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The Dems Who Have Spoken For Cordoba House


Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL)

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With all the attention we've given to politicians who have attacked the Muslim community center set to be built near Ground Zero in New York, let's take a different look at the story: A list of the Democratic politicians who have stood up in support of it.

Opposition to the project has been brewing for weeks, and the issue came to a head a week and a half ago, when President Obama voiced his support for the right of organizers to build it.

[TPM SLIDESHOW: Hundreds Protest Islamic Center In Downtown Manhattan]

Since, some Dems have come out and said that the project should be moved -- most notably Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV), who nevertheless affirmed the right of Muslims to build it. So let's look at the other side of the equation: Dems who have spoken out on the project's behalf, both before and after Obama's remarks.

This isn't a totally complete list, and for our purposes, we are counting both solid affirmations of the project itself, plus those politicians who have attacked the project's opponents in the name of upholding the constitutional right to free exercise of religion.

After Obama's Statement

Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-IL) has come out in support of the center -- after Majority Leader Reid stated last week that it should be built somewhere else. "The mayor of New York City, Michael Bloomberg, has given his assent to this center and I support his decision," Durbin said Sunday. "The politicians like Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin who try to divide America with fear and hate over this issue betray the diversity which makes our nation great and the Constitution which they profess to honor."



Rep. Joe Sestak (D-PA), the Democratic nominee for Senate and a retired Navy Vice Admiral, stated his support last week. "As you know, I haven't taken very good direction yet from party leadership," Sestak said. "All that said, I strongly believe in the Constitutional right of religious freedom and in the separation of church and state applied equally to everyone. Those are rights that I defended for 31 years in that fine U.S. Navy. This is an issue for New York to resolve as long as it respects those constitutional rights. Let's also step back and say, let's stop paying politics."

Alexi Giannoulias, the Democratic nominee for President Obama's former Senate seat in Illinois, has also come out in support: "Are we going to talk about tolerance, talk about freedom of religion or are we actually going to practice it?"







Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) called the attacks against the center "one of the most disgraceful things that I've heard." As a former New York City resident, Franken explained to an Illinois crowd (and any opponents out there) just what the reality of this center would be: "I don't know how many of you have been to New York, but if a building is two blocks away from anything, you can't see it." Franken got in a joke, as well: "It's a community center. They're going to have a gym. They're going to have point guards. Muslim point guards."

Franken also told his audience: "I lost a friend in 9-11 and I understand the feelings of the families."

Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI), who is in the middle of a tough re-election fight, proclaimed that the center's opponents are guilty of "gutter politics," and that the opposition to it is "one of the worst things I've ever seen done in politics."

"In the end I believe in freedom of religion," said Feingold. "If somebody owns property and it's within the zoning rules, if they want to build a house of worship that is a fundamental right. And I would make the point I am for freedom on this point, and freedom of religion is fundamental."


Rep. Charlie Rangel (D-NY) has offered his support, saying that he's "kind of proud that they're sticking to their guns and saying this is where they would want to worship." Hmm, maybe "sticking to their guns" wasn't the right word choice -- but it's the thought that counts, right?





Rep. Shelly Berkley (D-NV) has come out strongly against the center's opponents. "Given the fact that my family and people in my religion have suffered so much from religious persecution, I cannot see how I can speak out against other minority religions in this country and their free exercise of their own religion," said Berkley, who is Jewish.

"Do I feel sensitivity for those families that suffered horrible losses and unspeakable crimes (in the Sept. 11 attack)? Of course," Berkley added. "Is this the best location on the planet for this mosque? Probably not. But doesn't the Constitution permit the free exercise of religious beliefs? How many synagogues have been burned to the ground with Jews in them because of religious intolerance?" (Thanks to TPM reader LE.)

Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-OR) wrote a guest column for The Oregonian, stating his support.

