TPMDC
Leading Health Care Group To Democrats: Get It Done. Now!
Share
Send to a friend!
After taking stock of this week's events, the reform group known as Health Care for America Now (HCAN) has a simple message for Democrats on health reform: Get it done. Now!
HCAN wants the House to implement what everyone's been calling Plan B. The groups is calling on House lawmakers to pass the Senate health care bill and tie it to a separate bill enacting key fixes. And they want it done quickly.
"We just had a steering committee meeting and it was just--'end the handwringing and get to work' was the theme of our meeting," HCAN's campaign director Richard Kirsch tells me.
Earlier today, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said that, for the moment, she doesn't have enough votes in her caucus to pass the Senate health care bill. And many members are saying that an easier way forward would be to cleave the House bill into parts and pass the popular elements--then send them to the Senate for separate votes.
"You can't do incremental reform because, for instance, you can't end pre-existing conditions with incremental reform," Kirsch said. "You've gotta do comprehensive reform."
(Ending the insurance industry practice of not insuring people with pre-existing conditions is a popular measure, but, in absence of separate reforms would create separate problems in the insurance market.)
Kirsch says he and his group now back the same plan that leadership, Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), and the major unions support: pass the Senate bill in the House, and link it to the passage of a separate bill, amending it with crucial fixes.
"They have to stop saying 'Oh, woe is me' and get it done," Kirsch said. "It's clear that what's going to pass now is what was going to pass before Tuesday, which is the Senate bill with some fixes."
"Now the question is, how do we do the same thing--the Senate bill with some fixes--but through a process other than the traditional 60-vote process in the Senate."
What's important, Kirsch added, is that they put together a package that's guaranteed to be passed by both houses.
"We haven't--our steering committee made the affirmative decision not to get too deep in the weeds in the process," Kirsch said. "It's got to be done in a way that's guaranteed to make sure that both pass ... They've got to make some process adjustments to pass the same thing they were going to pass anyway."
So how can the House get a hold of itself and put this health care bill to bed? Kirsch sends the following message.
"To progressives: understand that the Senate bill with fixes will be the major advance in social legislation since Social Security and Medicare, and it will enable the bill to be fixed more...instead of starting for scratch."
For Democrats worried about politics, they need to understand that the worst politics is to do nothing, and they will be blamed for that.The progressives should do it because it's the right thing, the conservative Democrats should do it because it's the right thing and the best thing for their political fortune, whether they understand it or not.
Comments (76) | Join the Conversation!
Leave a comment
Follow us!
Most Popular
TPM Stories Now Surging on Digg.com
TPM Top News
© 2010 TPM Media LLC. All Rights Reserved.
mcc
January 21, 2010 4:03 PM
THANK you.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 4:12 PM
Now, watch the usual suspects label HCAN (the most progressive advocates for HCR) as DLC corporate shills who never wanted healthcare in the first place--simply because they are facing reality!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
eratosthenes8
January 21, 2010 4:20 PM
Fat chance. The Democrats won't do it. They are running scared. And Nancy Pelosi, as capable as she is, will not be able to get 218 votes to pass the Senate bill without vigorous leadership and pressure from the White House.
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any leadership coming from the White House.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 4:26 PM in reply to eratosthenes8
You remind me of a fat girl who had a blind date. She tells all her friends "I know he's not going to call. He won't call. I don't believe he'll call" because she wants them to try and convince her otherwise.
Your profound neediness is on display. Stop looking for reassurance and grow a pair.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
eratosthenes8
January 21, 2010 4:30 PM in reply to FreeRider
I'm not holding out hope for the Democrats to finally do the right thing. I'm not fishing for reassurance.
I'm simply convinced that the party is completely dysfunctional and unable to govern.
And I'm not going to predict success when I have absolutely no confidence that the Democrats will be successful.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 4:33 PM in reply to eratosthenes8
If you were that convinced, you wouldn't post it every 10 minutes. You're fishing for reassurances. Fat girl. Blind date.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 4:42 PM in reply to FreeRider
here is a perfect example of your bullying and disgusting behavior.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 4:43 PM in reply to Indie Pro
Yes, you are indeed. I'm surprised you finally admitted it. Proves there's always hope.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
lousgirl84
January 21, 2010 5:36 PM in reply to Indie Pro
The truth hurts doesn't it IndiePro?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
bluebell
January 21, 2010 6:05 PM in reply to FreeRider
Are you 12 or 13?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 6:26 PM in reply to bluebell
Says the teenie bopper who claims to be a liberal but wants to vote for Sully (a conservative Republican) for President because he can drive the airplane real good!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
CT Voter
January 21, 2010 4:22 PM
For Democrats worried about politics, they need to understand that the worst politics is to do nothing, and they will be blamed for that.
