
A report in Roll Call contains some unwelcome news for Democrats:
"The Senate Parliamentarian has ruled that President Barack Obama must sign Congress' original health care reform bill before the Senate can act on a companion reconciliation package, senior GOP sources said Thursday," the article reads.
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell's spokesman Don Stewart confirms this to me: "The Senate Parliamentarian's office has informed Senate Republicans that reconciliation instructions require the measure to make changes in law," Stewart said.
Translated: the reconciliation bill, which would amend the Senate health care bill, will likely be on hold in the Senate until the President signs the latter into law. Assuming the ruling is made official, it could be overturned by the Senate chair--likely Vice President Joe Biden--but there's little-to-no precedent for such a maneuver.
That could unnerve some House Democrats, many of whom don't want the Senate bill signed into law until after the reconciliation bill has been passed by both the House and Senate. They worry that the Senate won't be able to follow through with its promise to pass a reconciliation bill, and that the result will be that the Senate health care bill will become law without any changes.
Nevertheless, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid sent McConnell a sternly worded letter this afternoon, vowing to press ahead with reconciliation anyhow. Perhaps that will put House Democrats' minds at ease.
Reid's office had no comment on this story.
Powkat
March 11, 2010 3:43 PM
Oh, no, not a sternly worded letter. Surely Mitchie will crumble.
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chimpale
March 11, 2010 4:14 PM in reply to Powkat
That Mitch McConnell sure could use a good talking to.
And if he's not careful, he just might get it.
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CityGuy
March 11, 2010 4:25 PM in reply to chimpale
Wow! That'll sure show that Mitch McConnell what for! Seriously, isn't this the time that the President of the Senate-Biden-steps in to allow the reconciliation to move forward?
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JorgeOrwell
March 11, 2010 6:19 PM in reply to Powkat
Perfect! Now Harry has the cover he needs to turn our tax returns over to the insurance and pharma corporations!
GOD BLESS THE HOUSE OF LORDS!
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Walter Mitty
March 11, 2010 3:43 PM
Fire him and hire a new one that agrees with the Dems. Republicans did that under Bush...
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JanglerNPL
March 11, 2010 3:49 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
Or...pass the Senate bill as is, have Obama sign it, then fix it through reconciliation. Which is what should have happened months ago.
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Rick Jones
March 11, 2010 7:51 PM in reply to JanglerNPL
Yes. Do it in this way so the Repubs have less to whine about. The House Dems need to have some faith in the Senate Dems, but there are reasons they don't (Nelson, Lincoln, Lieberman, et al). Perhaps the Senate having the Reconciliation bill prepared beforehand and OK'd by the House with a 53+ Senator-signed pledge to pass as is will settle the nerves of the few holdouts in the House.
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Kevin Sutton
March 11, 2010 3:52 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
If Reid has the necessary conjones to do that, then he probably has the necessary cojones to proceed with reconciliation afterwards and makes such a committment to the House.
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Rick Jones
March 11, 2010 7:53 PM in reply to Kevin Sutton
All House and Senate Dems need a cajones check. Then get this thing done.
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dtOZONE
March 11, 2010 4:43 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
Which, of course, makes it the right thing to do.
Oh, I forgot, we should only do "the right thing" when it comes to terrorists.
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Indie Pro
March 11, 2010 3:50 PM
Ouch!
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Brownbagger
March 11, 2010 4:03 PM in reply to Indie Pro
Just a scratch. We can buff that right out. No problem.
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Indie Pro
March 11, 2010 4:07 PM in reply to Brownbagger
I like your attitude!
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Brownbagger
March 11, 2010 4:09 PM in reply to Indie Pro
I've polished that too. Kind regards.
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JorgeOrwell
March 11, 2010 7:02 PM in reply to Brownbagger
Smooth Browny! You rock!
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readerOfTeaLeaves
March 11, 2010 3:51 PM
Someone will try to make this a tempest in a teapot.
Lemme guess... that 'someone' would most likely be Mitchie McConnell.
Popcorn, please... with extra butter ;-))
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mans_best_friend
March 11, 2010 3:51 PM
The House had better worry about getting their own ducks in a row.
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JorgeOrwell
March 11, 2010 7:05 PM in reply to mans_best_friend
Yeah, that's what happens when you set the bar higher. Senate could take a leaf out of that book, rather than selling out their constituents to the corporatists.
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rbeats
March 11, 2010 4:00 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/08/us/rules-keeper-is-dismissed-by-senate-official-says.html?pagewanted=1
That is an article from may 8th 2001 NYT about the Republicans firing the the Senate's parliamentarian, Robert B. Dove, because he would not rule the way they wanted on reconciliation.