"I appreciate the depth of emotions at play, but respectfully suggest that the presence of a mosque is only inappropriate near ground zero if we unfairly associate Muslim Americans with the atrocities of the foreign al-Qaida terrorists who attacked our nation," wrote Merkley. "Such an association is a profound error. Muslim Americans are our fellow citizens, not our enemies. Muslim Americans were among the victims who died at the World Trade Center in the 9/11 attacks. Muslim American first responders risked their lives to save their fellow citizens that day. Many of our Muslim neighbors, including thousands of Oregon citizens, serve our country in war zones abroad and our communities at home with dedication and distinction." (Thanks to TPM reader DP.)

Rep. Andre Carson (D-IN), who is Muslim, has voiced his support: "Are we a country of laws and principles? Or are we a country who will be moved by the winds of emotion each and every time there are issues that come up to divert us from the true meaning and intent of the founding fathers?" (Thanks to TPM reader LM.)



Rep. Kathy Dahlkemper (D-PA) has also strongly stated her support for the right to build it.

"While I understand that emotions are running strong in regard to the Muslim community center in New York City, it's neither the government's nor an elected official's place to tell any religious group where they can or cannot practice their faith," Dahlkemper said. "Our Founding Fathers came to America to escape religious persecution.

"I believe very strongly in the First Amendment's guarantee of religious freedom, and I will not throw our Constitution or core values aside simply because it is an election year."

Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT) has chimed in: "It may be popular to jump on this, but it should never be popular to have our First Amendment freedom of religion apply to some religions and not others. That's not the American way."






Before Obama's Statement
Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN), the first Muslim elected to Congress, stated strongly that the Democratic Party should stand for freedom of religion.

"There's also a more important principle at work here: And that is that the transnational terrorists who committed this outrageous act on 9/11, they are arguing that America is at war with Islam," said Ellison. "The way to undermine and counteract that false narrative is to stand on our sacredly held beliefs of religious liberty. That's how we demonstrate that, no, America is a country...for everyone where people worship as they see fit. The problem with stopping this Islamic center is that it implies that the Muslim world is responsible for it, when it was al Qaeda that was responsible."

The office of Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) came out with a statement three weeks ago: "The community board, which includes many people who lived through the 9/11 attacks, overwhelmingly voted to approve this proposal and Senator Gillibrand supports the board's decision."





Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) also said: "While I understand some of the strong emotions this proposal has created, I believe that preventing the project from being built would run counter to our proud constitutional rights of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom to assemble. I stand with many in our community, including Mayor Bloomberg and the local community board, in supporting the rights of the project's planners to build in lower Manhattan, which I believe will signal to the world that the terrorists will never be able to destroy the American traditions of openness and tolerance."

Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), whose district includes Ground Zero, also said three weeks ago: "As an elected official who believes strongly in the separation of church and state, I contend that the government has no business deciding whether there should or should not be a Muslim house of worship near Ground Zero. And, as a representative of New Yorkers of all faiths and cultures, I find the singling out of Muslim-Americans -- because of their faith -- for animus and hate to be shameful and divisive. We should instead work toward building tolerance and understanding."

Special Bonus

Gov. Charlie Crist (I-FL), the ex-Republican who is widely believed to be a potential vote for Democrats if he wins his Senate race, voiced his support the day after Obama's remarks. "We are a country in my view that stands for freedom of religion. You know, respect for others," Crist told CNN. "I know there are sensitivities and I understand that, but I think Mayor Bloomberg is right and I think the President is right."

(This post has been added to since its original publication.)

Comments (78) | Join the Conversation!

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August 24, 2010 8:56 AM   

Imam Rauf’s image may be moderate enough to satisfied a few, but when he called Iran's last election "legitimate and fair", I have to wonder about his preception of things.

ex animo
davidfarrar

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August 24, 2010 12:37 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

If you are going to claim that someone in the news made a statement, can you link to their statement so we can read it in *context*? If not, then your postings aren't worth the bits that represent them on the server.

