
The battle for health care reform brought out both the best and the worst in the tea party movement, according to activists. On the plus side, the conservative insurgency showed it could dominate the political dialogue and influence decision-making on both sides of the aisle. Activists say that shows tea partiers are becoming wiser and more seasoned politically.
But the health care debate also exposed rifts and deep vulnerabilities with in the tea party movement that could stop its path toward mainstream acceptance. Violent rhetoric and racial overtones in protests spilled over into actual death threats, property damage and the hurling of slurs. Whether or not the suspects in those incidents are actually tea partiers, movement leaders seem worried that they play into progressive arguments that the tea parties are just a new wrapping on right-wing extremism.
Now, with the movement's annual Tax Day Tea Party approaching, tea parties are actively trying to show that the sterotypes aren't true -- one more aware of the limelight shining on it.
For an example of the shifts in tea party rhetoric, a good place to start is Colorado. Rep. Betsy Markey (D) remains a prime tea party target after she switched her no vote on the House health reform bill to a yes on the final reform package. Tea partiers promise to boot her from office for the vote, and the rhetoric against her from the movement before the vote was as tough there as it has been anywhere else.
But after Markey received threats of violence from angry anti-reformers, tea partiers in the state rushed to condemn the attacks and distance themselves from what they would call fringe elements on the right.
"Although it does not appear that these threats stemmed from those within Colorado's Tea Party movement," Northern Colorado Tea Party leader Lesley Hollywood told KDVR-TV, "organizers and members alike are firmly denouncing any acts of intimidation or threat."
Another tea partier told the station that her group was shifting is focus away from attacking Markey (and fellow tea party target, Democratic Rep. John Salazar), choosing instead to focus on political organizing.
"You will see that we are focused on being positive and productive," 9.12 Colorado Coalition deader Lu Busse told KDVR. Busse said the 9.12 group is "is encouraging activists to say thank you to members of Congress who voted against health care reform" with donations rather than attack those who vote for it.
That kind of small-dollar political organizing is the stuff political influence is made of. And that's the direction tea parties are headed in, according to local leaders. The way to get there, they say, is to cleanse themselves of the movement's darker elements.
Rockford, IL tea party organizer David Hale, told the Chicago Tribune "he does not want to stifle the movement's individual nature but' would challenge participants who call [President] Obama a 'Nazi' or use any racial slurs." (When asked by the Tribune what he thinks of Obama, Hale called him "a pure socialist and on the verge of communism.")
Hale said he wants the movement to "stay raw." Other tea partiers say that the only way to preserve the original goals of the movement is to make it clear that violence and extremism have no place in the tea parties.
After the first threats were reported against Democratic members of Congress after the health care vote, it wasn't the Republican party that condemned them first (in fact, GOP leaders refused to). Instead the first opponents to the bill to distance themselves from the rhetoric were the Florida tea partiers.
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Tax Day Tea Party organizer Tim McClellan told me he'll be the first to admit that there are "a few loose screws" in the movement, but said that as a local leader he's paying trying his best to keep the few bad (in this case violently bad) apples from messing up the bunch. He said that tea partiers were concerned about being unfairly painted as a violent movement in the wake of the health care debate, and he said organizers like him are taking active steps to make sure that doesn't happen.
"If I find any of them in the groups I'm involved in, I'll pack them up in the first police car and ship them out," McClellan told me. "There's no room for it."
He said that that violent anti-reform activists weren't all from the tea parties, but he acknowledged that some were. He said that some of the rage was understandable, even though he condemned it.
"There's a lot of pent up hostility," McClellan said. "The tea parties have always been peaceful, until the health care bill got passed. That was a whole year before anything happened."
McClellan said that tea partiers are a bit wiser this year than they were the last April 15, when, he said, most in the movement "had just gotten up off the couch" after the long election. Most were political neophytes then, he said. But now, with the 2010 elections looming, McClellan told me that the tea party movement was much "politically educated" and focused on getting things changed rather than just yelling about the status quo.
"They've learned quite a bit over the the past year," he told me. He said that groups are shifting their attention to offering proactive solutions like fundraising and grass roots activism for the candidates they like (and, more specifically, going around the establishment GOP party organization, which McClellan said was trying to tell Republicans who to vote for.)
He said he expects more people to turn out at the April 15 protests around the country than ever before. Despite all the changes to rhetoric and self-awareness, McClellan said the core beliefs of the tea party haven't changed.
"It's a pretty simple concept," he told me. "The people we elect to office should listen to us."
Lono65
April 12, 2010 11:31 AM
So, the Teabaggers are now going to become...GASP!..."community organizers"?
Oh my.
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Scottsdalian
April 12, 2010 12:02 PM in reply to Lono65
The little acorn is sprouting!
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AhTrini1
April 12, 2010 4:48 PM in reply to Lono65
LMAO
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mcc
April 12, 2010 11:32 AM
So it's still the case that there are multiple completely independent "tea party" networks, right? As long as that's true it seems difficult for any one tea party group to do image rehabilitation. If one group is trying to be nice and polite but the other one is still organizing incoherent mobs that spit on Congresspeople, who speaks for the movement?
So this Colorado group is "firmly denouncing any acts of intimidation or threat". Okay, so that's nice, and actually a little unique for a tea party aligned group, but it's also a bit abstract and I'm not sure it's enough in this case. If we were just talking about "conservative" groups then it might be sufficient to say, well, this conservative group is kind of extreme and crazy, this conservative group isn't and denounces extreme craziness, that should be enough. But in this case both the CO group and the crazy groups are trying to present themselves as part of the "tea party", a single unified movement or decentralized organization. If that's the case then it really seems more like any Tea Party group speaks for any other, and if you want to say the Tea Party isn't about screaming and spitting on Congresspeople, then I have to ask back what it is you're trying to do about the other Tea Party groups that are screaming and spitting on Congresspeople?
If you don't have a really good answer to that question then you're sort of in the same situation as the mainline Republicans, which is to say you're ultimately benefiting from the ugly energy the tea parties have whipped up nationwide but at the same time trying to position yourself as if you don't have any responsibility for it.
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storm
April 12, 2010 11:52 AM in reply to mcc
time to break out the monty python and the liberation front of judea vs the judean liberation front.
