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Tennessee Lt. Gov: Religious Freedom May Not Count For Muslims (VIDEO)
TN Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey
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Tennessee Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey, currently running third in the state's Republican gubernatorial primary race, says he's not sure if Constitutional guarantees of freedom of religion apply to the followers of the world's second-largest faith, Islam.
At a recent event in Hamilton County, Ramsey was asked by a man in the audience about the "threat that's invading our country from the Muslims." Ramsey proclaimed his support for the Constitution and the whole "Congress shall make no law" thing when it comes to religion. But he also said that Islam, arguably, is less a faith than it is a "cult."
"Now, you could even argue whether being a Muslim is actually a religion, or is it a nationality, way of life, cult whatever you want to call it," Ramsey said. "Now certainly we do protect our religions, but at the same time this is something we are going to have to face."
The question, Ramsey mused, was related to the simmering topic of a new Muslim community center scheduled to be built in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. Ramsey, like many conservatives weighing in on the debate, mistakenly confused the center with a mosque -- which Murfreesboro already has -- and then proceeded to foment fears that Sharia saw would be practiced by Muslims there.
"Now, you know, I'm all about freedom of religion. I value the First Amendment as much as I value the Second Amendment as much as I value the Tenth Amendment and on and on and on," he said. "But you cross the line when they try to start bringing Sharia Law here to the state of Tennessee -- to the United States. We live under our Constitution and they live under our Constitution."
The community center (and Republican Congressional candidate Lou Ann Zelenik's merciless attacks on it) has become a hot topic in Tennessee, and it's likely that the man in the audience was referring to the community center when he asked his question. But it's also worth noting the question the man actually asked when considering Ramsey's answer.
"We've got a threat that's invading our country from the Muslims," the man said. "What's your stand?"
Today, Ramsey gave me an answer to that question that channeled Sarah Palin's Twitter feed.
"My concern is that far too much of Islam has come to resemble a violent political philosophy more than peace-loving religion," he said in an email. "It's time for American Muslims who love this country to publicly renounce violent jihadism and to drum those who seek to do America harm out of their faith community."
Check out Ramsey's fresh interpretation of how the Constitution applies to Islam from the recent Hamilton County event below. The Islam stuff starts at 3:10. (Note: the video, which was first posted by the Nashville Scene appears to have an edit after the end of Ramsey's answer about Muslims, though the full answer appears to be included and the Ramsey camp took no issue with the clip when I asked for comment on it.)
Note: This post was updated to include Ramsey's email response to the video clip.
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EnnuiDivine
July 26, 2010 11:25 AM
Lemme guess. Ramsey is another constitutional conservative.
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vasu
July 26, 2010 11:50 AM in reply to EnnuiDivine
Racist is the correct term
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EnnuiDivine
July 26, 2010 11:52 AM in reply to vasu
Actually...
Islamophobe, xenophobe, bigot, Dominionist, Christian Reconstructionist, et.al.
Islam isn't a race.
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ohyeathatsright
July 26, 2010 12:56 PM in reply to EnnuiDivine
Or a "nationality" as questioned by Ramsey. A nationality requires a nation. There is no 'Mulismistan'.
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MNPundit
July 26, 2010 1:07 PM in reply to ohyeathatsright
Muslimistan? I think you need to go with Caliphate on this one instead of trying for the new word.
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ohyeathatsright
July 26, 2010 2:33 PM in reply to MNPundit
The Caliphate is a set of guidelines for Islamic law. It's not a nation. Therefore, I have to make up a word for it...because it does not exist. Nice try though.
The only religion that also has its own sovereign nation is Catholicism with the Vatican.
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Mooser
July 26, 2010 3:17 PM in reply to ohyeathatsright
"The only religion that also has its own sovereign nation is Catholicism with the Vatican"
Don't forget Israel! How many divisions does the Pope have? bupkis! Israel has one of the most powerful militaries in the world. When the Catholics have nuclear weapons with crosses on them, they can talk.
And in Israel, decisions are being made which will define Judaism in a whole new way!
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ohyeathatsright
July 26, 2010 3:53 PM in reply to Mooser
That's a good point, but Israel still technically allows for freedom of religion. It's in their laws. Even to those that are not officially recognized are supposedly guaranteed freedom to practice whichever religion they choose.
In contrast, the Pope is the de-facto head of state in Vatican City. He is not elected democratically, nor is there any requirement of religious freedoms.
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BillMcD
July 26, 2010 10:59 PM in reply to ohyeathatsright
Actually, the Pope is> elected democratically when you consider that in order to hold Vatican citizenship, you have to be employed there - a state which, during the Conclave, includes the entire College of Cardinals.
And they elect the Pope.
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matts2
July 26, 2010 4:21 PM in reply to Mooser
Why? Israel is not run by a religion. The Vatican, yes. And if you want to get technical the England has one person as the head of state and church. And certainly the church and state are very close in Saudi and Iran and elsewhere.
Sorry, but the government is not re-defining who will be a Jew (not that this is slightly relevant to the topic), the government is considering changing which religious group gets to decide who is a member.
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
July 26, 2010 3:59 PM in reply to ohyeathatsright
It used to be a nation. Then it was a bunch of nations. Then it was the Ottoman Empire. Then it was something crazed fundamentalists fantasized into some a mythological utopia.
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Coyote in Boulder
July 26, 2010 4:27 PM in reply to ohyeathatsright
Prior to the invasion Tibet was a theocracy under the Dahlia Lama. This is something a lot of the "Free Tibet" crowd forgets - they're asking for the restoration of a theocracy.
It's not directly comparable to the Vatican City nation-state though since there's such a wide variety of Buddhist traditions and I don't recall stories of Tibetan lamas ruling a vast swatch of Asia.
(BTW as somebody else pointed out Israel is not a theocracy - the temple plays an important role but the state and the government are ultimately secular institutions. That's very different from the Vatican and the Catholic Church, or even the UK where the monarch is the temporal head of the Church of England, vs. being the monarch because he or she is the head of the Church.)
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connski
July 26, 2010 8:44 PM in reply to ohyeathatsright
Islam as a nation: I think Ramsey's unspoken line is that Christianity is a nation and that nation is America.
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Dave
July 26, 2010 1:49 PM in reply to EnnuiDivine
Look, the constitution clearly implies that only GOOD Christians should have freedom of religion. You know, free to build a church where you want, free to choose any color bible you want, etc... How could our founding fathers have even known about these other religions? Did they even exist back then?
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Dave
July 26, 2010 1:51 PM in reply to Dave
Oh, I forgot, free to choose which gun to bring to church!