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August 24, 2010 1:29 PM    in reply to ladyfractal

Good point. This statement was taken from a radio show that was in the process of playing some of the newly found audio tapes late last night. They payed the tape and I heard him say that the Iranian election results were correct and the election was fair.

But as of today, I haven't actually been able to find the precise quote. I did, however, find a website where some of his tapes are produced and provide some eye-opening statements in and of themselves.

Click here.

Thank you.

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August 24, 2010 2:26 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

Um, so what?

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slb

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August 24, 2010 5:06 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

Forgive me if I am leery of statements excerpted from audio or video tape of uncertain provenance. There have been too many instances of dishonest editing.

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August 24, 2010 6:56 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

A couple of things, sir. While I'm not impeaching your source I have to say that I would feel better about it if the link were to Mr. Rauf's web site. I say this because, if one were to believe the American media, Jeremiah Wright spent the best part of four decades preaching one sermon, the entire text of which comes down to "God damn America" and "chickens coming home to roost". If one were to believe the media, Shirley Sherrod gloated over the opportunity to ruin some farmer's life. If one were to believe the American media, ACORN was home to the most brilliant and perspicacious criminal minds of the last 50 years.

As it turns out, Jeremiah Wright didn't spend the last 40 years preaching "God damn America", Shirley Sherrod was telling a story about being a better person than she might otherwise have been and ACORN wasn't trying to help a pimp smuggle in underage girls from Mexico. But you would be *entirely* justified in believing otherwise, if you were of a mind to believe the American media.

As far as the quotations, are you going to tell me that you believe that the United States supporting dictators in Muslim-majority nations has had NO discernible effect and might *not* actually motivate the people in those nations to take violent actions against the US? If you believe--and again, if you listen only to the American media you're justified in thinking this--that Islam attacked the United States and that the only possible motivation was religion or if you believe that 'they hate us for our freedoms', let me suggest that you read two books by Michael Shceurer--"Through Our Enemies Eyes" and "Marching Towards Hell". You may find them enlightening.

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August 24, 2010 9:00 AM   

That's it? That's the total list? Stretched with the inclusion of Crist and some not-yet-electeds? Pathetic.

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August 24, 2010 10:19 AM    in reply to Svensker

And to think: They're still trying to figure out why there's an "intensity gap."

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August 24, 2010 11:31 AM    in reply to Svensker

Eric did say, "This isn't a totally complete list,..." There could well be more he just didn't know about.

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August 24, 2010 12:52 PM    in reply to Svensker

Giannoulias is the IL state treasurer. In IL that is an elected position. So...

...elected official.

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slb

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August 24, 2010 4:49 PM    in reply to Svensker

Actually, I would give the not-yet-electeds extra points for political courage.

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August 24, 2010 9:16 AM   

Here's another example of Imam Rauf "moderate" beliefs:

"Unlike Christians, he adds, Muslims are commanded to "shape history," and that requires merging the mosque with the state. Rauf, who opposes Muslim nations adopting Western values, rebukes Ataturk for secularizing Turkey."

ex animo
davidfarrar

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August 24, 2010 9:23 AM    in reply to davidfarrar

Got links? (Cause you aint got cred).

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August 24, 2010 9:56 AM    in reply to jollyroger

His source is the very trustworthy world net daily:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=194617

Or in other words: yeah, right...

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August 24, 2010 12:17 PM    in reply to jollyroger

Look, these people have a right to build their mosque when and where they want. I also have a right to make sure Americans, Muslim and non-Muslims alike, know who these people are and the vaules they represent. Especially when their values have been called into question.

The quote does come from wnd, but you will notice...Frenchfi doesn't question the quote itself.

You want more?

Here's a quote from: AINA

Are they true?

I don't know. The only way I have to find out is to post them and see if anyone disputs them and not simply the site itself. In the arena of the Internet, undisputed testimony may just be as close to truth as we are ever going to get.

