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The Democrats' Politics Problem: It's Not Just The Economy, Stupid!
Rep. John Boehner (R-OH) and Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA)
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As hard as you might try, you'll probably never forget the words "I actually voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it." That awkward phrase was supposed to explain why he'd voted against funding the Iraq war (Kerry wanted to pay for the effort by raising taxes on the wealthy--but Republicans didn't want to pay for it at all). But instead it haunted Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) for months until the day he lost the 2004 election.
Fast forward to 2009, when Republicans did much the same--voting against war funding under Obama after years of supporting it under Bush -- and yet they're poised for a landslide victory in the 2010 midterms. Why can't Democrats make stuff like this stick? That's a question with many answers. And with the economy in the pits, Democrats have done themselves few favors by not learning them.
"The Democrats have not done what they could do if they were willing and able to play political hardball to turn those issues into an electoral asset," says Congressional expert Norm Ornstein. "You have a large number of Republicans who are on the record as voting against ending preexisting conditions...extending insurance to children. You do have these votes on omnibus bills where [Republicans] voted against funding the troops."
Back in the day, Ornstein adds, "Republicans used votes on omnibus bills against Democrats" all the time.
This is a perennial problem for Democrats who, Ornstein says, find themselves on the opposite end of the governing spectrum from Republicans. Whereas Republicans don't really have a constructive agenda and "have much more of a focus on how you frame issues politically, Dems just aren't as good at that. They tend to think first about their governing agenda."
Going into the 2010 midterms, Democrats face political problems, most of which are rooted in the fact that the economy is still slumping and unemployment is sky high. But though Democrats have pursued an ambitious legislative agenda--and though they remain more popular than their Republican nemeses--they haven't been able to translate their policy initiatives into a political liability for their opponents. And that's allowed the Republicans to assume a mantle of populism even as they've stood in the way of a number of populist causes.
In 2003 and 2004, by contrast, Republicans approached the coming election with their eyes on politics. Perhaps to a fault. But that meant they would routinely force congressional Democrats to take difficult "wedge" votes--on symbolic issues like gay marriage and national security--and then use those votes against them.
The same phenomenon presented itself when Democrats were in the minority. The rules of the House of Representatives allow the minority to force contentious procedural votes. These "motions to recommit" can kill major legislation, and don't have to be germane to the issue being debated. So a war-funding bill can be sidelined because members aren't willing to cast an unrelated symbolic votes that might put them at odds with their base.
"Democrats had opportunities there, and the main opportunity was with the motion to recommit with instructions," Ornstein says of the Bush years. "Democrats did not regularly use that as a political vehicle."
(Both Republicans and Democrats in the House have become fairly disciplined, and don't often allow motions to recommit to derail important legislation.)
Part of the problem, Ornstein says, is that Democrats don't have a vast propaganda machine.
"When an issue emerges--how to pound away at it? You don't need to [conspire]...Republicans just kind of know how to do that," Ornstein says. "It becomes an echo chamber that once its out there for a bit, bleeds over to the rest of the press. If it doesn't, then those entities [Rush Limbaugh, etc.] pound away at the Times, the Post and the Sunday talk shows for ignoring a big story."
That echo chamber goes hand in glove with a separate advantage Republicans have: a willingness that Democrats lack to tell huge whoppers about their opponents.
"Republicans are wiling to take rhetoric that goes way beyond reality--continuing to talk about the health care plan as a government takeover. It doesn't matter much if you can take the fact and say it's not true." Once it's out there, it's out for good.
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Buckeye Terrorist Fist Jab Nation
February 3, 2010 12:38 PM
Kerry's statement was actually recorded on video.
There's no such gem with any Repub that I'm aware of, and besides, Keery was running for President.
Making this type of charge stick would take individaul commercials against each Repub hypocrite.
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garp
February 3, 2010 1:12 PM in reply to Buckeye Terrorist Fist Jab Nation
Actually, it seems more simple to me. The key to why the Republicans make such things stick is repetition. The Dem's seem to have a problem creating and staying on message, even when there is ample fodder for it from the right.
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Andreams
February 3, 2010 2:19 PM in reply to garp
Great comment! It has infuriated me to see rethugs all repeating the same few talking points while dems wander all over the place. If a lie is said enough, it becomes truth to a lot of people.
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Richardxx
February 3, 2010 4:57 PM in reply to Buckeye Terrorist Fist Jab Nation
Just have a reporter ask the right question at a press conference. Then keep the video and use it. Every issue the Republicans run on is rife with questions they can't answer.
Why wait for someone else to create the ammunition? Plan it and create it. That's what the Repubs do.