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slb
July 26, 2010 1:57 PM in reply to Dave
I know this is snark, but I thought I should point out that Thomas Jefferson owned a copy of the Koran.
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BlindBat
July 26, 2010 7:22 PM in reply to slb
And his own version of the Bible, where he edited the miracles out of the New Testament.
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BlindBat
July 26, 2010 7:24 PM in reply to BlindBat
... and of course, he may have taken solace from the Old Testament's seeming acceptance of slavery.
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Beetlejuice
July 26, 2010 2:28 PM in reply to Dave
Well, the creation of the Islam religion dates back to the late 700 AD so it would have been know by the founding fathers, especially if they were as religious as the christies insist they were. I'm assuming, of course, they knew about the Crusades to win back the HolyLands.
And if you're basing freedom of religion on only known religions of the time the founding fathers wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights then Mormonism wouldn't cut the mustard...it didn't come into being until the early 1800's...a good 50 years or more later.
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Dave
July 26, 2010 2:45 PM in reply to Beetlejuice
Of course I didn't include Mormons. Don't they believe Jeseus and the Devil are brothers?
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BillMcD
July 27, 2010 12:05 AM in reply to Dave
Not to put too fine a point on it, but if Jesus is the 'Son of God', and the Devil is a fallen angel - thus, a direct creation of God (as opposed to say, me, a direct creation of my parents), then a case could be made that if we're to consider God our 'father', then the devil's got a much stronger case for the same claim.
Which would make them brothers.
Are Mormons nuts? Sure! But, you know, sometimes they're actually less nuts about certain things than the people saying 'wow, that's nuts'.
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July 26, 2010 7:30 PM in reply to vasu
Islam isn't a race.
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Chris
July 26, 2010 3:01 PM in reply to EnnuiDivine
Actually what he's saying by stating the Constitution doesn't apply to Muslims is the exact concept of Sharia Law. What he's proposing is the exact thing he thinks he's condemning.
Under Sharia Law it can be illegal to not practice Islam. Sharia Law does not protect you if you are not Muslim, it actually condemns you by setting aside separate and vague rights for non-believers called dhimmis. Republicans want this concept applied here in America, except that only Christians are protected by the law. It's the right wing looking at itself in the mirror.
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July 26, 2010 7:35 PM in reply to EnnuiDivine
Whatever he calls himself, his opinion, and that's what it is, is not backed up by anything in the Constitution. Also, his premise is false, if he's trying to argue that the Founders were anti-Islam. They were not. They were for any religion which taught worship of the one, true God and taught a system of reward and punishment after this life. So, the Founders were for Christianity, Judaism, Islam (or Mahometinism, as they called it) and others. Most of them were Christians, and none of them were Muslim, but they respected any religion which taught those two things, so Ramsey is mistaken, and he needs to be set straight. We should never allow a religious system of laws to preempt our laws, and I'm fully against Sharia, but it seems to me he's fear-mongering here.
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Prefabfan
July 27, 2010 9:39 AM in reply to Ben
+1
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John M
July 27, 2010 1:56 PM in reply to EnnuiDivine
Which means they uphold the Constitution when it is convenient, and trample the Constitution when it does not mesh with their agenda.
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ladyfractal
July 26, 2010 11:48 AM
Well, at least they are taking an important step toward being more honest about what they *actually* mean when they say "Freedom of Religion". They don't mean Freedom of Religion, they mean "Freedom to practice the Christian denomination of your chioce". It's obvious that's what they mean and have meant all along but conservatives have always phrased it in the more benign sounding "freedom of religion" language.
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EnnuiDivine
July 26, 2010 11:53 AM in reply to ladyfractal
They also don't count Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Unitarians, and countless other denominations as "Christian", so they, too, can be freely discriminated against.
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farnsworth
July 26, 2010 1:22 PM in reply to EnnuiDivine
Unitarians aren't Christians. So I am glad that the Christianistas correctly don't count me as one of them.
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DuaneBidoux
July 26, 2010 2:15 PM in reply to farnsworth
As a Unitarian let me correct you: some Unitarians are Christians. It is by no means the majority but in my Unitarian chuch I'll guess that maybe a quarter consider themselves Chritian Unitarians.
Many are atheists, a significant portion are Buddhists and there are even some Earth Paganists.
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wm_in_nc
July 26, 2010 2:21 PM in reply to DuaneBidoux
Right. Plenty of Unitarians (but not me or most of the UUs I know) are Christians.
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farnsworth
July 26, 2010 3:29 PM in reply to DuaneBidoux
As a Unitarian let me correct you. Some Unitarians are tall. Some are over seven feet tall. But one would never say ,"Unitarians are tall." In fact, if it ever came up, one would say, "Unitarians are not tall." This would not mean that no Unitarians are tall. It would just mean that "tall" is not an apt description of the majority of Unitarians.
Virtually all Unitarians I know would be offended by the idea that they are Christians. I certainly would be.
I stand by my statement: Unitarians, as a group, are not Christians.
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kevbo
July 26, 2010 1:45 PM in reply to EnnuiDivine
And they aren't even all that keen on Catholicism.
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donquijoterocket
July 26, 2010 12:38 PM in reply to ladyfractal
Got that. I wonder what this nematode has to say about the church of LDS?Maybe since the majority of them are white his statement doesn't apply.
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amike
July 26, 2010 2:35 PM in reply to donquijoterocket
Now, now, don't be mean to nematodes.
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jeffgee
July 26, 2010 12:49 PM in reply to ladyfractal
They'd keep a few Jews for the Rapture and cuz the "Jews are so good with money"
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windowpane
July 26, 2010 3:03 PM in reply to jeffgee
and smart...
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ScrewBush
July 26, 2010 12:55 PM in reply to ladyfractal
You're far too generous in that view. My wife unfortunately watches non-stop Christian TV. I once watched a young woman being interviewed who said, "I grew up Catholic, but then I became a Christian." The interviewer didn't even blink at the contradiction because if you're not an Evangelical you're not a Christian.
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vasu
July 26, 2010 1:02 PM in reply to ScrewBush
And she's still your wife? Props.
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Julia Grey
July 26, 2010 1:24 PM in reply to vasu
"In sickness and in health...."
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DownriverDem
July 26, 2010 2:22 PM in reply to ScrewBush
Your wife is so misguided. How can you even still be married to her? Talk about boring tv. What do you even talk about?
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Jack of All Tirades
July 26, 2010 3:07 PM in reply to ScrewBush
My wife and I watch the scary religious channel every so often to catch Benny Hinn, etc. Sometimes, there's even a good Christian movie on. However, the difference is we watch ironically.
