
For weeks, Senate Republicans have filibustered an extension of unemployment benefits on the grounds that Democrats aren't willing to cut spending or raise taxes to pay for them. At the same time, the Bush tax cuts are set to expire, and Republicans want them to be renewed. For two days, Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl has raised eyebrows by insisting that emergency aid to unemployed people -- what he called a "necessary evil" -- be paid for through either tax hikes or spending cuts, while the tax cuts (which mostly benefit wealthy people) not be offset in any way. Yesterday claimed that this view is shared by "most of the people in my party."
He was correct.
"That's been the majority Republican view for some time," Minority Leader Mitch McConnell told TPMDC this afternoon after the weekly GOP press conference. "That there's no evidence whatsoever that the Bush tax cuts actually diminished revenue. They increased revenue, because of the vibrancy of these tax cuts in the economy. So I think what Senator Kyl was expressing was the view of virtually every Republican on that subject."
The CBO and other budget experts strongly disagree. And Democrats want to preserve the Bush tax cuts for people making less than $200,000-$250,000 a year -- but only for them. Allowing them to expire for wealthier people would raise hundreds of billions of dollars over 10 years, which could allow them to offset the spending Republicans currently decry.
However, the GOP's top budget guy, Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH), disagrees. He said Kyl's prescription -- offset spending with tax increases or program cuts, but treat tax cuts differently -- is exactly right. "It makes a lot of sense, because, you know, when you're raising taxes you're taking money out of peoples' pockets," said Gregg when asked by TPMDC. "When you're spending money, you're spending money that is -- it's not the same thing because it's growing the government. So I tend to think that tax cuts should not have to be offset."
The expert view is that giving unemployed people money to spend stimulates the economy much more than does preserving tax cuts for the rich. But this view is not shared by the chairman of the Republican Senate re-election committee.
"I think the urgency of deficit neutral extension of unemployment insurance has increased because of the size of the deficit and the size of the debt," Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX), another member of the GOP leadership team, told TPMDC yesterday. "I'm aware in the past some extensions have not been paid for, but if there's one thing that I'm hearing from my constituents it's that deficit spending has to stop, and I think this is a good place to do it."
Extending tax cuts to wealthy Americans is a different story.
"The problem is, you know, when you raise taxes, which is what that will be if no action is taken, taxes will go up on dividends and on capital gains on a whole lot of people who aren't rich. And the problem with that in a recession is it further contracts capital formation and investment which means it has a negative impact on jobs. I really can't think -- if you really set out to try to come up with ways to discourage people from investing and creating new jobs and growing their business, I can't think of a more comprehensive agenda for doing that than what we've seen over the last year and a half."
To be sure, a few moderate Republicans have supported the idea of extending unemployment benefits without paying for them. But, as Kyl implied, they are the distinct minority.
"If we extend the president's tax cuts -- if we wanted to do new tax cuts, I think we ought to cut spending to pay for them," said Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK), one of the most conservative members of the GOP. "But the tax cuts that we have today?" The answer to that rhetorical question, presumably, is no.
DrToast
July 13, 2010 5:43 PM
Can someone ask them about the times Reagan raised taxes?
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Ugg the Repug
July 14, 2010 7:38 AM in reply to DrToast
Why you think they call us "Repugs"? Repugnant, vile, uncaring, disgusting, worthless. America better off when we extinct...again. Har har har.
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July 14, 2010 8:20 PM in reply to DrToast
There is blame to go around! Why don't you go after Obama and the Democrats for not pushing illegals out of 7 million much-needed jobs???
Additional unemployment wouldn't be needed if they would stop "allowing" illegals to work our jobs!! The Democrats are just as vile as Bush and Cheney, screwing us out of much-needed jobs, and as Obama admitted "illegals go to the E.R. and we pay for it", yet they do nothing to get our jobs back and the financial relief that comes from illegals leaving this country!!
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red cabbage
July 14, 2010 9:34 PM in reply to Mary
Mary,
Your logic is spotty at best.
Of course you have proof of "illegal" immigrants being given jobs over American citizens?
And if you did, it's not the "illegals" fault, it's the employers fault. Oh wait, I forgot, conservatives never blame business-it's always the employees' fault.
Parting gifts backstage, Mary.
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 3:05 PM in reply to red cabbage
I don't blame the illegal aliens, but it still is a problem that is helping to hurt the job market. It is far from the only factor, though (most being the direct fault of politicians-so why do you want them to "fix it"?)
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July 15, 2010 12:21 PM in reply to Mary
heres the problem with illegals:
if you legalize (amnesty) them, employers will be forced to pay them a normal wage, which will no doubtedly include health benefits. i mean come on, what person, illegal or no, would work that job 'on the books' and not demand benefits?
now, if that were to happen, liberals/dems always complain that the cost of food will go up, ect ect. costs will rise. i concede that they would indeed go up due to employers passing the cost on to the consumer.
now. say we deport all these illegals. thats 10mil + jobs for american citizens. awesome. i like this idea more than i like the idea of giving illegal aliens citizenship(amnesty).
if we kick the illegals out, food costs, ect ect will STILL go up because the employers are once again forced to pay a fair wage + benefits to legal american citizens.
i am totally fine with paying more for a head of lettuce that i buy once a week! i know many americans who wouldnt care as long as the work was done by honest, american citizens.
now, there is a growing trend here, can anyone spot it in my post?
its that the employers are not being punished for hiring illegals. right? left? dem? repub? who cares who owns the business! if you hire illegals, youre just as bad as the jerks who outsource tech support jobs to india!
think about it...
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 4:09 PM in reply to DrToast
Reagan was a sellout.
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Walter Mitty
July 13, 2010 5:50 PM
I'm betting the Dems will give in and extend or even make the cuts permanent. In the spirit of bi-partisanship of course.
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cawleybo
July 13, 2010 7:47 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
Sadly, I think you may be right.
And the worst part is (aside from the impact on umemployed people and the economy) that you could hardly ask for a more perfect issue to highlight republican callousness and hypocrisy. Democrats should be dying to make an issue out of this. But, they won't.
I'm beginning to think I owe Ralph Nader an apology ...
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Stephen Daugherty
July 13, 2010 9:15 PM in reply to cawleybo
Frankly, I'm beginning to get very annoyed with the pre-emptive resignation to this BS. I think we should have the guts to tell them that if they cave into Republicans on this one, it means their jobs.
We can't develop political strength from the assumption that we're politically weak. We have to be willing to tell these people no.
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 3:18 PM in reply to Stephen Daugherty
I think you miss the point. While I do think they should have extended benefits, the elephant in the room is all of the job killing schemes that come along with this "neo-liberal" agenda which is the polar opposite of what any classical liberal would have stood for.
Right out of the gates, Obamacare will be destroying jobs with the recently reported tax laws (which have nothing to do with health care) that came along with it. It could be YOUR JOB that is cut to make way for complying with these tax updates. . . just imagine if they get cap-and-trade or any of that passed. Don't worry though, the loving Democrats will just bankrupt the country and create more job losses via increased taxation to "assist" people who are harmed by the catastrophe that they and the Republicans caused. Sounds like a shady deal, at best.
Also, a tax break for the rich. Often, when I see this "tax breaks for the rich" argument, they are referring to tax breaks on businesses. . . you know, those things that create jobs so that you aren't homeless and starving to death in the gutter. Tax breaks for businesses will free up more money to hire more people, and pay them better salaries. Government intervention and taxation severely limits the ability of businesses to employ people causing them to have to choose between various employees, or complying with regulations and taxes. Wouldn't you rather be getting that tax money as a paycheck?