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Acharn
February 4, 2010 5:09 AM in reply to Richardxx
But where are you going to find reporters willing to do that? Most "journalists" who work for the MSM wouldn't dare ask an actual question. The most you can bet them to ask is for a repetition of what's already been said. Part of the problem is that the Right started decades ago building their own "think tanks" and acquiring broadcast studios and newspapers. Now they own all the major media and have their own phony "experts" reinforcing their talking points.
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Richardxx
February 4, 2010 11:36 AM in reply to Acharn
Do what politicians do. Choose favorable reporters and reward them with career-enhancing access. They'll return the favor.
Keep track of every reporter on the beat. Reward the good ones and punish the bad ones. Ignore the bleats from the conservatives because they do exactly that and they do it because it works. And it's not undemocratic. It is nothing more than democratic politics.
A disciplined political party will drive the media. This ridiculous idea that the media drives the politics is a fantasy being pushed by the conservatives who don't practice it themselves. They push it because they have convinced the disorganized and undisciplined Democrats the media rules, so the Democrats act as weak as Harry Reid.
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rmwarnick
February 3, 2010 6:26 PM in reply to Buckeye Terrorist Fist Jab Nation
I read that the GOP planted a questioner at every Kerry appearance until they got him to say that. Then they never let up criticizing him. Why can't Democrats do the same to Republican candidates? Almost every one is a "macaca moment" waiting to happen.
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felix
February 3, 2010 12:40 PM
Sure, that's always been the Democrats' problem - overestimating the intelligence of the American people (especially these so-called "independents"). Republicans knows people are dimwits and are therefore susceptible to the most egregious lies.
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shooter242
February 3, 2010 1:26 PM in reply to felix
That's right Felix, Americans are just retarded.
Nice commentary.
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JohnW1141
February 3, 2010 1:47 PM in reply to shooter242
shooter,
read the results of the Kos/Research2000 poll on what Republicans believe, then look up how many Americans still believe Saddam was connected to 9/11, then read what, then look ho what H L Mencken said about the public. Then come back and tell me about the political sophistication of the American public.
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rwc
February 3, 2010 3:29 PM in reply to JohnW1141
Another problem is this: The GOP base will gladly follow along with whatever the GOP lie or distortion of the day is. When the Dems try demagoguing, its base, which is generally more educated and skeptical, doesn't buy it. A huge part of Democratic voters are good-government, stop-the-partisanship types, not ideologues, and they are always turned off by political gamemanship by their party. It's just a built-in advantage the GOP has.
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TheRealFish
February 3, 2010 6:15 PM in reply to rwc
Roger that. The absolute most successful repressive/oppressive governments are always conservative in nature. Sure, folks considered the Communism under Stalin as "leftist" because of the socialistic rhetoric used by the oligarchs who controlled the masses, but the whole concept of dictatorship or oligarchy is uber-conservative.
John Dean wrote a remarkable book outlining many exhaustive scientific studies on the human phenomenon, aptly titled "Conservatives Without Conscience."
Real democracy is messy and not at all orderly. You only get the type of regimentation (think of the old black and white movies of Hitler's jackbooted throngs marching in precision lockstep for a background visual here) with conservative authoritarians in charge and authoritarian followers following, and driven by unleashed emotion unfettered by logic or analysis.
There you have today's Republican and Tea Bagger movements. They're totally good at acting like a single organism or hive mind, and the corporate mass media is part of that hive mind. Democrats also can't get traction because the corporate mass media won't echo the revealed facts, while they spend countless hours repeating, and re-repeating the latest memes of the far right.
So, yes indeedy kids. It's a catastrophuk war we've got on our hands and, unless we mobilize in some fashion similar to those jack-booted throngs, they could take over once more.
The last tattered remnants of our Constitution and democracy literally hang in the balance over this little fight. It won't take very much more, if they regain any control, to nail the coffin shut on the old democracy and encase it in a vault of the new corporatocracy.
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shooter242
February 3, 2010 5:57 PM in reply to JohnW1141
Right. If you believe that poll, you'll believe in global warming. The latter is now shown to be fraud and the poll will as well. It seems the left are the gullible ones with limited mental skills.
Interestingly, Research 2000 called the race for Coakley by a large margin two days before Brown won by 5.
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tres
February 3, 2010 8:09 PM in reply to shooter242
I always find the attitude of the right in regards to global warming to be interesting.
Although there is a consensus among experts that global warming is real, let's just take a rational look at it. Pragmatically speaking, it's somewhat like Pascal's wager: If global warming does not exist, what harm is there in converting our current infrastructure -- that relies almost entirely on a single limited resource coming from a foreign entity -- to one that is more robust, economical, renewable, and can be produced right here at home.