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JanglerNPL
March 11, 2010 4:02 PM in reply to rbeats
Yes, and I hope you were outraged at it at the time. I certainly hope you aren't advocating that the Democrats follow suit, especially when there's a way to get this done without any such strong-arm tactics.
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Indie Pro
March 11, 2010 4:04 PM in reply to JanglerNPL
this'll only get done through strong arm tactics. Ping-ponging the senate bill is a strong arm tactic.
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JanglerNPL
March 11, 2010 4:07 PM in reply to Indie Pro
Um, what? If you mean the House passing the Senate bill as is, then no, it's not. I honestly have no idea how you came up with that characterization...I mean, if "the Senate passes a bill, the House passes the same bill, the President signs it" is strong-arm, then I'd love to hear what you consider to be orthodox procedure.
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Indie Pro
March 11, 2010 4:12 PM in reply to JanglerNPL
yes, because the House, which represents people, want to have a say in the legislation, and they should, that's how our system is setup.
The two bills, the house and the senate, should go to conference. But we can't do that.
Many in the House are unhappy with the Senate bill, it is far more conseravtive and weak than their bill. For the House to ping pong the Senate bill, Pelosi would have to strong arm her memebers.
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JanglerNPL
March 11, 2010 4:20 PM in reply to Indie Pro
I believe we're talking past each other. I'm saying firing a parliamentarian would be a strong-arm tactic in the sense that it's sort of "dirty pool", rules-wise. My preferred course of action would not. I doubt any bill, avec reconcilation fix or sans, would get through the House without some jawboning by Pelosi...in fact, I'd be surprised if the *original* House bill was passed without a bit of cajoling/strong-arming/whatever you want to call it.
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Indie Pro
March 11, 2010 4:22 PM in reply to JanglerNPL
perhaps we are. But for the record, I'd can the guy.
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mans_best_friend
March 11, 2010 4:26 PM in reply to Indie Pro
The parliamentarian is right. You can't amend a law that doesn't exist. But can him anyway because we want what we want and it doesn't matter if he's right or not.
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Indie Pro
March 11, 2010 4:28 PM in reply to mans_best_friend
well, I guess this is the end of the road.
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mans_best_friend
March 11, 2010 4:34 PM in reply to Indie Pro
Hardly. The House is free to pass the sidecar amendment first. Introduce it to the Senate Democratic caucus and get public commitments from at least 50 Senators to vote for it. The rest is easy.
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Indie Pro
March 11, 2010 4:36 PM in reply to mans_best_friend
atleast you sound confident. I like that.
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mans_best_friend
March 11, 2010 5:14 PM in reply to Indie Pro
I think they all realize that they can't let this fail. Up until now it's been a game of chicken to try to wring as many concessions as possible, but eventually they'll corral enough votes and pass the damn thing. Everyone realizes that if it crashes and burns they all go with it.
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Indie Pro
March 11, 2010 5:18 PM in reply to mans_best_friend
maybe the Senate bill isn't as toxic as Van Hollen once said. Maybe all the backroom deals, etc. etc.
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mans_best_friend
March 11, 2010 5:49 PM in reply to Indie Pro
Most of these things aren't as good as their proponents claim, nor as bad as their opponents insist. It's not as good as I'd hoped for initially, but it's as good as they're going to get right now. Big changes almost never come in one leap. Half measures are the rule rather than the exception.
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VictorLH
March 11, 2010 4:42 PM in reply to JanglerNPL
Anytime the Democrats can kick the GOP in the balls they should do it. But, in this case the ruling makes sense, how can a bill be amended if it hasn't been signed into law by the president.
Frankly, I'm not impressed by this article, it is just TPM stirring up people. I thought the plan was to pass the Senate Bill, whihc Obama would sign right away and then the House sends the reconsiliation bill to the SEnate and they pass that through reconciliation. No problem from what I can see.
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ogliberal
March 11, 2010 4:14 PM in reply to rbeats
I would oppose this with every liberal bone in my body. That's scumbag Delay/Lott tactics...Dems don't need to stoop that low. Pass the Senate bill then quickly pass the reconciliation fix. House and Senate Dems have to stop hating each other (and yes, I know there is good reason for the House Dems not to trust their colleagues in the other chamber) and start acting like they belong to the same party. They can pass the thing - and reconciliation - and have a fighting chance in November or they can kill it and then talk about how great it is to be back in the minority (or back home) when January 2011 rolls around.