I simply cannot understand why this needs to be pointed out to Democrats. Are they THAT out of touch? Or do they think people will just somehow forget if they screw this up?
It's bizarre enough that I'm wondering if today's SC decision re: campaign financing might have made Democrats less worried about the little voters, and more worried about corporations.
And then I realize I'm about to go crazy from all of this.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Moose49
January 21, 2010 4:30 PM in reply to CT Voter
No, you're not crazy. Unfortunately -- tragically -- I don't doubt that the SC decision is having precisely that impact.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
mcc
January 21, 2010 4:45 PM in reply to CT Voter
Are they THAT out of touch?
Evidence seems to indicate it's less that they're out of touch so much as they're just confused and scared.
Also what the hey, they only can be as "in touch" with their constituents as the constituents allow them to be. For the last four months probably all they've heard is people coming in screaming that they oppose the bill because of death panels and/or public option capitulation something something. Maybe it eventually had an effect.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Overreach THIS!
January 21, 2010 5:09 PM in reply to mcc
It did, and the insanity wasn't effectively refuted. If you let them call you names all day and all night every day, and don't fight back, some of it sticks. Apart from censuring Fox Propaganda (which was a good thing), we let 'em.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Overreach THIS!
January 21, 2010 5:26 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
Oh I should have added those on the left who called him names all along, too. They did their share.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
bluebell
January 21, 2010 6:07 PM in reply to CT Voter
Yeah, but they'll also be blamed by the Repubicans no matter what they do. So they should simply do the right thing. They won't.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 6:28 PM in reply to bluebell
You've been claiming that the right thing was to kill the bill. Funny how you start backpedaling when that becomes a real possibility. Punkass Mofo.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 4:26 PM
...major unions support: pass the Senate bill in the House, and link it to the passage of a separate bill, amending it with crucial fixes.
must be enacted together, or with binding rules that can not be broken. Get the recon bill together now.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 4:31 PM in reply to Indie Pro
You've spent months telling us how the entire bill should be killed. The reconciled bill will still have mandates and no public option. Isn't 45K dead a year preferable to mandates with no public option in your book?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 4:33 PM in reply to FreeRider
you're still an idiot. thanks for checking in.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 4:35 PM in reply to Indie Pro
But, but, but, you've said the bill should be killed for months now. What happened, Indie Pro? LMAO!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 4:41 PM in reply to FreeRider
amending it with crucial fixes.
guess what I'll be fighting for in that? An issue that reduces the deficit, offers choices, keeps the insurance companies honest etc. as well as all the other features I bring up.
while you continue to bully people, cuss, demean, and fight for nothing but whatever is offered you. You are a completely disgusting individual, yet, we all have to get along.
Don't get me wrong, that you don't understand: how to fight for imporant things, what liberals have won in the Senate bill & the House bill and continue to work for, or how the game is played is simply amusing. Your attitude around here is the disgusting part.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 4:47 PM in reply to Indie Pro
An obnoxious, bullying, disgusting firebagging troll who has spent the past 3 months here being an obnoxious, bullying, disgusting, firebagging troll complains about his treatment?
Well, isn't that special?!
Are you too upset to do your job--labeling anyone for HCR as a DLC corporate shill, trashing Obama, trying to kill healthcare, getting primary opponents for every Democrat you don't like?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 4:59 PM in reply to FreeRider
awwwww. are you blaming me for all your frustrations with the political process? Poor widdle baby. A little less projection from you would be great.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 5:02 PM in reply to Indie Pro
Ooooh, look who wiped his nose and stopped crying long enough to post some drivel here. How long will this bout of courage last--until the next time you get your own words thrown back in your firebagging face! Wuss.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 5:07 PM in reply to FreeRider
what words do you think you are throwing in my face?
If the deal is to pass the Senate bill and that alone, that's stupid, and it should be killed. That it can be fixed into something reasonable, yep, I still think it can.
That you think you've caught me at something doesn't make it true.