Still, good stuff; we once saw a movie with that LA Law guy (Corbin something or other) and Mr. T. Outstanding!
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ahumbleopinion
July 26, 2010 1:22 PM in reply to ladyfractal
What they mean is freedom to impose their version of religion on the rest of us. Even as a Christian, that is something I adamantly oppose.
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July 26, 2010 1:51 PM in reply to ahumbleopinion
Most especially as a Christian, I adamantly oppose.
Many of the colonies were settled by people fleeing religious persecution. Not just the wars brought upon by Reformation internal schisms to the Christian faith, but also the calls for Crusades (and the little mentioned forced funding for those Crusades) against people they did not know or if they did, most often had trading relations with.
Between the Constitution and its apocryphal documents laying out of the concepts behind it and the Bill of Rights, any 'conservative' that claims this nation was founded as a 'Christian Nation' is only showing their extreme ignorance and even more extreme bigotry.
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Ugg the Repug
July 26, 2010 1:53 PM in reply to ladyfractal
No, they mean "Freedom to practice the Christian denomination of OUR chioce." When done with Muslims, they'll come for them Librul Christians. Even caveman know this. It fundamental. Har har har.
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DownriverDem
July 26, 2010 2:18 PM in reply to ladyfractal
They are Republican Christians (not true Christians).
Get it straight.
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Sniffit
July 26, 2010 11:53 AM
Sounds like someone spiked this dude's communion wafer with acid.
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bluesplashy
July 26, 2010 3:20 PM in reply to Sniffit
You hit the nail (and the nut) on the head.
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Ann Arbor
July 26, 2010 12:02 PM
Ramsey also would carve out some exceptions to the First Amendment:
--Al Franken's books would be banned.
--Olbermann and Maddow would no longer be carried by Tennessee cable systems.
--And no more whining from Bills fans about the Music City Miracle.
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jolly ranchero
July 26, 2010 12:12 PM
We live under our Constitution and they live under our Constitution."
"they" are Brown, and therefore not one of us. Christ, the racism is so overt.
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Matt Jones
July 26, 2010 12:16 PM
Wow, I know of another "religion" which has recently turned into a violent cult hell-bent on bringing about Armageddon and/or imposing it's radical belief system onto the country by way of attempting to take over the government. When can we start banning Evangelical and Pentacostalist churches?
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Mooser
July 26, 2010 3:22 PM in reply to Matt Jones
Yep, I read MJ Rosenberg's article on Goldberg pushing the war on Iran, too!
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The Coloured European Observer
July 26, 2010 12:17 PM
denouncing a 1400 year old religion as a cult by some Epi(s)copHalian with barely 200 years, if that, under it's belt, it would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.
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Powkat
July 26, 2010 12:27 PM in reply to The Coloured European Observer
Actually, Episcopalians derive from the Church of England, which Henry VIII formed after the Vatican refused to let him divorce Katherine of Aragon. So, about 500 years, but still 700 years younger than Islam.
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sagesource
July 26, 2010 12:43 PM in reply to Powkat
He'd trace his religion back to Jesus.
But then, so does Islam. I wonder how many of these nutjobs know that Jesus is the second most important Prophet in the Muslim religion?
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tinsk
July 26, 2010 1:18 PM in reply to sagesource
As well as Abraham and Moses.
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takamori
July 26, 2010 8:37 PM in reply to tinsk
and Mary, mother of Issa (Jesus) is also revered in the Koran.
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GeneralRipper
July 26, 2010 2:14 PM in reply to sagesource
So, he worships a RAGHEAD?
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Beetlejuice
July 26, 2010 2:42 PM in reply to sagesource
I thought Islam traces its roots back to Abraham...they are from the same root as Jews. Which makes the trouble in the Mid-East more of a family feud.
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calbearinillinois
July 26, 2010 3:37 PM in reply to Beetlejuice
Jesus is considered a revered prophet in Islam, as are Abraham, Moses and Mohammed. The two key distinctions are that they don't consider Jesus (or any of the others) to be the direct descendant of God, and Mohammed is considered the "seal of the prophets" or last of the biggies. Everyone after him counts for less.
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jeffgee
July 26, 2010 12:51 PM in reply to Powkat
Tough times for Catholics after the King's church became the only one allowed.
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benintn
July 26, 2010 1:24 PM in reply to The Coloured European Observer
Ramsey is a Methodist, not an Episcopalian, though I know the Methodist movement grew out of the Episcopal church in England.
http://teamronramsey.com/about
We should notice that Methodists in America grew quickly in early US history and dominated the number of churches during the Civil War era. The fact that Ramsey is a Methodist might not mean anything to him, spiritually or religiously. But the United Methodist Church denomination most certainly does not share Ramsey's views on religious liberty, the constitution, or Christian social teaching.
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Tamarat
July 26, 2010 1:30 PM in reply to The Coloured European Observer
doubt he's Episcopalian -- they're far too liberal. More likely Southern Baptist.
Actually, lots of the Protestant denominations are reasonably liberal. But they have their wing-nut population too. When I lived in St. Louis, the Lutheran church in that area was as rigid and tradition-bound, as sexist and narrow as any evangelical group.
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slb
July 26, 2010 1:47 PM in reply to Tamarat
Liberal? No, not all of them. There is a serious split in the Episcopal church these days, primarily over the issues of women and gays in the priesthood, and especially in elevating them to the level of bishop. The Episcopal church in the US has gotten ahead of the rest of the Anglican convention on those issues, and a number of more conservative Episcopal churches have broken away from the US church and have joined the Anglican convention in Africa, which is quite conservative.
Even the churches which remain under the US umbrella have significant numbers among the country club set, who tend to be Republicans. More fiscal Republicans than social Republicans, perhaps, but Republicans nevertheless.
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slb
July 26, 2010 1:52 PM in reply to slb
I should probably point out here that Tucker Carlson is an Episcopalian.
'Nuff said.
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BlindBat
July 26, 2010 7:34 PM in reply to slb
And Nixon was a Quaker.
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calbearinillinois
July 26, 2010 3:43 PM in reply to Tamarat
That'd be the Missouri Synod for you. They and the Wisconsin synod are basically the right wing of Lutheranism, with almost everyone else in the spectrum falling under the umbrella of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America or ELCA (not to be confused with hardcore evangelical Christians). ELCA churches can be anywhere from moderately conservative to ultra-liberal, but they all allow women to be ordained, can have gay commitment ceremonies and are supposed to be at least welcoming of homosexual members (although ordaining gay ministers is a bridge too far for a lot of them, the ELCA allows that, too).