And don't even try the old "Reagan raised taxes" arguement. I don't see what any small government constitutionalist could see in Reagan. He was slightly less evil than, say, Clinton, Bush or Obama, but his policies were hardly the small government non-interventionist, individual liberty platform of tradition. Some of the people surrounding Reagan had the right idea, but I don't think it ever came to fruition.
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July 13, 2010 9:06 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
Not only will the Democrats give in and accept the tax cuts in the spirit of bi-partisanship, the Republicans will not return the favor and approve the extension of unemployment benefits. Just like with HCR where the Dems gave in time and time again only to be told, "you know I can't vote for this."
The Dems need to tell the Repubs to screw off and go ahead and fillibuster their pretty little heads off. See how long the public tolerates that.
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hunter
July 14, 2010 11:43 AM in reply to Kyle
You must have missed the memo: HCR passed.
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July 14, 2010 4:49 PM in reply to hunter
For crying out loud, duh! But it wasn't anywhere near what was originally proposed and the public option, which during the campaign was said to be crucial, was dropped due to the Republicans refusal to play fair.
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aq
July 14, 2010 6:05 PM in reply to Kyle
I'd love to see more actual filibusters. I'd think the 70 year olds in the room wouldn't last too long. Cloture is boring. Either change the rules from 2/3rds, to 3/5ths to 11/20th and just ram everything through, or force Jim Bunning to do his shindig.
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pol
July 13, 2010 9:55 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
I just don't think this will happen. The expiring tax cuts are part of the projected budget. Re-upping the tax cuts will case the budget deficit to be even greater -- and boy will that make the "reduce deficit" people go wild.
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hunter
July 14, 2010 11:45 AM in reply to pol
I agree. Moreover, this preemptive anger ignores that the legislative inertia is on our side this time; Congress has to act to extend these tax breaks. Failure to act means they expire. If you think Pelosi is going to bring a full extension to the floor, you've gone round the bend.
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The Decider
July 13, 2010 5:50 PM
We can offset these taxcuts to the rich by taxing unemployed people. After all, you tax things you want to stop and we want to stop them from being unemployed. So, problem solved!
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ahumbleopinion
July 13, 2010 7:29 PM in reply to The Decider
Republicans have been complaining for weeks about the 49% of Americans who don't pay any income tax, so this is consistent with their platform. Give tax breaks to the rich and raise taxes on the poor.
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tinsk
July 14, 2010 10:03 AM in reply to ahumbleopinion
It's not so much that 49% of American's DON"T pay income taxes. It's that 49% of Americans don't earn enough income to pay any taxes. And that "not earning enough" amount is up around $35,000 - $40,000 per year.
However, the more serious issue is that 67%, a full 2 thirds of American corporations pay no income taxes. Companies such as Exxon/Mobile, BP America, GE, etc. If companies who report 12 BILLION in profits for 2008 can get away with paying ZERO taxes and the employees they hire earning $40,000 per year don't earn enough to pay taxes, is it no wonder the country is broke?
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July 14, 2010 11:59 AM in reply to tinsk
Take it from someone who lives in Mississippi, the petri dish of all Republican policy ideas, the Republicans want to make the tax code as regressive as possible, all in the name of "everyone paying their fair share."
Even if poorer people don't pay income taxes because they don't earn enough, they still pay sales taxes, gas taxes, property taxes (if they can manage to own property)...hell, in Mississippi, we even tax groceries! Of course, our cigarette tax is oh so low.
The tax money they chip in for these NECESSITIES OF LIFE (ok, not cigarettes) burdens them far more it does richer people.
It's just as regressive as it can be.
If y'all don't want the whole country to look like Mississippi, KEEP THE REPUBLICANS OUT OF A CONGRESSIONAL MINORITY!
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tinsk
July 14, 2010 1:00 PM in reply to Daniel
I assume you meant to say keep them out of the majority?
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dwjoae
July 14, 2010 2:29 PM in reply to tinsk
Hasn't anyone here looked at the tax code? What is income? Profits and gains. Nowhere in there is the word "wages." Who ever enforces income tax on those who earn wages is committing a felony. The solutions are right under your noses.
In 1913, a total JACKASS signed in the Federal Reserve Act, the IRS, and the FBI.
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 3:22 PM in reply to tinsk
How about ending income taxes . . . for everyone? The best times in American history were sans a Federal income tax. If we abolished the IRS, just imagine how quickly the economy would recover? We'd be an economic powerhouse compared to the rest of the world.
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 3:23 PM in reply to tinsk
How about ending income taxes . . . for everyone? The best times in American history were sans a Federal income tax. If we abolished the IRS, just imagine how quickly the economy would recover? We'd be an economic powerhouse compared to the rest of the world.
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 3:52 PM in reply to tinsk
Funny. I make less than $35,000 a year and I pay a lot of taxes. So much so, that it curbs my ability to enjoy the fruits of my labor beyond necessity.
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July 13, 2010 8:19 PM in reply to The Decider
Seriously hoping you're being funny and are aware that unemployment payments are already taxable income, and has been since Reagan. Can't be too sure on that one, since an awful lot of people don't seem to be aware of that.
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CityGuy
July 13, 2010 9:44 PM in reply to Robert
Yeah The Decider has a rich sense of irony. Shrub didn't, all his irony was unintentional. But The Decider here is cool, and he has his irony done by the dry-cleaners.
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decisivemoment
July 13, 2010 5:59 PM
In other news, Republican senators announced that the sun rises in the west, that the moon is actually made of green cheese, and that raw crude oil spillage is good for the environment.
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Matt Jones
July 13, 2010 6:04 PM
Nice to see Sen. Cornyn entering the "Find the most woefully out-of-touch Republican" contest. Exactly how many "not-rich" people really suffer from capital gains taxes, versus how many only invest via tax-sheltered vehicles like IRAs and 401ks? Or is he just worrying about his "not-rich" friends at the country club who only bring home a million a year?
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ahumbleopinion
July 13, 2010 7:31 PM in reply to Matt Jones
Capital gains and dividends in IRAs and 401k's are taxed at ordinary income tax rates not the special capital gains and dividend rates Bush enacted for people with plenty of investments outside retirement accounts. Not everyone gets a break on their investment income.
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davewtf
July 13, 2010 6:09 PM
We cannot use things like facts and logic on the GOP. They don't think that way, and neither do their constituents. Try using voodoo economics and claims of god, guns, and glory.
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Rick Jones
July 14, 2010 10:04 AM in reply to davewtf
God wants rich people to pay more taxes so you can keep your guns and go to church and be saved from the socialist black president.
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Progressive Party
July 13, 2010 6:11 PM
If the GOP continues this class warfare and the dems fail to go for the nuclear option, anarchy can be far behind! Add another 200,000 who will lose benfits this week.
Crime, domestic violence. child abuse and neglect. forclosues alcohol and drug abuse increase with this clear and demenstrated destuction of the middle class!
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truth > spin
July 13, 2010 7:02 PM in reply to Progressive Party
Right, and this "tax the rich" shrill isn't class warfare at all.
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FreemanW
July 13, 2010 8:50 PM in reply to truth > spin
Please tell me that you're serious.
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truth > spin
July 13, 2010 9:25 PM in reply to FreemanW
Yup, I am serious.
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Jack of All Tirades
July 13, 2010 11:20 PM in reply to truth > spin
When you have CEOs going from making 40X that of the average line worker to 600X, I'd say class warfare is already here.
The US already has the lowest tax rate of any industrialized nation - we just have crybabies who made their money in this country using our technology, our infrastructure, our free-market, threatening to go all Galt and move to Costa Rica - a country where they sure as hell wouldn't have made a dime (yes, I'm talking to you, Rush).
