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From Holding Out To Whipping Health Care -- How Dennis Kucinich Is Helping Dems Pass Reform
Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)
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A few hours after Rep. Dennis Kucinich switched his support to become a critical vote for the health care bill, he took to the House floor to ask wavering colleagues to join him. Astonished colleagues pointed to Kucinich (D-OH) darting from member to member on the House floor yesterday, saying privately they'd never seen him get so involved in whipping a vote.
It's not just progressives he's targeting to keep in the fold, it's everyone, a top Democratic aide told me. Members know that Kucinich - a staunch antiwar liberal long in favor of a single-payer system and often going out on a limb with his own agenda - is setting aside deep ideology to help get something passed. "It's a totally new dynamic. People are realizing he's doing it for history," the aide said.
Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) told me last night in the House Speaker's lobby that Kucinich's support is "a sign of Democrats recognizing how important this is."
"If Kucinich can back this bill after the way he staked out a position against it, it does help show people they can come together too," Frank said.
A twice-failed presidential candidate, Kucinich has not shied away from criticizing President Obama. But Obama worked on the progressive Democrat when they rode on Air Force One together Monday, and said yesterday that Kucinich's support is "a good sign."
A senior leadership aide argued to members in a memo that momentum is on their side thanks in part to Kucinich, but also as pro-life Democrats start to say they'll vote for it despite reservations about the bill. In several cases they've made the decision after consulting with clergy, something that wavering Democrats have noticed and respect.
Aides say they think these convictions and compromises will help leadership secure the needed 216 votes to pass the legislation and send it to the Senate for the final vote.
Rep. Dale Kildee (D-MI), who spent six years studying to be a priest, cited his faith in his statement yesterday announcing he'll back the bill. Rep. James Oberstar (D-MN) said he sought counsel from his priest, and clergy members have been spotted with members on Capitol Hill in recent days.
Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) told me in an interview that he would give the final health care bill a grade of a B-minus or C-plus, there is still a feeling among Democrats that, "Wow. We've come farther than ever before."
He added, "This is crunch time."
It's a similar message to what Sen. Daniel Akaka told me in an interview last week. Akaka (D-HI) said he knew the hurdles had been cleared when he saw his colleagues ease off their tough stances on the public option and other elements of health care. "It was seeing senators letting go," he said.
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freelunch
March 18, 2010 9:53 AM
Way to go, Dennis, fight as hard as possible for the best possible bill, but vote for what is on the table, even if it should have been better. Every victory for health care funding reform is another step to improvement.
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theone718
March 18, 2010 11:03 AM in reply to freelunch
Couldnt have said it better myself. This is truly just a first step, but one step forward is better than two back.
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Libertine
March 18, 2010 12:48 PM in reply to theone718
LOL...if anything this is taking a step back in the effort to take 2 steps forward. But I guess it all depends on a person's POV. I see nothing positive in the efforts to change the nature of our health care system by protecting the status quo of health insurers, PHrMA, hospitals, etc...
There is no incentive for more competition and relies and the notion that if there are more corporate profits they will reduce the cost of coverage. Let me know how that works out, will ya.
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DA in LA
March 18, 2010 1:01 PM in reply to Libertine
It's just kicking the can down the road.
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Libertine
March 18, 2010 1:18 PM in reply to DA in LA
I am guessing the legislation will be so ineffective in reforming anything that the case will finally be made that we have no choice but to go with single payer, like the rest of the industrialized world has in place. So they'll address it at that point, that point being, whenever the rotting system finally collapses under its own untenable weight.
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Cornelius
March 18, 2010 5:16 PM in reply to Libertine
Perfect. Our Government mandating we pay legislated corporate monopolies premiums w/o cost controls for health insurance that we may need now but will have to wait for for 3-4 years.
"Let me know how that works out, will ya".
And when the raptors have finished eating their young as there is nothing else to eat only then may we become enlightened as a nation. That's assuming we have a leader running the country and not some jive talkin' corporate errand boy.
Gotta go hide now. Lousgirl and Freedom Rider are coming.
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Boidster
March 18, 2010 2:55 PM in reply to Libertine
Millions of kids who currently cannot get any health insurance whatsoever due to pre-existing conditions probably have a different POV from yours. Ditto millions of seniors hit by the "donut hole". Support for this sub-optimal (to put it mildly) bill comes from the "we're all in this together" POV. Not sure what POV (besides the obvious political one) results in a "better to kill it" mentality...
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Libertine
March 18, 2010 2:59 PM in reply to Boidster
SCHIP and medicare. While not perfect those programs already address those groups of people. And even if it weren't the case you think being told you now have the 'right' to purchase overpriced insurance in the marketplace is what those groups want to hear? I am betting the answer is 'no'.
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
March 18, 2010 3:15 PM in reply to Libertine
45,000 people a year who won't die for lack of health insurance.
Untold millions of people who can change jobs and pursue business ideas without worrrying about losing health coverage.
Thirty to forty million who won't be one tumor away from bankruptcy any longer.
Tens of millions who won't see their coverage cancelled because they need to use it.
But oh noes, insurance companies will still make profits so its all just a huge step back.
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Libertine
March 18, 2010 3:17 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
Fine so the D's/Obama's solution is to tell them to buy health insurance in the marketplace. That's the plan right? It sounds like a very simple premise to me...
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readytoblowagasket
March 18, 2010 6:29 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
Of course you mean "health care," since I don't think any health insurance policy guarantees eternal life.