Of course, logic doesn't come into play; every redneck asshat thinks they know about climate change than the people who have literally dedicated their lives to it.
And they know more 'cuz rush or glen said so.
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ds101
March 2, 2010 2:40 AM in reply to tres
Rhetorically I like your Pascal's wager analogy.
Truthfully, they aren't really analogous (unless you
agree with me that Pascal was ignoring what you
sacrifice if you accept his advice - but the, I'm
an atheist).
This TED conference video makes the same point...
http://www.ted.com/talks/bjorn_lomborg_sets_global_priorities.html
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fsudirectory
February 3, 2010 2:05 PM in reply to shooter242
If it wasn't the case, then how do Republicans get away with making up stuff you can only craft when stoned or drunk and have it become common knowledge amongst their base?
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converse
February 3, 2010 2:27 PM in reply to shooter242
Now you're just gonna hafta apologize for using the r-word. Call Rahm, he'll help ya through it.
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kernel
February 4, 2010 10:44 AM in reply to shooter242
Well, half population is of below-average intelligence. Win that demographic group and you've won the contest.
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JerseyCurmudgeon
February 3, 2010 2:09 PM in reply to felix
Unpleasant as it is, Felix is right. Many of us, maybe all of us, know too many of our fellow citizens who believe whatever false facts conform to their beliefs. The Right has always had an easy time leveraging the public's habit of dismissing any evidence that counters their beliefs, and even regarding it, and those who present it, with outright hostility. It's not for nothing that Fox News can legitimately claim to the the most trusted source for news.
We will never be able to counter false facts with real facts until we learn how to package and deliver information better than the Right has done.
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DeeAmbro
February 3, 2010 2:30 PM in reply to JerseyCurmudgeon
It would help to have a megaphone like Rush and Fake News. An entire media empire dedicated to bringing down your opposition. I've often wondered though, who owns whom? Do the republicans tell Fake News what to say or is it the other way around? Anyways, their BS then filters down to the 1000 right wing hate radio hosts who pound on it day in and day out. And then, yes, through repetition it becomes reality. An alternate reality but that's irrelevant in the end. We must start fighting fire with fire. Hire someone to come up with some catchy phrases! Geez, there's plenty of ammunition. Then everybody keep repeating them over and over. Easy.
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expat46
February 3, 2010 3:20 PM in reply to DeeAmbro
Cosign.
Is there a left leaning equivalent to Frank Luntz? Shouldn't the DNC be blasting out talking point memo's?
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Megan97401
February 3, 2010 8:11 PM in reply to felix
Yep, that pretty much sums it up.
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CVille Dem
February 3, 2010 12:50 PM
Demint's "waterloo" statement is pretty damning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHV4nDS501Y
He said he didn't mean what he said. End of controversy.
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political_observer
February 3, 2010 12:51 PM
I'll tell you one reason Brian, it's because we don't have your conservative counterparts, writing on endlessly about divisions in the republican party all the time. It's hard to present the narrative you described when people like you are always making hay out of crappy molehills. They are always on the defensive, even from people on their side.
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felix
February 3, 2010 1:06 PM in reply to political_observer
While it's not Brian's job to serve as stenographer to Democratic talking points or promote party unity, I do think TPM sometimes teeters on the edge of becoming Concern Troll Central.
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dtOZONE
February 3, 2010 1:12 PM in reply to felix
Somebody has to do it. The MSM is doing it for the Republicans.
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twirling fartknocker
February 3, 2010 2:23 PM in reply to political_observer
I'll second (or third) that...
he writes that like it's established fact. and what exactly constitutes a landslide? taking control of both houses of congress? merely picking up some extra seats? do tell
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Dorn76
February 3, 2010 12:55 PM
Lack of message discipline, because Dems aren't sheep.
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Dorn76
February 3, 2010 12:57 PM in reply to Dorn76
This is a good thing of course, but come campaign season, it bites us in the ass.
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Lucieann
February 3, 2010 12:58 PM
It would be a sad in in this country if the GOPers "win in a landslide". I don't think that is going to happen, but if it does, is says a lot of not very nice things about this country. WE have few clear thinkers, and reasonable people left in this country.......For a country like this one to hold the lying misleading propaganda up as if it were Gospel.....now I know how the people of Germany were before the Nazis took over......!
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dtOZONE
February 3, 2010 1:02 PM
The lack of a propaganda machine is the real issue. Democrats always see Republicans say stupid shit and then go "no one is going to believe this crap" and laugh at them, only to be left speechless when the American people buy their crap. We've tried to create a propaganda machine with Air America and MSNBC prime time, but it didn't take.