If you're not a millionaire and are spouting this bullshit, then you're a goddamned sap. Wake the fuck up - we're in the middle of a goddamned depression and you want to extend the tax cuts for the upper fifth and not extend unemployment benefits? Jesus, what the fuck is wrong with you?!
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truth > spin
July 14, 2010 12:15 AM in reply to Jack of All Tirades
That CEOs make an absurd amount isn't by itself class warfare. Class warfare is one group isolates a smaller group by using fear, hatred, jealousy and other malcontented motives. It's tyranny of the majority when economic status is the wedge.
No, I am not wealthy. I do work hard running two businesses and am starting a third. I employ 8 people, have 5 business partners and support my family off the many hours I put in. If I stopped working, I'd be in real trouble very quickly. But I am motivated by being more successful and by having the opportunity to earn and gain financial security.
We are not in a depression and I am certainly no sap. I tell you though, there are days I wish one of our innovators or major entrepreneurs would shut the machine off.
I am thankful for all the sweat and effort put in by the American workforce. I know I am lucky that I don't have to break my back doing physical labor each day. I really am thankful for that. But I am equally thankful that executives at major drug companies had the courage to billions of R&D dollars on the line to come up with some amazing treatments. I am thankful that really smart, risk takers put up the capital to develop the communications network I enjoy. I am thankful that the free market allowed so many devices and innovations to flourish.
I am also thankful that the top earners pay a higher proportion of the federal tax burden than they used do. I appreciate that and I know that if they didn't, a greater share would fall on me.
I never said I would extend the lower tax rates or that I would not extend the period people can collect unemployment. I simply called out Party Progress for his assertion that it was somehow class warfare to not extend UI but it isn't the same or worse to beat the drums and sharpen pitchforks against the top earners who pay that increasing share of the freight.
I am all for a rational debate over what the appropriate rates should be in our progressive tax system. And if the decision is that an increase on the top end is what is needed, then fine. But how about a bit of damn gratitude for it? How about some recognition that while the wealthy are not hurting, that they are in fact doing what's asked of them. And how about people stop feeding the jealousy monsters inside them and recognize that this isn't a zero sum game. You don't need to tear them down to have opportunity yourself.
When you have CEOs going from making 40X that of the average line worker to 600X, I'd say class warfare is already here.
The US already has the lowest tax rate of any industrialized nation - we just have crybabies who made their money in this country using our technology, our infrastructure, our free-market, threatening to go all Galt and move to Costa Rica - a country where they sure as hell wouldn't have made a dime (yes, I'm talking to you, Rush).
If you're not a millionaire and are spouting this bullshit, then you're a goddamned sap. Wake the fuck up - we're in the middle of a goddamned depression and you want to extend the tax cuts for the upper fifth and not extend unemployment benefits? Jesus, what the fuck is wrong with you?!
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July 14, 2010 2:36 AM in reply to truth > spin
I'm not sure class warfare is such a bad thing, as long as your side is right. If you believe the rich are paying their share, then you're opposed to the "war" and like the status quo. But this has been going on a long time and it will continue to do so until we can all agree that some level of fairness has been reached. To the extent that this is impossible, the war is healthy.
Now, Republicans have traditionally been the party of defending the rich and powerful, and trying to get as many tax cuts as possible for them, while cutting spending that they don't like. Democrats have been the party of defending the poor and powerless, and trying to get regulations and spending to "redistribute" wealth that they view has been allocated unfairly, in a way that buffers social costs and hopefully provides the poor more leverage (education, health care, libraries, childcare, etc.). To the extent that things have gotten very lop-sided, and the rich are taking more than their fair share, the Democrats will be hammering them.
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truth > spin
July 14, 2010 11:07 AM in reply to Eli
I strongly believe that class warfare is a bad thing and is unhealthy. Generally it is orchestrated by others who are motivated to have one group gore the ox of another group. Far easier to blame someone else for all the world's troubles and not have to bother to come up with solutions or do the hard work needed to fix the problem.
Democrats have no monopoly on compassion and Republicans have no monopoly on having wealthy friends. If Republican tax cuts are designed to help only the wealthy, then tell me why it is that the top earners now shoulder a far greater share of the federal tax obligations? And why fewer and fewer people in the lower tiers face any income tax obligation whatsoever. That the wealthiest people are now paying proportionally more of the total than in the past isn't speculation or me hoping it is true: it simple is.
But listen, I agree having a reasonable debate over what the various rates and obligations ought to be in our progressive tax structure is fine and a responsible thing to do.
Shouting "get the rich" or making insinuations about them ripping everyone off is not helpful. And it only fuels hatred, jealousy, envy and provides an excuse for people to not take their civic obligation seriously. I also would maintain that it depresses democracy. If people feel that the system is rigged against them and that they don't have open opportunity, they are more likely to disconnect from civic engagement, from voting and from being responsible in general.
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crazycarnypoptart
July 14, 2010 12:59 PM in reply to truth > spin
That the wealthiest people are now paying proportionally more of the total than in the past isn't speculation or me hoping it is true: it simple is.
The reason they are paying more is because they control 90% of the wealth. so of course they will pay more no matter the tax rate. They actually have the lowest tax rate I think they have ever had. Now when the infrastructure grew the most and when the country prospered the most was when they had to pay a 90% tax rate. You see high taxes on the rich encourages them to leave their money in their businesses, ex hiring more employees, expanding business. While lower tax rates encourage them to take money out of their business because they won't have to pay much, This is at the coist of the business and the economy in general ie. layoffs. my point is that tax cuts for the wealthy have a negative economic effect.
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dwjoae
July 14, 2010 2:36 PM in reply to truth > spin
Class warfare is created when you illegally tax wages, and do so incrementally as one's wages increase. The more you earn with your wages, the more you're illegally taxed, that keeps YOU from making it!
Income is profits and gains, not wages.
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Clarance Vine
July 14, 2010 7:54 AM in reply to truth > spin
No, you're not a sap. A fool is my guess. But first, read up corporate welfare - and become enlightened.
"...that executives at major drug companies had the courage to billions of R&D dollars...some amazing treatments". Do you have any idea where half of those billions come from? They come from you and me, the American taxpayer, we subsidize their "courage" at 45% and more. And what do these executives do once they develop these amazing treatments? They make it unaffordable for most in need to get access to them. So then your corporate friends get governments to subsidize (a 2nd time) the cost of these wonder drugs to those that need them.
This shit goes on all the time.
You're the classic chump who, for whatever reason, makes some good money, and as a result, equates good fortune with intelligence, and then decides to become a Republican (all of a sudden someone tells you you're 'better' than most-and it feels good). Problem is you're still the same lump you always were and the new friends you find entertaining at the Republican country club are going to take all that money you love and "invest" it for you. And then when they lose it all(minus fees of course) they'll kick you out of the club and back to being a working stiff, stuck with the people you so desperately wanted to get away from. I've seen it happen countless times, even to friends and family members. Wise up, you're not that smart or that special.
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davcbr
July 14, 2010 8:54 AM in reply to Clarance Vine
Speaking as somebody who has made his career in the drug industry, I believe I can take this a step further.
These companies are making scads of mobney and at this particular point in time are closing research facilities. Many of them. They are not profitable in this environment. There was once a time when the idea was to invest for the long haul. These guys in charge now are crapping out at the first big bump.
But what really galls me is that the huge profits that these companies make are paid by the citizenry of THIS COUNTRY. We as a nation are paying for the research that the entire world benefits from. Simply because we cannot pass a law that allows us to negotiate prices with these bastards.
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 3:32 PM in reply to davcbr
Then stop paying for the research. It's their business, and they have enough money. Let them foot the bill. I never got why some people seem to forget that schemes such as this are actually another form of corporate welfare that should be payed for by the companies involved, not by us.