He (Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf) also has acquired a reputation for being a master of ambiguity, someone who practices the art of "dialogue" by framing his positions in such a way that they can be understood differently by different people. He seems to make it a practice to utter opposing views in the same breath, and to state different things to different audiences. A good example of the former occurred in a 60 Minutes interview about 9/11. He stated first, "I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened," and then in the next sentence, "But United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened."

As an example of the latter, his latest book has been published under two titles. In the United States, it has the reassuring title "What's Right with Islam Is What's Right with America". The title for readers abroad, however, sends the disturbing signal that there may be a link between his missionary work (dawa) and Osama bin Laden's terrorism: A Call to Prayer from the World Trade Center Rubble: Islamic Dawa in the Heart of America Post-9/11.

As far as I can see, very few people on the left have really questioned exactly what Rauf believes in or stands for, except those who believe in his message. And once you know what Rauf believes in, Obama's seemingly two messages on the subject of the Cordoba House suddenly comes into focus.

ex animo
davidfarrar

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August 24, 2010 12:55 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

"[U]ndisputed testimony may just be as close to truth as we are ever going to get."

Stop and think about what that means. Any accusation that goes unchallenged would then be seen as probable fact! That's dangerous. You may be accused of something without even knowing about it, and it may spread. Then one day you're know as Jihadist without cause.

This is a poor way to try to fact-check something. This is closer to throwing everything against the wall and seeing what sticks.

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August 24, 2010 1:12 PM    in reply to Scheherazade

It may, indeed, be a poor way of getting to the truth, but it's the only one we have as far as the Internet goes.

I have made a quote, named my source, and, therefore, presented a prima facie case that the statement was made and that it was correctly. If you have another sourced information that disputs that quote, please do me and all of us a favor and post it so we can all move closer to the true truth.

Thank you.

ex animo
davidfarrar

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August 24, 2010 12:58 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

"As far as I can see, very few people on the left have really questioned exactly what Rauf believes in or stands for, except those who believe in his message."

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? It seems that reasoning would imply a person is innocent until rumor and hearsay suggest otherwise.

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August 24, 2010 1:06 PM    in reply to Scheherazade

Innocent until proven guilty
What are you talking about?

Precisely what Rauf quote are you suggesting he didn't make?

ex animo
davidfarrar

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August 24, 2010 1:33 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

So your intention is to discredit Islam as a religion, correct? A simple yes or no will suffice.

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August 24, 2010 1:46 PM    in reply to JeffMcM

No.

ex animo
davidfarar

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August 24, 2010 1:57 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

So when you say,

"I also have a right to make sure Americans, Muslim and non-Muslims alike, know who these people are and the vaules they represent."

Who exactly are 'these people'? Park51? Please specify. And it sounds like your aim at this point isn't to criticize the community center per se, but 'these people' at large, wherever they might be active. Is that a fair statement?

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August 24, 2010 2:10 PM    in reply to JeffMcM

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf and his more than a dozen or so, commercial and non-profit co-mingled entities, including CAIR, American Society for Muslim Advancement, Muslim Leaders of Tomorrow and the Muslim Brotherhood.

ex animo
davidfarrar

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August 24, 2010 2:42 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

And this is why we should ignore their constitutional rights? Dude, I can think of lots of reasons to abridge people's constitutional rights, but I respect our Constitution. You do not. It is that simple.

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August 24, 2010 2:48 PM    in reply to Matt in Costa Rica

No one is abridging Rauf constitutional right to build his mosque where and when he desires.

ex animio
davidfarrar

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August 24, 2010 3:20 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

Then why am I even wasting binary code on your sorry self. So, let's hear hit: You believe that the attempts by the right wing to keep him from building his community center/place of worship are unconstitutional and his actual beliefs are moot when it comes to his right to build the center. I want to hear you say that so I can move on to all the crap I have to do today.

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August 24, 2010 3:53 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

We all agree that the legal and constitutional issues are a non-factor here - they can build whatever they want whereever they want, and you can say whatever you want.

This is, however, a moral, ethical, and political issue. And I would argue that it is immoral to badger a religious minority into doing something because of the mistaken ideas of an overwhelming majority.