I don't have an answer about how to beat that, I don't think there is one. We're just screwed on this.
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twirling fartknocker
February 3, 2010 2:27 PM in reply to dtOZONE
I've come to believe part of the problem with the propaganda is that roughly half of all people have IQs under 100. Repugs are better at targeting those folks with crude appeals to racism, greed, fear of god, whatever.
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DeeAmbro
February 3, 2010 2:41 PM in reply to twirling fartknocker
Yes, they appeal to the worst rather than the best in people. That doesn't mean we have to do the same but their 24/7 repetition of 2/3 word phrases is the key to their success. We must, MUST, start doing the same. Having verbose, inconsistent messages is our achilles heel. That has to change. Who's in charge?
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Richardxx
February 3, 2010 5:16 PM in reply to dtOZONE
The Democrats need a national organization that acquires and develops issues to run on and puts out public information and education for those issues. Then Democratic candidates can step in and pick up canned and publicly tested positions supported by public education on a lot of things in their platforms. It would be sort of a la cart, with a few local issues together with many party-provided issues. That would among other things lower the cost of running for Congress.
Part of the problem today is that the conservatives and evangelicals have been doing exactly this for over 30 years, so when a candidate takes a position the voters already understand most of it. The sound bytes are a short-hand for more complicated issues.
That would require a more disciplined national Democratic party, but how many times will Democrats get beat by a disciplined Republican party running on soundbytes and yet unable to govern?
Politics is a form of war without much violence. History has shown that a disciplined, trained and well-led army will almost always defeat a militia or a mob. The Republicans have achieved a disciplined party on the national level first. The Democrats will keep getting defeated unless they match the Republican preparation and discipline. That's especially true now that so much of the national media either is officially owned by the Republicans or is trained to respect their talking points.
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Why oh why
February 3, 2010 1:06 PM
It's the Senate and Obama, stupid.
I don't see how Pelosi is somehow to blame for the Democratic Party problems: she has been passing good bills all year only to see them die in the House of Lords, or watered down by the White House secret deals with lobbyists.
But sure, a few meaningless votes purely for campaign ads could save Democrats: it worked so well for the GOP in 2006!
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jim43
February 3, 2010 1:08 PM
Democrats don't deserve to have majority if they cannot pass single-payer health reform this year.
http://www.sunstateactivist.org/ssablog
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expat46
February 3, 2010 3:54 PM in reply to jim43
Another problem is the Dem's are constantly taking fire from their left. The GOP stands shoulder to shoulder to block HCR using a system that was designed to facilitate compromise. We respond with statements like 'Democrats deserve to lose because we didn't get exactly what we wanted.'
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Richardxx
February 3, 2010 5:25 PM in reply to jim43
Single payer is a long-term goal. First we need something close to universal coverage, community insurance pools and reform of the methods insurance companies use to refuse to pay benefits or overcharge for what should be insurance (where everyone covered pays to cover those who get sick or injured.) The Senate bill still has all of those things in it.
The problem right now is that the house has to pass the senate bill, but the senate won't guarantee they will pass it when it gets back to them. That puts the house members in a bad position when the senate screws them that way.
After something gets passed, it will take a decade or more of tweaking to get it right. Towards the end that is going to be single payer or something very close to it.
So quit bitching and support the poor half-loaf we can get right now.
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Signalman
February 3, 2010 5:44 PM in reply to Richardxx
Word.
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jana47
February 3, 2010 1:16 PM
So this writers recommendation to Dems "LIE LIKE REPUBLICANS"
Perhaps the Dems are not FIGHTERS and need to be but on the issues
One key issue the President talked about today is the SIGNIFICANT number OF NOMINEES CURRENTLY BLOCKED BY REPUBLICANS TODAY
Susan Collins is screaming about National Security and the Dems don't care about our Safety at the Airport yet
She failed to disclosed that the Nomination for the HEAD OF AIRPORT SECURITY (TSA) WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN IN CHARGE FOR MONTHS BEFORE THE CHRISTMAS INCIDENT
HAS BEEN HELD UP BY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR MONTHS SO MUCH SO THAT THE NOMINEE JUST LAST WEEK WITH DREW HIS NOMINATION BECAUSE OF REPUBLICAN GAMES
CNN HIRED A REPUBLICAN WHO WORKED FOR BUSH FRAN SOMETHING SHE ACTUALLY CAME ON TV AND SAID
"THEIR TSA NOMINEE IS IN TROUBLE HE'S A LIAR"
ANDERSON COOPER CUT HER OFF AND ACTED LIKE HE DIDN'T HEAR HER ACCUSATION, AND NOT ONE MEDIA CAUGHT CNN'S HORRIBLE LACK OF INTERGIRY THAT NIGHT
Republicans blast away at the President every day for being soft on terror yet they REFUSED TO LET THE CONGRESS/SENATE VOTE FOR THE NOMINATION IN AN UP OR DOWN VOTE
Here's another example
In light of the underwear bomb, on Politico.com by Glenn Trush is Will Chaffetz amendment haunt House? where libertarian conservatives and some liberals voted against the use of full body scan airport imaging in a TSA appropriations bill. It died in the Senate without coming to a vote.