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vasu
July 14, 2010 9:20 AM in reply to Clarance Vine
I have to agree with this statement. But what really was mentioned above is the failed, FAILED policy of trickle down economics. This policy is utter bullshit.
The top 1.5% get the wealth and keep it, and do everything in their power to avoid paying for it.
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Clarance Vine
July 14, 2010 11:03 AM in reply to vasu
Yes, it is a great con, dangling that carrot out there saying "yes, you too can have what I have but you must be patient, so very very patient".
Growing up middle class there was never much resentment from my family and neighbors because, as much as they distrusted the rich, they knew, as well (most importantly)as the rich knew, a strong middle class was essential to the country, and a strong middle class helped many of the rich stay rich. The rich always got the biggest piece of the pie but they understood the importance of sharing the pie. It was not as it is today.
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truth > spin
July 14, 2010 11:18 AM in reply to Clarance Vine
Clarence,
I think this is an important sentiment:
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July 15, 2010 3:00 AM in reply to truth > spin
Nothing wrong with these folks. They are getting away with it. The subjects, yes Jefferson was right the first time, have no clue as to what is going on. And seem to care...
...less.
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dwjoae
July 14, 2010 2:24 PM in reply to Jack of All Tirades
The greatest requirement for all these taxes is to pay the interest on the debt of all the dollars borrowed from the international banking cartel called the Federal Reserve!
Everyone is so busy arguing about that, which is irrelevant. We're broke, we're borrowing more and more, and the Federal Reserve is not even under the control of our Government.
We're treading water. Like our bodies, nine tenths of our problems are BENEATH the surface.
Abolish the Federal Reserve, and break free of the bankers who control our money supply. Until this is addressed, everyone here is wasting their time. As long as every dollar in existence is borrowed from those who control us, who are not under the auspices of our People, at interest, then we shall continue to spiral downwardly.
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 4:07 PM in reply to Jack of All Tirades
Yeah... class warfare.... as in, the political class and their cronies, vs. well... everyone else (just like they do things in communist countries), including the rich. I see a lot of rich people going into foreclosure and bankruptcy too.
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dwjoae
July 14, 2010 2:16 PM in reply to Progressive Party
If you really want to address the unemployment issue, then you might wish to address the ridiculousness of NAFTA and GATT.
Our manufacturing base has left the country. Everything is made overseas.
If you want to have fun taxing rich people, fantasize taxing the rich Mexicans. They have one of the richest elite in this hemisphere, yet they're sending most of the poor into our country. They're a great example of eliminating a middle class.
The "idiots" are the ones who knock the teabaggers, that they created!!
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jeffgee
July 13, 2010 6:16 PM
Those unemployed people might be rich someday, so they want their unemployment benefits cut to pay for the tax cuts they'll get when they're rich, right?
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John M
July 13, 2010 11:35 PM in reply to jeffgee
Those unemployed people would be stupid to vote for anyone byt Democrats in November. Republicans have thrown the unemployed under the bus to favour the richest 2% of Americans and have done nothing for the current or future unemployed. The Republican Corporate Party deserves to lose even the seats it has already, let alone not to gain any. The agenda of the Republicna Corporate Party is to take the United Corporate States of America away from the people the RCP says are omp[ortamnt, despite the fact that the actions of the RCP kick the people in the teeth for the benefit of corporations and the rich. The agenda of the Republican Corporate Party is to turn that nation into the United Corporate States of America and to take that nation AWAY from the people.
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jeffgee
July 14, 2010 9:54 AM in reply to John M
Yes they would, but may will vote for the Party of No anyway because they can't stand the idea that their old guy and his beauty pageant bunny didn't win the presidency.
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Rick Jones
July 14, 2010 10:07 AM in reply to jeffgee
It's payback time for sure.
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Rick Jones
July 14, 2010 10:08 AM in reply to Rick Jones
And damn the consequences.
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Mrwilson1
July 13, 2010 6:19 PM
The GOP thinks at elections they are going to say that they saved the US money. The people who didnt get unemployment arnt going to see it that way
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Signalman
July 13, 2010 6:36 PM
So if tax cuts create jobs, how come the Bush tax cuts -- which are still in effect -- aren't helping to keep unemployment down?
Where are all those jobs they were supposed to create?
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July 13, 2010 7:38 PM in reply to Signalman
Yes! Exactly! But we need someone in the MEDIA who is willing to ASK your question every time a Rethuglican't, spouts off "Where's the JOBS Obama promised?", usually coming out of the mouth of the Orange faced LUSH!
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 4:11 PM in reply to Signalman
It's a matter of perspective. . . the kind of perspective you'll get once they expire and the pink slips start circulating. You dig?
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Signalman
July 16, 2010 2:42 PM in reply to NonPartisanRationalist
If you're saying that the expiration of the Bush tax cuts will cause jobs to be lost, then no, I'm afraid I don't dig.
Could you elaborate on your position, please? I'm not sure I follow your meaning and intent.
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Kevin
July 13, 2010 6:40 PM
I would like to propose a few things:
First, if anybody gets evicted, let’s start taking over the Senator’s offices….use them to sleep in, send faxes, use the phones and their computers to find work.
Second, when we do find work, claim 99 exemptions. I REFUSE to pay any more taxes!! Remember the old saying ‘No taxation without representation’?? Well, it is VERY obvious that Americans have no representation!! “Taxation without representation is TYRANNY!!”
Third, if this bill does not pass, let’s make sure that this election is one that NO SENATOR will EVER FORGET!!,
Everybody get your guns ready….and VOTE THEIR ASSES OUT OF OFFICE!!!
We can afford to GIVE Pakistan $7.5 BILLION to arm and train Taliban to kill AMERICAN soldiers…..we can afford to GIVE Egypt $7 Billion, we can afford to GIVE Haitian earthquake victims over $2 BILLION dollars, we can afford to GIVE $30 MILLION to Palestinian refugees…
We CAN AFFORD to keep the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest 1 percent of the country.
We CAN AFFORD to bail out Wall Street and buy GM.
But we CAN’T AFFORD to take care of middle class AMERICANS who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own???
And this is being decided by people that ‘We the People’ are paying!!!
‘We the People’ are ALLOWING these people to GIVE our tax dollars away to others, but they won’t help us??? With OUR OWN MONEY????
I am absolutely ASHAMED of the Senators and to be called an American!!!
And Senators…..you should be ASHAMED of YOURSELVES!!!
“RECKLESS SPENDING”THE SENATOR CALLS IT LOL!YOU PIECE OF TRASH!YOU SIT IN THE SENATE SEAT AND GET PAID 100K A YEAR PLUS ALL THE KICKBACKS AND THE MONEY YOU STEAL WHILE YOUR IN OFFICE NOT TO MENTION YOUR RETIREMENT PAID BY THE TAX PAYERS FOR THE REST OF YOUR WORTHLESS LIFE AND YOU CALL AN UNEMPLOYMENT EXTENSION FOR MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE UNEMPLOYED MOSTLY DUE TO NO FAULT OF THIER OWN”RECKLESS SPENDING”WOW,YOU MUST FEEL LIKE A BIG MAN BY DENYING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE THE MONEY THEY NEED TO BUY FOOD,PAY RENT,KEEP THE ELECTRICITY AND PHONE ON YOU ARE A REAL BIG MAN!YOUR A SCUMBAG JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE ONES WHO ONCE AGAIN VOTED NO BUT YOUR TIME IS COMING.YOU ARE YOUR OWN KINGS AND THIS IS THE HELL YOU HAVE CREATED FOR YOURSELFS.
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Dorn76
July 13, 2010 7:22 PM in reply to Kevin
Less caffeine and all caps, please.