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August 24, 2010 2:02 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

What I'm saying is that you seem to be coming to conclusions about a man based upon hearsay. He may be everything you fear, and then again he may be nothing like that at all. I can't say I've seen him say or do anything that causes me to think he is a dangerous person.

That is what I mean by innocent until proven guilty. I don't know this man. Until I learn of something he has said or done that gives me cause for concern I will assume he is someone to be taken at face value.

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August 24, 2010 2:17 PM    in reply to Scheherazade

Please click here and listen to Rauf in his own words.

Defending wahhabism – a puritanical version of Islam that governs Saudi Arabia

Calling for the elimination of Israel by claiming a one-nation state, meaning no more Jewish State.

Defending Bin Laden’s violence

Demonstrating that there is a lot more to this man than merely a cleric.”


ex animo
davidfarrar

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August 24, 2010 2:24 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

All I heard was the intro to what sounded like Bill Bennett's radio program, and I'm sorry but there is nothing that could ever compel me to listen to that man of my own free will. I have particular issues with him.

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August 24, 2010 2:34 PM    in reply to Scheherazade

Okay, so you complained about my lack of sourcing and when I provided it to you, you didn't even have the willingness to listen to it....I say again, what's your point?

ex animo
davidfarrar

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August 24, 2010 2:43 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

When did I complain? I simply asked what the source was. I did not complain about not giving the resource. I just asked what it was.

Then the subject changed to the matter of innocent until proven guilty. My point was referencing the idea that I can't come to a conclusion based upon information I cannot corroborate.

If this is actual audio of the man saying these things then is there a clip I could play that just has that instead of Bennett's program?

Also, how was I to know that his program was what I was expecting? I was expecting to just hear the Imam speaking. If Bill Bennett is able to get those audio clips I would presume they would be available elsewhere. Is there another place it can be found?

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August 24, 2010 5:19 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

I may have missed it, but I'm not seeing where you asked me what my "point" was outside of the the "innocent until proven guilty" comment. So, aside from that I don't see where you got the impression I was trying to make one. I wasn't asking rhetorical questions. So, I'm left wondering where I was making a point. It was not my intention to mislead you. In short: I'm not trying to make any points except for those we already discussed.

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August 25, 2010 8:38 AM    in reply to davidfarrar

You provided no source. Let me repeat that: No. Source. You just provided a link to a guy on Bennett's show talking about Rauf and p r o m i s i n g some real material (13 hours!) for next week. But he says he has to go through it first... Yeah, Andrew Breitbart showed us what that ususally means.

Sorry, pal, we don't buy these unsourced or doctored lies from some right wing websites. You'll have to do better than that. Oh, wait, why don't you start with real material from Fox News, where Rauf was commentator for years. Where Beck and Hannity interviewed him and found nothing radical about him, whatsoever?

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August 24, 2010 2:33 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

So?

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August 24, 2010 1:55 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

what, you quibble over a decimal point? YOUR approved 50K is still an order of magnitude greater than our sacred dead (snort).

You want to blame Saddam. Newsflash: The children who died because we stranglled their supply of clean water and medecine are still innocent and our sanctions are the proximate cause.

If I am aiming to shoot your right wing ass and I massacre your two year old in the process, will I be heard succesfully to plead self defense because you just refused to roll over and bark for me?

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August 24, 2010 2:18 PM    in reply to jollyroger

You lost me on this one.

ex animo
davidfarrar

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August 24, 2010 2:25 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

Again, I say, so what?

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August 24, 2010 2:27 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

And, so what?

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August 24, 2010 2:32 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

So what? Since when is the Constitution of the United States of America not applied because a conservative doesn't like what it says? I think Fox News is engaged in pysops against the US, funded by extremist Saudis. However I will fight to the death their right to engage in psyops for the Saudis. Why do you conservatives like to pick and choose which group our Constitution protects? Like I said, if you don't like our constitutional protections there are lots of other countries you can choose from. I hear that Erik Prince thinks Abu Dhabi is grand.