And of course you also mean that the high number of deaths from lack of health "insurance" will presumably diminish after the bill kicks in. Which won't be for several years.
I think we got the PR talking points already. But "A" for effort.
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hologram5
March 18, 2010 3:33 PM in reply to freelunch
I'm sorry but this is NOT a bill to be behind or else he would have been behind it from the beginning. Really? This bill is NOTHING more than Guaranteed profits for the health insurers. COME ON PEOPLE, THESE GUYS JUST RAISED PREMIUMS BY 50% IN MANY STATES!! Can we trust them? NO!
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MKC
March 18, 2010 4:22 PM in reply to freelunch
Dennis is the finest and most decent public servant in America today (along with Bernie Sanders).
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mans_best_friend
March 18, 2010 10:03 AM
One wonders why it took so long, but these are Democrats after all. Sigh.
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lousgirl84
March 18, 2010 12:59 PM in reply to mans_best_friend
Yep. 14 months too long and it took the wind out of many liberal sails but let's hope this is. I have a good feeling and the President is confident.
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hologram5
March 18, 2010 3:48 PM in reply to lousgirl84
Hey louisgirl, I know we have not seen eye to eye on a few things but, you have to see this:
Where in the constitution, or in our History have we as citizens been required to purchase a good or service to remain a "lawful" citizen? It hasn't. I am for health care believe you me as I don't have it. But, I have had too many ancestors die on the battle field defending the constitution to allow this abherration pass. This is a direct attack on your sovereignty, if you don't understand, read the constitution as well as the federalist papers so you'll understand what they had in mind. They have warned us about things like this again and again. History repeats itself, I don't know if I like the chapter unfolding.
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Barfood
March 19, 2010 8:00 AM in reply to hologram5
Car insurance. You buy it or pay a steep "not covered" payment.
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Observerinvancouver
March 18, 2010 2:41 PM in reply to mans_best_friend
What? 70 years or 14 months?
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Elizabeth2
March 18, 2010 3:16 PM in reply to mans_best_friend
Still, I'd rather belong to the party that has to fight itself to get to consensus rather than one where everyone says "how high" when they hear a fingersnap and are told to "jump". Is it really true that every single Republican House member is going to offer an amendment to the bill -- just to try to gum up the works. If so, I HOPE they show that on national TV.
I would be so embarassed to be a Republican these days...
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Brownbagger
March 18, 2010 10:11 AM
Hard to deny this is a reflection of President Obama's leadership skill. You are doing the right thing, Dennis.
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Nutter
March 18, 2010 10:29 AM in reply to Brownbagger
Isn't this the LBJ all those far left keep wanting?
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Barry Ragin
March 18, 2010 11:11 AM in reply to Nutter
Yep, and it bodes well for what will be accomplished over the next 6 years.
Americans like winners almost as much as we like fighters and underdogs. By staking out unreasonable and frantic positions, the GOP has turned passage of even a flawed bill into a major victory for Democrats. Get it done, start working on the next project (jobs? public option?) and watch Democrats rebound in the polls. November's not going to be as bad as it could have been once Democrats get it together on this.
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hologram5
March 18, 2010 3:35 PM in reply to Barry Ragin
Yeah and I guess Americans like the plutocracy we live in too huh? Not me. I want MY CONSTITUTION BACK.
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brewmn61
March 18, 2010 5:34 PM in reply to hologram5
When did you ever have that constitution? You do realize America was formed by and for "the plutocracy," don't you Karl?
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hologram5
March 18, 2010 7:50 PM in reply to brewmn61
You know it is just as much YOURS as it is mine. I'm willing to stand beside you to defend it. Are you?
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Barfood
March 19, 2010 8:11 AM in reply to hologram5
I am BESIDE myself with wanting to stand next to people like me. And eat Freedom Fries and stuff. Right?
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Official A
March 18, 2010 11:19 AM in reply to Nutter
The "far left" wanting another LBJ? Do you work for Rupert Murdoch, or are you a student in an underperforming Texas middle school? It's obvious you are either a revisionist or too young to remember the far left's "love affair" with Lyndon.
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ondioline
March 18, 2010 11:31 AM in reply to Official A
Au contraire, you haven't been reading your Blogosphere Current Events Magazine, because the "far left" has, indeed, been calling for Obama to be "more like LBJ" in "cracking some heads together" to "get things done". Never mind that they didn't elect someone who ever claimed to be the head cracking type... Never mind that, as you pointed out, there was a strange dissonance in the request and who was making it... I take your point from a historical basis, but the comment you're responding to was spot on in terms of what a lot of folks on the left have been saying as it relates to Obama's leadership (or perceived lack thereof) on HCR.
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fkaZk0sm0
March 18, 2010 1:23 PM in reply to ondioline
never mind that the 'far left' never actually wanted obama in the first place...
don't paint the 'far left' with the disillusioned dipshits brush. the real left never liked obama because we knew he was a centrist who fancies himself a 'consensus builder'. the real left wanted a bare-knuckled lefttist. we settled for obama.
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Official A
March 18, 2010 2:24 PM in reply to ondioline
These "far left" of whom you speak...are these the selfsame ones who are villifying Rep. Kucinich today? This isn't the three stooges, and I am not at all certain that the president cracked heads like Mo. I rather imagine it was more subtle and perhaps more beneficial to the lesser stooges than most of us imagine.
