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Reid: Forget Ground Zero -- 'The Mosque Should Be Built Some Place Else'
Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV)
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Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) has now spoken out on the Muslim community center in New York -- saying that while the organizers are free to construct the project, it should be moved somewhere else.
"The First Amendment protects freedom of religion. Senator Reid respects that but thinks that the mosque should be built some place else," said a statement from Reid spokesman Jim Manley. "If the Republicans are being sincere, they would help us pass this long overdue bill to help the first responders whose health and livelihoods have been devastated because of their bravery on 911, rather than continuing to block this much-needed legislation."
Reid's statement comes after President Obama's comments over the weekend defending the right of Muslims to build the center near Ground Zero, which Republicans immediately pounced upon. Earlier today, Reid's GOP opponent Sharron Angle came out with a statement attacking Obama, and calling upon Reid to speak up: "As the Majority Leader, Harry Reid is usually President Obama's mouthpiece in the U.S. Senate, and yet he remains silent on this issue. Reid has a responsibility to stand up and say no to the mosque at Ground Zero or once again side with President Obama---this time against the families of 9/11 victims. America is waiting."
[TPM SLIDESHOW: Welcome To The Neighborhood? A Look At The Area Around The 'Ground Zero Mosque']
On the Sunday talk shows over the weekend, various Democratic leaders such as DNC Chairman Tim Kaine and DCCC Chairman Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) endorsed Obama's remarks in support of the Muslim center's right to build, and did not oppose the project. But Reid is taking a different tack by affirming the right to build it, while also opposing the project itself.
On the bright side, Reid's discussion of the relevance of the free exercise of religion isn't nearly as dismissive as House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-VA), who said last week: "Everybody knows America's built on the rights of free expression, the rights to practice your faith, but come on."
The TPM Poll Average currently puts Reid ahead of Sharron Angle by 45.7%-42.6%.
Late Update: Predictably, Reid's position hasn't won him any praise from Team Angle. As CNN reports, an Angle spokesman responded: "he must be really scared to be re-elected if he broke from the president after being his waterboy."
Late Late Update: National Republican Senatorial Committee spokesman Brian Walsh issued this statement: "While it's commendable that Senator Reid now agrees with Republican Sharron Angle that we should respect the wishes of 9/11 families, it's regrettable that he hasn't demonstrated this same independence from President Obama on the critical issues facing America during the last 19 months. Whether it was his backroom deal-making during the health care debate or his decision to ram the stimulus boondoggle into law, Harry Reid has consistently stood up for the liberal elite's agenda in Washington instead of for taxpayers in Nevada. Under his watch as the Democrat Senate Leader, Nevada's unemployment has skyrocketed to 14.2 percent, while families and small businesses face the prospect of the largest tax increase in American history at the end of the year. It's clear that Harry Reid recognizes the desperate political straits he's facing with the election less than 90 days away, but his positioning on this issue fools no one."
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Walter Mitty
August 16, 2010 3:16 PM
What a damn coward. Absolute coward.
I hope he loses to Sharron Angle. He'd deserve it - Senate Majority Leader losing to arguable the worst candidate in a generation.
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:23 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
*RELAX!* It's being worked out!
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Ahmedsaid
August 16, 2010 5:54 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
Haggard Harry(Thin)Reid knows he can't contradict American Athena Sarah Palin. Her power is ponderous & prevalent.
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Tamim
August 16, 2010 7:25 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
Agree 100% with Walter Mitty.
What a cowardly, morally bankrupt, and politically calculated thing to do, to sell out the Constitution. He has relinquished his right to serve as a United States Senator willing to uphold the US Constitution.
I hate the spin, "they have the right to do it, but they shouldn't build it anyway."
If they have the right accorded by US Constitution that Harry swore fidelity to, then the only opinion that matters are the citizens who want to built the mosque and exercise/practice their faith. Period!
Seems to me the only major issues Dems are willing to be one and the same with Rethugs on is: defending Israel no matter how wrong and bashing/staying silent regarding the inalienable rights of their fellow constituents who happen to be Muslims (Obama is a secret Muslim "slur", Dubai Ports World, mosque issues).
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J. Arthur
August 16, 2010 8:36 PM in reply to Tamim
This issue is a tempest and a distraction, and every cycle it's in the news is bad for the congressional Democrats.
There is virtually zero chance that the mosque is going to be relocated (What serious legal or political challenge has actually been offered?) And more to the point, the Republicans don't want it moved. This issue is going to kill in places where Senate Democrats are soft. And that's really the point. Frankly, the Democrats should be saying as little as possible about this, and instead trying to define this debate about the majority of Republicans voting against health care for 911 heroes.
p.s. don't kid yourselves, a world with Sharon Angle in a Republican-controlled Senate is a complete nightmare.
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Lalo35adm
August 16, 2010 3:38 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
Don't worry, when an issue is no longer important Harry Reid always finds a way to flip-flop and apologize, at least for historical record he'd leave for posterity.
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ADad
August 16, 2010 4:11 PM in reply to Lalo35adm
Probably. He'll just refudiate his initial refudiation, unless Angle breaches etiquette and immediately goes to the triple-dog refudiation, in which case all bets are off.
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EnnuiDivine
August 16, 2010 4:14 PM in reply to ADad
Damn. Now I have an image of Angle getting her tounge stuck to a street pole at a campaign stop.
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ADad
August 16, 2010 4:41 PM in reply to EnnuiDivine
OK. Now try not to think of a blue-faced monkey who looks like Sharon Angle.
Psych!
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expatjourno2
August 16, 2010 4:14 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
Democrats bitch-slapped again. And dog bites man.
When will they learn that the correct response to a punch isn't to duck, it's to punch back? The correct response to demagoguery isn't retreat, it's righteous indignation.
I hope Reid loses in a landslide.
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Tamim
August 16, 2010 7:27 PM in reply to expatjourno2
Good analogy.
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Eye-C
August 16, 2010 8:20 PM in reply to expatjourno2
I sympathize with your anger. However, wishing him to lose for his wishy-washy inability to stand up for what's right on the Islamic Community Center issue is cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. Unfortunately, his losing to Angle wouldn't be due to his craven stand on the issue at hand.
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Mimi katz
August 16, 2010 4:29 PM in reply to Walter Mitty
He is a coward. And really, what business is it of Reid or any other of these outsiders what gets built in the environs of the Wortld Trace Center site?
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SFCWallace
August 16, 2010 3:17 PM
What do you know...another Rightwing-teabagging-faux news- mind numbed Rushbot calling it the ground zero mosque again...
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ohyeathatsright
August 16, 2010 4:19 PM in reply to SFCWallace
TPM is complicit here. Just because they put write 'Ground Zero Mosque' doesn't mean they're not falling right into the framing that is fueling this xenophobia.
The GOP knows how to frame issues, that's for sure.
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mans_best_friend
August 16, 2010 3:18 PM
You disappoint me, Harry.
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:23 PM in reply to mans_best_friend
*RELAX!* It's being worked out!
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August 16, 2010 5:46 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
You appear to not understand Thing One about this debate.
You seem to endorse a complete change in how our society treats religion. Apparently it's OK with you to go from society where any religion can exist freely, without regard to the opinions of the majority religions, to one where the minority religion has to take steps to please the majority.
Basically, you've just pissed away the First Amendment.
Personally, I'm tired of seeing our Constitutional form of government sabotaged. The Constitution is useless if it only holds on popular issues.
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EnnuiDivine
August 16, 2010 3:18 PM
(forehead smack)
Why, Harry...why
You were doing so well, defending the Constitution while your opponent tries to dismantle it piece by piece. And now you come up with this tepid drivel.
It's the same kind of weak-kneed, weak-willed, wet-noodle response that got you the ridiculously low approval ratings you've seen since 2007.
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:24 PM in reply to EnnuiDivine
*RELAX!* It's being worked out!
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EnnuiDivine
August 16, 2010 3:37 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
When in doubt, turn to the Tasmanians.
You know. Because they're the most rational of ravenous Southern marsupials.
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Donald from Hawaii
August 16, 2010 7:10 PM in reply to EnnuiDivine
They're also nearly extinct in the wild.
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mans_best_friend
August 16, 2010 3:33 PM in reply to EnnuiDivine
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
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It's Pat
August 16, 2010 3:19 PM
I don't want Angle to win but I am very disappointed in Sen. Reid on this.
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Scheherazade
August 16, 2010 6:25 PM in reply to It's Pat
+1
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SCXboxGuy
August 16, 2010 3:21 PM
It would be nice if a spine was displayed, at least occasionally!
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:24 PM in reply to SCXboxGuy
*RELAX!* It's being worked out!
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mcc
August 16, 2010 3:29 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
What's up with the crapflooding?