Back in early June, Utah Republican Rep. Jason Chaffetz inserted a little-noticed, widely popular amendment into the House's massive Homeland Security appropriations bill barring the use of full-body image scans as "primary" screening tools at airports.
The amendment, which died in the Senate, passed on a bipartisan 310-to-118 vote, with conservative libertarians joining liberals, all decrying the scans as a major invasion of privacy. The amendment was backed by a nearly irresistible coalition of interest groups, ranging from the American Civil Liberties Union to the National Rifle Association.
It would also have given passengers the option of getting a pat-down — which might have also detected the Christmas bomb — while banning the storage and copying of the images, which show a virtual picture of a person's naked body.
Vote & bill See HR 2200, § 215 (June 4, 2009):
This is the guy who complained to the President during the Republican Q&A what a Hypocrit!
Currently there are significant NOMINEES BLOCKED BY THE REPUBLICANS yET THEY ARE ON TV EVERYDAY BLASTING THE INABILITY OF SOME DEPARTMENT TO FUNCTION
EXPOSURE, EXPOSURE EXPOSURE IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS AMERICA MUST SEE AND KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING VS. WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO STOP THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT AND BRING IT TO A SCREECHING HALT
DEMS MUST USE THEIR MAJORITY IT'S CALL RECONCILLATION AND STOP BEING AFRAID AND RUNNING FOR COVER TO GET RE-ELECTED, THOSE BLUE DOG DEMS\\ PARTICULARLY
JUST DO YOUR JOB WE WILL NOT FORGIVE THE DEMS THEY HAVE THE MAJORITY AND WILL NOT BE LET OFF THE HOOK
WE NEED RESULTS, HEALTHCARE, JOBS, CLEAN AIR, ETC. DO IT NOW!
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shooter242
February 3, 2010 1:21 PM
LOL. Do you people EVER listen to yourselves? Democrats in the Senate passed the war authorizations, and then after the insurgency started, did everything, everywhere, to bash Bush and our presence in Iraq. For year, after year, after year.
And NOW, you want money for more war? Do you not see the absurdity of becoming the war party two minutes after the election?
After the nation desired an end to war?
You got exactly what you wanted from people and now are surprised that the country sees you're opportunistic sociopaths?
Duh.
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worthy9
February 3, 2010 1:42 PM in reply to shooter242
Well, when we had the WH, CIA and British government all screaming about how Iraq had WMDs and you'd be tarred as anti-American in the media if you objected to any of this it's understandable that they would authorize the funding. It's not an excuse for what they did, not for me anyway, but let's insert some context to be fair. Only after it became readily apparent that the country and the world had been lied to and we went to war under false pretenses did Democrats change their minds, though millions of true liberals the world over had been protesting for years.
Concerning "becoming the war party two minutes after the election," I'm pretty sure the D's have been for the Afghan war since its inception. Iraq is not Afghanistan not matter how much conservatives try to link the two. The nuance of Democrats' positions can be challenging for the conservative, black-and-white, all-or-nothing worldview.
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shooter242
February 3, 2010 5:51 PM in reply to worthy9
Sorry, but every argument for leaving Iraq applies to Afghanistan.
As for the rush to war, you can blame Clinton. He declared war on Iraq and propagandized that so well, a WaPo survey two days after 9/11 had about 80% of respondents blame Saddam for it.
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worthy9
February 3, 2010 8:00 PM in reply to shooter242
Actually, the case of Iraq is different from the case of Afghanistan in key areas. You're correct in that there are overlapping reasons for pulling out (like the fact that they're both expensive, long-term commitments) but there are other, significant factors that come into play.
First and foremost is the fact that we went into Afghanistan under factual premises and with the support of the public and the international community. It was and is a just war against a state that aided and abetted those who committed atrocities on our soil. With the exception of public support, Iraq is the exact opposite.
The next difference is that, in Iraq, their new military is now pretty well trained and their government stable enough to handle themselves. There is no such surety in Afghanistan.