In the final analysis, though, the use of the term "far left" pretty much kills all possibility of rational discourse to begin with.
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margoharris
March 18, 2010 10:23 AM
PASS. THE. DAMN. BILL.
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CityGuy
March 18, 2010 11:48 AM in reply to margoharris
AMEN.
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bluesplashy
March 18, 2010 6:23 PM in reply to margoharris
Yessss!
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tpmreader
March 18, 2010 10:27 AM
[The American legal system has been corrupted almost beyond recognition, Judge Edith Jones of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, told the Federalist Society of Harvard Law School on February 28.
She said that the question of what is morally right is routinely sacrificed to what is politically expedient. The change has come because legal philosophy has descended to nihilism.]
Very sad and disappointing, at best, Congressman Kucinich. Your possition seemingly now fully supports fraud, wasste and abuse, please let us know how this should not be viewed as a somewhat or a fully tratorious and cowardice action on your part as our US Congressional Representative?
To my knowledge there is no 'Oversight and Accountability' in this Legislation Bill and no 'Federal Employee Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Restoration Act' Legislation Bill and both of which are supposedly guaranteed by our US Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence with Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness for all.
Also the wrongdoing of Fidicary Duty towards Wall Street, Shareholders//Stakeholders et-cetra over a patients care and life has not been corrected in the may areas of neede correction and of proper and forthright 'Oversight and Accountability'.
Democracynow.org, this morning and apparently will also have tomorrow morning a Ralph Nadar and Dennis Kucinich Interview.
Ralph Nadar in my view was way too kind to your seemingly recent wrongdoing Leadership action.
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ondioline
March 18, 2010 11:33 AM in reply to tpmreader
My googler must be broken. My pocket constitution isn't helping either. Can you help me find a reference for "Federal Employee Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Restoration Act"? I'm not lazy; an article citation would be fine. Thanks so much, sport!
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tpmreader
March 18, 2010 11:58 AM in reply to ondioline
I agree your googler and pocket constitution are broken, non-existent and/or of no help as is seemingly your ad-hominen, nonsenseical sarcasm, comment and review.
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ondioline
March 18, 2010 12:06 PM in reply to tpmreader
I challenge you to a game of horseshoes.
And then I challenge you to point out the alleged ad hominem in question.
And then I challenge you to answer my original question and explain to me where the US Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence, make a peep about whistleblowers...
And then I challenge you to justify your assertion that Representative Kucinich's decision to vote for HCR represents a "traitorous" act...
And once you have completed those tasks, I challenge you to a duel on the National Mall. Your weapon of choice. If you pick the date, I'll choose the time. (I'm not sure you can find the National Mall, mind you. My guess is that you'll just park by the nearest JCPenny's and call that close enough. But don't take that as me ducking out or anything. Prove me wrong. Really.)
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tpmreader
March 18, 2010 12:27 PM in reply to ondioline
You reply is dispicable and incorrect.
Your questions and abuse have been answered by me personally many times on this website for many years.
Your nonsencial and dispicable challange(s) I presume are in a clear violation of TPM and especially within their sprirt and concerns and the expected respect and regard to and from their TPM Readers.
In respect to TPM, I therefore presume I should not share in your seemingly innappropriate provoking behavior and/or in any corrupt endeavors you have directly advocated and mentioned.
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ondioline
March 18, 2010 12:59 PM in reply to tpmreader
If that's how you feel, I think you should report me to the local Internet Gendarmerie. You deserve better than to be abused by the likes of me, a despicable and dispicatable, traitorious coward of a nonsencial dog. You've probably begun to suspect that the Magna Carta contains provisions protecting you from this manner of Internet hectoring... And you would be right. But I am a dastardly rapscallion. I care not for the Constitution or the Magna Carta. I care not for whistleblowers, prohibitions against dueling, and the rule of law, and I care not for the tyrannical governance of TPM spies like you. For you see, I am William Munny out of Missori. I dynamited the Rock Island and Pacific in 1869, killing women and children. CHOOSE YOUR WEAPON, SIR!
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Libertyluvrz
March 18, 2010 12:47 PM in reply to ondioline
I volunteer to be your second!
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ondioline
March 18, 2010 12:50 PM in reply to Libertyluvrz
Thank you!
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tpmreader
March 18, 2010 1:11 PM in reply to Libertyluvrz
Hey Libertyluvrz and seemingly others and TPM. Are you continuing to Second this, now Affirmed seemingly manical deranged and threating Individual?
What is TPM DC and/or the Author, Christiana Bellatoni of this Article have to say? Any comments or concerns TPM?
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Homefries
March 18, 2010 2:09 PM in reply to tpmreader
Any bloviation that can combine the terms "rapscallion", "Magna Carta", and "William Munny" in one paragraph has my respect.
+1
Josey Wales would be proud.
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tpmreader
March 18, 2010 2:26 PM in reply to Homefries
.....and as a presumably 300+ year old individual....may get another point on rating..... My apology for the displeasing sarcasm, if any within my .....another point in your rating scale.
I get it and thank you if also a 'Peace on Earth' is within your con notation.
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ondioline
March 18, 2010 2:46 PM in reply to Homefries
Mama always told me I could yammer, palaver, and bloviate with the very best of them, but she never warned me that anyone would think I was "manical" because of it... That said, I appreciate your continued support, and would also like to offer a "Peace on Earth" within your adap tations and con notations. Whatever that meant.