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Powkat
July 13, 2010 6:47 PM
How can there be no evidence that tax cuts diminish revenue? That's exactly what they do. They are a cut in income. Period. Now, they can tie themselves in knots to say that that somehow cutting taxes raised other revenue (and they do) but it is just a flat out life to say "there's no evidence whatsoever that the Bush tax cuts actually diminished revenue."
And I think somehow the rest of us missed that vibrancy in the economy he talks about. Must have been getting extra 'donations' from the oil companies those years.
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tinsk
July 14, 2010 10:53 AM in reply to Powkat
You are exactly right. The problem is that conservatives had a hard time with complex deductive logic. When confronted with such, they most often trot out the simplistic 18th Century words of our "founding fathers"
So, to highlight that a tax cut is in fact spending, somebody ought to ask Sen Kyle this:
In the words of Benjamin Franklin, if you believe that "A penny saved is a penny earned", is not the opposite also true? If a penny (revenue) not spent is a penny (revenue) gained, then it must also be true that a penny (revenue) lost is a penny (revenue) spent.
Or maybe Mr. Kyle would prefer to throw ole Ben Franklin under the bus.
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 3:50 PM in reply to tinsk
The 18th century founding fathers were part of a second coming of the Rennisaince. Have you read any books from that time period? They are far from simplistic, my friend. The language alone is something that would make the average modern TV head's brain explode-not to mention the subject matter.
You are referring to a book written by Ben Franklin mostly for children. In reality, Ben Franklin was a scientist, engineer, philosopher, statesman, author and a really good businessman. That book was meant to be a book for children to learn how to be successful adults. It's kind of scary that a childrens book is all some people know of the founding fathers. It's also strange that you glorify reason, yet you discount a period where reason was king (much more than today).
It was truly a more enlightened time than ours. No amount of technology or advances in medicine will make up for what we lack in enlightenment in the modern age. We're all living in the moment without a clue as to the past struggles of humanity that show up in the long view of history. Those struggles are still happening today, they just take long periods of time to manifest. These days, it seems like we're merely living in a technological version of the Midieval era-sans the peasant revolts.
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July 13, 2010 7:01 PM
Whoever said the Old Testament prophets were antiquated and irrelevant, are likely focused on the wrong profit.
Amos 8:
'Hear this YOU that trample on the needy, and bring to ruin the poor of the land, saying, "When will the new moon be oer that we may sell grain and the sabbath so that we may offer wheat for sale? We will make the ephah small and the shekel great, and practice deceit with false balances, buying the poor for silver and the needy for a pair of sandals, and selling the sweepings of the wheat."
this is directed at nobody but those supposed persons of faith who somehow seem to feel that The Lord God endorses your version of the prosperity gospel - your version of the trickle down economics - and somehow justify yourselves in such thought.
Wake up and read the book you claim to put your faith in - and see what God truly values, see where God consistently stands - see the poor, the needy: not as an afterthought, or even as a secondary gain , but as a primary concern to be attentive to - first and foremost.
Folks, get your heads out of the profit margins and listen to the prophet on the margins.
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Joshua the Teacher
July 13, 2010 7:19 PM in reply to Mike
Amen, preach Brother Mike!
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 4:15 PM in reply to Joshua the Teacher
Groucho Marx was a gun loving, libertarian, capitalist, who was frustrated that likes of Karl Marx had the same last name as him. Just thought I'd let you know.
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taikan
July 13, 2010 7:03 PM
If tax cuts actually resulted in an increase in revenue, this country would not have had record deficits immediately following the Reagan tax cuts, and then again immediately following the Bush II tax cuts, while having a budget surplus following the modest tax increases in effect during the Clinton administration.
Even Bush I understood that cutting taxes without similar cuts in spending would result in deficits. That's why, during the primaries, he labeled Reagan's insistence that cutting taxes would increase revenues as "voodoo economics."
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Andreams
July 13, 2010 7:24 PM
"they increased revenue, because of the vibrancy of these tax cuts in the economy".
If this is a vibrant economy, could someone please cut the lights out? I feel downright blinded.
If they continue the tax cuts and refuse to extend unemployment, including for the 99ers, they should be drawn and quartered.
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Sniffit
July 13, 2010 7:48 PM
"I really can't think "
That said it all.
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Sniffit
July 13, 2010 7:55 PM
"if you really set out to try to come up with ways to discourage people from investing and creating new jobs and growing their business, I can't think of a more comprehensive agenda for doing that than what we've seen over the last year and a half."
Neither can I. All you need is one party running around like batshit moonbeam lunatics screaming day and night about what a mess everything is, why it's all the current administration's fault, how the current administration wants to make you slaves and take all your money and freedom, how awful anything proposed or enacted is, how the only solution is tax cuts for the already wealthy, denegrating any efforts to fix the economy, scaring as many investors as possible, yammering non-stop about socialism, communism and Jesus, etc. etc....and voila...massive damage to the collective psyche, no consumer confidence, business hesitation and donwsizing/consolidation, investor and financial institutions frozen by fear, etc.
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July 13, 2010 8:34 PM
☎
What about the Tax Cuts given to American Corporations that moved American Manufacturing overseas?
The Jobs Lost? The Revenues Lost? The Tax Revenues Lost?
American Consumerism Lost?
For Who's Benefits .. the Nations?
To the Detriment of the Nation's Economic Health?
Prior Administrations colluded with American Corporate Leadership - changed the Laws governing Trade - Enabled them to ship American Manufacturing and Research to overseas Labor - put 14 million Americans out of work - scheduled Laws so no Sales Taxes on American Products manufactured & Sold overseas would return to the USA effectively crippling our Federal_State_Municipal Revenues negatively impacting Social Security_Health_Education and the Nations Welfare.
Wall Street states that due to these changes in Laws governing our Economy that American Consumerism is Dead and will remain Dead for this Decade, the next Decade and probably Beyond.
Who other than Obama has attempted to step up to set this matter before the Nation so as to
have Repatriation of Sales Tax Funds on Overseas Sales by American Corporations be made Law? - the American News Media awaits you.
As it stands - the monies from Overseas Sales by American Corporations goes to Off Shore Banking Accounts and is never seen
by Banking located on American soil.
Treason is the Definition regarding our Senatorial & Congressional Elect-ed's intent and subsequent behavior that Enabled Corporations to Swindle
the Nation.
Viewing Economic History both American - European as the basis for this judgment, the call is correct.
This Swindle began in the very early 1980s.
What has it and is it continuing to cost the Nation?
These corrupted Laws are not set in stone:
yet The American Elected Senators & Congressmen refuse to
revisit this travesty of National Economic Oversight.
The American Public have No Idea that this is what is bringing
America down, but blame Obama for a failing Economic Structure
- Economic Model that was designed to fail and put in place by R.Reagan_B.Clinton.
You can't ship a Nations employment overseas to reap short term Corporate Profits on cheap goods while jobs are what fuels a Consumerism Economy.
Start Asking the Right Questions of Washington.. beginning with
the Repatriation of Sales Tax to the United States on all American Corporate Manufacturing Overseas Products sold.
As to the Banking Regulation:
No one is saying it:
The 'New Think' by the Fed is that letting 'Bubbles' in the Economy be created 'is Good' since it makes Investors short term profits.
Hence, those very things that brought down our Financial District and other Nations will continue .. with some oversight .. not much ,
enough to make it look to the Media that something substantial was done.
It is what I coin:
"Bubble Think"
America is wide open for another Swindle.. thank you 'Corporate Think'
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chimpale
July 13, 2010 8:39 PM
Prove it. Show us exactly how it did that. Otherwise, the statement is no more valid than mine if I were to say "The sun came up today because of the vibrancy of my personality, my stunning good looks, and my superior intellect."