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TXProgressive
July 26, 2010 7:20 PM in reply to calbearinillinois
The ELCA (formed in 1988) has never had any policy prohibiting gays or lesbians from become pastors (although many people assumed this). In the past, church policy was: If you're married, be faithful; if you're single, be celibate. Approval for ordination rests primarily with a synodical/regional candidacy committee. The policy was essentially "don't ask, don't tell."
Last August, the national church assembly voted to change the policy to allow gay and lesbian pastors who make life-long commitments to remain on the clergy roster if their congregation or agency knows and approves. It has caused an incredible firestorm within the denomination.
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jsdc007
July 26, 2010 12:23 PM
Where is Sharia law being imposed in the state of Tennessee?
If anything, its the worst, discredited edicts from the Bible that constantly make their way into our laws.
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jeffgee
July 26, 2010 12:52 PM in reply to jsdc007
I doubt this guy could describe Sharia law in any detail.
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mythbuster
July 26, 2010 1:16 PM in reply to jeffgee
Better yet: Can he explain how the handful of Muslims in Tennessee are supposedly going to force Islam on the other 99% of the state?
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tdispatch07
July 26, 2010 4:35 PM in reply to jeffgee
It would be as bad as "Sarah" (palin) law...ack! Which would be worse? Or would they be equally bad?
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tinsk
July 26, 2010 12:29 PM
You can break down all the code into a very succinct line: This country isn't big enough for two overtly aggressive religion conversion machines.
Christians simply don't want the competition. Why do you think the evangelical Christians like (more like tolerate) Jews so much? Because they're not all that interested in aggressively converting non-Jews to their religious beliefs. Oh.. and there's also that thing Christians also believe that they need the Jews who don't convert to Christianity to be kept around to die for the whole Rapture thing to work.
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biff diggerence
July 26, 2010 12:33 PM
Check out the inbred shitkicker in the background.
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benintn
July 26, 2010 1:11 PM in reply to biff diggerence
was that necessary?
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Tamarat
July 26, 2010 1:37 PM in reply to benintn
thanks. my reaction exactly.
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biff diggerence
July 26, 2010 1:46 PM in reply to benintn
Absolutely.
Lots of Secessionist chatter in the present day Confederacy. Let them get by on their tiny gene pool.
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benintn
July 26, 2010 2:10 PM in reply to biff diggerence
How do you know that the guy in the video is even a Tennessean, let alone an "inbred" "Confederate"? And why do you think it's ever ok insult people based on their appearance - let alone on the anniversary of signing the Americans with Disabilities Act?
I, for one, am married to a well-bred native Tennessean and when you insult one guy in the way you've done, you insult people like my wife. She's an open-minded, tolerant, well-educated, professional.
Tennessee is home to the Oak Ridge National Laboratories - one of the most highly-trained and scientifically sophisticated labs in the world. It's home to the Peabody Graduate School of Education - top rated in the nation in 2009.
And I won't stand for your smears on my state or my fellow Tennesseans.
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GeneralRipper
July 26, 2010 2:25 PM in reply to benintn
> Tennessee is home to the Oak Ridge National Laboratories - one
> of the most highly-trained and scientifically sophisticated labs in
> the world. It's home to the Peabody Graduate School of Education
> - top rated in the nation in 2009.
Tennessee is also the birthplace of the toothbrush. Had it been
invented anywhere else, they'd have called it a teethbrush.
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acf_ma
July 26, 2010 3:38 PM in reply to GeneralRipper
I told that joke about West Virginia, some 20 years ago.
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DownriverDem
July 26, 2010 2:29 PM in reply to benintn
The south needs to be insulted. They need to be made more diverse. If they had more diversity, they wouldn't be so ignorant. How else can you explain their hatred for the rest of us? They are Republican Christians that do not follow the Prince of Peace or the Sermon on the Mount.
I find them a total embarrassment.
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The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve
July 26, 2010 4:06 PM in reply to DownriverDem
You don't see anything even a little bit ironic in that statement, do you?
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BlindBat
July 26, 2010 7:37 PM in reply to DownriverDem
Maybe you need to visit "the South" more often. Broad brush much?
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BillMcD
July 27, 2010 12:16 AM in reply to DownriverDem
Yes, because insult is such a great way to get them to reconsider their position.
When you have a population that has (as the conservatives of this country have - as opposed to the conservative punditry and politicians, who perpetrate it) allowed themselves to be pushed into getting defensive about things, attacking is never the way to change their minds. If you want to just try to wait until they all die, that's your thing, man, but if you really want them to change their minds, you can't do it w/aggression
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Signalman
July 27, 2010 9:19 AM in reply to DownriverDem
Respectfully, I don't think you're going to win many people over down here by using that argument. Maybe you could try being a bit more approachable, collegial and welcoming, as opposed to being judgmental, condescending and arrogant.
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Mooser
July 26, 2010 3:28 PM in reply to benintn
"well-bred native Tennessean"
It's amazing what controlled breeding can do! You get that hybrid vigor. My congrats to whoever selected her genes.
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biff diggerence
July 26, 2010 3:35 PM in reply to benintn
Your last paragraph:
Written in 1860, it would seem.
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kernel
July 27, 2010 12:00 PM in reply to benintn
Ne'ertheless, Lt. Gov. Ramsey is an arrogant p.o.s., and another reason for me to want nothing to do with hypocritical "Christians."
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Commie Dearest
July 26, 2010 3:18 PM in reply to biff diggerence
Check out the inbred shitkicker in the foreground.
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It's Pat
July 26, 2010 12:34 PM
What the hell? This guy is talking out of both sides of his ass:
On one hand he's saying Muslims aren't protected under the constitution so to hell with them and on the other he's calling on Muslims to "drum out" the violent "jihadists. While I don't agree with the violent elements, why should Muslims do as he asks when he publicly stated their religion means shit here, according to him?Where the hell are the sane members of the GOP -those who value religious freedoms - and why aren't they speaking out against this type of exclusionary rhetoric???
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biff diggerence
July 26, 2010 12:39 PM in reply to It's Pat
Where the hell are the sane members of the GOP -those who value religious freedoms - and why aren't they speaking out against this type of exclusionary rhetoric???
(courting Planned Parenthood clinic bombers)
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benintn
July 26, 2010 1:02 PM in reply to biff diggerence
The assumption here is that there are Republican leaders who actually support religious freedom for Muslims. Is that the case?
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DownriverDem
July 26, 2010 2:36 PM in reply to biff diggerence
They were forced out of the party years ago. Besides even is a repub would speak out, Rush would have him kissing his butt by the end of the day.