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tpmreader
March 18, 2010 3:28 PM in reply to ondioline
There goes your insanity defense.
Although as you are seemingly well educated and presumably connected and have shown and displayed a complete lack of respect for me and seemingly proper and forthright, respect and regard to a more and expected use of Language and from the current corrupton within our so-called Democratic System and Laws that you may be successful in a insanity defense should you ever be held accountable in a proper 'Court of Law'!
Again, Congressman Dennis Kucinich and his support of this seemingly corrupt, fraudulent and abusive health care Legislation Bill does seemingly nothing in proper and forthright, respest and regard as would be expected in a Democratic Society to halt, prevent or stop the Fraud, Waste and Abuse and seemingly only adds significant damage.....
Good luck and best wishes to you and your Mother on any proper and forthright endeavors within any of your so-called reference to 'Peace on Earth' endeavors you may be accorded.
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ondioline
March 18, 2010 3:56 PM in reply to tpmreader
Run-on sentence much?
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NotBornEveryMinute
March 18, 2010 4:24 PM in reply to ondioline
LOL! A string of words starting with a capital letter and ending with a punctuation mark is not necessarily a sentence!
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ondioline
March 18, 2010 4:47 PM in reply to NotBornEveryMinute
I tried reading that last post twice and my right eyelid just refused to open after a while. I blinked and it said "That's okay... I'm gonna sit the rest of this one out..."
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hologram5
March 18, 2010 3:39 PM in reply to ondioline
You tell me there sport, since you're so "edumacated". WHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION does it say I HAVE to buy their substandard service to be a "LAWFUL CITIZEN" of these UNITED STATES? Don't bother, you won't find it.
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ondioline
March 18, 2010 3:58 PM in reply to hologram5
You tell me where I claimed any such thing, and I reckon I'll let you have a bottle of whiskey and 25 minutes alone with my horse, Itellyawhat...
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hologram5
March 18, 2010 4:04 PM in reply to ondioline
I know you are just trying to get a response and I really don't blame you, I blame society for the mess we are in. When American Idol gets more ratings than a health care debate, we're in trouble. Oh, I don't drink whiskey, too many impurities. I go for Tequilla.
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ondioline
March 18, 2010 4:07 PM in reply to hologram5
Your first comment:
You tell me there sport, since you're so "edumacated". WHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION does it say I HAVE to buy their substandard service to be a "LAWFUL CITIZEN" of these UNITED STATES? Don't bother, you won't find it.
***
Your second comment:
I know you are just trying to get a response and I really don't blame you, I blame society for the mess we are in. When American Idol gets more ratings than a health care debate, we're in trouble. Oh, I don't drink whiskey, too many impurities. I go for Tequilla.
***
My conclusion: The pot had the balls to call the kettle what now? Well, I hope the kettle whipped his ass with the hypocrite's own belt...
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hologram5
March 18, 2010 7:56 PM in reply to ondioline
Pot calling the kettle black, hmm. Ok, I don't get it. I am trying to basically make logical points. I didn't come to fight against you, I came to fight WITH you for what is right. This isn't a question about left or right anymore, it's not about an "R" or a "D". What this IS about, is what is right, what is just, and what is good. Remember that? Remember when people that were gathered in a park shared with each other and looked after each other's kids? Remember when? Where did it go wrong?
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ondioline
March 18, 2010 8:02 PM in reply to hologram5
That's beautiful and I'm touched. I would also like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony... I'll buy the Cokes, if you'll grab the bullhorn and start luring them into the park. Start with that part you mentioned about how awful society and American Idol are... That's real conciliatory shit that makes me feel your dedication to the brotherhood of man, straight away... So you handle the rounding up and I'll take my "edumacated" self down to the local story and buy the world a Coke. I'll meet you in the park. Don't worry about me getting there first... I don't drink Coke.
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WaitWut?
March 18, 2010 5:40 PM in reply to ondioline
I want tickets!!!
And...the response wasn't dispicable...it was hilarious.
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Cal Gal
March 18, 2010 12:56 PM in reply to tpmreader
Huh?
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madmatt
March 18, 2010 10:29 AM
Thanks for nothing dennis you POS, you called this bill a giveaway to the ins co's and then vote for it anyway, you are just as sold out as barack and the rest of the scum in washington. Maybe next time you can just sell us out on day one like every other progressive.
Hope you die you poisonous little toad..obviously thats what you want for us as you feed us to the corporate bloodsuckers.!
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chimpale
March 18, 2010 10:58 AM in reply to madmatt
Kucinich a sellout. Right.
For all that this bill still allows insurance companies to do, near term, it's still a far cry from the status quo. I hope to see Kucinich leading the fight--and being treated as a leader in the fight--to immediately begin improving on the bill after it's signed and to at least get us a public option.
But, I'm sure an absolute purist would rather see us go another two or three generations without any health care/insurance reform then to have an impure bill. Better to let rescission continue. Better to allow annual and lifetime caps to continue. Better to have kids kicked off of their parents' family coverage when they turn 18. It's the principle that's important, not a bunch of stupid lives.
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Philv
March 18, 2010 11:20 AM in reply to chimpale
Remember when we discovered Franken was a sellout too? Good times.
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madmatt
March 18, 2010 11:25 AM in reply to chimpale
there is NOTHING in the bill that stops ANY of the abuses...which is just how the ins co's wrote the bill. Show me ANY enforcement in the bill.