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voreason
July 13, 2010 8:58 PM in reply to chimpale
It strikes me that he used the word 'vibrancy' as if it somehow magically made his idiotic non-argument valid.
Vibrancy. Palin likes that word too.
God what idiots they all are.
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CityGuy
July 14, 2010 10:09 AM in reply to voreason
Co-sign! And remember, these idiots are the real alternatives to Obama and the Democratically-controlled Congress.
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Rick Jones
July 14, 2010 10:50 AM in reply to voreason
But they are VIBRANT idiots. And that's one of the most dangerous kind.
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July 13, 2010 8:46 PM
I love how John Cornyn says his constituents want him to cut back on deficit spending, but on his own facebook page there are 730 comments from people begging for unemployment. It just doesn't add up. He IS NOT listening to his constituents, he's listening to his party's agenda.
http://www.facebook.com/Sen.JohnCornyn?v=wall&story_fbid=137746819583885
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FreemanW
July 13, 2010 8:58 PM
You're entitled to your own opinion.
You ARE NOT entitled to your own facts.
If these greedy motherfucking GOP'ers were correct, the United States Treasury would be dripping in surplus and the economy would be steamrolling at full employment.
They are challenging the ignorance of the American populous with their arrogant mendacity.
I'm sure that the corporate whoring media will call them out on their bodacious lies.
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
July 13, 2010 9:01 PM
"That there's no evidence whatsoever that the Bush tax cuts actually diminished revenue. They increased revenue, because of the vibrancy of these tax cuts in the economy. So I think what Senator Kyl was expressing was the view of virtually every Republican on that subject."
Ummm, howabout going from running a goddamned surplus each year from '98 -
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
July 13, 2010 9:09 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
Dammit, got so mad I hit submit too soon.
How about going from running a goddamned surplus each year from 1998-2001 when the Bush tax cuts kicked in, to increasing deficits in every year since? How about the fact that the deficit started declining the year Clinton convinced Congress to impose a modest tax increase on the top 5% and continued to decline until turning positive in '98? How's that for "evidence" you sociopathic goons?
Oh, and how about the way the deficit skyrocketed right after the Reagan tax cuts? I'd have to call that "evidence." But then, I'm not psychotic, delusional and completely disassociated from the slightest moral or practical compunction about just flat out lying because I know there will be no consequences, only rewards, for doing so.
Yes. It's clearly important for us to put serious thinkers like this back in charge.
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Rick Jones
July 14, 2010 10:59 AM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
Lalalalalalala (running around fingers in ears). Don't confuse me with your so-called evidence. Much too difficult to understand. I'd rather live in ignorance than have to actually...what's that called...oh yeah, think.
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July 13, 2010 9:12 PM
Tax 'Cuts' how do you 'cut' from zero Senator Kyl? Exxon made $14 Billion in 'declared' profit last year and paid...wait for it...
....$0 in Federal Corporate Income taxes. So, yes it's all working out quite well for Corporate Slave State America and I've just got one question for folk here....
...What do you intend to do about it?
And I don't mean bloviate on this site. Nor do I mean 'vote'. There is an answer but you have to be a Citizen not a Subject.
It's called: 'A General Strike'. Educate yourself on what that is and how it can happen. In the age of Facebook and Twitter it could happen a lot sooner than fascist scum like Kyl might imagine.
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July 13, 2010 9:46 PM
well its not surprising coming from the party that wasted billions a year on a false war. The only more efficient money wasting scheme is to drop piles of money in Iraq and then set fire to them. Its obvious they don't have a clue about what they are doing and who they are supposed to work for.
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tgh86
July 14, 2010 12:37 AM
Look at that self-righteous fucking brontosaurus Judd Gregg. Sick.
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Kiweagle
July 14, 2010 1:07 AM
Keep in mind that Bush & Cheney proved that the GOP never met a tax cut it didn't like REGARDLESS of the circumstances, e.g. surplus, deficit, war, recession, environmental catastrophe, large scale corporate tax fraud, etc.
It continually blows my mind that the Republicans still have so much support after half-a-decade of complete and utter failure while controlling ALL three branches of government! What possible excuse could they have that still allows people to give them the benefit of the doubt? And don't say 9/11, since they've already admitted that it was the best thing that ever happened to them.
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Duane Campbell
July 14, 2010 1:10 AM
I don't think that the Democrats will give in and extend the Bush tax cuts.
First, we need the money to pay for everything, stimulus, health care, war etc.
Second, this is not like financial reform or health care. In those instances the Democrats needed 60 votes to pass a bill. They gave blood, too much, to get each passed. For the abolition of the tax cuts they do not have to do anything. They are automatic. They don't need to gather 60 votes.
As for the argument of bi-partisanship. Well, the Republicans have clearly killed that one. Even the most naive can see they will not cooperate. We should demand that the elimination of the Bush tax cuts be allowed to happen. - with perhaps 1 or 2 small exceptions.
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ZeraLee
July 15, 2010 12:34 AM in reply to Duane Campbell
The problem is that the Democrats do not want ALL the Bush tax cuts to expire, just the ones for the rich. Middle class tax cuts and the AMT fix will expire too, and the republicans will hold them hostage.
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 4:09 PM in reply to ZeraLee
Just the ones for the job creators. . . so as to create more welfare recipients that they can use as a political weapon. That's how this stuff works.
Why aren't they just renewing them accross the board? If things are this bad now, with them in place. . . it'll be a bloodbath when any of them expire.
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ZeraLee
July 20, 2010 5:05 AM in reply to NonPartisanRationalist
Tax breaks for the rich do not really result in job creation. In fact, the statistics say the reverse. GWB rode his tax breaks to the worst job creation record since they started keeping track. We cannot afford any more voodoo economics.
Bush On Jobs: The Worst Track Record On Record
There is also the matter of starting to re-balance a desperately unbalanced and unstable economy.
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dustbunny44
July 14, 2010 2:30 AM
I hope someone (ahem) can keep front and center the message that Repubs don't care about deficits, they care about rich people pocketing government money that would other wise go to pay off debt, fund stimulus, health care, education, and more. And I know darn well what I'm saying - with tax cuts they are taking our money and giving it to people who are paying our senators to take it from us. That's what it is.
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July 14, 2010 8:26 AM
Interesting to hear the Chicken Hawk Tom Coburn weigh in. He's the poster child for the fiscal conservative- a medical doctor voting to send other people's kids off to war, and then voting against a bill to improve health care for returning service people.
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Joe Steel
July 14, 2010 8:29 AM
I'm impressed with the level of economic incompetency in the Republican party. They've mastered the art misunderstanding economic concepts and crafting bad policy based on their misunderstanding.
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Skybolt
July 14, 2010 8:51 AM
There is nothing hypocritical or inconsistent about this. Republicans believe that the government exists to kill people and to transfer resources to the wealthy. Anything that does not contribute to either of these things is a waste.
The ideological vomit discussed in this article is a predictable result of that starting point. Tax cuts are good because they primarily benefit the wealthy, allowing them to keep more of the resources they extract from everybody else. Unemployment benefits are evil, because they transfer resources to the poor and unlucky. This is the Republican party. This is what they believe in. This what they stand for. Why even feign shock at hearing them state it explicitly?
As for the voters and what they will do in November, they will probably reward the Republicans for helping to slow the economy. The voters have no clue how the economy works, or how the government works. They think that Obama should have waved his magic Staff of Preidentialness and fixed everything. He didn't, and he's a Democrat, so obviously we need to get rid of the Democrats. You can't beat stupid.
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Silence
July 14, 2010 9:59 AM in reply to Skybolt
Endless unemployment benefits create nothing and only serve to destroy the human spirit.
