experience that......

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Just Keep It Simple Stupid

January 20, 2010 4:51 AM

Senator Web needs to Shut the Fuck Up..... Would Republicans grant Dems that same previledge... HELL NO....

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gunslinger

January 20, 2010 5:51 AM

I am from the UK and it baffles me why so many people in your country despises Obama. We wish we had a leader like him here.

Also, to say that Obama has not achieved much is the biggest lie of the millennium. Moreover, what is so bad in having free health care? And what is the problem with the middle ground? Let me be clear, this loss can be blamed on the extreme left element of the democratic party that refuses to accept that in life you always and often have to compromise to get anything done.

Websites like the huffington post have turned against Obama because the public option was not part of the senate bill, on the other hand, they forgot that some things must be done in an incremental manner.

In closing, Americans do not appreciate what they have in Obama and as such, they do not deserve him

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General Zoddd

January 20, 2010 8:29 AM

In all fairness, a growing number of Americans wish you had a leader in the UK like Obama. In fact, many of us wish you had HIM in charge of the UK, since the UK isn't really big enough to do any damage. Putting a Marxist like Obama in charge of America was a major accomplishment in mass-marketing and, once America saw what his true colors are, we are rising up and rebelling. More government is not the answer, and the revolt in Democrat-only Massachusetts is the result.

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General Zoddd

January 20, 2010 8:35 AM

In point of fact, the conservatives are all praying that the Dems continue to thumb their noses at the will of the majority of Americans and pass this HCR legislation. It was the Democrat arrogance of not listening to the tea parties and the other voices of Americans loudly saying NO to this venture that lost them their super majority. If they pass this legislation now, there won't be a Democrat anywhere in Washington who has job security. Show some stones, Democrats!

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SaveElmer

January 20, 2010 9:08 AM

I worked for Webb's election in 2006 and was very happy when he was victorious. I can safely say I will not do so again in 2012.

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General Zoddd

January 20, 2010 9:48 AM

Webb ("Senator RoundMouth") was swarmed into office on a wave of media-induced hysteria and genned up racism against George Allen (macaca, anyone?). He's a typical politician who changed sides when he saw the opprtunity. Don't believe for a second he wouldn't do it again in a heartbeat.

Again, we're BEGGING the democrats to continue flouting the will of the American people and PASS THIS HEALTHCARE REFORM! PLEASE do it before the November elections! It's the only way to show how closely this administration mirrors the ultimate failed administration of our time, that of James Earl Carter in the 1970s and the quickest way to usher this band of leftwing radicals into another long and productive retirement.

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Silence

January 20, 2010 9:51 AM

The people DO NOT want this shady, corrupt bill. Proceed at your own peril.

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ilovebacon

January 20, 2010 10:06 AM in reply to Silence

There is no "the people." When will you populist peasants learn that. You can't get two people to agree on anything--let alone the "entire" populace. Sheeeesh!

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jenesq

January 20, 2010 10:29 AM in reply to ilovebacon

Jesus, that reminds me of a Facebook status a right-wing relative posted...something about how "the people's voice will finally be heard in Washington!" What utter nonsense. First of all, as you said, "the people" have a variety of differing opinions, and second of all, the voice of the people is ALWAYS heard in an election...sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but you still got to be "heard" because you got to vote....you aren't entitled to win.

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ilovebacon

January 20, 2010 10:40 AM in reply to jenesq

Exactly. This is why populism is so tedious.

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Silence

January 20, 2010 10:39 AM in reply to ilovebacon

Populist peasants? If you don't mind, I'd like to e-mail this post to a few thousand friends, along with the appropriate historical references to Stalin. He felt the same way about the 'peasants', just before he slaughtered a few million of them. Luckily, my family made it out in time.

Trust me. I know who and what you are. It won't happen here. Not in America.

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ilovebacon

January 20, 2010 10:56 AM in reply to Silence

Despite your Stalin allusions, peasants are still confused masses who don't know what's best for themselves. That's why they are obese, poor, angry, and fight for policies that hurt people like them. I have no respect for peasants--right or left.

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ajw93

January 20, 2010 10:06 AM

Just sent my senators (both) a message. 1) 60 votes are not necessary to do business, so get your head out of your butt about that. 2) You already passed the bill, so STFU and let the HoR do its business. 3) You represent ME and my fellow Virginians, you dumbass. We think HCR is pretty important stuff!

Of course, in a much less "blog-comment-y" way.

Sigh.

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ilovebacon

January 20, 2010 10:29 AM

Who the hell is this Webb? And why is he so adamant about seating Brown before the vote? Whose side is he on, any way?

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eztempo

January 20, 2010 11:02 AM

Senator Webb - whadda twit.

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General Zoddd

January 20, 2010 11:08 AM

That's the trouble with folks like ajw. They don't care what's in the bill they just want it passed. LOL! VA's government is going to invoke the 10th amendment to render the most odious points of the current HCR bill moot. States rights, baby! Soon the VA governor and senate/house members will be on Napolitano's terrorism watch list.

But again, PLEASE PASS HRC, Democrats! You will all be on the streets in the shortest possible time after you vote for it.

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boycottfaux

January 20, 2010 11:26 AM

I thought Webb was a warrior . .

Appears not . .

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syntheticzero

January 20, 2010 2:55 PM

I'm sorry guys, Webb is right. Ramming the bill through Congress now would lead to two things: a bad bill (the Senate bill is not very good on many fronts), and electoral disaster in November.

There's an obvious way out of this: negotiate with Snowe. She has said "Undeniably, we need health care reform." She said as recently as last week that her vote is still possible. Her main complaints against the legislation are not enough affordability credits for low-income people and tax credits for small business. I think those are negotiable points and might even improve the bill.

Pass it with a Republican vote (or two?) and we will have substantive reform AND be in a much better position in November. In fact, it's what we should have done in the first place, rather than cobble together 60 votes by giving a sweetheart deal to Ben Nelson.

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Tosh

June 6, 2010 5:57 AM

We won't hold our losses if we can't control the message. Republicans have managed to convince the nonthinking center, through sound bites, that the world started in Jan of '09, and everything is the Dems fault.

Just plain incompetence to lose in Massachusetts. And now we have jerks like Webb, with the ink on the ballots barely dry, abandoning one of the main principles that got them elected in the first place, pissing the base off more than they already are. You cannot win without your base.

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Health Care Comes To Screeching Halt - Sen. Webb: No HCR Votes Until Brown Seated

Christina Bellantoni | January 19, 2010, 9:49PM

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Health Care Comes To Screeching Halt - Sen. Webb: No HCR Votes Until Brown Seated

Christina Bellantoni | January 19, 2010, 9:49PM

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