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mcc
August 16, 2010 3:21 PM
It's a good thing I don't live in Nevada. I don't care how bad Sharron Angle is. I would not vote for Harry Reid after he said something like this.
Harry Reid is a bigot. If he wants to prove otherwise, he needs to immediately renounce this statement and fire Mr. Manley.
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Cool Blue Reason
August 16, 2010 4:51 PM in reply to mcc
More like coward, than bigot.
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mcc
August 16, 2010 5:17 PM in reply to Cool Blue Reason
I see no reason to give him that much credit.
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:21 PM
FOLKS, THERE'S A COMPROMISE IN THE WORKS!!!
Yes, they've got the right if they acquire the land rights, but State of New York will give them land, donate it, to build somewhere else! Paterson said. And they accept that. Harry knows this.
No need to hyperventilate, seriously.
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mcc
August 16, 2010 3:23 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
This is a joke, right? Aside from the matter that Paterson's plan is blatantly unconstitutional (giving away public land for a religious organization's private use?), Cordoba House has already rejected the offer.
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:26 PM in reply to mcc
As of yesterday, they had accepted it.
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martis
August 16, 2010 3:28 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
No they hadn't. And they shouldn't.
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:43 PM in reply to martis
You're like a one-trick pony on here. Yeah they did.
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FreeRider
August 16, 2010 3:48 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
They did not.
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SkepticalCidada
August 16, 2010 3:56 PM in reply to FreeRider
Fuck you, bigot.
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expat46
August 16, 2010 6:41 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
You got a link OT?
Personally I hope they build it in lower Manhattan no matter what the Senate Majority Leader says.
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SCXboxGuy
August 16, 2010 3:24 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
The cultural center is to be built there because the people THERE need it. What are they going to do, bus them out to the NY countryside? (avoiding the sure to be protests on the roadside)
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:29 PM in reply to SCXboxGuy
That's not the spirit of compromise -- my way or the highway. They have a mosque there now.
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mcc
August 16, 2010 3:29 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
The first amendment should not be approached in "the spirit of compromise".
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:31 PM in reply to mcc
Oh, please.
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Lestatdelc
August 16, 2010 3:33 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
Oh please yourself. The first amendment is not up for compromise. Sorry you have such frivolous take on basic principles of of our national founding.
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Lestatdelc
August 16, 2010 3:36 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
BTW, I think the phrase you were looking for was "but come on" (ala Cantor).
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mardam
August 16, 2010 4:33 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
It's not being built as a mosque. It's a community center first, with a mosque (prayer room) included.
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slb
August 16, 2010 7:36 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
Now you sound like Eric Cantor.
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SCXboxGuy
August 16, 2010 3:41 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
Yes, that accomodates 40 people. Besides, the mosque is only part of the project. It's to be a full cultural center, just like the existing Jewish one in the area.
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mardam
August 16, 2010 4:28 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
There is no compromise in the First Amendment. Where does it say "but" or "c'mon"?
And the "compromise" is unconstitutional on its face. Just another stupid, tepid, weak Democratic response to some ginned up controversy.
"Ooooh, but what if the right wing voters won't vote for me?"
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 5:40 PM in reply to mardam
This is Nevada, where reactionary lunatic Sharron Angle is 2 points behind Reid. Repubs plan for this to be a signal issue for them, like death panels.
As for the no-compromise stuff, I think it's fair for people to nurse sensitivities if they want to donate land for the center elsewhere and if everyone agrees. Yes, they have the right. And it's pretty tasteless, and if a good solution for all can be worked out, I'm always for that.
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dudeguy
August 16, 2010 5:45 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
Appeasement.
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August 16, 2010 5:48 PM in reply to dudeguy
Yes, exactly.
Let's appease the mouth-breathers. That's worked so well for us the past two decades.
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slb
August 16, 2010 7:35 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
Actually there are two. And both of them are extremely cramped for space. Why shouldn't they be allowed to expand as their congregations expand?
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Matt Jones
August 16, 2010 3:27 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
That's about the same kind of "compromise" the Jewish community in Warsaw "worked out" in the 30s, or the native population "worked out" with the US government back in the day. Both of those worked out GREAT.
If the Rethugs and their buddies think the WTC site is "sacred", why are they letting developers build an OFFICE BUILDING on top of it?
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:39 PM in reply to Matt Jones
"That's about the same kind of "compromise" the Jewish community in Warsaw "worked out" in the 30s"
*REALLY?!!!* Well, I'll be!
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slb
August 16, 2010 7:42 PM in reply to Matt Jones
If the Rethugs and their buddies think the WTC site is "sacred", why are they letting developers build an OFFICE BUILDING on top of it?
Isn't capitalism sacred? For sure it seems to be the Republican religion.
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August 16, 2010 3:32 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
That "compromise" is even worse. The principle here is separation of church and state not tolerance or how sensitive it is to put a Mosque in one location or another. The State of NY should NOT be donating land to one particular religious group. It should be leaving them alone altogether and telling the hysterics "not our problem".
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August 16, 2010 5:44 PM in reply to John
I agree completely.
So Governor Patterson wants to "compromise" by violating both parts of the First Amendment regarding Freedom of Religion? Not only does he want to interfere with the free exercise of religion, he wants to violate the Establishment Clause, too?
This is why every single public official should have only said "The First Amendment guarantees the right of this group to build a mosque wherever they choose."
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benjoya
August 16, 2010 4:06 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
a compromise? we get to keep a majority of the bill of rights? excellent!!! USA USA!!! (i bet the 2nd amendment made the cut.)
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GeneralRipper
August 16, 2010 5:45 PM in reply to benjoya
No problem, I wasn't usin' them rights, anyway.
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SleepinJeezus
August 16, 2010 3:22 PM
The world has gone mad, and our "leaders" respond with cowardice when confronted with rabid dogs lunging at their leashes. How much longer before they slip the leash altogether? Haven't we seen this before?
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mcc
August 16, 2010 3:24 PM in reply to SleepinJeezus
This isn't cowardice. This is bigotry. Harry Reid is not "caving" to the bigots. He is on their side.
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Lestatdelc
August 16, 2010 3:38 PM in reply to mcc
You have zero evidence to support your hyperbolic claim. Reid is being a weak sauced pander putz on this issue, but to claim he is being a bigot is unsupported.
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mcc
August 16, 2010 3:42 PM in reply to Lestatdelc
There's no basis to tell a religious minority to move away from the public except bigotry. Harry Reid says Cordoba House should move. Harry Reid is a bigot.
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FreeRider
August 16, 2010 3:51 PM in reply to mcc
Wow, that argument really holds water.
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SkepticalCidada
August 16, 2010 3:54 PM in reply to FreeRider
Fuck you, you preening bigot.
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rwc
August 16, 2010 7:15 PM in reply to SkepticalCidada
I often don't agree with freeride, but shutup already!
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Abomunist
August 16, 2010 6:05 PM in reply to mcc
*cough* Not the first time Reid's bigoted mouth landed his ass in hot water.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/09/harry-reid-negro-comment-_n_417406.html
Nor will it be the last.
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Parkview
August 16, 2010 3:23 PM
I think Harry Reid needs a little lesson in Mormon history.
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Bruce Webb
August 16, 2010 4:52 PM in reply to Parkview
Exactly the point I was going to make.
For a member of a historically persecuted church and one that has a very aggressive proselytization program enabling local bigotry is a little odd. Good luck opening that new temple in Nashville Harry! (Hint those Southern Baptists don't much like you any more than they like Muslims)
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Eye-C
August 16, 2010 8:45 PM in reply to Parkview
I completely agree. I just sent him a e-mail through his web site pointing that out. Perhaps more people ought to flood his site making that point.
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Lestatdelc
August 16, 2010 3:23 PM
Pathetic.
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:30 PM in reply to Lestatdelc
Uh, no...
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Lestatdelc
August 16, 2010 3:32 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
Yes. As is your crapflodding the same ignorant shit about a "compromise" being worked out.
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martis
August 16, 2010 3:36 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
Hey Sailordouche we see you have a new handle. As always, FUCK OFF YOU IGNORANT DICKBAG.
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Joekuh
August 16, 2010 3:25 PM
And just when I thought Reid was getting his balls back. Should've known it was too good to be true.
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cosliberal
August 16, 2010 3:27 PM
Way to show leadership there Harry - you spineless asshole!
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:29 PM in reply to cosliberal
*RELAX!* It's being worked out!
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Lestatdelc
August 16, 2010 3:31 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
Stop spamming the thread, and no, it is not being "worked out".
Reid, nor any other elected official has zero business trying to push for or against building a place of worship on private prosperity. Period.
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:41 PM in reply to Lestatdelc
Governor of New York thinks it's his business.
You can scream bloody murder that there's no compromise, but that won't change it. And nobody said it's not their right, just asking them to consider generous alternatives.