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slb
July 26, 2010 1:50 PM in reply to It's Pat
Most of the members of the GOP care about their own religious freedom. That of other people, especially those who have different beliefs? Not so much.
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benintn
July 26, 2010 12:40 PM
I wonder what Ron Ramsey would say about Mormons...
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TJ21
July 26, 2010 12:41 PM
Lt. Gov. Ramsey sounds more aligned with Saudi and Iranian political values, than with American ones.
Islam is a monotheistic religion that draws the majority of its text and history from the Old Testament. Its been around nearly as long as Christianity and far longer than Protestantism. Muslim Americans have peacefully practiced their faith (with virtually no legal or moral conflict) for well over a century.
Foreign dictators and political extremists should not come to define American Muslims simply because they share a faith or heritage. It takes an exceptionally small and hateful mind to think otherwise.
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TJ21
July 26, 2010 12:46 PM
"It's time for American Muslims who love this country to publicly renounce violent jihadism..."
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
Its a page featuring hundreds of condemnations of Terrorism and violent acts over the last ten years by leading American Muslim leaders, the largest Islamic mosques and lobbying groups in the United States as well as smaller ones.
Or did he mean they should do it on a one-by-one basis?
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Redshift
July 26, 2010 12:52 PM in reply to TJ21
To them, if it's not covered on Fox News, it didn't really happen. And since it doesn't align with Fox's fear-mongering, it will never be mentioned there.
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ahumbleopinion
July 26, 2010 1:25 PM in reply to TJ21
It's time for American Christians who love this country to publicly renounce this insane, ignorant jihadism..."
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Hornswaggle
July 26, 2010 2:34 PM in reply to TJ21
Exactly, I came here t make exactly the same point. Millions of American Muslims who have been here for decades (before 2001) have been renouncing Muslim Extremism since 2001. That this man has not heard or refuses to hear is not their problem.
"Or did he mean they should do it on a one-by-one basis? "
Maybe all American Muslim should be forced to sign a Loyalty Oath before being sent to an internment camp? Would that make the "honorable" Lt. Gov from TN happy?
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jeffgee
July 26, 2010 12:48 PM
Expect Newt's "Beacuse Saudi Arabia bans churches and synagogues, we should ban mosques" to be a spreading GOP meme.
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slb
July 26, 2010 1:56 PM in reply to jeffgee
That would be rich, coming from a group that goes completely beserk any time one of the SCOTUS justices simply mentions international law in the process of evaluating a case.
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Commie Dearest
July 26, 2010 3:20 PM in reply to jeffgee
Yes, because we revile their behavior so greatly, we will imitate it.
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thepeoplechoose
July 26, 2010 12:48 PM
How a governor of a state can even suggest this is unbelieveable. There is just no way to arrive at this conclusion no matter how screwed up your logic is. It just cannot be done. Stating what the governor did in the particular way he did is flat ignorant. I know lawyers customarily define things in convenient terms, but there has to be a limit.
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July 26, 2010 1:58 PM in reply to thepeoplechoose
He is actually the Lt Governor and is currently polling 3rd in the Republican Primary to run for the Governor's position. Obviously, he is playing to baser of the Republican base. Though, sadly, I wouldn't doubt that it is his personal view as well.
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thepeoplechoose
July 26, 2010 1:59 PM in reply to Michael
I realized after I posted that I said Gov instead of Lt. Gov. My bad.
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Phoebe Fay
July 26, 2010 1:04 PM
I would argue that Islam is a cult to precisely the same extent that Christianity is a cult.
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bluesplashy
July 26, 2010 3:45 PM in reply to Phoebe Fay
And I would support your argument!
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benintn
July 26, 2010 1:07 PM
For those who don't understand the Tennessee State Constitution - the Lt. Governor is not elected by the people. He is elected by a majority of the State Senators - currently 19-14 majority for the GOP. Ramsey is, therefore, the 2nd most powerful political figure in state politics behind Gov. Phil Bredesen. He speaks for the Tennessee Republican Party, the state of Tennessee, and the Tennessee State Senate.
In other words, this is like Trent Lott when the GOP had the majority in the Senate, or like Bill Frist or Dennis Hastert or someone like that. This is a significant thing - and the voters of Tennessee are relatively powerless to oust him because of the way his district is drawn.
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DownriverDem
July 26, 2010 3:12 PM in reply to benintn
The majority in TN love him. They would not force him out even if they could. They hate Mexicans too who came to TN work.
They are Republican Christians. They do not follow the Prince of Peace. They do not follow the Sermon on the Mount.
They are decedents of slave owners. Think about it.
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Matt Jones
July 26, 2010 7:10 PM in reply to DownriverDem
Heh - unless they're part of the nascent Zombie-American revival, I think you meant "descendants" rather than "decedents" (meaning "people who have died").
I mean, I know some of them may smell bad - but not *that* bad! :)
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kenga
July 27, 2010 5:59 PM in reply to DownriverDem
Decedents is probably not the word you meant to write - it kinda changes the meaning more than a typical typo ...
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bluesplashy
July 26, 2010 1:08 PM
Dear god, what is wrong with this man? What is that stuff coming out of his mouth? In this country? What don't they get about religious freedom? He gets up in public and says this? And here I am stunned and amazed like I have never heard anything like it before - dear god, what is wrong with me!
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Ugg the Repug
July 26, 2010 1:14 PM
Ugg know order of elimination:
1. Muslims, 'cuz they "knocked our buildings down"
2. Atheists, unless theys repent
3. Catholics, jes 'cause they ain't real Christians
4. Gays and Libruls, jes 'cause they ain't real 'Mericans
Hope this helps. Har har har.
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RedMolly
July 27, 2010 1:46 PM in reply to Ugg the Repug
Ugg left out Jews.
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Ugg the Repug
July 27, 2010 2:13 PM in reply to RedMolly
Nope. Need Jews to prime Rapture pump. Har har har.
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Mrwilson1
July 26, 2010 1:23 PM
there is a background to this problem. A group of Muslims want to build a mosque in a place called Murphysboro(spel). There is a great deal of division there much in the same way there is over the mosque in New York City. You must remember now some of these people worship snakes, and the rest of more Southern Baptist probably the most evil concentration of people on earth. These people will die for the right to have their own religion, but by god you better have their religion to or else you don't get one
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Skybolt
July 26, 2010 1:25 PM
I really like how he thinks that calling Islam a "cult" alters its Constitutional status. The first amendment protects the practices of "cults" as well as those of "religions" and "faiths." They are all the same thing anyway.