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hologram5
March 18, 2010 3:43 PM in reply to madmatt
Some are just too ignorant to see the forest through the trees. You are totally correct, there IS NO OVERSIGHT. It was already stripped out as quick as it was placed.
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KY Yellow Dog
March 18, 2010 12:40 PM in reply to chimpale
Absolutely. Amazing to witness in real-time one of those moments that turns a mere politician into a statesman for the ages.
I bow to no one on my dirty fucking hippie credentials and I'm telling you that this is going to make the single lefti-est member of the House (since Bernie got promotoed to the Senate) into a LEADER on transforming this piece of shit into real single-payer.
Kucinich going from a lefty scold everyone ignores to a lefty Conscience everyone respects is going to accomplish far more on health care and many other issues than committing political suicide over admittedly huge subsidies to a dying industry.
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Cal Gal
March 18, 2010 1:01 PM in reply to KY Yellow Dog
I agree. It's time the progressives stopped throwing pebbles down from their Ivory Tower of Purity and actually whipped the floor to get something done. Get some real power by participating and make other OWE YOU.
Off point, I want to see Democrats across the spectrum starting to run HARD against Republicans qua Republicans.
I want to see generic attacks: "Why would you vote for a Republican? They're the ones who wrecked the economy with their greed. They're the ones who have tried to bankrupt Social Security by raiding it to give tax cuts to the rich." etc etc.
Take OFF the GLOVES!
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hologram5
March 18, 2010 3:53 PM in reply to Cal Gal
The sooner everyone gets off the "two-party" train, the sooner we as people can get something done. There is no such thing anymore. They are both two sides of the same coin and if you really don't see that, I feel for you. This is nothing more than a blank check to insurers with NO OVERSIGHT. How's that for the greed factor? Humans are greedy and if you say you aren't then you're a liar. It is our nature. So, with that said, can we really trust a corp to do what is right by the people? Between 1850 and 1900 more amendments were made to the constitution to protect us from corporations than were made to protect slaves. What now really does that tell you?
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bluesplashy
March 18, 2010 6:36 PM in reply to KY Yellow Dog
Yessss thank you. Kucinich did not sell out for a ride on Air Force One for GDamn sake.
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hologram5
March 18, 2010 4:06 PM in reply to chimpale
It is NOT a far cry from status quo, they took out all OVERSIGHT of health insurance companies. No oversight=abuse.
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kunda311
March 18, 2010 4:37 PM in reply to chimpale
Well, those hardcore purists that you reference, who apparently post here at TPM often, have already blasted this bill, this presidency, and virtually everything and everyone they disagree with as corrupt hypocrites in league with corporations and all the powerful elites. Looking through their eyes I see a paranoid landscape where everything is a conspiracy and everyone's in on it but them.
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Alixman984
March 18, 2010 10:58 AM in reply to madmatt
Dude you are crazy!
This bill can actually help you get some needed help!
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SporeTen
March 18, 2010 11:02 AM in reply to madmatt
And the clearheaded, calm, and reasonable among us has spoken.
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mans_best_friend
March 18, 2010 11:08 AM in reply to SporeTen
He's convinced me. I don't know why I didn't see it before.
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hologram5
March 18, 2010 3:58 PM in reply to SporeTen
Let me educate you my friend:
http://rawstory.com/2010/03/insurers-big-win-parliamentarian-blocks-rate-hike-watchdog/
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ottis
March 18, 2010 11:02 AM in reply to madmatt
You will get over it. If not, tough shit!
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rynato
March 18, 2010 11:10 AM in reply to madmatt
This is the best chance we have in a generation, if not several generations, to pass health care reform. We will not get a chance like this again, perhaps in all of our lifetimes.
I'm confident this, in essence, is what Obama told Dennis.
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Official A
March 18, 2010 11:12 AM in reply to rynato
But one must also imagine what Dennis told the president.
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rynato
March 18, 2010 11:26 AM in reply to Official A
yes, I wonder what Dennis asked of Obama which has gotten Mr. K so motivated. Maybe a double-super-top-secret plan to get a public option?
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ondioline
March 18, 2010 11:41 AM in reply to rynato
There's a TPM Reader/Commenter named Barry Champlain who apparently knows exactly what went down on Air Force One. I stepped on his delicate tootsies yesterday and now he won't tell me, but maybe if you are gentle and sweet, he will spill the beans. Just don't mention me...
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lousgirl84
March 18, 2010 12:01 PM in reply to ondioline
Lol....love it
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ondioline
March 18, 2010 12:08 PM in reply to lousgirl84
I can't wait until HCR is off the agenda so this place can go back to Bush-era levels of nutjobbery and insanity!
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lousgirl84
March 18, 2010 1:03 PM in reply to ondioline
Indeed!!! Way to keep tpmreader on its toes.
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ondioline
March 18, 2010 1:14 PM in reply to ondioline
I should've been more clear (My sloppy capitalization didn't help): TPM Reader "tpmreader" and TPM Reader "Barry Champlain" are not, to the best of my knowledge, the same person. The spelling and punctuation leads me to that conclusion, and while these things can certainly be faked, I don't think that is the case here.
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Libertyluvrz
March 18, 2010 12:51 PM in reply to ondioline
Again, if you actually duel, I'm right there with you!