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August 25, 2010 8:43 AM    in reply to davidfarrar

And about that Rauf quote from WND, just for the record: I do actually question it. I thought that was obvious. I, for myself, believe that "news" sites as WND or newsmax or washington times are simply lying. Making things up. Doctoring phrases. Dreaming. Or in other words: I just don't think this quote ever happened.

Clear enough?

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August 24, 2010 9:37 AM    in reply to davidfarrar

So what? Seriously, conservatives really are either stupid or utterly hypocritical. Who gives a damn what the man says now or later about Iran, the US, or anything else? This is America, bro, and if you don't like our constitutional rights take your sorry unconstitutional rear-end somewhere else.

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August 24, 2010 10:59 AM    in reply to Matt in Costa Rica

thanks for that. man, sometimes the US constitution is pearls before swine.

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August 24, 2010 2:02 PM    in reply to Matt in Costa Rica

In the newly found tapes, Steve Emmerson states: "Number 3, There is definitely fraud involved with the entities that Rauf has created over the last decades, more than a dozen or so, commercial and non-profit entities that are co-mingled, that we are now analysing in great detail. But I took it to an IRS official already and he said," You got a case." Tape starting at 4:00 approx.

Click here for my source.

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August 24, 2010 3:23 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

Blah, blah, blah. Seriously, man, who pays you to sit here and write this crap? You already have admitted that they have the right to build the center wherever they please. Why do you continue? Get a job.

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August 24, 2010 9:49 AM    in reply to davidfarrar

And this information comes from where exactly?

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August 24, 2010 12:32 PM    in reply to Scheherazade

Click here for my source. And, please, if you have a problem with the quote, and not simply the site, please give me your source.

Thank you.

ex animo
davidfarrar

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August 24, 2010 12:42 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

Why are you even going to such a site? Why would you ever assume that you could get credible information from them?

Oh, yeah, because you are a stupid liar.

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August 24, 2010 2:09 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

I am asking because the source may or may not be credible. As an example of this we could refer to the story of the "Boy who Cried Wolf." He lost credibility because of false alarms. By the same rationale I want to know the origin of the source.

It's a legitimate concern. I don't think any of us believe everything we hear, but rather than just accept or reject a claim I'd rather know where the information came from.

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August 24, 2010 11:01 AM    in reply to davidfarrar

Well, I'm glad you were so outspoken against the Imam when Bush sent him on a goodwill tour to Arab states. Oh, you weren't?

I appreciate the effort to find a more subtle way to undermine the exercise of property rights and 1st Amendment rights by the builders of Cordoba House, but it fails to address some very simple issues:

Did the Muslim faith attack us on 9/11? did the Muslim faith attack anyone, ever? Can you deny American citizens their freedom of religion rights on the basis of an act of terrorism perpetrated by people claiming to be acting on behalf of the Muslim faith?

The answer is "no" to all of them. So, don't waste your time trying to peel away support for the Imam. It's irrelevant and disingenuous. If I wanted to attack the opponents of Cordoba House on the basis of what they've said or done in the past, I could make a career out of it.

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August 24, 2010 1:00 PM    in reply to chimpale

"Well, I'm glad you were so outspoken against the Imam when Bush sent him on a goodwill tour to Arab states. Oh, you weren't?

Who knew?

But as I stated above, once you do know what Rauf stands for, Obama's seemingly two conflicting statements on the subject comes into focus...because I think he knew, and he also knew Rauf's real mission of destroying Western civilizations from within would be exposed if he insisted on building his mosque near Ground Zero.

ex animo
davidfarrar

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August 24, 2010 1:35 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

Oh, and...

So if Imam Rauf wasn't involved in this project, and never had been, you'd be perfectly fine with this community center being built, correct?