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slb
July 26, 2010 2:05 PM in reply to Skybolt
Thank you! I was thinking the same thing. Where in the Constitution does it say that religious faith has to be part of some prescribed structure in order to be protected?
But to dismiss the second largest religion in the world as a "cult" is the epitome of ignorant bigotry.
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calbearinillinois
July 26, 2010 3:57 PM in reply to Skybolt
Some countries actually divide between established religions and "cults." Germany, notably (because of concerns with Neo-Nazism) has such a law, and used it to ban Scientology for decades. But it has no real corrollary in American law.
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barrelhse
July 26, 2010 1:25 PM
HATE 4 JESUS!!1!
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maya89
July 26, 2010 1:26 PM
to me all religions are cults.. they're all based on myths and irrational dogmas that are completely removed from reality.. freedom of religion means everyone is free to believe in whatever myths they want, and the govt has no right imposing any religion on anybody -- it also means freedom from religion -- no one can force anyone to live according to the wacko beliefs of his or her cult..
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takamori
July 26, 2010 8:43 PM in reply to maya89
please define reality
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drauz
July 26, 2010 1:29 PM
it all makes sense when you realize he grew up on the Animal Farm.
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raincntry
July 26, 2010 1:30 PM
So he does not favor the 4th, 5th, and 6th, amendments? What about the 13th, 14th, or 15th? What about the 19th? Why does he get to pick and choose which amendments he follows?
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Tamarat
July 26, 2010 1:42 PM in reply to raincntry
the same way the fundamentalists get to pick which part of the Bible they take literally. Homosexuals bad -- ok, they'll go with that. Don't touch or eat pork -- well that one is subject to interpretation (at least the interpretation that they can touch and eat pork). How about keeping the sabbath? (and having it be on the 7th day -- how'd this Sunday sabbath business start).
People who say that the Bible is the literal truth and they abide by it are almost always lying. They just are ignoring the parts they don't agree with.
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campbesj
July 28, 2010 8:28 AM in reply to Tamarat
No better example for Baptists than the wedding feast where Jesus turned water into wine. Turns out that was actually Grape Juice! You have to take the inerrant literal word of God in context sometimes....
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xargaw
July 26, 2010 1:30 PM
When these fundamentalist conservatives start spouting, I am always reminded of the quote from a man I considered a true Christian. He noted, "Christains never do evil so cheerfully as when they do it with religous conviction," Wm. Sloane Coffin.
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Sir Craig
July 26, 2010 1:35 PM
You know what the difference is between a religion and a cult? Marketing. That's it. Chistianity started out as a cult, as did Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.
This guy Ramsey is a typical toad - nothing new.
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johnnydoughey
July 26, 2010 1:35 PM
Our nation's brand of Christianity is completely whacko!
Just think for a moment...
Jesus taught his followers to forgive... both their friends AND enemies.
Jesus taught PEACE, not war.
Jesus taught his followers to LOVE their neighbors.
Jesus taught his followers to have faith in God
.... and our brand of Christians, who continue to say this nation was founded on Judeo-christian beliefs... are hell bent on protecting their right to have guns, protect leaders who torture human beings, vilify ANYONE who believes different than they do... and find a need to spend more money on military actions than feeding the poor.
... and all the while saying they are god fearing people...
I would suggest that satan is grinning from horn to horn...
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Matt Jones
July 26, 2010 1:49 PM in reply to johnnydoughey
Yep. I'm not personally a believer in the whole "end-times / Revelation" dealie, but one wonders why they don't notice that (according to *their* book) they're practically running the church of the Antichrist. "Prosperity Gospel", anyone? Do I need to bring up the repeated political (and in South America, physical) attacks on churches teaching "liberation theology", which is arguably the *closest* to Jesus's original teachings?
Again, to clarify: *I* don't think there are churches running around chanting "Hail Satan" - I think that anybody who reads Revelation as anything other than a cleverly-coded anti-Roman screed should probably have their head examined. BUT, if one starts from the logical premise of "Revelation is true", and examines some modern Christian denominations then the conclusion follows pretty quickly...
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Hornswaggle
July 26, 2010 2:42 PM in reply to johnnydoughey
See... here's the thing. Even the most devout Christian knows you can't realistically live by Christ's example. You lose to much by being taken advantage of, robbed, cheated etc. Anyone with any pride or instinct for self-preservation can't live the Life of Christ.
All they can do, all any of us can do, is live by his example as best we can and ask God (which is just the people around you) for forgiveness.
However, since they are the loudest and "devout-est" followers of this absurd cannibalistic blood-cult (hyperbole) they get to claim the mantle of Rule-Makers when they see something they perceive as a transgression of their unattainable mean.
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Mooser
July 26, 2010 3:41 PM in reply to Hornswaggle
"You lose to much by being taken advantage of, robbed, cheated etc"
Ridiculous.
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Hornswaggle
July 26, 2010 3:46 PM in reply to Mooser
Not ridiculous.
I believe that people can, on a case-by-case basis, turn the other cheek. However, over a lifetime, I believe it is an unachievable standard.
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BlindBat
July 26, 2010 7:53 PM in reply to Hornswaggle
Yes, easier said than done, human nature being what it seems to be.
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takamori
July 26, 2010 8:46 PM in reply to Mooser
don't gain the world and lose your soul;
wisdom is greater than silver and gold
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Reefdancer
July 26, 2010 1:35 PM
When I read things like this, it makes me ashamed to be an American.
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Subliminability
July 26, 2010 1:41 PM
I see a pattern here:
The candidate polling second in the R primary for TN-Gov just said mebbe TN should secede if Rs lose elections. And now the candidate polling third suggests Muslims aren't entitled to religious freedom. If there is a fourth-place candidate?
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EdA
July 26, 2010 1:47 PM
And being a Southern Baptist, like so many in Tennessee, is NOT belonging to a cult? (Ramsey himself claims to be Methodist AND a Sunday school teacher.)
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JenS2
July 26, 2010 1:48 PM
Ramsey also complains about the speed of the zoning change as he's a realtor and it should take 3 months. Remember the religious right getting all het up about planning commisions requiring all kinds of accomodations by churchs so they quickly passed Religious Land Use Act? What comes around goes around.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Land_Use_and_Institutionalized_Persons_Act
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Forrest
July 26, 2010 1:51 PM
If he loves the Constitution so much, he should be denouncing the calls of his opponents, his constituents, and the media to stop construction of the community center in Murfreesboro. Here's the relevant text:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;... or the right of the people peaceably to assemble"
It doesn't matter what you think of Islam, or how it's practiced in other parts of the world.