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ondioline
March 18, 2010 1:01 PM in reply to Libertyluvrz
I don't want to duel with Barry Champlain. He was either on AF1 with Barack and Dennis or he had his people there. That's out of my league... Barry would probably call in Marine Snipers or an airstrike from a UAV...
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Official A
March 18, 2010 2:27 PM in reply to rynato
Or civil liberties, maybe...
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oleeb
March 18, 2010 1:03 PM in reply to rynato
I agree this was the best chance we've had in a long, long time to pass healthcare reform. Problem is they aren't going to pass healthcare reform. They aren't even bothering to use the phrase to cover up their failure to do so. Have you not noticed that it is "health insurance reform" and has been for many months now? That's because what we're being sold is the insurance industry's ineffective suggestions for improving our healthcare system. It changes almost nothing about our healthcare system, but it does hand the insurance companies 40 million new customers and a $70 billion annual windfall.
So, yes, it's too damn bad they missed the chance for healthcare reform.
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whitesauce
March 18, 2010 11:40 AM in reply to madmatt
I think it's wrong to call Kucinich a sellout -- unless you think that compromising is selling out.
In December, I was advocating that they kill the bill because I didn't think that mandates were fair. I still don't. However, it's clear that something needs to be done now and when you break down how the bill works, it's going to be helpful. The issue is that 10% of Americans will have to buy insurance. Those who can't afford it will be subsidized. If that process becomes problematic, then we fight for change.
As a progressive, I believe in pushing our agenda, but there comes a time when we have to get our foot in the door. I don't think we can wait to get a perfect plan. Purity in the case will have us back in the minority with nothing. I share your frustration, but it's time take something and prepare ourselves for the next fight. We really need to make progress on this issue.
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zonk
March 18, 2010 12:43 PM in reply to madmatt
OK, who left the FDL cage open again?
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Clavis
March 18, 2010 11:04 AM
Can't we all just agree that his wife is a beautiful and accomplished woman?
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Official A
March 18, 2010 11:11 AM
I am proud of Rep. Kucinich. Unlike the blue dogs, he staked out his position and negotiated from it instead of signaling cooperation and then throwing up roadblocks. In so doing, he has made his point and gotten the President's attention without derailing the process. This is the way laws are made in real life.
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hoppycalif2
March 18, 2010 11:21 AM in reply to Official A
I second this! And, add, this is a perfect example for all of us progressive Democrats. It shows how we can advocate for our positions as long as possible, but graciously accept the necessary compromises in the end. It is like working our butts off to get one candidate elected in a primary, but uniting behind the winner when we fall short.
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madmatt
March 18, 2010 11:27 AM in reply to Official A
Then what exactly did progressives GET, not a damn thing, but the scum in the center and the right get every wish fulfilled. Thanks for nothing Dennis you lying little shit.
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mans_best_friend
March 18, 2010 11:30 AM in reply to madmatt
You should speak to your doctor about increasing your meds.
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tpmreader
March 18, 2010 12:16 PM in reply to mans_best_friend
In support of madmatt comments and not in support of your comments and 'mans best friend' handle your 'goffy' symbol and your clear and unmistakable consistent ad-hominen dispariging and non-sensical comments and remarks upon many others appear more in line with that of a 'CRACK-POT' and seemingly not advice that any reasonable person would accept.
Are you employed? and within the Government, Insurance, Parmacetucial and/or Health Insurance Industry?
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Libertine
March 18, 2010 12:40 PM in reply to tpmreader
I am guessing he/she is employed by the administration along with lousgirl and freerider. Probably sharing the same office space shooting rubber bands at each other when not blogging about how Obama can do no wrong.
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mans_best_friend
March 18, 2010 1:21 PM in reply to tpmreader
I will henceforth cease ad hominem attacks and try to be more like you.
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tpmreader
March 18, 2010 1:33 PM in reply to mans_best_friend
Not likely and as your comment is again ad-hominen sarcastic unproductive non-sense.
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chimpale
March 18, 2010 11:56 AM in reply to madmatt
I'll say it again. If this bill is what the insurance companies were hoping for, they're spending a shitload of money just to 'trick' the Dems into voting for it.
After it's passed, the insurers will find ways to mitigate the damage, but it's not going to make things easy for them. Seriously, how much money are they willing to spend on legal fees to defend their right to rescind a policy on some kid with leukemia? Multiply it by the number of times they'll want to take a chance on rescission with other policyholders.
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oleeb
March 18, 2010 1:09 PM in reply to chimpale
Since they will only be fined $100/day if they rescind a policy I suspect they'll spend nothing on legal fees. They'll just take the fine and to hell with the leukemia victim.
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Jaycal
March 18, 2010 12:59 PM in reply to madmatt
madmatt, for someone disparaging Kucinich about 'selling out' you stay focused on what you're 'getting out of it'. I think you just proved the difference between you and Kuchinich. He can tell the difference between making substantive changes in the status quo to the benefit of tens if not hundreds of millions vs. dying on a lost hill in vain with his immaculate conception in tact.
You just seem like you're looking for a payout.
You might remember that if conservatives actually got what they're looking for we'd be voting on the McCain Health Care Bill, or no bill at all.
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Official A
March 18, 2010 2:18 PM in reply to madmatt
Not everyone is as fucked up as Ben Nelson, so maybe Dennis didn't trade for free healthcare for his district, and maybe he's not announcing his quid-pro-quo. But that doesn't mean he got nothing. There's not a soul out there more qualified to advocate for progressives.