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Davran
April 12, 2010 12:47 PM in reply to storm
"I thought we were the Popular Front?"
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JEP07
April 12, 2010 4:19 PM in reply to Davran
"WERE" in all caps...
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Steaming Pile
April 13, 2010 9:35 AM in reply to Davran
The Popular Front? He's over there.
/SPLITTER!!!!
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Riesz Fischer
April 12, 2010 11:34 AM
Yeah, they were peaceful for a whole year until the Democrats passed Romney's health reform bill. Then they just couldn't hold in their pent up rage any longer. That proves it was the Dems' fault.
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CityGuy
April 12, 2010 12:04 PM in reply to Riesz Fischer
Shorter Teanut message: We're really not racist sore-losers. Good luck with that re-branding!
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fla_kracker
April 12, 2010 12:59 PM in reply to Riesz Fischer
I too witnessed a lot of that non-violent action at the August break town hall meetings. These are angry old people seeded with crazies.
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davcbr
April 12, 2010 12:59 PM in reply to Riesz Fischer
When you say that the rage is understandable, you reveal yourself to be pretty much OK with it. Despite any disclaimers otherwise.You cannot "sympathize" and "condemn" at the same time. The rage IS the violence.
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Bob White
April 12, 2010 3:18 PM in reply to davcbr
Rage does not equal violence. At least it does not for sane people who channel their rage into non-violent action. Surely, the plight of African Americans before the Civil Rights Act was passed gave them good reason to be enraged. Yet, it was MLK Jr's non-violent protests that gripped the country and changed history, despite the violent reaction (dogs & water hoses) that were aimed at them in reaction.
The tea party activists are just as enraged as civil rights activists, albeit for different reasons. And they are nearly universally non-violent. They know they must win at the ballot box. And, of course, striving to win at the ballot box is a right we all enjoy.
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 6:00 PM in reply to Bob White
The teabaggers are enraged -- for bogus "resons" that don't in reality exist.
1. The HCR Act they oppose is virtually identical to the 1993-94 REPUBLICAN alternative to the Clinton proposal.
2. The underlying model was authored by REPUBLICAN Romney.
So stop defending the rage of the uninformed, and their being uninformed.
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Kitcha
April 14, 2010 2:53 PM in reply to Bob White
Well-put. /cosign
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Helpcomputer
April 12, 2010 2:33 PM in reply to Riesz Fischer
They weren't peaceful a year ago. They were carrying guns to townhall meetings, then shouting down the debate inside.
And then when some Democratic congressmen cancelled some town halls because of the intimidation (ironically proving that right-wing intimidation tactics still work) and disruptions, Republicans jumped on them as "subverting the will of the people"
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 5:56 PM in reply to Riesz Fischer
He said that some of the rage was understandable, even though he condemned it.
_____
To say it's understandable is to excuse and encourage it.
Even while "condemning" it . . . after the fact.
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BobFred2
April 12, 2010 11:36 AM
"the conservative insurgency showed it could dominate the political dialogue and influence decision-making on both sides of the aisle."????
IF that is the case the ONLY reason they "dominate the political dialogue" is because the broadcast media is allowing this tiny bunch of hypocritical whiners a disproportionate voice in said "dialogue". And what kind of "dialogue" is it when the only voices you hear are the paranoid lunatics among us?
Are anti-war protesters, a much larger group than tea-baggers, given this kind of coverage? Of course not.
Mindless blather from the delusional right only has credence in this culture because the broadcast media has determined that it is excellent "entertainment".
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draa
April 12, 2010 11:59 AM in reply to BobFred2
That, and the fact that most of the MSM is also controlled by white Republicans who push their agenda because it benefits then as well.
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Luke
April 12, 2010 12:17 PM in reply to BobFred2
Right on! I went to an anti-war rally in January '07 that stretched from the Capitol steps about 3/4's of the way to the Washington Monument, which was virtually ignored by both the government and the media, yet the tea party people didn't even make it from the steps to the street with their crowd, and the government nearly capitulated like it was Saigon '75, or something.
There truly must have been hundreds of thousands of anti-war people, but it was reported as, "tens of thousands." The tea party crowd was also reported as, "tens of thousands," but the pictures make it look more like, "dozens."
p.s., the Democrats are in on it, too. There is no sanctuary. All forms of government become a scam within about two or three years (minutes). The tea party people are right in the sense that we do need a radical reshaping of our non-representative, corporate owned, violence machine (government). Senators in particular should stop even using their individual names and simply be addressed as Senator Boeing, Senator Lockheed-Martin, Senator Monsanto, etc...
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Bob White
April 12, 2010 3:20 PM in reply to BobFred2
Anti-war protesters gathered in large groups, but never as large as the tea party rallies.
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 6:08 PM in reply to Bob White
Horse.shit. The teabaggers a far-right lunatic fringe. The relaity of math dictates that fringe is a tiny minority.
The teabaggers began when FOX orgnized them as a "news" event to "report".
They have been backed by corporate front groups and money.
Trolls who lie in effort to make the dipshit teabaggers appear relevant won't change those facts. They are people who can't remember whether they voted before, let alone when they last paid atttntion enough to do so. The bottom line is that they are a tiny pissed-off-by-nonsense-and-lies-and-red-herrings faction of the terminally uninformed.
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icebluee67@aol.com
April 12, 2010 11:18 PM in reply to JNagarya
YOU'RE WAY, WAY OFF BUD !! FOX HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WITH ORGANIZING THE TEA PARTIES !! WE ARE PATRIOT AMERICANS WHO ARE FED UP WITH TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION !!! YOU SEE, HISTORY HAS REPEATED ITSELF !!!
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JNagarya
April 13, 2010 1:14 AM in reply to icebluee67@aol.com
You're a loud-mouthed screamer who has no knowledge of the actual history of the US, and none of the Constitution.
Clue:
The "no taxation without representation" PROPAGANDA occurred during 1760s. The beginning of the "revolution" is marked by many as being April 19, 1775.
And while that slogan was being slung, Benjamin Franklin was the Colonies' representative in Parliament.
Shut the fuck up, sit your ass down, and READ the Constitution for the first time in your fucking life. And when you do, asshole, take particular notice of THIS:
US Con. Art. I., S. 8, C. 15. The Congress shall have Power To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, [and] SUPPRESS INSURRECTIONS.