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Lestatdelc
August 16, 2010 7:45 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
SO what? The douchebag Gov. is ALSO wrong, just like any of the elected pols shitting on the 1st amendment over this issue.
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martis
August 16, 2010 3:31 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
Go to hell Overreach.
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:36 PM in reply to martis
No, no, no!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LTPRJqt2z4
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Lestatdelc
August 16, 2010 3:39 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
Please stop spamming.
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martis
August 16, 2010 3:43 PM in reply to Lestatdelc
It's Sailorboy, spamming is WHAT HE DOES.
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:45 PM in reply to martis
Who knew?
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FreeRider
August 16, 2010 3:47 PM in reply to martis
Overreach has been here for years.
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SkepticalCidada
August 16, 2010 3:50 PM in reply to FreeRider
Fuck you, you whining prick.
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August 16, 2010 5:49 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
Flagging you for abuse for your thread spamming.
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Davran
August 16, 2010 3:28 PM
Sad.
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August 16, 2010 3:28 PM
"Disappointing" isn't the right word. Harry is being a total idiot. Nobody in the US government has any business commenting on the location of the Mosque one way or the other.
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nova voter
August 16, 2010 3:29 PM
well, at least he acknowledged their constitutional right to build wherever they want.
while i don't agree with harry about whether they SHOULD build the structure there, he at least framed the issue correctly: they have the absolute right to build whatever they want wherever they want. the "rightwing-teabagging-faux-news-mind numbed Rushbots" (to quote the rushbot up-thread) actually think there is or should be an exception to the Constitution here ... or maybe that the constitution doesn't apply to muslims. big difference.
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martis
August 16, 2010 3:29 PM
FUCK YOU HARRY REID. YOU GODDAM COWARD!
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Ironcomments
August 16, 2010 3:31 PM
Weeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak!
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martis
August 16, 2010 3:33 PM
Is Overreach a new version of Sailorboy?
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FreeRider
August 16, 2010 3:42 PM in reply to martis
No, he's not.
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SkepticalCidada
August 16, 2010 3:44 PM in reply to FreeRider
Fuck you, bigot.
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FreeRider
August 16, 2010 3:46 PM in reply to SkepticalCidada
afpeiwrpaier-p09asdf-]9asf[pakf;afkap8ifaspfiapfia;lfmalfuapofuaopufasfua[ufao[ufaofuao[ufaouaf[oaufaodufa[ofuafs[ouad[oufo[ufo3r8038rdlfnjlvcxu9owruLRJDIYG9A7YRO V979LSJFI7AF[AFLAFJOR79P32WLFJFO7oafuLFJAFDAPO*FLFJorufOUFAFJpfouSORUFkn
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mcc
August 16, 2010 3:49 PM in reply to FreeRider
STOP CRAPFLOODING
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SkepticalCidada
August 16, 2010 3:49 PM in reply to FreeRider
Just call me "faggot" like you want. It's shorter.
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mcc
August 16, 2010 3:51 PM in reply to SkepticalCidada
Same to you: STOP CRAPFLOODING. What the hell?
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FreeRider
August 16, 2010 3:53 PM in reply to SkepticalCidada
Why when "whiny prick" suits you perfectly?
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SkepticalCidada
August 16, 2010 3:55 PM in reply to FreeRider
Fine with me. It's just a synonym for "faggot" to you, bigot.
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FreeRider
August 16, 2010 3:58 PM in reply to SkepticalCidada
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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SkepticalCidada
August 16, 2010 3:59 PM in reply to FreeRider
Fuck you, bigot.
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:48 PM in reply to FreeRider
THANKS!!!
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Phoebe Fay
August 16, 2010 3:35 PM
Pathetic spineless twat. I want Harry to be re-elected, but I so want someone else for Majority Leader.
Why the hell is he opining anyway? This is nobody but New Yorkers' business. The only - ONLY - role that any federal official should have in the whole thing is making sure that no one's Constitutional rights are violated.
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martis
August 16, 2010 3:39 PM in reply to Phoebe Fay
He's opining because yesterday the GOP said they would make every November democratic candidate go on record on this non-issue. And now the media are carrying out their task and the stupid fucking Democrats are running like scared little rabits. Absolutely fucking pathetic. I'm disgusted with where this country is going.
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Metzengerstein
August 16, 2010 3:37 PM
It is, sadly, not too surprising that Reid would come up with something like this. But one of the most disturbing things in this post, assuming it is transcribed correctly, is Angle's quote:
As the Majority Leader, Harry Reid is usually President Obama's mouthpiece in the U.S. Senate ...
Crazy as she is, she has stumbled onto something that rings true -- even if it's not, it's close enough that nobody much thinks that it's an odd thing to say. But why should the Senate Majority Leader, or any Senator, for that matter, be the President's "mouthpiece," on the Senate floor or off?
The Senate is a chamber of Congress, which is supposed to be a separate branch of government. Many would say, in fact, the "first" branch of government. But the sad thing is, Angle's statement is true enough that it doesn't shock anybody that she would say it. We have come to think of the President as the "leader" of the government who tells Congress what he wants to have happen and they do it, or not. I think this Executive Supremacy is as much a cause of our problems as anything else.
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condew
August 16, 2010 4:21 PM in reply to Metzengerstein
"... President as the "leader" of the government who tells Congress what he wants to have happen ..."
If only that were an accurate description of Obama.
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erwin
August 16, 2010 3:38 PM
I strongly recommend that Harry Reid (and everybody else) read Hendrik Hertzberg's recent piece in The New Yorker.
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2010/08/16/100816taco_talk_hertzberg
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farnsworth
August 16, 2010 3:41 PM
This is an election-year gambit. Teh StoopidsTM in Arizona, those who support Angle, are against the Cordoba House. Reid thinks it will gain him votes to take this craven stand.
What Reid, like far too many Democrats, fails to understand, is that no one who is swayed by this particular wedge issue is going to vote for him under any circumstances.
Why, oh why, do Democrats insist on this ever-failing strategy? The only votes this affects are those from Democrats who are turned away. This strategy loses votes.
I would be glad to see such idiots lose, if only it didn't mean criminals would win.
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braveomatic
August 16, 2010 4:39 PM in reply to farnsworth
Reid is obviously not keeping a firm grasp on reality here. If he were thinking logically, he'd never say things like "If the Republicans are being sincere..."
When in the last 30 years have the Republicans ever been sincere about anything?
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castanea
August 16, 2010 7:52 PM in reply to farnsworth
Unless you have a factual basis for your claim based on a knowledge of the Nevada electorate, I'd dispute you. I have no such direct knowledge myself, to be honest, but I have lived in neighboring states that have similar demographics, and I'd guess that it helps him more than it hurts him.
I guess we'll get a better idea when we see the next round of polls.
In any regard, though, I'll repeat today's mantra: We need smarter voters.
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farnsworth
August 16, 2010 10:54 PM in reply to castanea
I may be wrong. I have no specific data to back up my assertion. But I have a real hard time believing that there are enough haters who can be persuaded to vote for a Democrat to counter the people who would not vote at all as opposed to voting for someone who hates the Constitution.
A little off topic here, and again without facts to back it up, but...
It is possible that this place will be an outreach. It is possible that this place will help heal the wounds caused by the attacks. Probably only means I am a dreamer, but wouldn't it be nice.
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castanea
August 16, 2010 11:55 PM in reply to farnsworth
You may call yourself a dreamer, but you are not the only one. The hurdle I see is the 800-pound gorilla in 21st century America: those of us who tend to be more broad-minded and sane would see the Cordoba House as an outreach place to heal differences, those of us who tend not to be, wouldn't. Whereas I'd hope that some of the latter would be transformed, I have my doubts that they are capable of changing.
With regard to Reid's stance helping him in Nevada, I wouldn't necessarily call the people who would vote for him on account of his position "haters." I've always sensed a cognitive dissonance from folks in the Great Basin area. Some are overt racists, of course. Others would get chapped at something like Cordoba House 2,000 miles away, but on a personal level would tend to be more human and less hateful. I can't explain it; I've just observed it.
Out of intellectual curiosity alone, I'd like to see an anthropological study of the people who today think of Ground Zero as being "hallowed," compared to their attitudes about New York and New Yorkers on September 10, 2001. People who I'd wager tended to loathe New York--and who perhaps even looked on the towers themselves as symbolizing eastern elitism--have become enthralled with the "sacredness" of Ground Zero.
Maybe it's just a case of a certain group of demographics in the US lacking any major shrine of loss or hardship deciding to adopt Ground Zero in a quest for identity.
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farnsworth
August 17, 2010 1:30 AM in reply to castanea
That is really insightful. I bet you are right.
The last time there was war on American soil was Attu and Kiska in the Aleutian Islands during WWII. The last time there was war in the Continental US was the Civil War. Treating the WTC site as a battlefield with the attendant emotional ties is almost certainly a large part of what is happening here. Just look at the way that Civil War battlefields are treated in the South.