Last, while we now know Iraq posed no meaningful threat to the country, we absolutely know Al-Qaeda does. The attempted bombing in NYC and the Christmas Day bombing attempt illustrates clearly the threat they pose. Allowing Al-Qaeda to reinfect and fester in the caves that aerate the jagged Afghan landscape will no doubt enable them to redouble their efforts with increased training capacity.
Again, the differences here are significant and explain the dichotomy in the positions Democrats take between Iraq and Afghanistan.
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jimbomoron
February 3, 2010 1:23 PM
Brian,
I think Josh's argument that Speaker Pelosi should have put Republicans on record opposing some of the minor provisions is a canard. Think about where we would be right now if Speaker Pelosi had just passed bills (1) eliminating annual and lifetime limits (2) allowing children to remain on the parents' policy until age 26 (3) prohibiting recissions except in cases of fraud (4) prohibiting insurers from writing pre-existing clauses on children's insurance policies and (5) ending the anti-trust exemption. Well, first of all, 1-3 has strong bipartisan support as even Georgia Republicans have proposed these items. 4 won't do very much -- if anything -- as insurance companies would still be allowed to price for those pre-existing conditions. 5 wouldn't do much, either. And right now Joe Lieberman, Ben Nelson, Evan Bayh, et. al. would just be saying how we should just accept all those minor things the House passed, pat our packs, miss an opportunity to insure 31 million Americans uninsured who would be insured with the Senate bill, and move on.
So as an actuary, I must respectfully disagree with Josh on this one.
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Richardxx
February 3, 2010 5:32 PM in reply to jimbomoron
The Republican Party will apply party discipline and vote as a block against every one of those issues. It doesn't matter what the polls say. It's to their political advantage to defeat every Democratic initiative.
This isn't actuarial science. It's political science. The national Republican Party has become tightly disciplined and the Democrats have not. They can win on their discipline. Winning is what matters, not governance.
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Ben Alpers
February 3, 2010 1:24 PM
The notion that Democrats have a governing agenda but no messaging, while Republicans have messaging but no governing agenda needs to be reconsidered.
I think the last year suggests that the Democrats have neither messaging nor a governing agenda (though various groups within their big, ineffectual tent have governing agendas that can't be passed because they're opposed by a bipartisan majority in the Senate).
The Democrats certainly need to improve their messaging. But anyone who's followed the politics of HCR....or climate change, immigration reform, card check, or any number of other issues should understand that the Democratic Party has no more of a governing agenda than the GOP does.
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converse
February 3, 2010 1:30 PM
Shorter: Democrats aren't as good at lieing and deception as Republicans.
Gee, maybe that's one of the reason I vote for them.
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Max Thrax
February 3, 2010 2:27 PM in reply to converse
What's infuriating is that the Dems don't have to lie. The facts are on their side for the most part. They're just preternaturally frightened pussies. The only good news is that Reid is likely gone in the fall and that's addition by subtraction. It's gotten to the point that the only hope progressives have is to elect Green Partiers and hope that the chips fall so that their votes are needed and so that they can play the role that Snowe and Collins have recently.
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Richardxx
February 3, 2010 5:38 PM in reply to Max Thrax
You're right. The Dems don't have to lie. They have the facts and the science behind what they are trying to do.
Nor are the Democrats any more frightened than the Republicans. It's just that every Democrat is left to fight on his own as part of a non-organized rabble. They are up against a highly organized political machine.
Individuals in a mob facing an organized force will often be uncertain and appear wishy-washy. It's a symptom of the absence of an organized and disciplined party to support the individuals.
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lousgirl84
February 3, 2010 4:08 PM in reply to converse
Me too.
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jana47
February 3, 2010 1:36 PM
Converse, wonderful DITTO!
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worthy9
February 3, 2010 1:45 PM
I don't believe the article is suggesting Democrats should lie like Republicans. The paragraph was just to point out that it's a problem for us, not that we should adopt the practice.
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Darrius
February 3, 2010 2:02 PM
There are a couple of reasons.
1. Racism gives Republicans a floor beneath which they can not fall. These people still haven't forgiven Democrats for passing the Civil Rights Act. Any lie that Republicans tell about Democrats will give these people a permission slip to feel the way they want to feel anyway.
2. Democrats are not disciplined and Republicans are disciplined. Democrats always argue their position with each other. But when they votes have been counted Democrats don't want to fall in line for the good of the team. Republicans always fall in line every single time.
2a. Republican-leaning media outlets always stay on message. Democratic-leaning media outlets spend half the time attacking fellow Democrats from the left.
3. Republicans spend most of their time politicking and very little time trying to govern, even when they have power; Democrats spend most of their time trying to govern and very little time politicking, even when they are out of power.