Until the people attending that community center show they're not 'peaceably assembling' then he needs to STFU and lay off of them.
If a religious group in this country thinks that Sharia law would be a good addition to our current statues, they're free to lobby the Congress to try and change things in that direction. If they want to start a whole city where local statues follow Sharia law, so long as those local statutes don't violate State or Federal law, they're free to do so.
It's time for conservatives to start standing up for EVERYONE'S freedom, not just the brand of freedom they prefer.
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pmccoy
July 26, 2010 1:52 PM
I just wish this nimrod would get the R nomination. The Ds desperately need him!
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Xanderthal
July 26, 2010 1:53 PM
Apparently, Lt. Gov. Ramsey prefers to worship at the Most High altar of ignorance.
(Just for the record, I AM a Methodist Sunday School teacher and I am deeply offended by his remarks).
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ejg3
July 26, 2010 2:10 PM
Another example of the faith of hate your neighbor but don't forget to say grace which has several branches here and abroad.
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EnnuiDivine
July 26, 2010 2:14 PM
You know...there's a certain irony here.
Prior to 9/11, the only Muslims in elected office in this country were Republicans.
Something about wanting to preserve family values, keep the nation safe, lower taxes...all those other right-wing talking points.
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DownriverDem
July 26, 2010 2:16 PM
Another example of southern Republican Christian hate. Republican Christians are not true Christians. They do not follow the Prince of Peace. They do not follow the Sermon on the Mount.
I bet they don't even know that Jesus Christ was a Jew.
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wm_in_nc
July 26, 2010 2:23 PM
Wow. He calls Islam a cult? The only difference between a cult and a religion is tax-exempt status, as far as I'm concerned. And the government should take THAT away.
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Jimtoday3034
July 26, 2010 2:25 PM
I really wouldn't mind the Muslims getting the heave ho, as long as the Christians are next to go!
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cmaukonen
July 26, 2010 2:35 PM
I would say that certain segments of Islam qualify as a cult just as certain segments of Christianity and Judaism qualify as cults.
C
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Kuyleh
July 26, 2010 2:36 PM
The Religious Right doesn't want freedom of religion. They want the freedom to force everyone to be their religion.
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DownriverDem
July 26, 2010 3:15 PM in reply to Kuyleh
They want all of us to be Republican Christians, not true Christians. Heck, if Jesus Christ came to TN today, they would hate him for being Jewish.
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Ugg the Repug
July 26, 2010 3:32 PM in reply to DownriverDem
Har har har. Also, "Get job, you hippie! Can't walk around all day in robe and sandals!" Har har har.
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mumbling2myself
July 26, 2010 2:39 PM
WTNF?
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jimson
July 26, 2010 2:53 PM
This reminds me of those infomercials where they invent a problem ("cleaning windows is so hard!") and then offer to sell you the solution. In harsh reality Muslims would have to be a super majority in order to re-write the constitution to implement sharia law, how likely is that to ever happen (and I mean ever since the longer Muslims live in the USA, the more likely they are to be liberalized to the point of them eating the new Wendy's bacon burger, and their kids going goth.
Hell, even the religious right can't rewrite the constitution despite years of trying.
Does he feel Mormons are a cult too?
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jimson
July 26, 2010 2:56 PM
Hmmmm. . . maybe this is part of that old meme where "if we allow them to teach sex education in public schools the next step will be pedophiles having sex with our children in the street and forcing us to watch!"
If we allow Muslims to worship in the mosque of their choice, the next step will be sharia law for everyone!
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windowpane
July 26, 2010 3:00 PM
Now I've heard it all! A Christian Republican politician from a state where they handle snakes during religious ceremonies calls Islam a cult - go figure?
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Signalman
July 27, 2010 9:26 AM in reply to windowpane
Snakehandlers are more likely to be found in AL and FL. Just sayin.'
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crazycarnypoptart
July 26, 2010 3:00 PM
Tennessee. Ramsey, like many conservatives weighing in on the debate, mistakenly confused the center with a mosque -- which Murfreesboro already has -- and then proceeded to foment fears that Sharia saw would be practiced by Muslims there.
What the fuck is a shariah Saw?
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Ugg the Repug
July 26, 2010 3:15 PM in reply to crazycarnypoptart
Shariah Saw is cutting edge religion, much like Christian Cleaver. Har har har.
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crazycarnypoptart
July 26, 2010 3:07 PM
so they will be practicing what shariah saw I guess, So what did shariah see?
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parisblues
July 26, 2010 3:12 PM
Why, oh why didn't we just let them secede?
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Subliminability
July 26, 2010 3:14 PM in reply to parisblues
There were people trapped inside, among other reasons (although less so in TN than elsewhere)
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Gordon Sewer
July 26, 2010 3:48 PM
Some animal religions are more equal than others.
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06STS
July 26, 2010 4:06 PM
Islam is a cult, but lovin' your cousin is just a-okay in Tennessee?
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Khaaannn
July 26, 2010 4:15 PM
"Now, you know, I'm all about freedom of religion."
Somehow, I think he is parphrasing the old "Blues Brothers" joke about music.
"Religion? We have both kinds, Baptist and Pentacostal."
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tdispatch07
July 26, 2010 4:22 PM
Our only chance to survive as a free country is to keep politics and religion (all religion) separate. Mixing the two destroys both. Exercising one's religion should be limited only by civil rights of others.
Resonable people (I admit those are becoming a rare breed) can argue secular concepts and civil rights and wrongs. But once you introduce law based on religion, most people will not bend a millimeter.
There are those who say we should have more religion in our three branches of government would advocate the same thing Afghanistan had. Those that say that it should be governed as a Christian country, I ask, "Which Christians? Catholics, where the Pope can substitute for our Supreme Court? Southern Baptists...there's a group that gets along well, eh? How about 7th Day Adventists, or Jehovas Witness?" Some say our laws are based on the 10 Commandments. That would mean that before Moses brought down the tablets, that there was no concept of wrong in killing someone, or stealing, or falsely accusing someone. I refuse to believe that society was that primitive at that time.
It's better to keep all religion out of politics, and vice-versa. Apologies if I misspelled anyone's faith.
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ErnestPayne
July 26, 2010 4:52 PM
Proof, yet again, that the amurican education system has failed for decades. It would appear that this creature may have traveled as far as the border with alabama once in its life.
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Diagoras
July 26, 2010 5:59 PM
Religious freedom is meaningless unless it applies to everyone, including Muslims and including the nonreligious and including groups we haven't thought of yet. If you are worried about Shariah law, fight attempts to impose Shariah law or fight censorship, don't prevent the building of mosques or community centers.