Your just a disgusting idiot.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 5:14 PM in reply to Indie Pro
>>Your just a disgusting idiot>>
Well, I'm an idiot who knows the difference between "you're" and "your." LOL!
The fixes that are being proposed are the fixes they have negotiated in the conference bill, genius. They won't include a public option and there will still be mandates. You have been saying a bill with a mandate and without a public option should be killed. Now you're all for a bill with mandates and no public option.
Stupid firebagging idiot!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 5:16 PM in reply to FreeRider
so was Obama, do you feel the same about him? Moron.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 5:22 PM in reply to Indie Pro
Obama said a bill with mandates and no public option should be killed? Obama said it's better to have no bill at all than to have this bill?
Me thinks the little girl has pissed herself because she got caught in a total contradiction and is telling a big fat lie on the president. tsk, tsk, tsk. No soup for you!!!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 5:27 PM in reply to FreeRider
oh please, Obama was for no mandates, campaigned on it, and the public option as well.
he was also against the tax he is now for on two different fronts, not raising under 250000, and the explixit tax as Mccain proposed.
Even if I was wrong, I'm not afraid to admit it. Everyone is wrong at one time or another.
But don't let that stop you. call me more names, liken me to little girls, or fat girls, or some other insult that points towards a deep misogyny.
your hatred is funny
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 5:30 PM in reply to Indie Pro
We're talking about the bill, snot nose, not what candidate Obama proposed.
President Obama has never said any bill produced by any committee in either house should be killed. YOU HAVE! That's because you don't know what's in it now or ever. You're a moron and a pussy!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 5:31 PM in reply to FreeRider
the Senate Bill should not be passed by the House as is.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 5:34 PM in reply to Indie Pro
A week ago, you said it should NEVER be passed. Total dumbass know-nothing/spew much!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
chimpale
January 21, 2010 5:17 PM in reply to FreeRider
Are you not able to simply disagree with someone and explain why without lashing out at them in an ad hominem tirade?
I realize I'm probably just inviting abuse by asking that, but I think you're getting pretty close to being treated as nothing more than a troll.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
gharlane
January 22, 2010 1:44 AM in reply to chimpale
Schmedley nailed it a while back:
Replying to an unusually stupid rightwing troll, Schmedley wrote:
(Part two was directed at said stupid conservative. I'm not quoting it to say anything about your post. It was context-dependent, and reflected the fact that said rightwing troll was doing the near-impossible: Making FreepRuder appear smart.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
mcc
January 21, 2010 4:46 PM in reply to FreeRider
I have a lot of trouble understanding Indie Pro sometimes. But you know what? If he agrees with you about what has to be done right now, why needle him because you disagreed with him last week? We have more important things to do right now than bicker with each other.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 4:51 PM in reply to mcc
Because he's an asshole who's been advocating for killing HCR outright! He and the MSNBC/HP firebaggers are as much to blame for this shit as anybody. They have helped divide the party and convinced many that this bill is a disaster and will only hurt the country--and they're surprised when we lose a Senate seat.
Screw them!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 4:54 PM in reply to FreeRider
bwahahahahahaha! You blame me? Hilarious.
Your hatred is now delicous. You are nuts.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 4:59 PM in reply to Indie Pro
I'd rather be nuts than a pussy like you. You spend all day throwing out insults and wet your pants and cry like a little girl when you get it back.
Can't stand the heat . . .
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 5:00 PM in reply to FreeRider
priceless
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Overreach THIS!
January 21, 2010 5:01 PM in reply to Indie Pro
He's totally right, though, priceless or not.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 5:04 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
about what?
that I cry like a little girl?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 4:55 PM in reply to FreeRider
oh, and I wasn't surprised you the dems lost a senate seat.
hell, the dems weren't either.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
mcc
January 21, 2010 5:08 PM in reply to FreeRider
Because he's an asshole
Who cares! Seriously, how does it help anyone or anything at this point to have a conversation about whether Indie Pro is an asshole?
He and the MSNBC/HP firebaggers are as much to blame for this shit as anybody
I totally agree! Who cares? How is assigning blame for the situation we're in going to get us out of it?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Overreach THIS!
January 21, 2010 5:13 PM in reply to mcc
It won't, you're right. Nor will the obverse, so often seen on here, "One thing I can truly say is that my group was not at fault."
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 5:15 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
You know who I blame. You!