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jah627
February 3, 2010 2:05 PM
When the Executive branch is busy flogging a dead bi-partisan horse, "political hardball" becomes exceedingly difficult. You can't point an accusing finger at your opponent if you hope to get his or her cooperation on a future issue. Whether that hope is (i) rational or (ii) delusional is a topic for another day...
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jsdc007
February 3, 2010 2:21 PM
What good is Rahm Emmanuel if he can't toss a few exaggerated and unfounded accusations against the GOP?
Seriously. The GOP has taken the debate into the sewer, and you have to get into the sewer to fight them.
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DeeAmbro
February 3, 2010 2:23 PM
The solution seems obvious to me. Hire a Frank Luntz type...minus the toupee...and come up with some two and three word phrases. Then repeat them over and over and over again. Remember "culture of corruption"? That was the one and only 3 worder I can remember dems repeating 24/7. It's not brain surgery!
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Max Thrax
February 3, 2010 2:31 PM in reply to DeeAmbro
Frank Lutz type? A five year old child could figure this stuff out it's so damn obvious. It's not that they can't figure it out, it's that they are either politically incompetent or they really favor the conservative position but only pay lip service to the progressive position to get elected, something I strongly suspect. There aren't a whole lot of jobs for ex-Congress members who rocked the boat out there in Corporate America.
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ericf
February 3, 2010 3:23 PM in reply to Max Thrax
That doesn't explain the liberals/progressives who fight like hell and take political risks for principle. Failure is not always bad intentions. My theory is people on the left side of the political spectrum think of framing and messaging as inherently dishonest concepts, fooled by how the Republicans use these things to spread lies. The truth is tougher because you can't just look at what will sell and sell it, but take what is and try to figure out how to explain it. It still has to be done however. Democrats use jargon and assume they're understood by the less-engaged people who pay little attention outside of campaign season. However, I recently read, sorry, I don't have the source handy, that only 25% of the public has a clue what a filibuster is. Nobody understood "public option" or "single-payer". I'm guessing few people can explain "cap and trade".
I'm not suggesting it's always easy to make things easily understandable, but it is necessary, and it's not dishonest if you're telling the truth.
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expat46
February 3, 2010 4:06 PM in reply to ericf
Here's a tip: When your crafting your talking points to help drive your message home avoid phrases like "motion to recommit".
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artappraiser
February 3, 2010 2:36 PM
And media entities like TPM are glad to help out with feeding the buzz by covering right wingers's statements and activities ad nauseum. Because doing that draws lots of reactive readers who prefer playing the role of underdogs fighting back at the crazies rather than being in the role of framing the arguments, unwittingly doing exactly what the crazies want by feeding the buzz that the crazies are trying to get. Democratic policy issues, on the other hand, are considered boring "spinach":
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/162969.php
A suggestion: interview Ornstein about about TPM editorial policy in a private meeting with full staff, after he has had the opportunity to review a full month of your coverage.
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Richardxx
February 3, 2010 5:44 PM in reply to artappraiser
Ornstein? Norm Ornstein? The guy based in the American Enterprise Institute?
I don't care what his history is. I wouldn't trust anyone based in that nest of vipers and other wingnuts.
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artappraiser
February 3, 2010 6:30 PM in reply to Richardxx
Well, complain to Brian Beutler & TPM, as the post you are commenting on is basically an interview with "Congressional expert Norm Ornstein."
I was basically responding to this in Beutler's article:
"When an issue emerges--how to pound away at it? You don't need to [conspire]...Republicans just kind of know how to do that," Ornstein says. "It becomes an echo chamber that once its out there for a bit, bleeds over to the rest of the press."
Beutler basically presents the article as agreeing with Ornstein, and I say, if he does, he should realize he's part of the problem, because his media vehicle constantly helps the GOP do that. Who is TPM lecturing? Physician, heal thyself; stop feeding the GOP machine by constantly writing articles on every little antic they produce for the political junkies' attention and reaction.
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Richardxx
February 3, 2010 7:37 PM in reply to artappraiser
I read what you wrote as suggesting that the Democrats get Ornstein as a consultant. The job you describe would normally be a paid gig. Sorry if I misinterpreted what you wrote.
There's lots of highly qualified political scientists who are not contaminated by association with AEI.
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Michael A
February 3, 2010 2:56 PM
Yep, the dems need a new marketing machine. Big time.
I disagree on the headline though. Its jobs, jobs, jobs and the economy, economy, economy. That's all people care about right now and the dems better get on the ball. It is looking like a massacre in November. The dynamic has to change or they may lose both houses at this rate and then where will we be?