And when that is in effect, the Commander-in-Chief of the Militia is the President of the United States.
Bottom line, upchuck: there is no "right" to "defend against" Constitution and rule of law.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." -- Dr. Samuel Johnson.
But according to Ambrose Bierce, it is the FIRST refuge.
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Steaming Pile
April 13, 2010 9:38 AM in reply to icebluee67@aol.com
Or he's just playing one for comic effect.
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mjeffn
April 13, 2010 5:51 PM in reply to icebluee67@aol.com
quit shouting. save your breath for the fox cameras and microphones.
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worthy9
April 12, 2010 8:36 PM in reply to Bob White
Actually that's completely untrue. Individual anti-war protests garnered hundreds of thousands at a time in the US and sometimes over a million or two in Europe. The TEA Party rallies can't touch that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War
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bobosqueakers
April 12, 2010 11:38 AM
this is like asking an 8 yr old to be more mature while grandma visits...
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Knothead Jake
April 12, 2010 11:46 AM
Let's see, it's been a week since the doofus threatening Pelosi got busted . It's been two weeks since Hutaree got busted. The militias are planning on strapping on weapons to march on April 15. 3 states forgot that slavery ever happened and are celebrating Racism Month. Yeah things are looking up. I guess you can teach, ignorant, racist, gun toting, homophobic, hydrocephelus headed, corn nut teeth goobers new tricks.
On second thought...
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mcc
April 12, 2010 11:52 AM in reply to Knothead Jake
See but any tea partier that does something embarrassing wasn't a real tea partier.
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twirling fartknocker
April 12, 2010 2:08 PM in reply to mcc
yessiree
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George C
April 12, 2010 11:47 AM
So the new narrative is, "don't announce when you intimidate, threaten, and curse" your political opponents?
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Kuro
April 12, 2010 11:47 AM
I'm so damn sick of the Tea Party! They are Right Wing Wackos! These guys are just plain wrong, and the media keeps egging them on.I'm just so mad to see that the public is being force fed this Teabagger crap. These people are dangerous! They are anti-gay, pro-war, anti-muslim, anti-darwinism, anti-science, anti-green jobs, pro-fossil fuel, pro-Palin, I could go on for days here. These people are a danger to society, they seek to bring into the past. They deny science and loathe people with higher education. Having a Harvard degree is a liability in the Teabagger bunch. How can anyone take these people seious? Since when was it not ok to tell someone: sorry but you are wrong.
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johnny b
April 12, 2010 1:20 PM in reply to Kuro
Lefties are so angry that their incessant, never ending parades of platitudes aren't getting the attention that they deserve, while these "hateful, racist, homophobic, women hating, Islamophobic, gun toting, hillbilly, puppy eating Teabaggers" are.
Did you ever stop and think that the reason people aren't receptive to your ideas are because they don't like them? I can't stand the lefty point of view. It irks me. It irritates me. I've seen it, I've lived with it, and I have yet to meet a lefty that isn't looking at the world through a fantasy lens. I have yet to hear of a lefty policy that dovetails with our founding principles and this country's version of common sense.
The reason these "teabaggers" (as you all ignobly refer to them) are getting so much attention is because it is exciting to see regular middle class people finally stand up to big government. If you think it is partisan you are wrong. Look at the Republican races right now. Rinos are getting tossed out. New, fresh, constitutional conservatives are being ushered in. If they don't hold up to their end of the bargain they'll be tossed out as well.
Keep name calling though, it just makes you look bad and draws more people to the TEA parties. It is strengthening the movement. If you nerds showed up in support all dressed up in your Che Guevara shirts and bandana masks the movement would probably disband just to avoid being seen with you.
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mjeffn
April 12, 2010 2:31 PM in reply to johnny b
So now their goal is to be closeted teabagging bigots. Ask a gay person if they could go back into the closet after coming out. Sorry to the frothy mouthed goon leader but, faux kinder gentler won't work.
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Kuro
April 12, 2010 2:43 PM in reply to johnny b
It's not calling names when it's true. They are anti-gay, pro-war, anti-muslim, anti-darwinism, anti-science, anti-green jobs, pro-fossil fuel, pro-Palin, and if that bothers you, well I'm sorry but you have to deal with it. I don't want to hear the opinions of people who deny scientific fact and people that think education is a bad thing or people that promote hate towards gays. Those kind of people do not deserve to have their voices heard.
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 6:19 PM in reply to johnny b
Did you ever stop and think that the reason people aren't receptive to your ideas are because they don't like them?
_____
Did you ever stop to think?
Since when does one determine whether one likes a point of view if your only information about that view is from sources which HATE that pooint of view, therefore PREDICTABLY LIE about that point of view?
_____
I can't stand the lefty point of view. It irks me. It irritates me. I've seen it, I've lived with it, and I have yet to meet a lefty that isn't looking at the world through a fantasy lens.
_____
Typically history- and politics-illiterate tebagger nonsense. There isn;'t only one "lefty" point of view. Nor are there only two points of view -- "righty" and "lefty".
Political reality is much more nuanced than that. Call it GRAY instead of the simpleton's black-and-white.
_____
I have yet to hear of a lefty policy that dovetails with our founding principles
_____
You know nothing of those "founding principles" except as fed you by mega-corporations which you stupidly believe back the middle class against gov't. You vote against your own interests every time you dupedly swallow hate-speech from ENTERTAINERS as if it were instead reasoned analysis.
_____
and this country's version of common sense.
_____
Do you ever stop to think? You are part of a statistically-insignificant minorty of corporate dupes paid ZERO to spread their anti-middle class propaganda, while they laugh right in your face.
Pay attention:
"Common sense is much too common." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson.
"Common sense is none too common." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson.
"Common sense" is an appeal to an invisible mob which may not exist; but if it does exist has not been polled for its opinion/s.
To invoke "common sense" is not only intellectually dishonest and vacuous, and also to give the appearance that one's view is shared by that mob, it is also to engage in the "appeal to authority" fallacy.
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Bob White
April 12, 2010 3:27 PM in reply to Kuro
I am a tea party activist and I am not wacko. I am not anti-gay, pro-war, anti-muslim, anti-darwinism nor anti-science. I do oppose green jobs and support fossil fuel. You got me there. I also admire Sarah Palin (although, she is not my first choice by any means, that would be Mitch Daniels).