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August 24, 2010 2:06 PM    in reply to JeffMcM

Imam Rauf has a right to build his mosque where and when he wants. I also have a right to make HIS own record public.

ex animo
davidfarar

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August 24, 2010 3:28 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

I'd still be interested if you would answer the question, so I'll restate it:
Would you be fine with a mosque built in the exact same location by a different group of organizers?

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August 24, 2010 3:29 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

Thanks for that. So we have absolutely no argument. Fox News/Republican Party is wrong and Obama is right on this important constitutional issue. Move along.

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August 24, 2010 9:25 AM   

Mogan David mosquecatel for everyone!

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August 24, 2010 9:31 AM   

Glad to see Illinois Dems doing the right thing on this. Though my local paper here in Illinois titled an article about Durbin's stance as "Durbin Supports Ground Zero Mosque" only to change it later in the day to Durbin Supports NYC Mosque.

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August 24, 2010 9:43 AM    in reply to Chris

Could be worse:

"Durbin Supports 9/11 Mosque Against Wishes of Victims of Muslim Terrorism"

(No, that's not a real headline. At least, not to my knowledge...)

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August 24, 2010 11:16 AM    in reply to Chris

'not ready for prime time' Quinn choked on this one.

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August 24, 2010 9:45 AM   

Randy Parraz, primary candidate in Az., came out strongly in defense of the Community Center.

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August 24, 2010 10:07 AM   

Why is it that the Republicans were quiet when Muslims begin to worship in the Pentagon chapel near the area where American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the building? This started right after 9/11. Park 51 is just another wedge issue for conservatives and Dick Armey's Tea Party.

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Pat

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August 24, 2010 11:06 AM    in reply to BrightLightsBigCity

Did they start after 9/11? I thought that chapel had been in use by members of all faiths for many years prior to 9/11. I agree with you about Park51 being used as a wedge issue.

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August 24, 2010 2:03 PM    in reply to Pat

correction: "wedgie issue"

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August 24, 2010 2:31 PM    in reply to BrightLightsBigCity

Because there is no "chapel" in the Pentagon, merely prayer rooms.

Now here is another example of Rauf deplicity: According to the good Imam, the Cordoba Hopuse project will have a 1000 to 1200-person prayer room for Friday worship, but no mosque. However, Muhammad has said: "When it is Friday, the angels stand at every door of the mosque and record the people in order of arrival, and when the Imam sits on the pulpit for delivering the khutbah (sermon), they fold up their sheets and listen to the mention of Allah." It's pretty clear, Rauf is once again applying two different meanings to the same statement. There will be a mosque at the Cordoba House project.

ex animo
davidfarrar

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August 24, 2010 4:10 PM    in reply to davidfarrar

Now you're arguing meaningless semantics. The Pentagon Memorial Chapel is open to people of all faiths. So since it's a room in which prayers occur, it's also a 'prayer room'.

Additionally, there seems to be some confusion over what exactly a 'mosque' is. If we say that it's a room in which Muslims pray, then yes, there is a mosque at the Pentagon. Since you seem so intent on proving Imam Rauf to be a liar, I'd like to see where he said 'It's not a mosque'. I'm guessing it was a quote where he stated Cordoba House was more than a mosque, i.e. a community center with a gym and pool etc., and not purely a structure designed for exclusively religious purposes.

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August 25, 2010 11:21 AM    in reply to davidfarrar

Ok. The area in the Pentagon has been referred to as a chapel. It is also a room where prayer occurs. A church is a place of worship so any structure could be a church where worship takes place. What is the meaning of "ground zero" I would say that ground zero is the area known as the ground above or below where the explosion of initial impact occurs .... The Twin Towers. Anything outside of the building footprint (The Twin Towers) is not ground zero. Thus, the proposed structure, Project 51 is not at ground zero.
None the less, different denominations profess their faiths in the area in the pentagon that is ground zero for this purpose.

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August 24, 2010 10:10 AM   

Add Oregon's freshman senator Jeff Merkley to the list.