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oleeb
March 18, 2010 1:06 PM in reply to Official A
I would simply point out that the Blue Dogs got just about everything they wanted. The progressives? Nada.
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Philv
March 18, 2010 11:22 AM
I'm extremely happy to have been proven wrong about Kucinich. While I can't say there won't be times in the future where he frustrates me, I'll always remember that when his vote was desperately needed he was willing to give it.
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GTFOOH
March 18, 2010 11:40 AM
Wow, that must have been some club sandwhich he got on Air Force 1.
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readytoblowagasket
March 18, 2010 6:33 PM in reply to GTFOOH
It was vegan.
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bluestatedon
March 18, 2010 12:00 PM
It's obvious why Dennis the Angry Keebler Elf changed his tune: his "beautiful and accomplished" wife promised him there'd be no more romance in the Elf Hut if he didn't support the bill, and that brought Dennis around right quick.
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johnnyba
March 18, 2010 12:01 PM
Maybe I've been to hard on him. Or maybe the mother ship called in new instructions.
Either way good on Rep. Kucinich.
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AndrewBW
March 18, 2010 12:03 PM
If you are one of Congressman Kucinich's constituents, as I am, please be sure and let him know directly that you support his efforts.
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Lok52
March 18, 2010 2:44 PM in reply to AndrewBW
I am not one of his constituents, but I wrote him and said thank you yesterday anyway. And I urged him to continue to fight a more fair system that would cover everyone, like his current bill opening up Medicare to everyone.
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SRN
March 18, 2010 12:09 PM
I, like many progressives, originally wanted single payer but when that wasn't possible was willing to settle for a public option. Unfortunately, because of the Blue Dogs et al. this too was taken off the table because the insiders knew that it WOULD NOT PASS. Now we have what some consider a watered down bill but it's better than NO BILL at all. At least if we pass SOMETHING, over the months and years it can be amended and tweaked to include some of the things we all originally wanted. If we pass NOTHING, that is what we'll have, NOTHING and the opportunity will have been wasted. (I think this was at least part of the conversation on Air Force One yesterday.)
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willdabeast
March 18, 2010 12:43 PM in reply to SRN
That's the thing, we gave up on single payer, but a public option wasn't too bad of a compromise. At the very least, it's a safety net because of the dangers having a mandate can create. Now we can only hope the public option can be amended in later on. Otherwise, this bill is only good if there are no loopholes for the ins co to exploit. I would hate to somehow end up back in square one, except now we're legally bound to buy health insurance.
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Libertyluvrz
March 18, 2010 12:59 PM in reply to willdabeast
I agree with you, but I personally know the president of a insurance company in NY. They are *not* happy about the bill, even with the increase in new customers, because they know that the days of charging anything they want with no rhyme or reason are over.
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Cal Gal
March 18, 2010 1:15 PM in reply to willdabeast
One of the most important things about this bill is that it be passed. By that fact alone, health insurance will become a federal matter, and it will become easier to address it in the future.
Make no mistake about it, this is a BIG step, whether or not it is a "good" bill.
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Blue Girl
March 18, 2010 12:59 PM
Thank you, Dennis Kucinich. The Perfect is too often the enemy of the good. Could this be better? Sure. Hell, if I was writing it, all that stuff the republicans are saying about this bill would be justified, because that is exactly what I would do - a fully nationalized system like Great Britain, and I would tax the shit out of the rich to pay for it. But I am unelectable, military resume or not (I like the socialism of the military, what can I say?)
We ain't Sweden. This is the best we could do. Let me paraphrase someone whose come-uppance I fantasize about: "You pass landmark legislation with the Senate you have, not the Senate you wish you had."
If the journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step, this is our first step, and it appears to be on solid ground. Now we just have to keep marching.
And this is doubly sweet for me - I am older than Medicare and a true Truman Democrat, a member of the same county committee that he was a part of his entire adult life. He wanted universal coverage for Americans right after WW II - and had he pulled it off, we would be a hell of a lot better of in our industrial and manufacturing sectors.
60+ years later, I will finally get to raise a glass of bourbon and say "This one's for you, Harry!"
But just one...because I immediately have to get back to work on the eventual single payer system that we truly need.
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bluesplashy
March 18, 2010 6:58 PM in reply to Blue Girl
Thank you. I'll drink to Harry too. Hard to believe that it may really start to happen this time huh?
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decisivemoment
March 18, 2010 1:11 PM
Kucinich has evidently decided that this bill is essential to the re-election of Obama and the maintenance of a Democratic majority, and that the re-election of Obama and Democratic majorities are prerequisites to -- although not necessarily guarantees of -- more progressive policies. Kucinich finally sees, and buys into, the idea of this being a beachhead for future gains. I'm relieved and grateful to see it happening.
Now we all have to buy into the idea of this being a first step, with a lot more work to do in the years to come.
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ErinPDX
March 18, 2010 1:35 PM
Christine, you are a woman, correct? Why do you keep calling them "pro-life Dems?" THEY ARE ANTI-WOMAN, ANTI-CHOICE, ANTI-PRIVACY!!!
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ErinPDX
March 18, 2010 1:36 PM
As a matter of fact, they are PRO-DEATH.