How am I a danger to society?
It is really not helpful to stereotype people. It is more helpful to engage us in dialog, don't you think?
"Having a Harvard degree is a liability in the Teabagger bunch."
It helped George W. Bush. I suppose you voted for him on that account, eh? :-)
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SOS ICEBERG
April 12, 2010 5:47 PM in reply to Bob White
In opposing green jobs and promoting the ostensible value of fossil fuels you're showing symptoms of a climate change denier.
How are you a danger to society? By buying into that pernicious viewpoint and contributing to the postponement of action against climate change. If you're a skeptic about that then you're denying facts and overwhelming scientific consensus. There's something beyond genocide which is the destruction of the entire ecosystem...we don't have a good name for it yet, but it's a danger to society, and more.
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 6:24 PM in reply to Bob White
George W. Bush was the beneficiary of rich white male affirmative action. He was passed becaseu not allowed to fail.
His Harvard degree was a Masters in business.
And thereafter he destroyed every corporation he ran, and then did the same with the US economy.
If you can't get the facts straight, and accept the facts for what they are, then you are without question a know-nothing teabagger who votes against his own interests in effort to feel superior to those who actually have a few clues.
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OhioMan
April 13, 2010 6:59 AM in reply to Bob White
You lost me the moment you said you "admire" $arah Palin. Sorry, but there is nothing to admire there.
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mjeffn
April 13, 2010 5:49 PM in reply to Bob White
People are a danger to society when recognize and freely admit their problems.
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reino2
April 12, 2010 11:48 AM
This is the one great chance for the Tea Party to do something useful for our country: It can stop the Tea Party.
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Bob White
April 12, 2010 3:30 PM in reply to reino2
So you believe that only people who agree with you should voice their opinions and petition their gov't? This is the very definition of tyranny.
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 6:34 PM in reply to Bob White
He didn't say that. And you present no evidence as foundation for your name-calling.
But try to poo-poo these facts:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/tea_party_gov_candidates_racist_sexually_graphic_e.php?ref=mp
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Les Ismore
April 12, 2010 11:49 AM
TeabaKKKers showed their true colors when they jumped the shark when HCR was passed. They have been exposed and now they are trying to spin themselves out of the disdain most Americans feel about these nuts.
Sorry, I ain't buying it. The KKK tried to clean up their image also at one point.
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stefsstuff
April 12, 2010 12:30 PM in reply to Les Ismore
So did the John Birch Society. Never going to happen. Their legacy is already established.
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 6:36 PM in reply to Les Ismore
"The KKK is out of style, 'cause they don't wear colored sheets." -- Dick Gregory.
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 6:37 PM in reply to Les Ismore
A poll found that more trust the IRS than trust the teabagger dupes.
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BobFred2
April 12, 2010 11:50 AM
Yes, by all means, let's listen to Tea Partiers on Tax Day when they should be asked; Has Obama raised your taxes? If they answer yes truthfully then we know who they really represent. If they are like the 90% of the country who has has their taxes cut by the stimulus bill and they still answer yes then we know that the upper 10% is playing them for fools.
Never have so few been given so much attention for such stupid reasons.
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Matt Jones
April 12, 2010 1:09 PM in reply to BobFred2
Somebody already did:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-6201911-503544.html
As expected, the modern descendants of the "Know Nothing" party do, in fact, know nothing.
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Bob White
April 12, 2010 3:38 PM in reply to BobFred2
The issue that unites tea party activists is not that their taxes are necessarily too high, but that spending is too high and that the only fiscally responsible solution to that is to raise taxes. And then taxes will be too high.
The problem with Congressional spending is that it is all gas pedal and no brake. They are apparently not even bothering to set a budget this year.
Surely you agree that public debt is astronomical and, given the imminent retirement of the baby boomers, slated to be disastrous. Tea partiers are only asking for responsible spending.
We do not hate gov't. We do not seek to disband the federal gov't. This is a distortion of our position. We only ask that the gov't do its job well and efficiently.
If you ordered a pizza and they overcharged you and screwed up the order, would you not be within your rights to ask that you be refunded the overage and get the right pie? This is not a sign that you are anti-pizza.
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ahumbleopinion
April 12, 2010 5:03 PM in reply to Bob White
Spending to stop an economic collapse into another depression is responsible spending. Virtually all other spending leading to the deficit is a result of eight years of irresponsible governing by the Bush administration. Why the vicious attacks on President Obama when virtually none of the deficit is a result of his actions? Why the refusal to work with him in addressing the deficit? As long as the Tea Party movement's primary focus is to demonize President Obama, they cannot be taken seriously about focusing on the problems that need to be solved.
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 6:44 PM in reply to Bob White
You got that propaganda from ENTERTAINER Limbaugh? Or FOX ENTERTAINMENT? Or some local hate-talk ENTERTAINER?
It seems to good to be true as an explanation because it is a pro-corporate lie. Always obey them by hating those they tell you to, for the "reasons" they make up as excuse to hate them.
Check the pedigree of the political ideology you spew:
Hitler hated, demonized, and marked for extermination, among others,
LIBERALS.
As for teabaggers being "middle class" and "finally standing up" to "big gov't": the economic foundations of the Middle Class are that "big gov't".
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MassDem
April 12, 2010 11:12 PM in reply to Bob White
So Bob, did you enlist yet?
Fed up with what they see as Washington's intrusion into their state, Oklahoma "tea party" leaders and some conservative legislators want to create a volunteer militia to defend against the federal government, the Associated Press writes.
"Is it scary? It sure is," said Al Gerhart, a tea party activist who heads the Oklahoma Constitutional Alliance. "But when do the states stop rolling over for the federal government?"
State Rep. Charles Key, a Republican representing Oklahoma City, said he believes there's a good chance that legislation could be introduced next year to authorize a militia.
A tea party leader in Tulsa, J.W. Berry, has been soliciting interest through his newsletter, urging that readers "buy more guns, more bullets."
"It's not a far-right crazy plan or anything like that," Berry said. "This would be done with the full cooperation of the state Legislature."
Explain how "more guns, more bullets" is just good ol' American political protesting? Just because some legislature OK's it, doesn't make it right.