Props to you for that one.
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SqueakyRat
August 16, 2010 8:27 PM in reply to farnsworth
Opposition to Cordoba house is polling very well among the American public. Harry can't help it a huge percentage of Americans are dolts who have never heard of the Bill of Rights.
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kspin
August 16, 2010 3:45 PM
Better Democrats, please.
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August 16, 2010 3:45 PM
I am inclined to cut him some slack. He is running for office in a state in which 41% of the voters think that Sharron F-ing Angle would be a good U.S. Senator. As standup comedians say, you have to find the level of the room.
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 3:50 PM in reply to Ortho
He's only leading by two points! And these mosque-builders are going to get everything they want, and Harry knows that.
We could literally have this "Second-American-remedies" loon as a U.S. Senator!
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FreeRider
August 16, 2010 3:56 PM in reply to Overreach THIS!
Do you really think this will be a deciding factor for Navada voters when unemployment there is near 13% and they have record foreclosures?
Geez, get a clue!
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SkepticalCidada
August 16, 2010 3:57 PM in reply to FreeRider
Fuck you, you obnoxios bigot.
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 5:43 PM in reply to FreeRider
Yes, it will be significant if not handled right.
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ohyeathatsright
August 16, 2010 3:52 PM in reply to Ortho
A perfect reason to stand for a position so completely subversive to our Constitution. Give ME a break.
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castanea
August 16, 2010 4:17 PM in reply to Ortho
I agree. In this case, Reid is not playing to a national audience in his role of majority leader, he is playing to the audience of voters back home in Nevada during an election year.
People who are so critical of Reid in this case are more than welcome to relocate to Tonopah, or Elko, or Battle Mountain, and give Reid the electoral advantage he'd need to be able to follow the lead of more sensible politicians in safe districts/states. They are also free to move to Nevada and run against Reid in the primary in 2016, if he wins this time around.
Otherwise, they should pipe down. Accusations of cowardice ring false from people who have nothing to lose.
Look, America doesn't need better Democrats. America needs smarter voters--in addition to people on the right waking up from their dreams of fighting the Revolutionary or Civil wars all over again, that includes people on the left accepting that one cannot be a great shining light of progressive politics and hope to be elected in states such as Nevada.
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August 16, 2010 4:35 PM in reply to castanea
Which is, essentially, what Gibbs—in a much less eloquent way than Castenea—was suggesting in his rant against the "professional left." This U.S. isn't a Constitutional monarchy in which the ruling party in Parliament gets to dictate terms. Congress has built so many safeguards against what Tocqueville called "the tyranny of the majority" (filibusters, 2/3 majorities, etc.) that compromise is essential in our representative democracy.
Like it or not, sometimes you have to dance with the devil in the pale moonlight.
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SleepinJeezus
August 16, 2010 5:10 PM in reply to castanea
Oh, I get it now! Harry Reid "I stand for election - and damned little else!"
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August 16, 2010 3:47 PM
This is shameful. All of the members of Congress took an oath to defend the Constitution along with President Obama, and I think that not defending the rights of Muslims in NYC to build Cordoba House is a failure to live up to that oath of office. Any member of Congress who fails to defend the Constitution should resign from, or be expelled, from Congress and be quick about it.
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Douglashh
August 16, 2010 3:47 PM
What the fuck is the matter with Reid anyway?
We have a bunch of idiot wingnuts on the right and a bunch of lilly livered cowards on the left.
No more donations to the DNC, sorry guys the wallet just closed for good.
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FreeRider
August 16, 2010 3:50 PM in reply to Douglashh
The DNC has a different position than Reid but you're going to penalize the DNC?
I'm sure Reid gives a shit about not getting your $50 since he has $25 million for his senate race.
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SkepticalCidada
August 16, 2010 3:52 PM in reply to FreeRider
Fuck you, you gay-hating bigot.
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mcc
August 16, 2010 4:08 PM in reply to FreeRider
As a general, abstract philosophical point not particularly related to this thread, it is usually a good idea to donate to individual candidates rather than party campaign committees because party campaign committees may turn around and use that money to support candidates who do not reflect your values. Aside from this, as an individual, small-dollar donor, the actual money amount you personally donate will usually be negligible compared to the overall fundraising total, so a large component of the importance of the donation is tied up in the message sent by donating. For this reason it is a good idea to select donations such that they send the clearest possible message; donations to party campaign committees communicate little about your motivations in donating, and therefore are probably not the best use of money.
...However this point may not be relevant since I do not get the sense Douglashh was referring specifically to the Democratic National Committee when he said "the DNC".
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FreeRider
August 16, 2010 4:11 PM in reply to mcc
Just because he said DNC didn't mean he was talking about the DNC, right? {rolling eyes}
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SkepticalCidada
August 16, 2010 4:12 PM in reply to FreeRider
Fuck you, bigot.
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mcc
August 16, 2010 4:13 PM in reply to FreeRider
"Just because he said DNC didn't mean he was talking about the DNC, right?"
Well, he might have been simply saying "the DNC" as a synonym for "Democrats" because he was too angry to be precise.
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FreeRider
August 16, 2010 4:17 PM in reply to mcc
Or he might have meant DNC. Why blame all Democrats for Reid's stance when many Democrats disagree with Reid? It's typical "let's trash the democrats" mentality.
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SkepticalCidada
August 16, 2010 4:20 PM in reply to FreeRider
Fuck you, you whining prick.
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T Groan
August 16, 2010 3:52 PM in reply to Douglashh
The point to remember is both parties are right wing parties with the dumbocrats marginally a little to the left of the rethuglicans. Somehow this allows them and their sycophants( flea rider, losergirl, and other obamba devotees) to believe themselves liberal or progressive when in reality they are not.
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FreeRider
August 16, 2010 4:01 PM in reply to T Groan
Groan . . . . . LMAO!
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SkepticalCidada
August 16, 2010 4:02 PM in reply to FreeRider
Fuck you, bigot.
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T Groan
August 16, 2010 4:05 PM in reply to FreeRider
Turn away from the mirror, turn away from the mirror. Maybe try some new meds.
I usually prefer progressive sites as opposed to propaganda sites but every now and them come here for a good laugh and a shake of the head. The pretensions of people like you make me sick. As I've said before there's little if any difference between you and a W devotee.
Couldn't help but see that you are still up your same idiotic obama, dumbocrat boosterism.
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FreeRider
August 16, 2010 4:09 PM in reply to T Groan
Groan . . . .. . . LOL!
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SkepticalCidada
August 16, 2010 4:10 PM in reply to FreeRider
Fuck you, bigot.
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farnsworth
August 16, 2010 6:57 PM in reply to T Groan
You are very very stupid.
That is the best that can be said of you.
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gharlane
August 16, 2010 4:12 PM in reply to Douglashh
No more donations to the DNC, sorry guys the wallet just closed for good.
Democracy for America, Blue America PAC, ActBlue (where you can set up your own donations page or use others'), Progressive Change Campaign Committee -- lots of good places to donate that bypass the Village insider protection rackets known as the DNC, DCCC and DSCC.
Whenever someone from the D(NSC)C(C) calls me I tell them I am donating to Democrats, just not to them.
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T Groan
August 16, 2010 3:48 PM
Just wait, the dumbocrats will do much worse. They'll probably cave on the Bush taxcuts and watch out they're eventually coming after social security.
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FreeRider
August 16, 2010 4:02 PM in reply to T Groan
Groan some more . . . .. . LMAO!
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SkepticalCidada
August 16, 2010 4:03 PM in reply to FreeRider
Fuck you, bigot.
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Lestatdelc
August 16, 2010 7:47 PM in reply to SkepticalCidada
Stop spamming please.
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August 16, 2010 3:49 PM
One question keeps bugging me about this manufactured controversy. Who cares what the rest of the country thinks? I have seen a variety of polls that show that New Yorkers are split just about evenly on the issue.
Put a binding referendum on the ballot in November. Then, rest of the country, STFU.
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EnnuiDivine
August 16, 2010 3:53 PM in reply to Ortho
I'm assuming that's a binding referendum ONLY in New York City?
And that still strikes at the heart of the issue here: who is the majority to decide what rights a minority should or should not have? Californians supporting Prop 8 thought it was their right to deny gay Californians the right to marry. Did they vote to round up and intern all the gays? Nope. Are (most) people advocating Muslims be rounded up and interned? Nope. Doesn't make it right for the will of the majority to stamp out selective rights of the minority.
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martis
August 16, 2010 4:01 PM in reply to Ortho
i live in NYC and i work about 3 blocks from the WTC site. they are building this community center in an old Burlington Coat Factory 3 blocks south of the WTC construction site. Just down the street from a nasty strip joint and some porn shops. Seriously this was a non-issue until a few bigots powered by Murdoch rags got the ear of right-wing blogs then onto Fox, etc etc etc. ... until the leader of the Congressional Democrats comes down on the side of bigotry and anti-Constutionality. The GOP scum couldn't have scripted it any better.