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ErinPDX
March 18, 2010 1:50 PM
Pro-coathanger Dems
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Skybolt
March 18, 2010 2:04 PM
I used to be a member of the Socialist Party. I registered as a Democrat in 2004 to help support Kucinich's campaign for president. This is why. It's easy to sit at a computer and talk in absolutes -- "this bill does nothing," "progressives got nothing," "this bill is nothing but a giveaway to the insurance companies" and so on. It's hard to be in Congress and have an actual vote that could decide whether we get any change or no change, and whether we can or cannot make further changes in the future.
Dennis Kucinich has been fighting this battle for years, and he knows what is at stake and what can be accomplished. He is going to use his vote to get something done, not withhold his vote so that TPM commentators can feel validated.
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Measure for Measure
March 18, 2010 2:38 PM in reply to Skybolt
Ted Kennedy got a lot done because he could cut deals without anybody questioning his liberal bona fides. Up to now Kucinich hasn't been that sort of Congressman. But it would be great if he stepped up to the mantle: perhaps he has just enough seniority and political experience to do so now.
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Rockridge
March 18, 2010 2:43 PM in reply to Skybolt
Listen to Skybolt. This is an actual Socialist speaking who is interested in actually moving policy forward. Well said, sir or madam.
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ARG in Chicago
March 18, 2010 11:45 PM in reply to Skybolt
I agree with Skybolt. And I defer to Kucinich's wisdom on this matter. Dennis is the real deal. He's been in the House for some time now, and he has very clearly established that he's not afraid to stand on principle and go against his party or his President.
If, in this case, Dennis Kucinich has determined that it makes more sense to get *something* done now and come back to fight for more later, then I am convinced, and I am with him. Let's get this thing done, and then let's get to what's next.
-- ARG
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ws84
March 18, 2010 3:32 PM
I consider myself a Ted Kennedy liberal. Proud of it too. I voted for DK because I agreed with the direction he wanted to take this country when it came to health care, war, and the economy. I certainly knew that Obama was a centrist, but unlike the far-right we are not so dogmatic that we can't compromise. I say Kucinich was playing his hand until the very end to get the most out of this bill. Like maybe a public option. I always knew he'd never let his vote be the deciding one.
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BonnyBrown
March 18, 2010 3:35 PM
Dennis is a sellout. Now he wants everyone else who have principles to sell theirs out too. Not surprising.
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Patterman
March 18, 2010 4:03 PM
I love you, Dennis Kucinich!! You have shown your true colors, and they are bright, clear, and beautiful.
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Joseph Calling
March 18, 2010 4:50 PM
Kucinich sold his soul for a ride on Air Force One. Kind of reminds me of this anecdote from Winston Churchill:
Churchill: Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?
Socialite: My goodness, Mr. Churchill… Well, I suppose… we would have to discuss terms, of course…
Churchill: Would you sleep with me for five pounds?
Socialite: Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!
Churchill: Madam, we’ve already established that. Now we are haggling about the price.
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tpmreader
March 18, 2010 5:43 PM in reply to Joseph Calling
I expect it is too much too hope that Rep. Kucinich will abstain from voting before this weekend and his forthcomming Interview with Democracynow.org Amy Goodman and Ralph Nadar?
Along the 'forgive me, I have sinned' Here is your money back.
HEY AMY GOOMAN, 'ANYONE LISTENING'. ONE OF YOUR FAMOUS REMARKS.
I GUESS NOT AS I AND SEEMINLGY MANY OTHERS CONTINUE TO BE IGNORED BY YOU AND ALL OTHER SO-CALLED DEMOCRATIC ADVOCATE MEDIA POWERFUL VOICES AND ORGANIZATIONS.
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Joe Buck
March 18, 2010 7:28 PM in reply to tpmreader
Kucinich's interview with Amy Goodman was this morning. Ralph Nader was in a separate segment.
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tpmreader
March 18, 2010 10:28 PM in reply to Joe Buck
Thank you. From what I recall is that they where announced as known that each would be commenting on this Kucinich last minute Air force One? and subsequent complete reversal Vote change?!.
Also to my recollection, Amy Goodman said in abruptly closing the broadcast that it would continue tomorrow with the same former Presidential Candidate Guests and Rep. Kucinich and Nadar.
I just viewed the replay of the Jay Leno show that mentioned that Kucinich changed his vote after a ride on Air Force One, 'What is he, 7 years old'.
As journalism and advocate media have seemingly disappeared and/or seriously disappointed through the years, somehow I continue to hope this democracynow.org broadcasts, Connect the Dots, main stream media and TPM et-cetra will rise above the 7 year old level and/or if and where applicable deception, deceit and/or innappropriate secrecy and/or silience with some real and more reasonable advocacy, resolutions and resolves towards our Democracy, Laws and Religious endeavors within these crucial years ahead.
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ivy22
March 18, 2010 6:54 PM
Love Kucinich. He will be the junkyard dog once this passes to move us to single payer. How about the unholy alliance of Dennis and Grayson. Pass the damn bill, then go for the throat.
Leave the Repubs in our dust.
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Tosh
June 6, 2010 2:46 AM
Well, those hardcore purists that you reference, who apparently post here at TPM often, have already blasted this bill, this presidency, and virtually everything and everyone they disagree with as corrupt hypocrites in league with corporations and all the powerful elites. Looking through their eyes I see a paranoid landscape where everything is a conspiracy and everyone's in on it but them.
m65 kamagra
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August 22, 2010 11:27 AM
Thank you for the mp3 dinle information your provide.mp3 indir
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