Was that you in the Knoxville church last year?
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 11:21 PM in reply to MassDem
State Rep. Charles Key, a Republican representing Oklahoma City, said he believes there's a good chance that legislation could be introduced next year to authorize a militia.
_____
He has it right that such milita are to be UNDER the law, not "defending against" it.
He is wrong that his intents for that fake "militia" are legitimate:
US Con. Art. I., S. 8, C. 15. The Congress shall have Power To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, [and] SUPPRESS INSURRECTIONS.
There is no "right" to "defend against" the supreme Law of the Land. Amazing how these assholes constantly jabber about "restoring" the Constitution, but all their "reasons" for such are ANTI-Constitutional.
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RHERSH12
April 12, 2010 11:51 AM
"Racial overtones?" I'd say it's the main theme for a lot of them and politics is merely a minor counterpoint.
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Scottsdalian
April 12, 2010 11:52 AM
McClellan said. "The tea parties have always been peaceful, until the health care bill got passed. That was a whole year before anything happened."
Timmy, let's go to the film library and review those Town Hall meetings from last August, shall we?
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Bob White
April 12, 2010 3:45 PM in reply to Scottsdalian
I was at a tea party in Tampa last August that got nat'l media attention. It was not violent. We were very loud. Most of us were incredibly surprised to find so many like-minded people come out. I remember as I approached and saw the line stretching around the block that I had no idea whether the crowd was right or left. I didn't know most of the people.
Then we started chanting and it became clear. We were 10 to 1 against the health care bill. I had some excellent conversations with the pro-health care bill supporters. They were so disheartened. I understand. It is tough to feel so outnumbered.
But the only violence at the event was when a couple of people wearing SEIU T-shirts backed a guy up in the corner and nearly ripped his shirt off. There was video of this on youtube.
So let us not mistake angry, loud activism for violence.
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 6:51 PM in reply to Bob White
Let's not pretend that efforts to intimidate, shout down ALL debate, and make and encourage death threats are not violence.
Teabaggers are the result of Republican Party recruiters scraping the bottle of the barrel for their preferred constituency: those who
1. Don't have any awareness of what's going on in politics because they've always avoided having anything to do with it.
2. Have no ethical scruples against lying.
3. Don't know the difference between facts, on one hand, and name-calling.
4. Limit their sources of information to hate-radio and FOX in the illiteratel's belief that ENTERTAINERS are instead EXPERTS in the myriad specialized fields about which they so freely comment -- and misinform.
In sum:
Teabaggers are what one gets when Republican Party recruiters scrape the bottom of the barrel.
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JDinBalt
April 12, 2010 11:55 AM
If the Dems know what is good for them, they had better darn well NOT let the Tea Partiers distance themselves fromthe racist, the homophobic, the radically violent and traitorous rhetoric. They had better make them OWN it through November.
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Bob White
April 12, 2010 3:55 PM in reply to JDinBalt
Tea party activists are not racist, violent or anti-gay. This is a calumny. It cannot be proved. There is no evidence.
Yes, there are nuts in any large group of people, but they do not typify the larger group.
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 7:04 PM in reply to Bob White
Birds of a feather. If "a" number of individual teabaggers carry obviously-racist signs, then anyone who has any self-respect does not associate with them. And yet we see them all gathered together, ultimately under the same banner.
And we know you are here to do damage control against the actual facts:
The teabaggers want "their" country "back" from what? From the MAJORITY who WON the election by electing an African-American --one of "them".
THAT is ANTI-AMERICAN -- PERIOD.
And that is teabagger: white whiners who threaten violence if they don't get their way. These are the same violent thugs -- granted, they usually get others to do the dirty work for them -- who opposed desegregation.
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 7:11 PM in reply to Bob White
No evidence? How about the portrait of President Obama with a bone in his nose?
How about the "play money" with President Obama and watermelons?
Not racist? Avoid the word "racist" by dodging into "ethnic"?
Here's abundant more evidence:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/tea_party_gov_candidates_racist_sexually_graphic_e.php?ref=mp
And he isn't merely an "individual" teabagger: he's been sending racist -- and perhaps even illegal -- emails to numerous others, many of those doubtlessly being teabaggers.
Instead of lying to the outside worl, clean up your act. But you won't do the latter, because your "act" is to pretend to be the opposite of what you are: all of the worst far-right dregs, untethered from reality.
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xargaw
April 12, 2010 12:03 PM
If you gave these people a written test to identify their grievences, would they know the facts or have any facts correct? Most live on a news diet of FOX and rightwing radio that offers constant lies and distortions. These people are angry because they have been lied to and/or are living with the results of the Bush collapse, but don't know why and who is responsible. In the GOP world view, all the good things are a result of GOP power and the bad are a result of DEM power no matter where the truth lies. The Democrats failure to push back hard against this movement puts the country in peril. We have a movement that is acting on false beliefs and no one is even attempting to educate this people. Making fun of them is not pushing back. You have to publicly and loudly call out the lies and distortions and show them where they are wrong. Discredit and expose the Becks and Hannitys and the rest. Make them feel foolish and they will fall away from the group.
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traitorjoe
April 12, 2010 12:14 PM
New slogan: "Hatred - it's not just for breakfast any more."
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Catsy
April 12, 2010 12:18 PM
This exchange right here demonstrates why this makeover will not be successful, and why simply telling your followers to be nice won't solve your violent extremism problem.
The root of the problem isn't their specific grievances, or the fact that teabagger leadership isn't reminding their membership to play nice and not make them look bad. The root of the problem is the rot that is racism, bigotry and inciteful rhetoric at the heart of the movement. You can't scare people into thinking your opponents are going to destroy the country while mouthing soothing platitudes and expect that mixed message to have any success. It's like describing the plot of a horror movie to your child before bed and then telling them not to have nightmares because it's just make-believe.
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traitorjoe
April 12, 2010 12:27 PM in reply to Catsy
Catsy, the leaders are telling the sheep to express their hateful sentiments in private. They will just use code words from now on instead of Nazi, socialist and terr'rist.