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NotBornEveryMinute
July 26, 2010 6:29 PM
Ramsey is what I'd call a REALLY STRICT constructionist!
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Denise
July 26, 2010 7:05 PM
This guy has a unique way of garnering trust...I'M A REAL ESTATE AGENT...oh yeah, they are known as trustworthy. Everybody loves and trusts them! In ranking the perceptions of people for professions being honorable and trustworthy, real estate agents rank just one step above used car dealer. No lie.
Hell, makes me want to run in the other direction.
A fundamentalist x-tian, and real estate agent. Huh.
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GeneralRipper
July 27, 2010 12:08 AM in reply to Denise
Isn't Oily Taints also a realtor?
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July 26, 2010 9:31 PM
There is nothing quite like watching the convoluted logic of a delusional right-wing American.
The question, the answer, and the context of the discussion are all perfect examples of why so many rational people find politicians like this so repugnant.
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July 26, 2010 10:18 PM
Using HIS line of reasoning, perhaps someone should remind the Lt. Gov. that his church doesn't "qualify" as Christian because it lacks Apostolic Succession making it a mere modern-day personality cult based around his pastor.
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boredwell
July 26, 2010 11:22 PM
If only the Koran called for the stoning of intolerant, fear-mongering conservatives, the world might be a better place.
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Hornswaggle
July 26, 2010 11:44 PM
This just in:
Pompous Man lucky to be born in great place my sheer accident of math says unlucky people should listen to him.
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Garry
July 27, 2010 11:11 AM
All the GOP front-runners(Bill Haslam and Zach Wamp being the other two)here in the TN gov. race are trying to "out-conservative" the others. For lots of "fun", google some of their gubernatorial ads. These guys are part and parcel of the all GOP TN legislature whose top priority has been to pass and re-pass legislation allowing guns in bars(no, I'm not kidding), and standing in solidarity with/threatening to pass a law similar to AZ's recent immigration law.
The disingenuity here is that illegals have flooded Tn for awhile now, ever since the Gaylord Corp(Opryland parent) couldn't find natives who could afford to work for $5/hr in the 90's, so they imported foreign nationals and housed them at a local Days Inn. This was done with no outcry from any elected official that I recall. Ever since that event, we've had many here and until this gubernatorial race, nobody seemed to care. Hell, the way these guys are carrying on about illegals lately, you'd think they were taking THEIR jobs. But I digress---anyways, the Obama election seemed to light a fuse under TN's latent(overt?) racism, so now the local GOP has xenophobia to add to their general demagoguery, all dressed-down in "good ol' boy" attack ads.
It's exasperating, but we're kinda stuck here, it seems. I'm gonna vote Dem. as usual to try to counterbalance some of the crazy of the all-GOP TN House & Senate.
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campbesj
July 27, 2010 1:17 PM in reply to Garry
I too will of course vote for the Democrat. Haslam's message about immigration is a bit more nuanced than the other two however. I would dare say you won't find too many Republican politicians anywhere in the country these days, who would take a position that is much different.
Ramsey is just loathsome in every way.
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lyris
July 27, 2010 11:24 AM
We've regressed since reagan was president.
What a shame we have bigots in the 21st century. I worked with Muslims and found them friendly, hard working and I never felt threatened by them nor should we.
The moment you start thinking like ramsey is the moment you let the actual terrorists win.
I wonder when ramsey and his ilk will start slapping on the bed sheet and the dunce cap with the mask?
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mcmchugh99
July 27, 2010 11:26 AM
I wish these Southerners would secede from the Union. This time we won't stop them.
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Noozprof
July 27, 2010 11:31 AM
And let's not forget that we all have Second Amendment remedies to parts of the Constitution that we don't like. Just ask Sharron Angle.
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Anonymous915
July 27, 2010 11:47 AM in reply to Noozprof
I think he's refering to radical Islam, which would not be protected under the Constitution since it would allow them to kill all the "infidels".
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jegan
July 27, 2010 11:45 AM
I see the GOP is handing out Stupid Pills to their candidates again.
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tpmoldfuzz
July 27, 2010 12:18 PM
Tennessee? Scopes trial! Think about it.
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campbesj
July 27, 2010 12:29 PM
I am a Tennessean and deeply ashamed of this man and his bigotry. But I find it very disheartening that there are so many posts reflecting hatred and bigotry to the people of my state, and therefore, to me. Being a true liberal requires abandoning prejudicial attitudes toward all people.
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rebeltoady
July 27, 2010 3:28 PM
The Tea Party concept of constitutional rights is clarified by Ramsey, rights for everyone we like at the moment.
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Sillytaxi
July 27, 2010 6:10 PM
The hilarious thing is that the audience member sitting to his right is dressed like a Nation of Islam member.
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babsinbuffalo
July 27, 2010 6:27 PM
This ass hat makes me want to convert to Islam.
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RKT
July 27, 2010 11:05 PM
Yee-haw! Bring on them 21st Century Crusades, by gawd!
Is a lobotomy required in order to become governor of Tennessee?
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campbesj
July 28, 2010 2:58 PM in reply to RKT
Well, since us poor ignorant hillbillies elected an effective, moderate Democrat as governor in the last election By Gawd I rekin' not!
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Hermagoras
July 28, 2010 1:37 AM
Figures that's he's a Tenther.
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vitor palmer
July 28, 2010 9:34 AM
Islam isn't a religion. Read the Quran, the hadith collections of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, the biography of Muhammad by Ibn Ishaq, and you'll realize this to be the case.
It's not a religion because Muhammad was supposedly God's "last, true prophet", yet he had apostates killed. That doesn't make sense. A true "man of God" would bring a man back through love, not murder him for leaving the religion. That's what a cult leader does.
It's also not a religion because the Quran says Muhammad is "a beautiful pattern of conduct", but when you look at his life you see that Muhammad had sex with a child, owned slaves, bought and sold slaves, had poets killed for criticizing him, slaughtered unarmed people, beat his own wife, and in general, was a terrible, worthless human being.
I've compiled a list of arguments non-Muslims can use at "Islam outreach events", mosque debates, etc., at my website:
http://vitor-palmer.livejournal.com
If you don't want a mosque in your community, print those arguments out, distribute them, ask them of the "friendly tolerant" Muslim leader.
Islam is indefensible. Learn it, and you'll defeat it.
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ps2os2
July 29, 2010 5:29 PM
Probably a closeted member of the Tea Party and a fan of Sarah P.
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