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vasu
July 14, 2010 10:06 AM in reply to Silence
Really? Destroy the human spirit?
Funny I thought sitting in a house that you can't pay the rent on, or buy food or clothes or pay for utilities or gas for your car to go find a job is what killed the human spirit.
Color me surprised that it is getting help from the government to survive during the worst economic disaster this country has seen since the 30's as the thing that might affect the human spirit.
Or maybe the gulf oil spill where more and more people everyday are seeing their livelihoods die and are suffering from Post traumatic stress syndrome.
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Silence
July 14, 2010 10:32 AM in reply to vasu
If you are unable to devise a way to support yourself after a year+ on unemployment, not much can be done with you.
This is the very definition of someone who can't find their way out of a paper bag.
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Joe Steel
July 14, 2010 11:22 AM in reply to Silence
Have you ever visited the real world?
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Silence
July 14, 2010 2:50 PM in reply to Joe Steel
I live it everyday.
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vasu
July 14, 2010 11:57 AM in reply to Silence
So you expect people who have been trying to find a comparable job to the one lost, that is relatively close to their original pay scale that will support their family, morgage, debt incurred while trying to find a job. To just settle and what work for MacDonalds? Go to day labor and pray something comes up that the 50 other people there with you don't get chosen for?
Oh and the fact that for every 1 position that pays a decent wage there are 5-10 applicants? Ya, they just aren't trying hard enough.
Keep following the GOBP talking points. They will do you well in the fantasy world that they have built. Those of us in reality will still strive to support our fellow Americans, help lift them up, while the GOBP continues to shit on them.
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Silence
July 14, 2010 3:14 PM in reply to vasu
When I lost my job, back in the 90's, I sold my car, moved into a smaller home, stocked my freezer with hunted meat for winter, walked or rode a bike most of the time and reinvested 75% of everything I earned back into a new business.
Yes. Change your lifestyle. Change your life.
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Skybolt
July 14, 2010 7:48 PM in reply to Silence
None of those things are options for everyone. More importantly, why should anyone have to change their lifestyle just because the company they worked for was run by idiots, or because Wall St. trashed the economy, or because the economy went to hell for any reason? They should not have to. People should not have to downsize or change their lifestyle every time some rich dickhead decides they're not making enough profit. Suckers like you are always there to justify cruelty and injustice. You are proud of the fact that you got shafted, and don't have the common sense to know whose fault it was. What a stupid coward.
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benintn
July 14, 2010 10:41 AM
Compassionate conservatism is dead.
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Silence
July 14, 2010 10:49 AM in reply to benintn
Yup. It's grow up time.
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red cabbage
July 14, 2010 9:40 PM in reply to Silence
You never replied to Skybolts' last post, dick milk, and you know why? Because you can't. Skybolt is right, you are a coward.
Grow up time? When I read your little, sniveling posts it's throw up time.
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BrightLightsBigCity
July 14, 2010 10:49 AM
What the Publicans want is for the poor, unemployed, and middle class to subsidize them and their friends: Rush, Sean, Joe Barton and BP, among others. It is time to step up Democrats!
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wendynyc
July 14, 2010 11:02 AM
With extended unemployment benefits, we're paying 10 million people to send out endless resumes and go on endless interviews for the same 1/2 a million jobs they're not going to getg. We're paying people to bang their heads against a wall. At the same time, cities and counties and states are cutting services because "oh we don't have the money, we can't afford enough staff to do that."
How hard is it to see a way to put those two problems together? How hard would it be to think of useful things those 10 million people could be doing for their $300 a week, at least for a year or two until the private sector picks up again?
Wouldn't it be great if public libraries were open 18 hours a day 7 days a week? Or if all those failing 2nd graders had tutoring all summer? Surely all those unemployed mortgage brokers have the reading and math skills to be capable of such work. All those unemployed construction workers have a proven capacity to do hard physical labor outdoors in all weather, so send a couple hundred thousand of them into the canyons to remove the brush that's going to be such a problem next time the santa anas kick up. Foreclosed homes need yard maintenance, city parks & recreation departments would offer a lot more activities if they had a lot more staff, etc etc etc. I hear rumors there's 30,000 people working on cleaning up the gulf, but with 1000 miles of coastline and all that open water that doesn't seem like very many. How about another half a million, we can bus them in and house them four to a room in all those hotels that can't get tourists this year.
Nobody would *need* extended unemployment benefits if we would use that exact same money to hire them to DO something. And even those who grumble that it's a low-paid crap job will still be grateful not to have a gaping hole in their resume.
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Silence
July 14, 2010 11:10 AM in reply to wendynyc
That makes too much sense. It will never fly.
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Joe Steel
July 14, 2010 11:31 AM in reply to wendynyc
Do you mean we should establish 21st century versions of the Works Progress Administration (WPA,) Civilian Conservation Corps. (CCC,) etc.?
Good for you!
We've been saying FDR got the recovery right the first time conservative economic policy crashed the economy. We're glad you agree.
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Rick Jones
July 14, 2010 11:56 AM in reply to Joe Steel
Socialism, socialism, socialism. Bigger government. Taking our freedoms away from us.
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vasu
July 14, 2010 12:05 PM in reply to Rick Jones
So the Hoover Dam is socialism?
Doing public works projects that better the nation are socialism?
Or is it because a democrat suggested it?
Because a public works program would be what this country needs, and FDR did this correctly and got millions of americans working again... But you know what it took? Deficit spending. But you know we can't do that unless it's a tax cut for the rich.
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Rick Jones
July 14, 2010 12:23 PM in reply to vasu
That was sarcasm, OK?
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vasu
July 14, 2010 12:29 PM in reply to Rick Jones
Sorry, it's hard to tell on here sometimes, cause you see the same crap coming out of the right-wingers who like to lurk on these pages and stir the pot.
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vasu
July 14, 2010 12:37 PM in reply to Rick Jones
And no, sarcasm is not ok... :P
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crazycarnypoptart
July 14, 2010 1:40 PM in reply to wendynyc
That is a very good idea and it looks like you have bipartisan support on that too. I recommend you put it on the America Speaking out website.
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Skybolt
July 14, 2010 3:17 PM in reply to wendynyc
So your plan is to force millions of unemployed people to do a job the government chooses for them, and pay them $300 a week whatever that job is? If the government is creating these jobs, wouldn't you expect the government to offer a decent salary and benefits, and have people apply of their own free will? Or do you have in mind a sort of public works press gang?
And on top of all this, you intend to house each of these underpaid, coerced workers in a hotel room with three strangers?
This is sadistic, authoritarian garbage. Public works projects are a well-established way of helping workers during an economic crisis, and if the government wants to hire people to work on such projects, it can hire them in the normal way. If the government wants to really help workers find quality private sector work, it can pass a properly designed trillion dollar stimulus and pass the EFCA at the same time.
Unemployment payments are not a favor the government does for people. Our unemployment system is an inadequate, underfunded expression of society's basic moral obligation to care for its members. Your idea of doing nothing but forcing people to move around the country working crappy jobs is ridiculous.
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July 14, 2010 4:14 PM in reply to wendynyc
Good perception, great beginning to solutions rather than stuck in the problem. Who to instigate this kind of program - if our Congress & Gov. could somehow manage to work together, these alternatives to benefit extensions could, conceivably, begin such a posivite & productive use of our resources - both financial and HUMAN. I don't know many unemployed people who are holding out for "a job in management" (to quote from a movie) and would be happy to take same pay to work--at least a chance to lead onto another vocation. But until the logistics of your ideas are figured out, which takes teamwork, to pull the rug out from under previously hard-working and/or tax-paying Americans is just wrong. I would hope that as jobless people collect their unemployment, their job-search activity is monitored and confirmed...