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August 16, 2010 3:59 PM
What's the health bill got to do with the mosque?
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Ironcomments
August 16, 2010 4:00 PM
Spineless pos. This is the time a Senator dreams of where he/she can confidently stand on their position with the complete and utter support of the U.S. constitution.
This is the true test of an open and democratic society.
Democrats quit allowing the Republicans to play you like idiots. Fucking stand up to this right wing bullshit.
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August 16, 2010 4:00 PM
Ennui:
I was only being half-serious. Sorry, the sarcasm didn't translate. I am just sick of Texans, Nevadans, Alaskans, and Minnesotans weighing in on the issue. The NYC city council approved the damned thing; it is two blocks from Ground Zero; and the First Amendment protects freedom of religious practice. Enough already.
I work every day with 400 of the gentlest, most respectful, hardest working people I have ever met, Muslim students at the school where I teach. It is for them that this whole controversy angers me. I guarantee that 90% of the people who are so exercised about this mosque have never met dined with a Muslim, never invited Muslims to their homes, or know the first damned thing about the Q'ran.
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martis
August 16, 2010 4:03 PM in reply to Ortho
of course they haven't ... they are racist, bigoted scum. they hate The Other.
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August 16, 2010 4:12 PM in reply to martis
Oh, and by the way, I am a pasty-faced Irish Catholic who teaches in suburban public school, lest any detractors think that I am an agent of the infidel.
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Squire T
August 16, 2010 4:20 PM in reply to Ortho
"it is two blocks from Ground Zero"
Actually I believe its 5 blocks from GZ, with a 16 story building in the way so you cant even see the building from GZ.
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ronik
August 16, 2010 6:19 PM in reply to Squire T
But really, what difference does that even make? Who cares how far it is from another piece of property? As long as the building in question meets all of New York City's building codes and requirements, why should anything else be taken under consideration?
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slb
August 16, 2010 8:06 PM in reply to Squire T
No; two blocks is about right. Check out the map at the beginning of the slide show of the neighborhood that TPM has put together.
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slb
August 16, 2010 8:07 PM in reply to slb
And there are LOTS of much taller buildings surrounding it.
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Squire T
August 17, 2010 8:58 AM in reply to slb
Yeah. I had a look at the map and you're right. Thanks for pointing that out.
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EnnuiDivine
August 16, 2010 4:23 PM in reply to Ortho
Yah. And sorry if that reply seemed a bit pointed.
The entire situation is an election year non-issue.
Bush and other Repubs won in 2004 with his campaign's constant drilling of "fear and queers" into the public psyche.
The message became clear: vote Republican or get blown up by terrorists and watch "traditional family values" be blown up by monogamous gays marrying each other.
The Repubs have always been horrendous at governing...and very, very good at fearmongering their way into power.
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August 16, 2010 4:41 PM in reply to EnnuiDivine
No apology necessary, Ennui—my clumsy prose was to blame.
As for the Right, I finally figured out the other night how they keep getting elected. They can pull out graphs and statistics and polls and just snake charm the electorate with very convincing, seemingly logical arguments.
Often, all the Left can do is respond with words like "compassion," "tolerance," and "humanity." Glenn Beck is much more effective with his audience than is Rachel Maddow with hers because she doesn't whip out a blackboard with all kinds of convoluted Venn diagrams. She looks into the camera and says, "This is not right."
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benjoya
August 16, 2010 4:03 PM
how bout this harry, you don't tell us where to build mosques, we won't tell you where to build your whorehouses. (they must love that at his church -- 'hm, pimping and whoring does bring in money, which means it's what the lord wants...')
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go2goal
August 16, 2010 4:04 PM
Hey Harry....what would you say if it was a Mormon Temple?
Harry isn't a democrat.....as bad as Sharon Angle is, I now hope she beats Reid to a pulp. This worthless jelly fish of a senate leader needs to go.....good bye Harry!
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AdAbsurdum
August 16, 2010 4:04 PM
Save your wrath folks, after months of president Obama being described as pusillanimous, just about every single other prominent Democrat, especially our epic liberal warriors, will be jelly-spined over this issue. The otherwise clear-spoken Anthony Wiener's statement requires a Rosetta stone for its meaning to be decoded, and that will be the best we'll get from our Democratic Congress which has so far backed away from supporting the President over closing Guantanamo, over pressuring Israel to end new construction in the occupied territories, and now over this. The pusillanimity is just beginning.
So far, crickets from Grayson. Say it ain't so. I do hope to be proven wrong.
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Got Kids
August 16, 2010 4:32 PM in reply to AdAbsurdum
History will not be kind to the likes of Harry Reid.
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Virginia
August 16, 2010 4:05 PM
I don't particularly like it, but I am pretty much persuaded by the argument that this issue just isn't important enough to risk losing an election over.
I care about health care, jobs, energy, the environment. Whether or not there's a mosque in lower Manhattan? Not so much.
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August 16, 2010 4:07 PM
Many of the opponents of the mosque are so concerned about its proximity to Ground Zero, calling the site "hallowed ground."
Guess what is currently across the street from Ground Zero?
A Burger King.
What a shining monument to the victims of 9/11: a place where you can get a sandwich with four beef patties and three slices of bacon. Now, THAT'S American!
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Thinking-Independent
August 16, 2010 4:22 PM in reply to Ortho
I would venture that if the only thing the 9/11 hijackers had in common was that they worked at Burger King and there were videos of Burger King executives celebrating as word of the attack made its way around the world there would not be one there. A quite possibly none anywhere in the USA.
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August 16, 2010 4:29 PM in reply to Thinking-Independent
Which would make no sense, either.
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Thinking-Independent
August 16, 2010 4:50 PM in reply to Ortho
Do people's high emotions ever make sense to everyone?
Society’s sensibilities, like an individuals memory of physical pain fades/changes with time. Not saying either is right only that it changes.
At this time (IMHO), building a Mosque anywhere near “Ground Zero” would be akin to the US buying land in Nagasaki or Hiroshima, Japan with the intent to build a nuclear testing facility. I think a few Japanese citizens just might have a problem with that no matter what the U.S. might say the intent was. I'm not saying the two events are equivalent only that the emotions engendered would be much the same.
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slb
August 16, 2010 8:12 PM in reply to Thinking-Independent
But there are two mosques in the neighborhood that have been there for decades. And at this point, they are both overcrowded. What is wrong with expanding their quarters? What else are the Muslim residents of the area supposed to do, pull up stakes and move somewhere else? Or find jobs in some other part of the city?
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Thinking-Independent
August 17, 2010 10:46 PM in reply to slb
Sorry for the late reply.
No I don't want them to feel they need to move. I just ask Muslims in general to honestly ask them selves if this is the best place or time to build. I know there are many who would say no. I do not believe even a sizable percentage of Muslims agree with the actions of the 9/11 hijackers. I would not be real surprised if that number is a fraction of 1%. But no one can argue that their actions were done in the name of Islam. Building near (I would say 10 blocks personally) this location is just too much like a slap in the face to many who live in New York and indeed to many Americans throughout the country.
Personally I fear more the kooks this might attract that would try to do damage to the mosque and possibly harm someone intentionally or not.
That would just be a tragedy that could be easily avoided by a small location change. I will say right now that I will denounce anyone who even contemplates an action of that nature. An action of that type may even be worse IMHO.
These are just my opinions and I hold no allusion that my opinions are better than any other person's opinion.
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martis
August 16, 2010 4:41 PM in reply to Thinking-Independent
i would venture that you need some writin' lessons.
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Thinking-Independent
August 16, 2010 5:02 PM in reply to martis
Perhaps u simply need read'n lessins. :)
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castanea
August 16, 2010 4:28 PM in reply to Ortho
And if we had decent media in America, they would point out such facts, and begin to ask the rightwingers who are so vocal in their opposition to the Cordoba House if they oppose the fast food joints, gentlemen's clubs, and other such establishments that are in proximity to the Hallowed Ground (TM).
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Got Kids
August 16, 2010 4:38 PM in reply to Ortho
Equidistant from Ground Zero is the "Museum of Jewish Heritage: a Living Memorial to the Holocaust" which WAS built and designed for FREE to the occupants as part of the Battery Park City Authority redevelopment. NO HYPOCRISY HERE!
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August 16, 2010 4:45 PM in reply to Got Kids
Got:
You know where I stand, but to play the devil's advocate, Jews didn't fly airplanes into the towers. That argument might not stand up too well.
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Got Kids
August 16, 2010 4:57 PM in reply to Ortho
Muslims did not fly planes into the WTC, terrorists did. And if we here in these United States can not at least set an example to the world of what IS possible then I am afraid it really is game over for US.