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Bob White
April 12, 2010 3:59 PM in reply to Catsy
You keep harping on the untrue racist accusation because it is so difficult to focus on the tea party's core issues:
1. Return to limited, constitutionally based gov't; cut spending.
2. Support for free market.
3. Rolling back the nanny state, return to an ethic of self-reliance.
Racism has nothing to do with these issues.
The very fact that you insist on calling tea party activists by a homophobic epithet is evidence that you have more in common with racists than they do.
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traitorjoe
April 12, 2010 4:08 PM in reply to Bob White
1. Return to limited, constitutionally based gov't; cut spending.
LIKE THE $3 TRILLION IRAQ WAR. LIKE GOING FROM THE LARGEST SURPLUS IN HISTORY TO THE LARGEST DEFICIT.
2. Support for free market.
SUCH AS REMOVING ALL REGULATIONS FOR BANKING WHICH NEARLY LED US TO A BIGGER CATASTROPHE THAN THE 1929 DEPRESSION. GUTTING REGULATIONS FOR CLEAN AIR AND WATER AND LETTING BIG OIL AND BIG COAL DESTROY THE ENVIRONMENT.
3. Rolling back the nanny state, return to an ethic of self-reliance.
THE SELF-RELIANT TAX BREAKS FOR THE DEFENSE INDUSTRY, BIG OIL AND THE TOP 1/2 OF 1% OF AMERICANS WHO REALLY NEED THE ADDITIONAL CORPORATE WELFARE.
Racism has nothing to do with these issues.
EXCEPT FOR THE N-WORD BEING USED AGAINST JOHN LEWIS ... AND PRESIDENT OBAMA. AND HISPANIC SLURS BEING USED AGAINST LATINO CONGRESSMEN. AND THE "BIRTHERS" WHO CLING TO THEIR RACIST LIES.
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 7:18 PM in reply to Bob White
These are the core values of the teabaggers:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/tea_party_gov_candidates_racist_sexually_graphic_e.php?ref=mp
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The Zug
April 12, 2010 12:25 PM
Teabaggers denouncing racism is like Comic-Con attendees denouncing comic books.
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Given Up
April 12, 2010 1:25 PM in reply to The Zug
And is about as convincing.
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blkblt
April 12, 2010 12:26 PM
They'll get all reasonable and start recognizing there can be differences in opinion and pretty soon they'll be in Politics!
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ChozenFrozen
April 12, 2010 12:36 PM
This is just the lull in the crazy until Obama fails to nominate a certified cracker named 'Cletus' to the SCOTUS. Back to the whack jobbery to follow.
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philn
April 12, 2010 12:45 PM
Become more mainstream? Uh, who thought up that ridiculous notion? Very hard to do when you cater to every jackass on the planet. Remove the KKK and you'll have about 3 members somewhere asking "where'd everyone go?"
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Hidden Oak
April 12, 2010 12:47 PM
You can reel in the crazy, but you can't fix stupid.
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nodonjuan
April 12, 2010 12:57 PM in reply to Hidden Oak
I was going to to right something along the same lines, you said it so well.
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sherifffruitfly
April 12, 2010 12:48 PM
Uh.... there *is* no teabagger without the racism.
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Big Al
April 12, 2010 12:48 PM
where are the minorities I keep hearing about? This looks like the same old crap sack bunch to me.
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kea
April 12, 2010 12:49 PM
Don't underestimate the Tea Party threat. Americans will buy anything if it's packaged properly.
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CatSea1959
April 12, 2010 12:52 PM
""It's a pretty simple concept," he told me. "The people we elect to office should listen to us.""
But... you guys didn't elect That Man to office - we did. Shouldn't he be listening to US?
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Powkat
April 12, 2010 1:07 PM in reply to CatSea1959
Exactly. Sore losers who are terrified of a president who is not a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Republican.
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traitorjoe
April 12, 2010 12:53 PM
"Ain't no party like the Nazi Party."
- Sarah "Coolio" Palin
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tomfodw
April 12, 2010 1:02 PM
"It's a pretty simple concept," he told me. "The people we elect to office should listen to us."
So, the fact that 54% of the people voted for Obama somehow doesn't mean that he should listen to them?
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 7:29 PM in reply to tomfodw
Teabaggers are typical of the vastly outnumbered far-right extremist minority. They endeavor to bluff that not only are they mainstream, but there are billunys and billyuns of them -- that they are the majority.
Then they put on their Politie Mask and lecture the world.
I call their bluff -- escially that of troll Bob White:
Quote in full, and verbatim, the language in the Constitution which
PROHIBITS we the people directing that the taxes paid by We the people be used to meet the needs of We the people.
Meanwhile, I'd love to see the Bob White corporate mouthpieces for such as the military-industrial complex be "self-reliant" WITHOUT the massive welfare they get in guaranteed taxpayer-monied gov't contracts.
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nellieh
April 12, 2010 1:15 PM
So the "TeaParty" entered Paladino into the NY Governor's race? Cooling the racist thingy?
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Dave5
April 12, 2010 1:19 PM
Obviously they're tacking to the middle and trying to appear reasonable. The GOP started that move back in January, and Fox News has been pretending to be more moderate too.
That partly started after the Roeder decision.
This is just a tactic to try to hang on to independents.
McDonnell of Va is an example of what believing in the hooey of a stealth candidate will get you. Now we know he's in favor of slavery. No Progressive or Dem should let down their guard.
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BillSoo
April 12, 2010 1:43 PM
Take away their craziness and what is left to distinguish them from the GOP?
Without that energy, they will have a tough time recruiting members and gathering for events. In the end, they will dwindle to nothing more than a PAC.
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Silence
April 12, 2010 3:23 PM in reply to BillSoo
Poll Date Sample Approve Disapprove Spread
Gallup 4/9 - 4/11 1547 A 45 48 -3
Obama's numbers don't look good. Not good at all.
Perhaps, dear leader should have been focused on the national debt, economy and jobs. Just a thought.
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BillSoo
April 12, 2010 5:52 PM in reply to Silence
From wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_approval_rating
"Obama joins the two most recent fellow Democrats (Clinton and Carter) and two recent Republicans (Reagan and Ford) in falling below 50% approval within the first year in office. While his predecessor, Republican George W. Bush, enjoyed high approval ratings throughout his first years, Bush had very low approval numbers by the end of his second term. Historical Gallup Poll approval highs and lows for each President since 1937:[11][12]"
So only the Bushes had good approval ratings after the first year. GWB of course had the country rally around him after 9/11 but he eventually ended as nearly the worst president in history. GHWB had the invasion of Panama to buoy his ratings, although it was likely the end of the cold war that did it. And in the end, he was a one term president.