Objectionable re-instatement of tax cuts for people making over $500,000 (? or more) SPENDS a tremendous amount of money which could be used in infrastrcture, creating jobs of all sorts. And the extra money for the wealthy does NOT trickle down to the working class...it only creates more greed, less shared and cannot 'create' jobs. What a small or mid-sized company needs, it creates and the hiring comes along with each success; cannot always be measured in dollars...
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 3:29 PM in reply to wendynyc
I do agree rhetorically. . . The only problem is that programs like that require higher taxation to implement. Higher taxation of the private sector and on individuals will cause a further reduction of jobs as people spend less, causing business to be bad for companies who are already struggling (especially small businesses), which will be also hit with increased taxation on top of that, causing them to have to lay people off.
The problem with government models of economics is that they don't create any wealth. They rely on taxpayers to foot the bill. Private sector models of economics rely on the free-exchange of goods and services at the will of the people the company serves. It creates wealth, rather than just leeching it off of people who are the real backbone of the economy.
Government is not the solution. There is no magic wand. WE are the economy. We need to get the government out of the private sector so that. REAL PEOPLE (not political hacks) can get things done and get people back to work.
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Rick Jones
July 14, 2010 12:12 PM
I'm with you, man. That was sarcasm.
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lyris
July 14, 2010 12:21 PM
Let's see those idiots get the low paying jobs and see how they can keep a roof over their heads, feed and clothed their family as well as themselves.
I just have to ask, is there any intelligent life in the teabagging/gop?
What a group of idiots! They created this problem and have the nerve to blame us for the mess they made.
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Silence
July 14, 2010 2:15 PM in reply to lyris
No debt.........0.
How is this the fault of fiscally responsible, taxpaying citizens again? I forget.
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lyris
July 14, 2010 12:27 PM
I failed to mention that their idea was tried back in the late 1920's and it caused the Great Depression. What makes them think it will turn out any better now?
You do know what they call people who keep trying to do the same failing things over and over again with the same results don't you?
Idiots.
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vasu
July 14, 2010 12:34 PM in reply to lyris
+1
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wendynyc
July 14, 2010 1:39 PM in reply to lyris
according to Einstein, trying the same thing and expecting different results if the definition of insanity.
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Silence
July 14, 2010 2:59 PM in reply to wendynyc
That's right. So, don't sit around, waiting for a bunch of jack asses in DC to fix your life. They can't..never could.
You must create your own opportunity and quickly. Time is running out.
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red cabbage
July 14, 2010 9:43 PM in reply to Silence
Ohhhhhh, you're so fuckin' inspirational.
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July 14, 2010 3:56 PM
To hear Republicans explain their cut-off of benefits as an 'encouragement' (a boost?) to find a job...as if extending life-saving protections are a de-centive to getting to work is mind boggling. Adding insult to injury, saying "yes" to re-instatement of the Bush tax cuts (which IS spending) that began our economic disaster (joblessness) is unreal. Yet, typical Republican trickle-down TRASH. Jerks.
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 4:18 PM in reply to Katherine
The problem with trickle down economics is that it was centrally planned. We need to remove ALL central planning to the economy. Central planning is what's screwing us, not the lack of it.
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Alabama_Democrat
July 14, 2010 7:33 PM
Could someone PLEASE inform these old, wealthy twits that these sacred, most needed Bush tax cuts - according to them, anyway- have been in effect this ENTIRE time of economic crisis!!!!! Has ANYONE seen the people benefiting from them tripping over themselves to spend money and create new jobs??? NO!!!!! Somebody PUHLEAZE call BS on this crap the Republicans are spewing. I don't know one person that is getting wealthy off of unemployment- barely getting by but grateful for that nonetheless-, but I can think of at least every person I know that is unemployed that would like to have their middle class income level jobs back yesterday. Sadly, most of the people in my home state and others that buy this Republican horse crap don't have the time to really understand their positions because they are too busy busting their humps trying to make a living or looking for a job!
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 3:53 PM in reply to Alabama_Democrat
Oh? Just wait until they expire. The party is just getting started, my friend. See you in the bread lines.
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Skybolt
July 14, 2010 7:52 PM
You might be setting a new record for ignorant, sadistic comments on a single TPM thread. What destroys the human spirit is poverty, and the fear and injustice inherent in the American workplace. Unemployment benefits are only the tiniest requirement of a decent society.
Unemployment benefits are one of the most efficient ways to revive the economy. The U.S. government's failure to continue the meager, inadequate payments will cause more job loss and more suffering. But what do you care?
You are a fool, a chump, a sociopath and a troll. Please die in a fire.
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July 14, 2010 8:10 PM
Why don't you go after Obama and the Democrats for not pushing illegals out of 7 Million much-needed jobs???????????????
Additional unemployment wouldn't be needed if they would stop "allowing" illegals to work our jobs!!
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red cabbage
July 14, 2010 9:48 PM in reply to Mary
Mary,
Since you're into cut and paste, here is the reply I wrote to your first intellectual dribble:
Your logic is spotty at best.
Of course you have proof of "illegal" immigrants being given jobs over American citizens?
And if you did, it's not the "illegals" fault, it's the employers fault. Oh wait, I forgot, conservatives never blame business-it's always the employees' fault.
Parting gifts backstage, Mary.
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dwjoae
July 14, 2010 11:58 PM
Who are all you people? Almost everything you all say is non-productive. The problems with our economy is something NONE of you are even mentioning. Either you're all stupid, or you're all a bunch of liars. Some of each?
Who do you want to extend benefits for, those who run out now, six months ago, a year ago, 18 months ago, two years ago? How about we go further in debt and just borrow more to pay everyone?!
Let's stop with the bullshit and get off the Federal Reserve system. Pressure your government to lose the international banking cartel from our monetary supply system.
Wake the F#&$ up! You thought the housing bubble was a big burst, wait until the bailout bubble pops!
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July 15, 2010 3:01 AM in reply to dwjoae
Nothing wrong with these folks. They are getting away with it. The subjects, yes Jefferson was right the first time, have no clue as to what is going on. And seem to care...
...less.
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July 15, 2010 3:04 AM in reply to dwjoae
We are, pal, Citizens. Not Subjects as you appear to be and which Jefferson feared. Please take you dumb@ss rants about the Federal Reserve and go away.
Clearly you home schooling did not cover the aphorisms of M. Twain.
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 4:05 PM in reply to Philip
You mean the libertarian businessman Mark Twain? The one who was in favor of small government, free markets, non-interventionist foriegn policy, and individual liberty?
Do remember, liberal used to be that position, not the authoritarian cleptocratic dictatorship of "best intentions" like it is today.
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NonPartisanRationalist
July 15, 2010 4:02 PM in reply to dwjoae
Nice to see someone who gets it. I'm not going to make any direct accusations or anything, but do remember that the Pentagon had not so subtly announced to the media that they were paying people to go on comment sections of news stories, forums, and social media sites to conduct disinformation campaigns.
The biggest elephant in the room is indeed, the Federal Reserve Bank. It's the cause of the boom and bust economy that keeps throwing us into depressions and recessions, just like the first two central banks the USA had. THis is not to mention that they've destroyed the value of the dollar, which is making everyone a lot poorer, and unable to retain the value of their savings (unless they're in precious metals).
We need to get rid of the Federal Reserve if we want any hope of a recovery. I don't believe the Federal Reserve are going to let us out of the current depression without WWIII, judging historical patterns lining up with the current reality. Thus, the choice seems something of a no brainer to me. Let's see, abolish a corrupt bank that is ruining our economy, or WWIII. . . hard choice, I know. ;)
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