If you guys would've defended Obama just a little harder, cussed and complained about liberals and progressives just a little more, if you guys would've begged everyone to keep their opinions to themselves on the internet just a little more, none of this would be happening. I.Blame.You.
You truly let Obama and the democrats down. Shame!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Overreach THIS!
January 21, 2010 5:24 PM in reply to Indie Pro
I don't care who you blame.
You are a blithering idiot. And unlike you (I AM *CERTAIN!*), I raised a finger to do some work in Massachusetts.
Funny how you are a big fan of Obama's now, but all you could do over many months and particularly when he needed you most was sit on your lazy ass and spew absurd criticisms about him. What happened? Crows came home to roost?
You pathetic nitwit.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 5:29 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
you're are correct, I did nothing to elect that person in Mass. Nether did a lot of people who actually live there. If only you'd have insulted more people though, you could've eeked out that win.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Overreach THIS!
January 21, 2010 5:36 PM in reply to Indie Pro
I *know* you did nothing! I already told you that, there was no need for your idiotic confirmation. That's the *only* thing you do, tear down Obama and do nothing. That's your contribution!
You thing this is news to us??
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
geofu54
January 21, 2010 7:26 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
**** Standing Ovation to OT! Standing Ovation to OT! ****
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 5:17 PM in reply to mcc
NOTHING we do or say here will change the situation. Therefore, I don't have to be nice or get along with firebaggers like IndiePro who have spent months cheering for defeat of healthcare because "it wasn't good enough."
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 5:20 PM in reply to FreeRider
NOTHING we do or say here will change the situation.
wait wait wait. I thought I was to blame. come on dance monkey boy. call me names. Jump up and down. Your cute when your whining and crying and complaining about me. dance!
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
FreeRider
January 21, 2010 5:27 PM in reply to Indie Pro
"Your cute when your whining and crying and complaining about me. dance!"
Still haven't figured out that you're/your thing, have you?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 5:29 PM in reply to FreeRider
nope
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Moose49
January 21, 2010 4:31 PM
Exactly what is needed now under the circumstances.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
January 21, 2010 4:34 PM
"must be enacted together, or with binding rules that can not be broken. Get the recon bill together now."
Appreciate the sentiment, but there's no such mechanism. The best they can do is get a commitment from Reid and Senate leadership to do the fixes through reconciliation. In fact, as a constitutional matter, I don't really see how they can even introduce the reconciliation bill in the Senate until after Obama signs the House-passed Senate bill.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Indie Pro
January 21, 2010 4:45 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
congress matters goes over how it is possible, and uses precedent. There was also a link from DKOS to the congress matters thing. May be tricky. may be impossible. But it has a better chance than simply passing the senate bill in the house.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
OhioGuy
January 21, 2010 4:52 PM in reply to Indie Pro
You could get a commitment from 50 Senators that they'd support adding key provisions through the budget reconcilation process. That's if Democratic Senators will actually man up and go on the record for this.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
anna am
January 21, 2010 4:45 PM
Too late.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Steaming Pile
January 21, 2010 4:48 PM
OK, I propose a test. Write up and pass a chunk of HCR in the House. Send the result to the Senate. See how far it flies. My guess is, it will go over about as well as the comprehensive bill did when they sent that over. That is, like a lead balloon.
Do we really need to actually do this experiment to prove this point? It's like proving that water is wet by holding a garden hose over your head and turning on the faucet. Completely unnecessary.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Overreach THIS!
January 21, 2010 5:05 PM in reply to Steaming Pile
I fear you may be right. This Scott Brown catastrophe may have solidified in people's minds the idea that Obama's health care is just lame and toxic. Time to return to old time American values, like Palin's.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Weeferdog
January 21, 2010 5:15 PM
NC Steve, I don't believe it matters in what order the main bill and reconciliation-bill-to-fix-it are passed. It only matters in what order the President signs them. Silly, but true, as far as I have seen. So the fix could actually be passed first, thereby assuring the House that they could go ahead and pass the Senate bill. Then (if this fantasy ever comes to pass given the utter gutlessness of the Democrats), Obama signs the main bill first, then the recon bill that changes it.
Weeferdog
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Campesino
January 21, 2010 5:39 PM
Too late!!
Also - Air America signing off the air!!!
This has certainly been a busy day!!