So while ratings matter, what really counts is what you do while in office. And on that score, Obama has done more than most. Even if you disagree with what he has accomplished, you must admit that at least he is reaching his goals.
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Silence
April 12, 2010 3:25 PM in reply to BillSoo
That's what you folks were saying last year.
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rlkinny
April 12, 2010 2:13 PM
Hmmm. What was that saying about lipstick on a pig?
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Apphouse50
April 12, 2010 2:35 PM
Are they recruiting English teachers to proofread their signs?
My friend's husband announced that he is running as a Rethug for state rep here in Massachusetts. A bit embarrassed, he giggled at having spelled "taxes" wrong on a sign he carried to a recent Tea Party gathering. Seems there was a "k" in there and one other possible wrong letter (can't recall, I was too dumbfounded and amused at the time).
This is a guy with a masters in Public Administration from a highly reputable university.
From the sounds of it, bestiality and porn are just about all these braindead losers have left. Oh, and of course, the closet racism they will never, ever, not-in-a-million-years, be able to conceal for very long.
Can't make it up.
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Silence
April 12, 2010 3:13 PM
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 12 Apr 2010 at 07:12:37 PM GMT is:
$ 1 2 , 8 4 2 , 0 9 8 , 1 2 0 , 6 3 6 . 5 3
The estimated population of the United States is 308,181,766
so each citizen's share of this debt is $41,670.53.
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Bolshevik in Jesustan
April 12, 2010 3:33 PM in reply to Silence
how does that compare to debt previously, as adjusted for inflation? I remember that the national public debt per capita was something like $10000 in the mid 1980s; that would be 1.04^25=2.6558, so $10000 in 1985 would be approximately equal to $26558 today. Given the rampant borrow-and-spend of 4 years of Bush-the-Elected and 8 years of his son Bush-the-Twice-Unelected (which is easily verifiable through the GAO), one can surmise that the increase was due to them.
Nice try on attributing our national debt to Obama, but it's conservatives who've racked up the crushing external public debt we owe today.
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Bob White
April 12, 2010 3:53 PM in reply to Bolshevik in Jesustan
You answer your own question, "how does that compare". By your calculation, $26,558
The national debt is not entirely attributable to Obama, and Bush is unpopular with the TP activists primarily because of his refusal to control spending.
It is not fair to say that conservatives racked up the crushing debt, although it is fair to say that they helped. But it is worth noting that the deficits during the last two years of the Bush administration were the highest of his two terms and Democrats held majorities in both houses of Congress. Then, under Obama, they have tripled Bush's biggest deficit.
So it is impossible for Democrats to plausibly deny responsibility for vastly increasing an already massive, crushing debt.
Republicans bad. Democrats worse. Can we agree to move in the opposite direction? That is the plea of the tea party.
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Helpcomputer
April 12, 2010 4:46 PM in reply to Bob White
Wow, Bob. Not even close. Democrats don't come near (and have never gotten near) the Republican record for deficit spending. Reagan and Bush I both exploded the national debt in the 80's and early 90's. Mostly on defense spending (buying planes we don't need to fight an enemy that didn't exist) and tax cuts for millionaires. Then Clinton BALANCED the budget and left office with a SURPLUS. Bush II then almost immediately eliminated the surplus and added 1 trillion in debt, again mostly on tax cuts for millionaires. He then started an unnecessary, unfunded war and oversaw an economic collapse not seen since the Great Depression.
Yet in your mind, the Democrats are only slightly ahead when it comes to fiscal responsibility. Good grief.
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Bolshevik in Jesustan
April 12, 2010 5:09 PM in reply to Helpcomputer
Exactly. To add to all that, the CBO estimates that the HCR bill actually reduces net spending (which doesn't even include all the money saved by cracking down on Medicare fraud by the likes of the people at the Scooter Store®). Yet still, the GOP and the likes of the Tea Party were in opposition to the HCR bill. Why? "Dude, they're gonna kill grandma!" (thank you, Rachel Maddow) and "President Obama is a secret muslim communist socialist from Kenya… or Australia… or some place that's not here."
So basically, the GOP has torpedoed its legislative objectives to go on a quixotic crusade [sic] against ghosts of death panels and obviously forged birth certificates. Meanwhile, all the money that's supposed to go to electing candidates is being spent at faux-lesbian bondage-themed strip bars and buying Caribou Barbie and family a new wardrobe. Sounds to me like the GOP is going nova, and the Tea Party is the latent racist militia element of the party "going rogue" on the rest of them.
I think the greater question is, "Does the Democratic Party, in order to prevent a greater evil from supplanting the GOP, help them get organized again?" Remember that most fascist movements started out of chaos like this.
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mcc
April 12, 2010 5:56 PM in reply to Bob White
Somehow I suspect if you wandered around at a tea party rally you'd have a darn hard time finding someone who didn't vote for Bush in 2004. But now Bush is embarrassing, so let's pretend we never liked the guy in the first place...
The "Tea Party" really depends on people having short memories.
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 7:38 PM in reply to Bob White
One wonders why you pretenders aren't seen as college edjumakated. I think it's the single-wide that gives it away:
Social security recipient retirees are given a cup of coffee, a donut, and a free bus ride to the nearest corporate-organized "Tea Party" protest so they can yell shit which is meaningless outside the corporate hate-radio/FOX-invented delusion they laughingly call reality.
"Some say" is the corporate name for person or persons who don't exist.
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Bolshevik in Jesustan
April 12, 2010 3:20 PM
if you think that the game has changed since "health care reform" was passed, you're sadly mistaken. The GOPs strategy has been, for the last several years, to not change the message but just turn the volume up to 11 (thanks to Keith Olbermann for articulating this in movie reference terms).
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spktruth200
April 12, 2010 3:48 PM
Sorry, the Teabaggers already showed the people with some knowledge, they have none. No history, only histronics! No facts, only deceptions they "heard" from the wingnuts. But, we have the Coffee Party USA, if you havent joined up, please do. Actually they have an online survey so you can tell them what issues you want to discuss, and changes you want made. Thats democracy in action. Go to CoffeePartyUSA....right now and make your selections. The survey ends at 12:00 midnight TONIGHT!