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August 24, 2010 10:15 AM   

None of these nattering nerds has the personal pride & power of pretty Pamela Geller, or the populist appeal of Sensational Sarah Palin.

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August 24, 2010 2:15 PM    in reply to Ahmedsaid

I take it that sailorman has reserved a pre release copy of the girl-on-girl video of his heroines...(be still my heart).

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August 24, 2010 10:29 AM   

Michael Bloomberg--currently a Republican but occassionally a Democrat--was the real hero on this. His speech was stirring and unequivocal and the only thing that has given me a glimmer of hope about this depressing spectacle. And yes, it's particularly depressing how weak and cowardly, yet again, many of our elected Democrats have been on this issue.

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August 24, 2010 11:00 AM    in reply to boo_lala

actually, bloomberg left the GOP years ago, he was a democrat before that. now he's neither.

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LJG

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August 24, 2010 10:59 AM   

There is nothing radical about Rauf saying Iran's last election was legitimate and fair. I was disappointed with results, but Ahmadinejad was ahead in all the polls before the election and also in polls after the election. Also, Rauf is not a radical for opposing Muslim nations adopting Western values. They have a perfect right to do that. If we had recognized that right years ago, there would have been no 9/11.

I also find it strange that the people who want to disallow mosques in the U.S. are also people who strongly support the war in Afghanistan, where the goal - according to General Petraeus - is to "win hearts and minds." Do we really want a clash of civilizations. There are over a billion Moslems in the world.

Every single member of Congress should support the right to build this NYC community center. It is un-American not to do so.

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August 24, 2010 11:18 AM    in reply to LJG

you want consistancy from right wingers??

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August 24, 2010 2:44 PM    in reply to LJG

"There is nothing radical about Rauf saying Iran's last election was legitimate and fair. I was disappointed with results, but Ahmadinejad was ahead in all the polls before the election and also in polls after the election.

You probably think, as Rauf may, that those polls were not rigged as well. Go figure.

I never said Muslim nations don't have the right to adopt Western values.

No one is disallowing Rauf from establishing his mosque where and when he wishes. However, I feel it's important to point out that it is Rauf, himself, who has stated there will be no mosque at Corboda, it goes the the veracity to the person, himself. He is lying. There will be a mosque, by definition, at the Cordoba House project.

ex aniom
davidfarrar

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August 24, 2010 11:33 AM   

Senator Pat Leahy has spoken strongly in favour of the right to build the community centre.

Here's the report from Vermont Public Radio: http://www.vpr.net/news_detail/88679/

" Vermont Senator Patrick Leahy is defending the right of a Muslim-American group to establish a community center in lower Manhattan.

Leahy said the controversy was unfortunate since the country was founded on religious freedom.

(Leahy) "It may be popular to jump on this, but it should never be popular to have our First Amendment freedom of religion apply to some religions and not others. That's not the American way."

(Host) Leahy's Republican opponent, Len Britton, has criticized what has been called the Ground Zero mosque. The Islamic community center is actually two and a half blocks away from the site of the 9-11 terrorist attack.

Leahy pointed out that for years there has been a mosque very close to the site where the Pentagon was attacked on 9-11."

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August 24, 2010 4:15 PM   

One of my senators and a distant cousin on the list - I feel better.

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August 24, 2010 11:52 PM   

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EdA

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August 25, 2010 11:25 PM   

Of course, some people -- the kin of actual victims of the 9/11 terrorists -- do have strong valid personal sentiments as to the cultural center. But for the most part, the opposition has been led by demagogic Republican scum who claim to adore "traditional American values" but who in reality spit on the express sentiments of a public proclamation by the Father of Our Country:

The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people, that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection, should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.

With respect to Cong. Eric "C'mon" Cantor, it is worth noting that he and 150 other Republican congresspeople found Ground Zero so "hallowed" that they killed legislation to provide better health benefits for survivors of the mass murder and for the first responders and others who became sickened and even died in clean-up.

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