----------------------------------------
It is with the greatest regret, on behalf of our Board, that we must announce that Air America Media is ceasing its live programming operations as of this afternoon, and that the Company will file soon under Chapter 7 of the Bankruptcy Code to carry out an orderly winding-down of the business.
http://airamerica.com/
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
lousgirl84
January 21, 2010 6:36 PM in reply to Campesino
I am going to miss the ride home with Ron Reagan. Gee I wonder if the airamerica cruise is still a go?
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
Philv
January 21, 2010 5:58 PM
Here's a question, will HCAN pressure the Progressive Caucus? It would be nice to have some large organizational pressure in addition to angry individuals. Unions too. It's now or never.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
AnswerFrog
January 21, 2010 7:05 PM in reply to Philv
Amen.
We need PRESSURE. THREATS. Withholding of money. Traitors need to be pushed off the cliff in November.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
lousgirl84
January 21, 2010 6:35 PM
FreeRider is right on all counts. IndiePro is the voice of doom and gloom - and has been ever since he came here. Nothing pleases him = nothing is ever good enough - typical independent voter
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
OhioGuy
January 21, 2010 6:39 PM in reply to lousgirl84
Far from typical. Typical independent voters swing between the Dems and Repugs. Only on TPM boards is the argument seriously made that independents are really for either Dennis Kucinich or Ron Paul.
It's funny and at the same time scary how far from reality some of the characterizations here get.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
lousgirl84
January 21, 2010 6:52 PM
Well, most of the independent voters who claim to have voted for Obama have given up on him in less than a year. I believe they held their noses when they voted for him in the first place. Most independents I know, are republican lite and lean right but they made an exception in Obama's case because even they realized Bush had fucked the country up. However, less than a year and they have abandoned ship. Massachusetts is a perfect example. On the other hand, I know quite a few republicans who voted for Obama and it was the first time they ever voted for a democrat and they are still in his camp because they see their party has been hijacked.
That's my take on it.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
gharlane
January 22, 2010 2:04 AM in reply to lousgirl84
Most independents I know, are republican lite
And, therefore, all independents must be. Typical egocentric tweenie thinking. My world is the Whole World.
Meanwhile, in the real world the rest of us inhabit, as confirmed yet again in the Jan 14 Quinnipiac poll, those weird leftie firebagger things like the public option still enjoy OVERWHELMING support, and that support is FAR greater than support for the Senate bill. In the Quinnipiac poll, the PO was supported by 59% overall, 82% of Democrats, and 61% OF INDEPENDENTS. It was also supported by 85% of self-described liberals and 69% of self-described MODERATES.
Try finding a poll that shows that kind of support for the Senate bill. Ah, I know: you could poll lousgirl, FreeRider, mcc, NCSteve, and a few other assorted members of the Obama-can-do-no-wrong wing of the TPM commentariat. That should give you the number you're looking for.
But Quinnipiac polls the real world. Don't let that get in the way of your preconceived tweenie notions, however.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
mcc
January 21, 2010 6:53 PM
I just got an extremely interesting email from MoveOn that sounds a lot like what HCAN is saying.
Following this was a link to a poll.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
rb6
January 21, 2010 7:04 PM in reply to mcc
Okay, my party donations will be going to HCAN and Move-On until the Democrats listen and respond to their obvious common sense. Does anybody else find this overreaction by Dems to be a little surreal? It's like the still have PTSD from the Bush administration.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
OhioGuy
January 21, 2010 7:11 PM in reply to mcc
This is what I got from MoveOn today:
"But even with one less Democrat in the Senate, they've got more than enough votes to finish reform. Through a process called "budget reconciliation," they only need 51 votes to pass a bill, not 60.
As our ad will point out, this could be their chance to pass an even stronger bill, including the popular public option. With reconciliation, Democrats would no longer be beholden to conservatives like Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson."
In other words, we still want our pony.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?
mcc
January 21, 2010 7:20 PM in reply to OhioGuy
Checking, I actually received this email you mention, too.
Geez. Even MoveOn is going in multiple directions at once. :P
I think the other email I received-- the "we're thinking about organizing an event" email-- was not a mass email but some sort of a test poll sent to a random sampling of their email database. Due to some sort of mistake I am signed up for MoveOn's email blasts on two different accounts, and I received the "we're thinking..." email on only one of them. So I guess we should look at the "THIS COULD BE OUR CHANCE!" email as where they are now and the other email as a direction they're considering going in? Meh.
Reply | Flag Abuse
Are you sure this comment violates TPM's Terms of Service?