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August 16, 2010 5:08 PM in reply to Got Kids
Couldn't agree more—just playing the devil's advocate.
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Richard L. Adlof
August 16, 2010 4:11 PM
At least, Senator Reid is totally consistent . . . He never misses the opportunity to fold before any potential fight, even when he is on the side of the angels . . .
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August 16, 2010 4:17 PM in reply to Richard L. Adlof
Richard, I agree totally, but he is OUR spineless coward. To understand this statement you must look at all the angles—pun intended.
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go2goal
August 16, 2010 4:13 PM
Harry Reid should read the book "Zeitoun".....pronounced Zay-toon. Then he might realize we need leadership in this country to get the masses to overcome our biogtry, racism, religious persecution, and basically get back to truly defending the constitution.
I now wonder if Harry would defend the WW II internment camps of our Japanese US citizens? When will we as people learn from our mistakes in history....and stop electing bigots like the Republicans and now Harry Reid.
The American people are better than this....Muslims and US citizens didn't bomb the world trade center...Islamic extremists from Saudi Arabia (mainly) bombed NY.
The NYC City Council and Mayor have made the right decision for their city.....Harry Reid and his newly found close political ally Sarah Palin and Barbara Bachman should stay out of it.
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An Outhouse
August 16, 2010 4:15 PM
Dear Harry,
Manhattan is not in Nevada. Its a local zoning issue. Mind your own business. That goes for the rest of you.
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Thinking-Independent
August 16, 2010 4:16 PM
Legalities aside, does anyone think this was the best decision on where to build?
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windowpane
August 16, 2010 4:20 PM in reply to Thinking-Independent
Probably not, but Reagan probably shouldn't have laid a wreath at the graves of Nazi SS officers in Bitburg, Germany when thousands of Holocaust survivors pleased with him not to do so. What was he thinking?
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Thinking-Independent
August 17, 2010 11:04 PM in reply to windowpane
I was a bit dubious about that move as well. Especially since I was Serving in the Air Force at that time. The only rational I can offer (and this holds only a little water even with me) is that there is a certain amount of honor that can be afforded to those who serve their country's military that should be separate from the actions of the country's leaders. Recent events within our own military show that not all service members even those of high rank fully believe in what they are asked to do.
Disrespecting them all would be little different then the kooks saying that anyone asking that the mosque be built else where believes that ALL Muslims are responsible for and approved of the actions of the crazy 9/11 hijackers.
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August 16, 2010 4:26 PM in reply to Thinking-Independent
Thinking:
I would be inclined to say no if there were not already a virtually identical center two miles away at Allen and Houston. Two blocks, two miles...what is the big deal as long as it is not on the site itself?
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slb
August 16, 2010 8:16 PM in reply to Thinking-Independent
The group that is organizing this community center has had a mosque in the area for decades. But they are in dire need of more space.
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Thinking-Independent
August 17, 2010 10:54 PM in reply to slb
I would refer to my above reply to your other post.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/reid-forget-ground-zero-the-mosque-should-be-built-some-place-else.php#comment-4065261
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windowpane
August 16, 2010 4:16 PM
Perhaps there is a double standard when it comes to controversial Mormon temples.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/14/AR2007121401846.html
Maybe that's why the Mittster has been so quiet.
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/10/romney_ground_zero_mosque
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awh25
August 16, 2010 4:20 PM
Here's the email I just sent to Harry Reid (FWIW):
Dear Mr. Reid,
I am a life-long Democrat and will continue to be for as long as the only other option is a party full of lunatics. However, I am hopeful that some day there will be as much of an insurgency on the left as the Tea Party has had on the right.
Your actions and statements today regarding the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque" are the most cowardly I have ever seen...and that is saying a lot considering how many times you and the other Democrats in Congress have gone running from true progressive and Democratic ideas because Rush Limbaugh (or any other blowhard) says you're weak on defense or crime or some other idiocy.
Not only does your belief that Muslims should go worship "some place else" betray the very essence of what the United States is supposed to stand for (you know, freedom of religion and all that stuff in the Constitution), it is also completely ridiculous and arbitrary. Where should they go? At least as far as the next closest mosque to the WTC site? Unfortunately, that would mean moving closer to WTC. Or maybe you agree more with Bryan Fischer and no more mosques should be built in the US because someone nearby may feel some left over pain and bigotry against all Muslims because of 9/11? Ironically, the people closest to the WTC site and most directly affected by 9/11 (i.e. Manhattanites, myself included) are strongly in favor of allowing the mosque where it is proposed (see http://tinyurl.com/mosquepoll).
It should be no surprise to you that you are running neck-and-neck with a deranged opponent in your re-election bid. It isn't because more people agree with Ms. Angle than agree with you or Democratic positions, as poll after poll has shown when asking people about specific issues (as opposed to "which party do you like more"). It is because when push comes to shove, you and many others in the Democratic caucus fail to fight for what is truly right, and this is just the latest and most egregious example of that pattern. I do hope you are able to win your re-election, but I also hope you are able to show real leadership in the future. Good luck.
awh25
New York, NY
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howie911
August 16, 2010 4:57 PM in reply to awh25
Bravo, well done!
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gharlane
August 17, 2010 3:34 AM in reply to awh25
I am a life-long Democrat and will continue to be for as long as the only other option is a party full of lunatics.
And that, in a nutshell, is why it serves the interests of the dominant, corporate wing of the Democratic Party to have the other option be a party full of lunatics.
No aspersions intended on you at all, awh. Your position, unfortunately, makes a good deal of sense. It's just a stark reminder of the structural problems we face.
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oleeb
August 16, 2010 4:28 PM
Harry Reid, like most other Democrats in Washington, DC is a sniveling, craven, coward who will do or say anything to stay in office no matter how humiliating, no matter how badly he has to debase himself. Being a Mormon one would think he'd have more balls than that considering it is this very intolerance that drove the Mormons out of Missouri and on to Utah. Pathetic.
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Viva!America!
August 16, 2010 4:42 PM in reply to oleeb
This would be a good time for all those pure and moral third parties to come out and denounce both parties all over the media and fight for religious freedom.
So far? *crickets*
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Got Kids
August 16, 2010 4:55 PM in reply to oleeb
Senator Menendez has taken the complete opposite position of Harry Reid. Maybe he should be the next Senate Majority Leader.
http://www.northjersey.com/news/national/081610_US_Sen_Menendez_Republicans_playing_politics_over_Ground_Zero_mosque_issue.html
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davewtf
August 16, 2010 4:39 PM
Economy sucks? Environment going to crap?
No worries, let's just distract them with more and more unimportant BS, like actively opposing gay marriage and the "ground-zero-mosque"!
We Americans seem to be such morons with this BS while rome burns.
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martis
August 16, 2010 4:49 PM in reply to davewtf
Spot on. The Repubs are likely to sweep back into power by running on hatin gay marriage & hatin muslims & hatin deficits (and also cuttin taxes on the rich and getting rid of social security ... but don't say that too loudly). We Americans can only blame ourselves for the sewer we heading down.
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jim
August 16, 2010 4:46 PM
Fear is a most powerful motivator of humans and the conservative/republican/tea party brand(s) have harnessed it quite effectively over the years to achieve wealth and political power. Thinking about fear, being fearful and using fear would come naturally to most conservatives. They are mostly ‘God fearing Christians’. People who fear something that none has ever seen, heard or felt except in a dream, delusion or their imagination provide a solid base of support for the fear mongers. They are easily convinced to fear other things that they cannot see, hear or feel such as ‘death panels’, socialism, fascism, the horror of a ‘ground zero mosque’, a ‘Kenyan’ president and evolutionary theory to name but a few.
These fearful people are quick to arm themselves and encourage like minded people to be armed profiting their weapons manufacturing and retail companies. They are quick to send others to fight wars (crusades?) that profit their companies and bolster their false image of being ‘strong’ on national security. They push the idea that somehow their ‘God’ approves of their wars and will help them prevail. (As an aside, it seems if a ‘God’ were on anyone’s side he/she would use the fabled ‘smiting’, plague infliction or simple pyrotechnics, depending on his/her mood, to resolve the issue. But perhaps I expect too much out of an omnipotent entity.) They have tremendous fear that they will lose what they have so construct dialogues that convince many that the very wealthy deserve to keep all that they have taken and actually get people who will never have to worry about estate taxes (death tax) to fear those taxes.
Roughly 3000 Americans have been killed by terrorists since 2001. Over 4000 Americans have been killed in Iraq, supposedly protecting us from another attack. 30,000 die in car accidents, 30,000 die in gun related incidents and over 500,000 die from cancer… EVERY YEAR. The conservatives are worried about a mosque 2 blocks from the World Trade Center. How about getting the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan; improving our highways; establishing reasonable gun controls or spending the $10 billion or so that Paul Bremer and the CPA ‘lost’ in Iraq, on a cure for cancer!