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JorgeOrwell
March 11, 2010 7:53 PM in reply to ogliberal
How is a majority vote "stooping"? The Senate was created to give the monied classes more power over the majority poorer classes. The very existence of the institution accomplishes this. Remember the filibuster rule wasn't even introduced until 1917.
It simply subverts the middle and poor classes even more. It should be abolished, PERIOD.
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ogliberal
March 12, 2010 9:44 AM in reply to JorgeOrwell
I am not talking about reconciliation. I'm 100% behind reconciliation and some sort of filibuster reform. (I don't think it should be abolished completely. For example, when you're appointing somebody to a lifetime seat on the federal bench, I think a supermajority vote may be valid and needed) What I'm against and what I think would be "stooping" is firing the parliamentarian so that the Dems can try to pass the reconciliation fix before the House passes the full Senate bill. The Dems should have enough courage to be able to do it in the order the parliamentarian is saying it needs to be done. The parliamentarian has not yet said that the Dems can't push through the hcr fixes via reconciliation and I don't think he will.
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JorgeOrwell
March 12, 2010 12:14 PM in reply to ogliberal
They won't fire him. for one, they are complete pussies. And two, he is giving them the cover they need to kill the PO as they have always wanted to do.
Unfortunately, it won't work. The American public doesn't do nuance. They will simply see, come this November, they still don't have jobs or health insurance and they will fire any incumbent in their path.
As I've said many times, the Senators win both ways. They go away to some lifetime appointment at a lobbying firm and live the rest of their days in luxury.
Great system they've set up for themselves, eh?
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Brownbagger
March 11, 2010 4:06 PM
Not news. All part of the game. Get a grip.
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blaneyboy
March 12, 2010 3:04 AM in reply to Brownbagger
Agree. It's been plain for weeks that the Senate bill had to be passed first and then a reconciliation bill.
I don't see anything new in this or anything that Democrats were not anticipating -- or for that matter, anything that complicates what has to be done to get health care reform enacted.
Day 1, House passes Senate bill sends it to President for signature.
Day 2, Senate passes Reconciliation, followed immediately by House and sends it to President for signature.
Not that complicated. Congress can act might damned fast when it has to -- and here's a case where it has to.
Oh, House Democrats can't trust Senate? Sure, they'll need a lot of reassurance and liberal House Democrats have probably been posturing about it, but one indication of what a slimy lie that is is that it's the line McConnell's been peddling all week.
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ogliberal
March 11, 2010 4:10 PM
To be honest, this is the way it should be done. I think doing reconciliation first to fix a bill that isn't law just wouldn't smell right to folks, even if you could find a parliamentarian to say it's OK.
As Judd Gregg admited, if this gets to the point where the fight is over passing reconciliation after the Senate bill has been passed by the House, it's already game over. The GOP can yell and scream all they want after that but you are not going to find enough Dems to defect on a fix that removes the Nelson and Landrieu deals and that increases subsidies. Not gonna happen. The trick now is convincing the shaky House members that the Senate isn't going to screw them over (it's the Senate's job to do this) and to somehow smack the Stupak-crew back into reality. (reconciliation was never going to make Stupak happy because it can't be used for the stuff he wants)
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mans_best_friend
March 11, 2010 4:22 PM in reply to ogliberal
If you listen to the Republican's threats, it's clear they're aimed squarely at progressive House members to try to convince them that the sidecar amendments won't pass so they shouldn't vote for the Senate bill. There's simply nothing the Senate Dems can do to convince the House members that they'll pass it. At some point they have to make a leap of faith because the alternative is not too pretty.
I doubt there's anything Pelosi can do to get Stupak on board. The changes he wants can't be passed through reconciliation and he knows it. It looks more like posturing on Stupak's part than anything else. The only way forward is to convince enough of the progressives to get on board so Stupak becomes irrelevant.
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wbgonne
March 11, 2010 9:49 PM in reply to mans_best_friend
Remarkable. It is ALWAYS the fault of Progressives. Progressives are ALWAYS the problem. Abortion-fetishists, Republicrats, well that's just how they are. I honestly think this site is overrun with health insurance sock puppets. And they are coming out of the woodwork now that things are coming to a head.
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agio
March 11, 2010 4:19 PM
I think they are more worried that the Senate simply won't, rather than won't be able to.
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darkrhyme
March 11, 2010 4:30 PM
I'm getting a little sick and tired of these unelected officials running the show.
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masanf
March 11, 2010 6:29 PM in reply to darkrhyme
Yeah, how dare these unelected officials insist that the actual rules be followed? How dare they!!!