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Bob White
April 12, 2010 4:02 PM in reply to spktruth200
Just because you disagree with people does not mean that they are misinformed. Two intelligent people can read the same set of facts and come up with divergent conclusions.
How can you say that they have "no facts". Someone in this thread has raised the fact that the national debt now comprises a debt for $41K per person in this country. That is a fact worth addressing.
Regardless of your prescription for eliminating, reducing or increasing that debt, it is a fact.
And to call people "teabagger" and "wingnut", this is no substitute for a persuasive counter-argument.
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Xantar
April 12, 2010 4:28 PM in reply to Bob White
The teabaggers came up with that name for themselves...
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JNagarya
April 12, 2010 11:17 PM in reply to Bob White
Just because you disagree with people does not mean that they are misinformed.
_____
Nor does it mean they are NOT misinformed.
Correct?
The reality is that you rely for your "news" on ENTERTAINERS who are laughing at you all the way to the bank. They don't believe the nonsense they feed you.
But they've got you tricked gfood -- enslaved, in fact:
They've smeared all other media a being "Liberal," even though it isn't, so you won't watch them for alternative views and perhaps even actual facts.
So you listen to hate-radio/FOX and believe all the corporate-fashioned slogans, and believe the slogans are truths, and believe slogans have substance. Slogans are not and don't have substance.
As for "limited gov't": yet again an asshole who hasn't READ anything presumes to know what he's talking about based upon corporate ideological soundbites
The reference is typically The Federalist -- in which you'll NOT find even a single instance of the words "limited gov't". Because that is N-O-T what the Framers of the Constitution were about. They were about establishing a powerful central Federal gov't SUPREME OVER the states.
Yours is the anti-Federalist "argument" -- which lost: the Constitution was ratified.
Yours is the "states rights" Jim Crow opposition to enforcement of Constitution and civil rights laws -- which "argument" was defeated and discredited by its loss of the Civil War.
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rawresolve
April 12, 2010 4:27 PM
Good luck "leaving behind" what you are.
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Noozprof
April 12, 2010 4:34 PM
But after Markey received threats of violence from angry anti-reformers, tea partiers in the state rushed to condemn the attacks and distance themselves from what they would call fringe elements on the right.
"Although it does not appear that these threats stemmed from those within Colorado's Tea Party movement," Northern Colorado Tea Party leader Lesley Hollywood told KDVR-TV, "organizers and members alike are firmly denouncing any acts of intimidation or threat."
This is standard Republican procedure - give lip service to denying the heinous, KKK-like acts and thoughts that are 'sui generis' to their campaign strategy while simultaneously enjoying the bounce among the rank and file. Thus, they have it both ways - appeasing the base and mollifying the media.
I won't believe any denials that are unaccompanied by sanctions against, or excommunications of, the perpetrators.
I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
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Sailormarlowe
April 12, 2010 5:24 PM
Violent rhetoric? Racist overtones? Ann Curry with furrowed brow? Where? When?
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Silence
April 12, 2010 7:29 PM
ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) - Opponents of the fiscally conservative tea party movement say they plan to infiltrate and dismantle the political group by trying to make its members appear to be racist, homophobic and moronic.
Jason Levin, creator of http://www.crashtheteaparty.org, said Monday the group has 65 leaders in major cities across the country who are trying to recruit members to infiltrate tea party events for April 15—tax filing day, when tea party groups across the country are planning to gather and protest high taxes.
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lpeggy
April 12, 2010 7:39 PM
I'm apologizing for Rockford, IL tea party organizer David Hale...who had zip-zilch-nada bad to say about then Senator elect-Obama when he had a office in our fair city in the early 2000's. Guess he wasn't a communist/socialist then.
What a bunch of nutcases and hypocrites. Can we deport these idiots to Wisconsin or something? ;-)
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RKT
April 12, 2010 9:17 PM
I suspect the problem he'll encounter is that the rank and file Tea Baggers really ARE crazy. I've spoken with some of them. They're all slogan and no substance, frighteningly uninformed, and truly off the map wingnut wise.
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John
April 12, 2010 9:38 PM
Yawn ... the tea party has peaked and is on the decline. A mere pimple on the butt of history.
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Blouise
April 12, 2010 9:52 PM
Age is their real problem ... no young people ... no future
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Duck Stab
April 12, 2010 10:09 PM
The teabaggers were never anything other than old stupid white people acting like 3 year olds throwing temper tantrums because the black guy won the election.
All I see at teabagger rallies is hate, fear, and paranoia. They have no positive ideas. They cannot say what they are for, only what they are against.
Stupid people with little minds. They can make a big noise, but their pathetic bowel movement is already fading.
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TJ rex
April 13, 2010 4:19 AM
So the tea baggers have a multiple personality disorder along with other pathologies or should we lovingly call them, psychopaths?
I am sick and tired of hearing how these freaks are a political movement. When you talk to them they have no clue what they are doing except that they hate Obama. In fact they more in common with the KKK than they do with a grass roots movement.
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Steaming Pile
April 13, 2010 9:32 AM
"It is far easier for a civilized man to act like a barbarian, than it is for a barbarian to act like a civilized man." - Spock, from "Mirror, Mirror"
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Sonya
April 13, 2010 11:47 AM
There is far too much attention being paid to an 'organization' that will eventually go the way of 'soccer moms' and other inventions of the right wing in their effort to appear more cohesive.
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Red XIV
April 13, 2010 5:01 PM
The Teahad is looking to rehabilitate its image? A bit too late for that, I think.
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Tosh
June 7, 2010 12:42 AM
Fed up with what they see as Washington's intrusion into their state, Oklahoma "tea party" leaders and some conservative legislators want to create a volunteer militia to defend against the federal government, the Associated Press writes.
"Is it scary? It sure is," said Al Gerhart, a tea party activist who heads the Oklahoma Constitutional Alliance. "But when do the states stop rolling over for the federal government?"
State Rep. Charles Key, a Republican representing Oklahoma City, said he believes there's a good chance that legislation could be introduced next year to authorize a militia.
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