The democrats/liberals/progressives are always caught flat footed by the fear strategy and generally lose the emotional battle because they are not prepared. These battles are always fought on an emotional level, because exposed to the light of intellect and reason, most ‘fears’ evaporate as quickly as Sarah Palin’s credibility did during the Katy Couric interview. We need to start being honest and exposing how crazy most of these fears are rather than pandering to the fearful with half hearted attempts to show support for the Second Amendment , calls for immigration reform or attempts to explain why we are not socialists or fascists anymore than the conservatives are.
FDR in his 1st Inaugural address in 1933 said “…the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.” That sentiment may be more true today. Going into this critical election cycle, we need to grow a spine and not ‘fear’ our own principles!
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Ironcomments
August 16, 2010 5:02 PM in reply to jim
“No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.” Edmund Burke.
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August 16, 2010 5:52 PM in reply to jim
The only thing to fear is fear its...brown people! Oh no!!!
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davewtf
August 16, 2010 6:31 PM in reply to jim
Yup, I've actually said the same thing many a time. Fear is the most powerful emotion, and these republicans/conservatives are so good at not only creating it, but spreading it as well.
Meanwhile, us idiot democrats/independents/liberals try to calm the crowd down. Much easier to stir up the fear than to calm the fear down.
Sh_t...
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stillidealistic
August 16, 2010 4:54 PM
This is a local issue. For crying out loud, everyone on the planet has spoken up about this. Why can't everyone just back off now, and let New Yorkers decide what is best for them? Enough already! If Harry can't find anything more important to worry, about, have him call me. I've got a few (hundred) suggestions!
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August 16, 2010 4:56 PM
I will preface this comment by saying that I am not an atheist.
Okay, that said, as I read news articles day after day (I am a news junkie), it occurs to me that at least 70% of the hot button issues that divide this country and which keep the world in a constant state of tension emanate from religion.
If there is a God—and I believe there is—one wonders how he/she/it feels about so much anger, hatred, and bloodshed is perpetrated in any of his/her/its many names.
Obviously, I'm no Voltaire and this comment is no revelation, but I would love to live in a world in which human beings make decisions based on rational, empirical arguments rather than allegorical myths written millennia ago.
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Thinking-Independent
August 16, 2010 6:42 PM in reply to Ortho
I would settle for a world where people practice that which most advocate; ‘tolerance of other faiths’ including those who hold to the “Faith” that there is no God in general being respectful of those who believe in a different philosophy.
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castanea
August 16, 2010 7:39 PM in reply to Thinking-Independent
I would settle for the beauty and harmony of the Navajo way, myself.
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condew
August 16, 2010 4:57 PM
Just when Harry Reid found his spine, he lost his prinicpals.
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FreeRider
August 16, 2010 5:03 PM in reply to condew
He lost his principals? Elementary, middle school, junior high or high school? LMAO!
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SkepticalCidada
August 16, 2010 5:13 PM in reply to FreeRider
Fuck you, bigot.
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susanthe
August 16, 2010 4:58 PM
In other words, Harry - the terrorists have won.
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SkippyFlipjack
August 16, 2010 5:05 PM
I'd love to print out Obama's speech the other night and make Harry actually read it. Then I'd roll it up and hit him upside the head with it. What an embarrassing, anti-American stance.
But maybe the Republicans will play nice with him now! :/
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bidalah
August 16, 2010 5:08 PM
I'm disappointed too, but it makes sense. Both Harry and Sharon are around 42% in the polls and are chasing after another 3-5%. That is why Angle is moderating here message just a tiny bit. Now Harry has found an issue where he can swing conservative just a little bit. Probably not many Muslims in Nevada and lots of Conservative Democrats.
I think the only political risk for Reid here is that his move might come off as so obviously calculated that it will feed his reputation as a vote whore.
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aacme
August 16, 2010 9:11 PM in reply to bidalah
Of course it would never occur to him that a small show of Leadership might make that difference. Democrat philosophy: when in doubt, cave.
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Overreach THIS!
August 16, 2010 9:44 PM in reply to aacme
In fucking Nevada?
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hoppycalif2
August 16, 2010 5:09 PM
I'm waiting to see the design for the minarets, and for the ads for the muezzins who will do the calls to prayer from them. I just hope the don't discriminate against good Christians, Jews, Buddhists, and, of course Atheists. And, I think New Yorkers should insist that some good rock music be incorporated into those calls. Maybe to make this a real multiple use facility on Sundays a different denomination's preacher should be allowed to give their sermon from each of the minarets.
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jim
August 16, 2010 6:06 PM in reply to hoppycalif2
How about inviting rabbis and mullahs to christian services to preach from the pulpit while you are at it. We perpetuate an us vs. them environment through these sophomoric constructs.
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hoppycalif2
August 16, 2010 7:24 PM in reply to jim
Great idea! I support that 100% any day.
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SleepinJeezus
August 16, 2010 5:14 PM
DLC Democrats: "We stand for reelection - and for damned little else!"
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Got Kids
August 16, 2010 5:30 PM in reply to SleepinJeezus
Roger that!
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AdAbsurdum
August 16, 2010 5:34 PM in reply to SleepinJeezus
I'm waiting for Grayson's courageous statement.
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August 16, 2010 5:20 PM
what an a-hole.....reid is just looking for some votes of muslim haters.....he is in a wacko religion himself, u think he would have a little empathy.
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ejg3
August 16, 2010 5:33 PM
How about in Salt Lake City across from the LDS Temple.
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August 16, 2010 5:40 PM
"The First Amendment protects freedom of religion. Senator Reid respects that..."
Stop right there!
"... but thinks that the mosque should be built some place else"
Apparently not. If Harry Reid really respected the First Amendment, he wouldn't go around telling religious minorities where they "should" build their houses of worship.
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BillSoo
August 16, 2010 5:57 PM
Keep in mind that this is NOT a binary issue. It is trinary at least....
This was explored a bit in FiveThirtyEight.
Basically, you have those who
a) Think the mosque CAN legally be built and SHOULD be built to show that the US does not discriminate against Muslims.
b) Think the mosque CAN legally be build but should NOT be built so as to spare the sensitivities of the 911 families
c) Think the mosque CANNOT be built or should be made illegal if it is already legal, because mosques are bad no matter where they are.
Harry is in group B, which leads to those in A criticizing him for being too much like C and C criticizing him for being too much like A.
I think Obama is also in B but at least he had the good sense to say that whether or not he thinks the Mosque *should* be built has no bearing on the constitutional issue. That at least spares him (most of) the wrath of A.
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SleepinJeezus
August 16, 2010 6:13 PM in reply to BillSoo
Typical triangulation, that shows (from past DLC-type failures) that it's sometimes better to actually STAND UP AND FIGHT for something other than your perceived best route to the next election. If you can't stand for the First Amendment Rights as a Mormon in Mormon country, then, what? What might actually stir you to LEAD??
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castanea
August 16, 2010 7:35 PM in reply to SleepinJeezus
What amazes me about prima donna progs is that they comprise maybe 10 percent of any given Democratic politician's voters, yet if that politician doesn't support their views 100 percent of the time, they threaten to withdraw said support entirely.
They do little more than argue for their own irrelevance, then wonder why no one seems to listen to them. Politicians are driven by their own self-interests. Prima donna progs apparently think that all politicians should be willing to go down to defeat in defense of the issues that the prima donnas value.
Of course, were that to happen and we got a huge Republican majority in Congress, the prima donna progs would be the first to blame the Democrats for acting too late! Or too soon! Or not enough! Or too much!
Honestly, you guys are like petulant teenagers. Grow up.
Look, Reid is entitled to his own opinion on the matter, and that is really what this is, despite TPM's huge, traffic-driving headline for the story. He is not engaged in any wistful chattering about how this is Hallowed Ground (TM) and must be kept sacred forever, and what he says will not influence any vote in the Senate regarding the Cordoba House because there are no such votes scheduled, nor will there be.
However, what you prima donnas have for the most part neglected to recognize is that Reid also took a slap at Republicans for holding up the first-responder bill, which actually IS something over which the Senate can/should vote.
So nice job yet again, prima donnas, of entirely missing the boat. You have managed to echo the rightwing's misdirected outrage and completely missed the chance to do something useful--in this case, renew your support for the first-responder bill.
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mmanion
August 16, 2010 6:01 PM
So the Senate Majority Leader is publicly advocating violating the first amendment and supporting breaking any number of state and federal laws. We are clearly not a nation of laws, any more. This is one of the most shameful displays of cowardice I've seen in a long time--and given modern politics, that is saying a lot.