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RhodaA
March 11, 2010 4:34 PM
Total BS - GOP scare tactic.
Can get around this by the "Self-Executing Rule" :
"Under this scenario, the Senate bill would be automatically attached to the reconciliation package, if the House passes reconciliation. In other words, Bill A would just become part of Bill B if the House passes Bill B, and the Senate could then vote on a reconciliation package before sending it to the president. This allows House members to approve the broader measure without actually voting on it.
The same aides who confirmed this process was under discussion quickly noted that party leaders have not yet arrived at a final decision, so it's far from a done deal -- a point House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) made repeatedly Tuesday during his weekly exchange with reporters.
This would allow them to deal with the Senate bill without forcing their members to go on record in support of unpopular items, like the now-infamous Cornhusker Kickback or the so-called Louisiana Purchase, that could be used against them on the campaign trail in the fall.
According to industry lobbyists, the House may take the additional step of further amending the rule to guard against another nightmare scenario -- the Senate's failure to enact a package of fixes through the now-familiar reconciliation process. House leaders could add a caveat to the rule that the Senate bill can only be signed into law if the Senate also passes the fixes. "
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RhodaA
March 11, 2010 4:36 PM in reply to RhodaA
P.S. TPM know about this rule and shouldn't scare its readers.
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Darrius
March 11, 2010 7:29 PM in reply to RhodaA
If the Senate bill got attached to a reconciliation bill then wouldn't it cause the bill the fail the reconciliation test in the Senate?
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Maritza
March 11, 2010 4:35 PM
Wasn't that ALWAYS the case?
The House on the same day votes the Senate bill and the reconciliation package. Then Obama signs it into law. The following day the Senate takes up the reconciliation package and marks it up in the Budget committee. 4 days later they start to vote on it on reconciliation. The Republicans offer a bunch of amendments and they are thrown out and finally Biden says ENOUGH and cuts the debate and the package is passed. Obama then signs that package into law.
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RhodaA
March 11, 2010 4:37 PM in reply to Maritza
Exactly. See above - the Self-Executing Rule.
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barbara63
March 11, 2010 5:30 PM
This is TPM's latest installment in their "Is This The Thing That Will Derail HCR" series.
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ru4862
March 11, 2010 6:20 PM in reply to barbara63
Right lol... C'monm? Anonymous Resluglican source?
STOP THE PRESS!!! Pres. Obama must sign a letter of consent.
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rlkinny
March 11, 2010 6:13 PM
McConnell is just trying to make the Democratic Reps nervous. The Senate Parliamentarian hasn't ruled on this yet, and all objective reviews of the rules indicate it is possible to do without the President first signing it into law. Even if the Parliamentarian ruled against it, that shouldn't stop the progress. The President could always sign the current bill into law with a Signing Statement about the degree to which some of the problem areas of the bill (Cornhusker an Louisiana agreements) will be enforced.
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masanf
March 11, 2010 6:35 PM in reply to rlkinny
"The Senate Parliamentarian hasn't ruled on this yet, and all objective reviews of the rules indicate it is possible to do without the President first signing it into law."
Uh, I guess you must have missed the part about the Senate Parliamentarian stating that the House has to go first. It is easy to miss. I mean, there is only an entire article devoted to it directly above your comment. Furthermore, Kent Conrad told the rest of the Democrats that the parliamentarian had in fact ruled that the House must go first.
From the Hill:
Sen. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, told colleagues about the RULING Thursday afternoon, according to a Democratic source familiar with the meeting" (emphasis mine).
And from the same article:
"The RULING is a blow to Democrats who planned for Obama to sign in quick succession the Senate version of healthcare reform legislation and a companion measure with changes requested by House lawmakers."
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/86297-senate-parliamentarian-raises-the-bar-for-passing-healthcare-reform
Explain to me again how this is just Mitch McConnell trying to scare people. And the notion that ALL objective reviews have stated the Dems could pass the fixes first is complete bullshit. The notion that no one said otherwise is just plain hilarious. And even if they did, get back to me when the speculation of a pundit means more than a ruling of the Parliamentarian.
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rlkinny
March 11, 2010 6:57 PM in reply to masanf
You can check out the explanation here -- this is second hand reporting -- there is no statement from the Parliamentarian.http://www.dailykos.com/
The Signing Statement alternative still exists, also.
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masanf
March 11, 2010 6:39 PM in reply to rlkinny
"The President could always sign the current bill into law with a Signing Statement about the degree to which some of the problem areas of the bill (Cornhusker an Louisiana agreements) will be enforced."