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DugFmJamul
February 3, 2010 4:18 PM
Come clean people, the Democratic Party is in chaos because it has adopted too many "Progressive Principles" and the American People have wised up to the scam...and the scam is Progressivism equals "genuine socialism" and genuine socialism is unconstitutional because it promotes limitless government not limited government as the Constitution outlines, so the American People are rejecting the Democratic Party along with Obama...its that simple!
The Democratic Party will be a viable party again when it adopts more Constitutional Principles than the Republican Party until that day...
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expat46
February 3, 2010 5:43 PM in reply to DugFmJamul
Oh great. Captain American makes an appearance to give us another teabag tinted lesson in constitutional law.
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Signalman
February 3, 2010 5:48 PM in reply to DugFmJamul
Non gratum anum rodentum.
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Powkat
February 3, 2010 5:01 PM
Extra Omnes, Duggie et amicos.
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RhodaA
February 3, 2010 5:04 PM
"IT'S THE MEDIA, STUPID"
A Current Example:
Yesterday it was widely reported that:
"The Obama administration's top intelligence officials on Tuesday described it as "certain" that al-Qaeda or its allies will try to attack the United States in the next six months, and they called for new flexibility in how U.S. officials detain and question terrorist suspects."
However, what is not being reported is that GOP senators have placed a hold on top national security personnel, and are thus endangering national security.
· The undersecretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness, the No. 3 job at the Pentagon.
. The assistant secretary of State for Intelligence and Research, the head of State’s intelligence operation.
· The undersecretary of Homeland Security for Intelligence and Analysis.
· The U.S. representative to the Conference on Disarmament, who is tasked with promoting the control of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons.
Both Senators Harry Reid and Dianee Feinstein spoke about this on the Senate Floor yesterday.
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AnswerFrog
February 3, 2010 5:10 PM
This is a good commentary. GOP is better at repeating talking points and drivign the narrative. Dems need to get better at it.
Dems need to be a little more hardball ,and do a better job of getting their message out there.
It's not enough to be right, you have to say you are right, again and again, and as loudly as possibly.
AND you have to point to the other guy and say he's wrong. Not only did we vote to save jobs, but that guy is a job killer and vioted to kill jobs. Creating little labels, like "job killers" for he GOP, for instance, or "Party of No" etc. is also good. Easy to remember and repeat and stick with the voters.
Obama and the Dems in general still think that being right is enough, and that voters will give you credit for doign the right thing. Unfortunately, that's a fantasy. Hammer the message home, take credit where it is due, and make the other guy own their bad ideas.
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Michael A
February 3, 2010 5:13 PM in reply to AnswerFrog
Agree. Only dispute is that dems should take credit where it isn't due either. Lie, lie, lie. Distort, Distort, Distort and soundbite, soundbite, soundbite. That's what they need to do.
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AnswerFrog
February 3, 2010 5:31 PM in reply to Michael A
They don't even need to go there. They'd have plenty to work with if they just sold the public on their actual accomplishments and merits.
And the GOP has been bad enough that merely making them own their misdeeds is a huge laundry list of stuff.
We're not at the point where they have to lie. The truth is on their side. It's just the media isn't. So yes, soundbite, soundbite, etc.
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jthdane
February 3, 2010 5:35 PM
Ronald Reagan developed and enforced the Republicans' 11th Commandment: "Do not speak ill of other Republicans." The Democrats last year seem to have found, perhaps under mandate from Mr. Bipartisanship in the White House, the 12th Commandment: "Do not speak ill of Republicans." While Christ righly urged us to turn the other cheek as a good moral stance, he wasn't running for office.
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icdedppl
February 3, 2010 7:43 PM
Wow, a lot of self-pity going on here. What the Dems are lacking is leadership, I mean come on...they had a super majority with a Democratic president and still can't pass a bill. That's not the Republicans fault; it's a perfect example of poor leadership. Obama is a passive leader, he relies heavily on the people he has surrounded himself with and unfortunately he has a poor record of picking advisors and "friends". He completely turned healthcare over to Pelosi and Reid, that alone is a reflection on Obama's judgement. Look within to find your enemies folks, and quite blaming your ills on "racists", "stupid people", "rednecks", and everyone else.
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social nature
February 3, 2010 9:46 PM
The Democrats needed to think big. They didn't.
They needed to act boldly. They haven't.
They needed to enforce discipline. They can't or won't.
The most recent Defense budget is what, $700,000,000,000+?
And they prattle about spending freezes, oy.
The states are $350 billion in the red. Cuts in education, senior care, child care, parks, you name it. Where's the massive Wall Street-style bailout for the middle class and working poor? Where's the federal "backstop" for the least of us?
No, Democrats are only incrementally better and right now that isn't nearly enough.
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