I wonder what makes religious zealots and their apologists think they won't be subjected to this same treatment? Sure, they have common cause right now, but the Sarah Palin's of this world don't want 'One Nation Under God,' they want 'One Nation Under the Assemblies of God.' Reid, et al are dreaming if they think this sort of bigotry won't be extended to other religions if these people get into power. If they manage to make this a 'Christian' nation, just watch the internecine fireworks when it comes time to decide what constitutes Christian. Karma's a b**ch, dude and you just invited a whole lot of it to come your way.
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castanea
August 16, 2010 6:23 PM in reply to mmanion
Oh, please. Stop.
"Publicly advocating violating the first amendment and supporting breaking any number of state and federal laws"? You get that interpretation from the quote provided above, which is: "The First Amendment protects freedom of religion. Senator Reid respects that but thinks that the mosque should be built some place else"?
The manufactured outrage is tiresome. Really, really tiresome. Reid saying that he thinks the mosque should be built someplace else equates to us no longer being a nation of laws?
As I mentioned above, Reid is playing to the electorate in Nevada because this is an election year for him. You and other complainers can either move there and provide him with the necessary electoral support to be 100 percent progressive, 100 percent of the time, or you can stop with the hyperbole.
We need smarter voters, and that includes people on the left realizing that politicians often have to play to the preferences of a majority of their voters.
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mmanion
August 18, 2010 3:58 PM in reply to castanea
Interesting POV. You apparently think it is okay for elected officials who have taken an oath to defend the Constitution to disregard it during an especially tough election year? How patriotic.
We don't have a first amendment to protect the rights of those the majority agrees with. It was put in place exactly for situations like this--to protect the rights of an unpopular minority against mob mentality. You are suggesting that Constitutional protections are relative and that is is okay for the people who have sworn to uphold them to vacillate on their support if there are exigent circumstances. If the majority is able to make an exception to the rights enumerated in the Constitution every time they are uncomfortable and about something and no one in a leadership position defends the principles clearly laid out in it, than what good is the document? This is what 'shredding' and 'walking all over' the Constitution actually means. I don't doubt Reid is playing politics. You suggest this is a legitimate excuse for ignoring 200+ years of precedent. I disagree and find it shameful.
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castanea
August 18, 2010 9:18 PM in reply to mmanion
Explain how Reid voicing an opinion regarding the location of the Cordoba House violates the Constitution.
Did he personally forbid putting the house at its proposed location? No, and as a US Senator from Nevada, it would not be within his power to do so.
Did he offer to introduce legislation into the Senate that would have forced the house to be located elsewhere, or that would have prevented locating the house anywhere? No.
All he did was provide his opinion.
We get that you don't like his opinion, but you present not one shred of evidence that he is "walking all over" or "shredding" the Constitution, or that any concrete plans to do so exist.
Prima donna progressives make life difficult for the rest of us who want to see the country move to the left, slowly perhaps, but consistently. The prima donnas enjoy withdrawing support for Democratic politicians because they don't vote the way they want them to vote 100 percent of the time, and then complain when the politicians begin courting more reliable support toward the center.
A politician's job is to get elected, and then re-elected--that's the first lesson you learn in Politics 101. Anyone who makes that election/re-election more difficult rightfully will be ignored.
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jdb316
August 16, 2010 6:10 PM
Just when I was beginning to think Harry Reid had a pair.....
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chard
August 16, 2010 6:11 PM
Let's be positive about this.
If the First Ammendment can be abrogated, so can the Second Ammendment.
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a4638809
August 16, 2010 6:25 PM in reply to chard
Sacrilege!!!
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labman57
August 16, 2010 6:25 PM
Obama is concerned with adhering to the U.S. Constitution, whereas Reid is primarily worried about getting reelected.
Sometimes the popular choice is not the correct choice.
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mc mark
August 16, 2010 6:29 PM
NOT HELPING HARRY!!!
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just john
August 16, 2010 6:33 PM
So, if the Dems continue to hold the Senate this election, who else is in the running for Majority Leader?
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ejg3
August 16, 2010 6:37 PM
It looks like Reid just traded his principles for what comes out of the rear end of one of Sue Lowden's chickens. I'm wondering if the phrase none of the above (or none of these) is more suited for how to vote in Nevada or for keeping religion out of politics. For historical or hysterical reference we might want to turn to the American Party (the formal name of the Know Nothing Party) stealing and destroying the stone donated by the Vatican for the Washington Monument out of fear of the Pope and Catholic Immigrants ( with echoes coming in the elections of 1928 by the KKK and in 1960 by fundamentalist Protestants). It seems that there's a strong case than in religious America that the God of Feat triumphs Fear of the Lord or as said by Barry McGuire in Eve of Destruction, there are people who hate their neighbor but don't forget to same grace. There were a number of Muslims killed in the 911 Tragedy on the ground and many of the almost 3000 who died there were foreign nationals.
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xargaw
August 16, 2010 6:44 PM
Harry Reid and Leader in the same sentence is an oxymoron. He never met any issue that he will immediately cave on. What a pathetic excuse for an elected official.
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marionetta
August 16, 2010 6:49 PM
Harry needs to go visit Thunder Lingerie: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/16/2010-08-16_a_sea_of_filth_near_ground_zer0_mosque_gets_all_the_press_but_porns_around_corne.html
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psyclone
August 16, 2010 6:52 PM
...and this is precisely why I don't care who wins this Senate race in Nevada. Whoever comes out on top, we all lose.
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mixelpixx
August 16, 2010 7:01 PM
Harry Reid. What a twat. Are there but maybe 2-3 Dems in the senate and congress that still have any balls? I might have had high hopes for the admin, but I think what is killing the most was that I had decided that a GIVEN would be that Repubs would at least have to STFU for 4yrs and I could hear myself think again. No such luck.
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jeffgee
August 16, 2010 7:10 PM
Way to show unity with the Prez. Is he THAT afraid of Sharron Angle?
The Fox goons'll have fun with this chew toy.
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yzfool
August 16, 2010 7:13 PM
This is why I firmly hold that you should only support politicians to the extent that they support you and no further.
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MKC
August 16, 2010 7:49 PM
What an absolute shit! I'd been hoping he'd lose so that we can get Dick Durbin as maj leader.
We should inundate the switchboard at every one of this chickenshit's offices:
DC: 202-224-3542
Reno: 775-686-5750
Carson City: 775-882-REID (7343)
Las Vegas: 702-388-5020
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JimmyBobby
August 16, 2010 8:04 PM in reply to MKC
The good senator's voicemail boxes seem to all be full. Hope there's a burning bag of shit in at least one of 'em.
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housewife
August 16, 2010 7:56 PM
Seems that Nevada will be choosing between the lesser of two evils.
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Sun Tzu
August 16, 2010 7:58 PM
I agree with Joan Walsh, who said today on 'Hardball, that on this issue "Harry Reid is a tower of jello".
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JimmyBobby
August 16, 2010 8:02 PM
Jeebus, don't people like Reid have other people around them they can turn to and ask, "Ya think I oughta say this?" before they open their mouths?
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JimmyBobby
August 16, 2010 8:03 PM
Jeebus, don't people like Reid have other people around them they can turn to and ask, "Ya think I oughta say this?" before they open their mouths?
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JimmyBobby
August 16, 2010 8:04 PM
I didn't double post that! Blame the machine!
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dougom
August 16, 2010 8:06 PM
Should the Democrats retain control of the Senate, can we please get someone who actually has some cajones in the leadership position? Good lord, is this man pathetic.
I may be appalled by Chuck Schumer's consistent defense of Wall Street, and his pretty consistent full-throated support for some of Israel's dumbest policies, but at least I've never doubted that he had some 'nads, for heaven's sake.
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Ugg the Repug
August 16, 2010 8:16 PM
Can Ugg use Constitution to start fire? You not using anymore.
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martingauthier
August 16, 2010 8:29 PM
Fine Harry. But that means us New Yorkers get to send the nuclear waste from Indian Point to Yucca Mountain.
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aacme
August 16, 2010 8:56 PM
I could have sworn Reid took an oath to uphold the Constitution. That includes the 1st Amendment, which says this issue is between the developers of the Community Center, be they Muslim, Hindu or Bible-Thumping Baptist, and the Zoning Commission. This entire question is nobody else's business, except for that part about upholding the Constitution. If Reid doesn't want to do that, maybe he shouldn't be in Congress.
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aacme
August 16, 2010 9:04 PM
The problem with Democrats is they think they should listen to Republicans rather than their own base, thinking that base has no one else to vote for, and this way everyone will vote for them! That it hasn't ever worked doesn't seem to make them rethink it. So here goes:
Reid, you dumb shit. The Republicans will vote for the Real Republicans. The Democrats and Independents Will play golf that day. Nobody is going to vote for a mealy mouthed shit who won't take a stand to defend the Constitution.
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