YOu mean the signing statements the left and Obama were so vehemently against during the Bush years? Those signing statements? Good luck getting the public to go along with such a pathetic dodge.
This whole episode is pathetic. The bill is so shitty, that the House Dems don't even want to pass it without the fixes going first and now that the Parliamentarian has told them to go pound salt, people are actually mentioning signing statements. Yeah, it must be an awesome bill allright.
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rlkinny
March 11, 2010 7:00 PM in reply to masanf
Obama has already used a Signing Statement on the war spending bill. Like it or not, Signing Statements are here to stay -- at least until the Senate cleans up its arcane rules.
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billybam
March 11, 2010 6:48 PM
An aide to McConnell said this? Then I don't believe it. When proved untrue, McConnell can just hide behind the 'unnamed source'. If it was really true, Mitch would have picked up the red FOXphone and said "see you downstairs in 10 minutes."
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Vincent F
March 11, 2010 6:53 PM
If senior GOP aides said it, it must be true. If they think the bill sucks so bad and the Dems will get clobbered for passing crappy legislation, they should allow an upperdown vote, vote against it, and campaign on it in November... right?
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JorgeOrwell
March 11, 2010 7:57 PM in reply to Vincent F
YOU SAID IT! Get that public option in there and people enrolled by this summer and let the chips fall where they may.
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ottis
March 11, 2010 8:02 PM
McConnell is only trying to save the Democrats from going down in flames for passing such a God awful bill that he keeps saying the people don't want. I never realized he was such a caring person. Thank you Mitch.
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Steaming Pile
March 11, 2010 9:41 PM
I told you all. It doesn't matter for beans what the FORMER Senate Parliamentarian says. The only opinion that matters is that of the person currently holding the job.
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juke R
March 11, 2010 10:44 PM
It's time for Biden to put his foot down. He strengthened the Dems ticket in 2008 because it was well known that he was no shrinking violet. I so remember when he said, referring to an issue in the Iraq war, "And don't ask Rumsfeld. Because he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about." lol
It's time to unleash the man and let him overrule the parliamentarian if need be. Nobody thinks for a second, that Bush-Cheney wouldn't have done the same thing. It's already OK by the rules for him to do so.
Come Nov. the only people who are going to care about how this thing got passed are the same people who would never vote for a Democrat anyway. People want to vote for winners. The worst thing the Dems could do (for themselves)is to appear to be incapable of winning.
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rhytonen
March 12, 2010 12:20 AM
"Assuming the ruling is made official, it could be overturned by the Senate chair--likely Vice President Joe Biden--but there's little-to-no precedent for such a maneuver"
- but there IS strong constitutional precedent against "legislative entrenchment" (the prohibition against changing the rule, in this case rule XXII.) This is also known as the "constitutional," or "Nuclear" option.
And it could (and probably should) have been used to get an even better bill - changes with NO Budgetary requirement as exists in the Reconciliation process, i.e., HR676 as the Public Option. (just don't tell Bart Stupak. ;)
"Dirty pool," Repugs would claim? Sure.
But it should be pointed out that this "Nuclear Option" was THEIR invention, even though it was never really used except as a threat. Ya still gotta love the irony....
There's a difference though. When they threatened the Dem minority with it, the Dems hadn't "cried wolf too many times" by already employing MAXIMUM parliamentary obstructionism, as today's Repugs have over the past year. Ao the Dems were able to threaten MAXIMUM obstructionism if they tried it (and they didn't. But now, we should.)
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Allen
March 12, 2010 4:04 AM
What the Republicans claim to have been told is contradicted by a written report to Congress prepared last year by the Congressional Research Service. See The Budget Reconciliation Process:
The Senate's "Byrd Rule", http://budget.house.gov/crs-reports/RL30862.pdf, p. 4-5:
"The Byrd rule is a relatively complex rule that applies to two types of reconciliation measures considered pursuant to Section 310 of the CBA of 1974 -- reconciliation bills and reconciliation resolutions. (A reconciliation resolution could be used to make changes in legislation that had passed the House and Senate but had not yet been enrolled and sent to the President. The practice of the House and Senate has been to consider only reconciliation bills.)"
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June 13, 2010 4:13 AM
Yes, because the House, which represents people, want to have a say in the legislation, and they should, that's how our system is setup.
The two bills, the house and the senate, should go to conference. But we can't do that.
Many in the House are unhappy with the Senate bill, it is far more conseravtive and weak than their bill. For the House to ping pong the Senate bill, Pelosi would have to strong arm her memebers.
m65 kamagra
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